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GottmitAlex

Coconut palms 1 year anniversary in the ground San Diego/Tijuana region

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Walt
17 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Thanks very much mate, appreciate you doing that, I now know what to be on the lookout for. Cheers! 

You are welcome.

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GottmitAlex

Eager for that spear to open up.

Holy Friday.  Let's hope on Easter week it shows its colors.

 

 

20190419_171124.jpg

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Rickybobby

What’s typical humidity like for you ?

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GottmitAlex

Very dry days. High humidity at dawn though.

I'm 14 miles inland. 

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GottmitAlex
8 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

What’s typical humidity like for you ?

Dont want to put a too fine point, but I tend to repeat myself. In our latitude and our region, the coastal areas are often ore foggy, cloudy, much more humid than the inland areas and are usually 5-15f cooler than inland. 

Guess I got lucky with this accidental purchase that started this endeavor 14m inland.  They're growing. 

Yes once the sun comes up, adios humidity. But there is sunshine. In the coastal areas, it's usually the other way around. Yes, there are many days with sunshine on the coast, however, no comparison with the inland sunshine.

 

In my limited research, I have noticed coconuts need this in this order to survive:

1 Heat

2 Sun

3 Humidity.  

It appears they can survive with the first 2. Time will tell.

 

I forgot to mention, they love salt.

Edited by GottmitAlex
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sandgroper
17 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Dont want to put a too fine point, but I tend to repeat myself. In our latitude and our region, the coastal areas are often ore foggy, cloudy, much more humid than the inland areas and are usually 5-15f cooler than inland. 

Guess I got lucky with this accidental purchase that started this endeavor 14m inland.  They're growing. 

Yes once the sun comes up, adios humidity. But there is sunshine. In the coastal areas, it's usually the other way around. Yes, there are many days with sunshine on the coast, however, no comparison with the inland sunshine.

 

In my limited research, I have noticed coconuts need this in this order to survive:

1 Heat

2 Sun

3 Humidity.  

It appears they can survive with the first 2. Time will tell.

 

I forgot to mention, they love salt.

I agree with you mate, I think humidity is the least to worry about, I think heat and sunshine are much more important. We generally have very low humidity where I am and can have temperatures 40c and above quite often and I've never noticed any ill effects on my coconut.

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palmsOrl

Yeah I think as long as a coconut is able to take up enough water from the roots to be healthy, it does just fine in low humidity.  There are many examples of coconuts doing well in tropical desert areas that are well irrigated.

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Walt
On 4/19/2019 at 8:10 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Eager for that spear to open up.

Holy Friday.  Let's hope on Easter week it shows its colors.

 

 

20190419_171124.jpg

That's a strong looking spear there. It should look great when fully open.

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GottmitAlex

All I want to say is how incredible a slender, thin spear can house such enormous leaflets. Thank God.

 

20190426_162903.jpg

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enigma99
1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

All I want to say is how incredible a slender, thin spear can house such enormous leaflets. Thank God.

 

20190426_162903.jpg

Looking good! Made it through the cool winter. Can't wait to see these in a few years!

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GottmitAlex

4/29/3018 At 11:37pm PST. With my highs and lows for the day along with the RH as well. Before it resets.

 

 

20190429_233854.jpg

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sandgroper

That'll kerp them happy Alex.

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Walt
On 4/19/2019 at 6:43 PM, sandgroper said:

Thanks very much mate, appreciate you doing that, I now know what to be on the lookout for. Cheers! 

The oldest spathe opened up, I guess last night.  The pesky squirrels must have already been into the flowers as I saw three stems lying on the ground.

Coconut_flowers_5-8-19.jpg

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GottmitAlex
2 hours ago, Walt said:

The oldest spathe opened up, I guess last night.  The pesky squirrels must have already been into the flowers as I saw three stems lying on the ground.

Coconut_flowers_5-8-19.jpg

Awesome, Walt!

Walt, can you explain which are male and which are female?

Thank you.

 

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Walt
12 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Awesome, Walt!

