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Bill H2DB

Coconuts in Ormond By The Sea ( north Volusia County Fla )

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Bill H2DB

I discovered this group Of coconut palms in Ormond By The Sea during this weekend !!

O.B.t.Sea  is an unincorporated area on the North peninsula adjacent to Ormond Beach , which itself is that northern 

portion of the Daytona Beach general area . They are about 500' from the Beach , and face South , but are wind exposed .

  They seem to be transplants added gradually since about 2014 , using Google Maps . I could not access the owner .  Fun until the next Big One !!

 

38158372726_2075ce149e_b.jpgSandra Coco A 11-5-17 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

38214382301_d1d7e8ef51_b.jpgSandra Coco B 11-5-17 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

38182274452_cbffb23723_b.jpgSandra Coco C 11-5-17 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

38182273462_f5bbc309a8_b.jpgSandra Coco D 11-5-17 by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

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Kekoanui

Keep pushing the zone!  A recent post discovered mature royals palms growing along the St.Johns river in JAX!

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RedRabbit

Thanks for sharing Bill!

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Nice looking, especially for that far north!  The one up by the house looks especially good, and that is about the maximum size we could expect a tall variety to grow where I live in Corpus Christi between bad winters here, but in the Rio Grande Valley, there are some Mexican Talls even taller than this Jamaican Tall in the photo.  All of these in the photos appear to be healthy Jamaican Talls,  Thanks for posting them and keep us updated on their status.

John

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Bill H2DB

  Well.......  I spoke with the owner yesterday afternoon .

He is a landscaper , who relocated to Ormond / Daytona about 5 yrs ago, from Hollywood Fla .  He basically knows that it is colder

up her in NE Fla , but since we are currently in a warmer winter run , hasn't quite got the total feel for it yet.   Time will take care of that .

BUT !! , it turns out that he is doing the landscaping at the old DENT SMITH estate in Daytona Beach ! 

  That is where the original Palm Society came to be .

That place has been acquired in the past few years , after the passing of Mrs Smith . He had some basic info as to the history of the 

place , but not details.   I recommended that he use the ' net to look up the IPS etc , and I think that he will .

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Reeverse

The old Dent Smith property has a newer Chamberyonia that's huge. I tried to get a pic a couple weeks ago with it's nice new red leaf. It's a nice one ! And survived Irma 

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Dave-Vero

Florida's had a run of warm weather since 2011.  Vero Beach went from losing lots of coconuts in 2010-11 to having lots of flourishing ones.  They grow fast.

 

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DCA_Palm_Fan

Awesome!   Heres hoping we don't have another cold winter anytime soon! 

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kinzyjr

If this year is a rough one, it will be interesting to see how they fare.

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Mr. Coconut Palm

Any updates on these beautiful Coconut Palms?

John

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Bill H2DB

   Well , here is the update.......

I only took 2 pics . The large palm near the house is fried just as much. The people were not home at this time .

The beachside , close to the Beach itself , has very little protection from the winds , and this area has a sea of scrub and 

Serenoa's , in a dry , windswept  mini ecosystem .  The wind flow during the recent freeze was NNW , and so little help from the 

ocean this time  .  This home is very close to    SR  AIA , the roadway that runs immediately along the Beach , on the dunes .

   On the western side of the " peninsula " , aka Barrier Island , the conditions are a lot different .   There , it is less windswept normally , and

is not as dried out , supporting a nice canopy , and is lush by comparison to the beach-ward eastern side .  The western side may have benefitted 

from the NNW wind flow this time , as the wind would have been coming across the Intracoastal Waterway .

 

42087801702_2404c46580_b.jpgSandra Cocos 5-13-18 a by Bill H, on Flickr

 

27263490487_f6b20daf81_b.jpgSandra Cocos 5-13-18 b by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

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Walt

Just for the heck of it I checked this area out on Google street view, and on my fourth click (just moving around) I found these coconuts slightly farther north.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.3404804,-81.0645139,3a,90y,359.7h,99.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sayt75IS86o9wUCy00Gl6RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I found the ones you posted (June 2016 Google): https://www.google.com/maps/@29.3404796,-81.0646162,3a,75y,26.62h,91.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM-eHOCu-fluHQpBfTn2qwQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

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Bill H2DB

  Well.....here it is , August 12 , with about  5/7th of the good growing time gone by , in this Summer .