Walt, can you explain which are male and which are female?

Thank you.

 

Sorry, I'm ignorant in that respect. I just know coconuts are monoecious. What flower is male and what is female, I have no idea. I've never really closely inspected the flowers. My main interest is having a thriving coconut palm that produces edible nuts. For reasons unknown to me, my coconut didn't put out one single spathe last year. I remember the first time my palm put out some spathes, flowered, and produced some small nuts (before they all aborted) -- the palm then went about 5 years before it again developed spathes and then started producing coconuts ever year. Why it took a year break in fruit production is beyond me, especially after having relatively mild winters for the past four winters.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
18 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Awesome, Walt!

Walt, can you explain which are male and which are female?

Thank you.

 

Alex, 

Walt's palm is a Green Malayan Dwarf, and all the Malayan Dwarfs, the Green, the Golden, and the Yellow Malayan are self pollinating.  It is usually the Tall varieties that are not self pollinating and need to be cross pollinated with a nearby Coconut Palm, however, I think Keith (Zeeth) on here said a while back, that even some of the Talls can be self pollinating too.

John

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GottmitAlex
2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Alex, 

Walt's palm is a Green Malayan Dwarf, and all the Malayan Dwarfs, the Green, the Golden, and the Yellow Malayan are self pollinating.  It is usually the Tall varieties that are not self pollinating and need to be cross pollinated with a nearby Coconut Palm, however, I think Keith (Zeeth) on here said a while back, that even some of the Talls can be self pollinating too.

John

Thanks John.

I read that as well. Even read the Fiji dwarf is not self pollinating due to timings. I believe the Male seed does before the flower comes out or vice versa.

My interest to see the difference between the Male and female parts of the inflorecence of a coconut. 

 

Alex 

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GottmitAlex

Well, the spear is beginning to open up.

:greenthumb:

15574312899221249199839279548102.jpg

15574313324752959602505590387943.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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Mr. Coconut Palm
On 5/9/2019 at 2:44 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Thanks John.

I read that as well. Even read the Fiji dwarf is not self pollinating due to timings. I believe the Male seed does before the flower comes out or vice versa.

My interest to see the difference between the Male and female parts of the inflorecence of a coconut. 

 

Alex 

Hey Alex,

You are welcome.  By the way, how tall is the tallest one of your Coconut Palms now, and how fat is the base of its trunk.  Also, how long has it been in the ground?

John

 

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GottmitAlex
2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Alex,

You are welcome.  By the way, how tall is the tallest one of your Coconut Palms now, and how fat is the base of its trunk.  Also, how long has it been in the ground?

John

 

Hi John. Golden malayan dwarf was planted August 2016 (1 leaf seedling back then).  So we're coming up on three years. 

From the soil to the tip of its tallest spear, it's 10ft tall. 

Its width at the base is 6.5" diameter.

I have also attached the photo when I received the coco back in late July 2016.

It came in a very small USPS box. The stem, as you can see was folded to fit in the box. Box was what? The flat priority 1ft x 6". A very small coco.

arrived.thumb.jpg.dae5db3d2a7e065b2340e1c8277a116d.jpg

 

Alex

Edited to add: Sun is coming out again.

And that tip of the second spear is only a 2ft from the tip of the tallest. 

Very cool.

 

 

 

20190510_161002.jpg

15575305000024908089830272378002.jpg

20190510_164329.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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Cluster

Hello Alex,

It is nice to see your coconut is doing very nicely, it is enjoying the conditions you are giving it.

Regarding flowers and pollination this is what I know (disclaimer no personal experience, bookworm for coconuts:D ):

First of all which flowers are male and female, from the internet:

CoconutFlrs500Lab.jpg

 

The female are the big spherical ones that resemble a small coco.

Regarding self pollination, it can occur when the female flower is receptive and the male flower is also available to pollinate it. This can happen in two ways:

1-It can happen in the same spadix (inflorescence) - intra-spadix pollination. It is very common among dwarfs and not very much so with the talls and perhaps compact dwarfs (Fiji Dwarf) as their female flower is usually not receptive when there are male flowers available in the same spadix to pollinate, unlike dwarfs which have a big overlap.