  So here are pics taken this morning.  These palm are receiving good care , as the owner is a landscaper.

   One dead , others in varying condition . Note a Dypsis decaryii in the one pic . Most of those around town were 

damaged , but in good recovery . A bottle Palm also can be seen .

  The Cocos will not regain real strength this year , IMHO , and I doubt that they will make it thru the next Winter .

 

29061407647_3df22f41e5_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018a by Bill H, on Flickr

 

43092878675_15dd7169a6_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018b by Bill H, on Flickr

 

43092934375_26e90cfa94_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018c copy by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

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Reeverse

I lost all of mine after that winter. So many better choices for this area. They are almost like annuals. 

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pj_orlando_z9b
4 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

  Well.....here it is , August 12 , with about  5/7th of the good growing time gone by , in this Summer .

  So here are pics taken this morning.  These palm are receiving good care , as the owner is a landscaper.

   One dead , others in varying condition . Note a Dypsis decaryii in the one pic . Most of those around town were 

damaged , but in good recovery . A bottle Palm also can be seen .

  The Cocos will not regain real strength this year , IMHO , and I doubt that they will make it thru the next Winter .

 

29061407647_3df22f41e5_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018a by Bill H, on Flickr

 

43092878675_15dd7169a6_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018b by Bill H, on Flickr

 

43092934375_26e90cfa94_b.jpgSandra Cocos Aug 2018c copy by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

I know it is a long shot but I like to believe some of them can make it with a lot of TLC. Mine is recovering well but will definitely need a good winter to finish off the new crown next year. 

20180810_183355.jpg

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Walt

About 15 years ago I lost a golden Malayan. It was freeze damage but survived for about 2 years after that. The palm never grew normally after the freeze. It struggled for months just to put out a full frond. I've had other species of zone 10+ palms that were freeze damage, survived, but just languished for a year or two, then croaked.

I will have to check my old photos, but the first coconut palm I ever saw in Highlands County, 20 years ago, was severely cold damaged in 2010. A year later it still looked bad, but it did finally recover. I haven't checked on it in years. If I can find the photos (so many are disorganized) I will post them, showing before and after the freeze, and then full recovery.

But until I can find and post photos, here's a Google street view from June 2011, six months after the horridly cold December of 2010 we had. I actually recorded 19.8 degrees in a field area of my property, and 20.7 degrees in my front yard. That was an all-time low for me, the second all-time low was on January 5, 2001, when I recorded 22 degrees.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3847063,-81.330027,3a,75y,1.94h,102.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sijAsxTF17Z1brUPRQFR-yQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Again, this palm survived, so those above may stand a chance, if they don't see back to back severe winters.

100_5918.jpg

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Bill H2DB

  An important factor here in the Daytona Beach area , is that in the Winter , after about Thanksgiving , the

ocean temps begin to fall ( depending on the year , of course ) , and by New Years on, can be in the low to mid 50's , fluctuating with 

wind direction changes .  I have seen the Ocean temp in the high 40's in several years .

   So , when we get a standard variety Cold Front , the wind , after a day or so , swings around to the N-NE , and that retards the Daytime 

temperature on the Beachside , and 1/2 way out to I-95 , quite bit .   In fact at the Daytona Airport ,( the official station ) , daytime afternoon 

temps are often 20 dg +/-  warmer than the water affected areas .  That can go on for days at time .

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hollyhillbill289/

 

24490663765_65b9b63752_b.jpgDaytona January by Bill H, on Flickr

 

 

 

Scroll through , there 's charts .

   I think that when a Cocos is badly damaged as these are , the day after day in the 50's prevents strong recovery .

I have lived here since 1952 , and the recent string of relatively good Winters has allowed a few survivors . The ones in Ormond

on Sandra,  were just brought here from S. Fla 2 yrs ago . Many others over the years have been trucked in , but no long term i.e. 5 year

survivors are likely .  Last winters freeze was a Garden variety event here overall .   I've published various Monthly Hi/Lo , averages , records

etc from the NWS on the Forum , and they are on my Flickr site as well .  This is not a conducive to Cocos area , unless as a disposable .

I am currently torturing another of my own .  It is about the 8th or so , from the years .

Royals can go relatively long term here .