2- It can happen between two spadix within the same coconut - inter-spadix pollination. It is said to occur mostly in talls (or compact dwarf) to an extent. 

 

The reason why talls etc are said to be cross pollinating, is because they primarily breed like that. It does not mean they can't self pollinate, however there are probably very few days for inter-spadix pollination to happen, so it won't be a very high % of their fruits. You can however keep the male pollen and wait for the female flowers to be receptive to hand pollinate, something like this:

Coconut_7.jpg

 

 

Regards,

 

Pedro

 

 

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sandgroper

Thats really interesting. I wonder how long the male pollen would remain viable if kept to hand pollinate and in what conditions it would need to be kept? 

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GottmitAlex

Thank you very much for this information Pedro. I always thought to myself the female flowers were tiny unpollinated cocos. However, I didnt know how the staminate flowers looked like nor how the female flower was pollinated. 

Quite the education.

Thanks again

Alex

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Cluster

Glad I could help.

I am not really sure how long male flowers can last, but if I had to guess I think it is safe to say they will be viable for the following spadix. I recall I saw an Indian youtube video once, where they took the male flowers, put it in the oven at 50 or 35 c (probably to release the pollen fast, can't remember the details?) and then mixed the pollen with water. When the female flowers were ready they pollinated them by spraying the water that was mixed with pollen.

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sandgroper

That's great info, thanks so much for posting it.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On 5/10/2019 at 6:18 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Hi John. Golden malayan dwarf was planted August 2016 (1 leaf seedling back then).  So we're coming up on three years. 

From the soil to the tip of its tallest spear, it's 10ft tall. 

Its width at the base is 6.5" diameter.

I have also attached the photo when I received the coco back in late July 2016.

It came in a very small USPS box. The stem, as you can see was folded to fit in the box. Box was what? The flat priority 1ft x 6". A very small coco.

arrived.thumb.jpg.dae5db3d2a7e065b2340e1c8277a116d.jpg

 

Alex

Edited to add: Sun is coming out again.

And that tip of the second spear is only a 2ft from the tip of the tallest. 

Very cool.

 

 

 

20190510_161002.jpg

15575305000024908089830272378002.jpg

20190510_164329.jpg

Hey Alex

So, the one you posted photos of the other day is your biggest one.  I guess I should have paid more attention to your post the other day.  I didn't realize your Golden Malayan Dwarf was your biggest.  I thought you had a Jamaican Tall or Panama Tall that was bigger.  My mistake.  I am surprised that your Golden Malayan recovered as well as it did from the way it was shipped with its leaves broken over like that in such a small box.  Where did you get all of your Coconut Palms from?

John

P.S.  My big Green Malayan Dwarf that is planted up by my house has 21" of woody trunk, but is only 9" or slightly over width at the base of the trunk.  It was a neglected palm at the local nursery I bought it from 3 years ago, already producing woody trunk, but it looked really dry and the top of the trunk was penciling pretty bad, but I have been able to nurse it back to good health with the ALL ORGANIC MicroLife  Ultimate 8-4-6 Fertilizer that I use on it and all my palms and plants.  It has over 70 minerals and micronutrients, so it covers the full spectrum of any micronutrients a plant needs.  I also have what I think is a Mexican Tall, sprouted from a nut I collected off the beach 3 years ago that is 7ft. tall, with about 6" of diameter at the base of it, and a Maymex Hybrid cross between a Golden Malayan Dwarf and Mexican Tall, that I also collected off the beach at Padre Island 3 years ago that is about 7.5ft. tall, with about 6.5" of trunk diameter at its base.  It has really nice big robust leaves on it.  My wife and I planted these two the end of March, and I will try to get some photos of them tomorrow and post in a new thread on here if the sun comes out.  We have had 4.7" of rain since early yesterday morning.

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Tropicdoc

Mr coconut palm,

You have posted several times singing the praises of the microlife fertilizer. Where can I get it?!