 All of this is  Unless we have reached the " Tipping Point"..... as in GW....................

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Bazza

I'm just south of you in NSB and have been in Florida since 1970 and at my current location since '96 so have seen some real freeze carnage here!

We lost ALL our Coconuts here after the 3 freeze winters ('08-'10) and everything was OK until last winter, of course. I think we had some upper 20's here last winter, even on the barrier island.  I'm hoping we go for a few more winters before we get another nasty one.

That said, I planted 3 nice Coconuts here at my place last year and one at a customers. They were 30 gal/12' height and very healthy. Every one took a hit but are recovering except for one that I ended up replacing.

This is one of them pic taken last year before the winter freezes hit.....

DSC00234.thumb.JPG.288bceaac9efc18a4761e

So here's the BIG point I wanted to make........

The one thing that I have come to believe is how important it is to get on a fungicide program right after any freeze damage. In my opinion, a lot of these palms can be saved, if hit with a fungicide properly dispensed and timed right. That's what I will be doing going forward.

And of course it's not just Coconuts...it's Adonidias, Foxtails, Arecas, etc, etc......

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Walt

In my earlier post I stated how the first coconut palm I ever saw in Highlands County was this one shown below. I first saw this palm 20 years ago. I've seen it cold damaged many times. In fact, I have a photo of it somewhere, showing how it was totally toasted from a severe radiational freeze January 5, 2001.

But as I stated in an above posting, this palm was severely cold damaged in December 2010, when I recorded 11 straight nights below 40 degrees F, and six of those being below 30 degrees, and three of those nights below 25 degrees!  What the coconut palm saw, I can't say. I do think it saw warmer temperatures than at my property. Still, the palm was severely cold damaged.

The first photo is a Google street view taken in June of 2011, six months after the severe freezing. You can see the palm has made very little recovery.

In my second photo, is one I took on April 15, 2013, proving this palm recovered. I don't think I've taken a photo of this palm since then. I'm going to make a point to re visit that palm soon to see how it's doing.

Fish Camp coconut May 2011.png

Recovering coconut palm.JPG

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pj_orlando_z9b
4 hours ago, Bazza said:

I'm just south of you in NSB and have been in Florida since 1970 and at my current location since '96 so have seen some real freeze carnage here!

We lost ALL our Coconuts here after the 3 freeze winters ('08-'10) and everything was OK until last winter, of course. I think we had some upper 20's here last winter, even on the barrier island.  I'm hoping we go for a few more winters before we get another nasty one.

That said, I planted 3 nice Coconuts here at my place last year and one at a customers. They were 30 gal/12' height and very healthy. Every one took a hit but are recovering except for one that I ended up replacing.

This is one of them pic taken last year before the winter freezes hit.....

DSC00234.thumb.JPG.288bceaac9efc18a4761e

So here's the BIG point I wanted to make........

The one thing that I have come to believe is how important it is to get on a fungicide program right after any freeze damage. In my opinion, a lot of these palms can be saved, if hit with a fungicide properly dispensed and timed right. That's what I will be doing going forward.

And of course it's not just Coconuts...it's Adonidias, Foxtails, Arecas, etc, etc......

I agree. The freeze hit mid January and I did not treat either my coconut or recently planted foxtail (9 months in ground) with copper fungicide until April when I noticed the heavy fungal damage. I started a rigorous application and both survived. I was lucky but also lost a good month or so of growing. This winter was also tricky because of Irma damage. Both palms were tattered and lost several healthy fronds which added extra stress. 

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Bazza
22 hours ago, Walt said:

In my earlier post I stated how the first coconut palm I ever saw in Highlands County was this one shown below. I first saw this palm 20 years ago. I've seen it cold damaged many times. In fact, I have a photo of it somewhere, showing how it was totally toasted from a severe radiational freeze January 5, 2001.

But as I stated in an above posting, this palm was severely cold damaged in December 2010, when I recorded 11 straight nights below 40 degrees F, and six of those being below 30 degrees, and three of those nights below 25 degrees!  What the coconut palm saw, I can't say. I do think it saw warmer temperatures than at my property. Still, the palm was severely cold damaged.

The first photo is a Google street view taken in June of 2011, six months after the severe freezing. You can see the palm has made very little recovery.