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GottmitAlex
On 5/11/2019 at 5:13 PM, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Alex

So, the one you posted photos of the other day is your biggest one.  I guess I should have paid more attention to your post the other day.  I didn't realize your Golden Malayan Dwarf was your biggest.  I thought you had a Jamaican Tall or Panama Tall that was bigger.  My mistake.  I am surprised that your Golden Malayan recovered as well as it did from the way it was shipped with its leaves broken over like that in such a small box.  Where did you get all of your Coconut Palms from?

John

P.S.  My big Green Malayan Dwarf that is planted up by my house has 21" of woody trunk, but is only 9" or slightly over width at the base of the trunk.  It was a neglected palm at the local nursery I bought it from 3 years ago, already producing woody trunk, but it looked really dry and the top of the trunk was penciling pretty bad, but I have been able to nurse it back to good health with the ALL ORGANIC MicroLife  Ultimate 8-4-6 Fertilizer that I use on it and all my palms and plants.  It has over 70 minerals and micronutrients, so it covers the full spectrum of any micronutrients a plant needs.  I also have what I think is a Mexican Tall, sprouted from a nut I collected off the beach 3 years ago that is 7ft. tall, with about 6" of diameter at the base of it, and a Maymex Hybrid cross between a Golden Malayan Dwarf and Mexican Tall, that I also collected off the beach at Padre Island 3 years ago that is about 7.5ft. tall, with about 6.5" of trunk diameter at its base.  It has really nice big robust leaves on it.  My wife and I planted these two the end of March, and I will try to get some photos of them tomorrow and post in a new thread on here if the sun comes out.  We have had 4.7" of rain since early yesterday morning.

John, I did have a Jamaican tall seedling which did not make it. That is possibly the misunderstanding. 

I purchased the golden coco through Ebsy in 2016. I like to document everything.  Little did I know Ebay only has a purchase/sell history of 2 years. I can only go back to 2017 for records. Had I known this I would have taken a screenshot back in 2016 of the transaction. All I remember today is: it's a "yellow dwarf" from "Flahrida. "  had I "read" prior to purchasing that Coconut palms do not grow in our region, I would not have clicked on the "buy it now" button.  Thank God I didn't. It was during transit when I began to read about c. Nucifera habitat and their growing conditions.. well, that for me made it a challenge. 

They're growing.

Alex

 

Edited by GottmitAlex
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GottmitAlex
6 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Mr coconut palm,

You have posted several times singing the praises of the microlife fertilizer. Where can I get it?!

Hear, hear!

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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

John, I did have a Jamaican tall seedling which did not make it. That is possibly the misunderstanding. 

I purchased the golden coco through Ebsy in 2016. I like to document everything.  Little did I know Ebay only has a purchase/sell history of 2 years. I can only go back to 2017 for records. Had I known this I would have taken a screenshot back in 2016 of the transaction. All I remember today is: it's a "yellow dwarf" from "Flahrida. "  had I "read" prior to purchasing that Coconut palms do not grow in our region, I would not have clicked on the "buy it now" button.  Thank God I didn't. It was during transit when I began to read about c. Nucifera habitat and their growing conditions.. well, that for me made it a challenge. 

They're growing.

Alex

 

Oh okay, Alex.  I too have had a couple of young Jamaican Talls die on me.  I was going to give up on them, but since I have read about the really cold hardy ones at Kopsick in St. Petersburg, Forida, it makes me want to try again with some sprouts specifically from those trees there.  I found out I think from Keith here (Zeeth) that Jamaican Talls DO NOT like their roots disturbed when they are young, so I am thinking that might be why my two died.  One was about 3ft. tall when I transplanted it from the pot to the yard, and the other one was only about 4ft. tall when I transplanted it from its pot to the yard.  So, I decided if I get any more, I will wait till they are about 7.5ft. to 8ft. tall in overall height before I try planting them in the ground.  Hopefully, their roots will be strong enough and fully developed by then for them to survive the transplant shock.  All the other young Coconut Palm varieties I have transplanted, especially the Malayan Dwarfs and the one Maypan I have had recovered from transplanting almost immediately and resumed growing quickly.  The only problem with all of them was that they were too young when I planted them to make it through the following winter, and a couple of those winters were chilly and damp for extended periods of time, so I have decided that from now on any variety that I plant here in Corpus Christi will have to be about 7ft. to 8ft. tall or a little taller before I put them in the ground, as once they are this size, I think they have a reasonably good chance of making through at least our average to mild winters here.  And of course, I won't plant any after about the first part of June, preferable only between March and May in order to give them the most time possible to get well established before the following winter.