In my second photo, is one I took on April 15, 2013, proving this palm recovered. I don't think I've taken a photo of this palm since then. I'm going to make a point to re visit that palm soon to see how it's doing.

Fish Camp coconut May 2011.png

Recovering coconut palm.JPG

The Coconut survived....can't say the same though for the 'Torulosa'! :bemused:

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Walt

As long as you protect the trunk and meristem of your coconut palms (like I do with my 15 year-old coconut palm), you should be able to grow them indefinitely. Won't need fungicides and/or peroxide either. I use thermostatically controlled heating cables with heavy insulation. My palm's trunk and meristem never see below 50 degrees -- even if it's in the 20s.

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GottmitAlex
1 hour ago, Walt said:

As long as you protect the trunk and meristem of your coconut palms (like I do with my 15 year-old coconut palm), you should be able to grow them indefinitely. Won't need fungicides and/or peroxide either. I use thermostatically controlled heating cables with heavy insulation. My palm's trunk and meristem never see below 50 degrees -- even if it's in the 20s.

^^ This ^^

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Walt
On 8/13/2018, 9:19:52, Walt said:

In my earlier post I stated how the first coconut palm I ever saw in Highlands County was this one shown below. I first saw this palm 20 years ago. I've seen it cold damaged many times. In fact, I have a photo of it somewhere, showing how it was totally toasted from a severe radiational freeze January 5, 2001.

But as I stated in an above posting, this palm was severely cold damaged in December 2010, when I recorded 11 straight nights below 40 degrees F, and six of those being below 30 degrees, and three of those nights below 25 degrees!  What the coconut palm saw, I can't say. I do think it saw warmer temperatures than at my property. Still, the palm was severely cold damaged.

The first photo is a Google street view taken in June of 2011, six months after the severe freezing. You can see the palm has made very little recovery.

In my second photo, is one I took on April 15, 2013, proving this palm recovered. I don't think I've taken a photo of this palm since then. I'm going to make a point to re visit that palm soon to see how it's doing.

Fish Camp coconut May 2011.png

Recovering coconut palm.JPG

I found the old photo I took in January of 2001 of the above coconut palm. This palm was toasted on the morning of January 5, 2001, the coldest radiational freeze I had experienced since moving to Highlands County in 1997. Archbold Biological Station (8 miles south of the town of Lake Placid, Florida) tied its all-time coldest record of 13 degrees. There was even a newspaper article about how cold it gets at ABS, and some meteorologist out of Ruskin, Florida, said one factor was the soil there, that it gives up its heat much faster than other soils in the county on radiational cooling nights. I recorded 22 degrees that morning in my open yard. I drove up the hill into town, and the big travelers palm wasn't hurt at all, yet my big white bird of paradise was totally defoliated.  

coconut palm at fish camp.jpg

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Bill H2DB
On 8/14/2018, 8:17:14, Walt said:

As long as you protect the trunk and meristem of your coconut palms (like I do with my 15 year-old coconut palm), you should be able to grow them indefinitely. Won't need fungicides and/or peroxide either. I use thermostatically controlled heating cables with heavy insulation. My palm's trunk and meristem never see below 50 degrees -- even if it's in the 20s.

   It should be noted that during the 1985 Freeze , a monumental event for sure , many areas had Power failures .

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kinzyjr
30 minutes ago, Bill H2DB said:

   It should be noted that during the 1985 Freeze , a monumental event for sure , many areas had Power failures .

Consecutive 20F (record low) nights vs. Coconut with fronds tied up and covered with a blanket...  I'm guessing they would live, but I hope I never have to find out for sure.

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Walt
4 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

   It should be noted that during the 1985 Freeze , a monumental event for sure , many areas had Power failures .

That is true. I once lost power during a freeze; fortunately I have a portable (on wheels) back up gasoline generator to plug all my extension chords into.

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EnternalOptimist

These trees are fruiting regularly.  There are several others in Ormond but the Sea, which has a microclimate due to the Tomoka basin being five miles wide to the northwest, keeping cold winds at bay!

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RedRabbit
3 hours ago, EnternalOptimist said:

These trees are fruiting regularly.  There are several others in Ormond but the Sea, which has a microclimate due to the Tomoka basin being five miles wide to the northwest, keeping cold winds at bay!

Are there any older coconuts up there?

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