John

P.S.  What is weird is how it is the Tall varieties that typically grow naturally along tropical beaches, yet most of the tall variety sprouts I have had had either no roots at all or very short ones just barely emerging from the bottom of the husks, so how can they get established on a new beach when they wash up if they don't develop a rapid root system to hold them in place before the next really high tide or storm surge from heavy thunderstorm of tropical storms washes the young palm back out to sea???  And ironically, it is the Malayan Dwarf sprouts that I get from beach nuts that wash up here from the Mexican coast that have quite a root system as long as foot to a foot and a half long when the sprout on top of the nut is just barely breaking through the top of the husk!  I used to pot up all the nuts that I collect off the beach that I thought were viable, but this was costing me too much time and money with the ingredients for the organic potting soil that I make myself just to only have a few sprout, so then I started laying out the nuts in the yard and just keeping them watered every 2 to 3 days in the spring and summer when it's not raining and waiting for them to sprout.  Then the ones that would sprout, I would only pot them up,  and that is how I figured out that the Malayan Dwarf sprouts have such an extensive root system going down into the ground, whereas their part of the sprout coming up through the top of the husk where the leaves start emerging  may only be 1/2 of an inch tall!  I have had Tall variety nuts shipped to me that have 1 or two full leaves emerged from the top of the husk, but little or no roots at all coming out of the bottom of the husk, which makes me wonder how in the world do they establish themselves on tropical beaches before a large wave or unusually high tide washes them back out to sea???

 

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palmsOrl

I started buying Jamaican tall Cocos in 2003 from eBay and at least one other source.  They always quickly declined and I indeed suspected it was the roots.  Since 2014, I started repotting these in at least 2/3 sand (just play sand) and I haven’t lost a single one shortly after potting since.

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GottmitAlex
3 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I started buying Jamaican tall Cocos in 2003 from eBay and at least one other source.  They always quickly declined and I indeed suspected it was the roots.  Since 2014, I started repotting these in at least 2/3 sand (just play sand) and I haven’t lost a single one shortly after potting since.

Nice. That is what I did with all the places in the narrow garden sliver where I planted the cocos: replaced the original dirt/landfill with coarse sand.  3x3x3ft

 

 

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GottmitAlex

Come 30th of August (3 years in the making), are you folks in for a treat.

Gott mit uns,

Alex

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kinzyjr

I lost a Jamaican Tall due to root disturbance even though the plant was in the ground and ~6ft. tall.  One of the pool lines was clogged and I had to dig in the area to clear the line.  Apparently, I nicked a root and the entire plant immediately went into decline and died shortly after.  I lost another one that was shipped bare root, but I used my standard 50/50 potting soil/perlite mix.  If I ever do the bare root thing again, I'll use more sand like @palmsOrl and others.  Jamaican Tall seem to be one of those palms that you have to place and then forget. 

My current collection includes two on the south side of the house that I planted as 3 gal. palms ~3-4 ft. high in 2017.  These were bought at a plant sale and planted directly into the ground.  I didn't have an issue with transplant shock at all.  I did put some shade cloth around them to give them some time to adjust to full sun.  One thing that I might have done differently than @Mr. Coconut Palm is that if the pot had any trouble coming off, I sliced it very carefully on opposite sides and removed it from the root ball

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GottmitAlex

An afternoon meditation by the palms.

Gave 'em a good soak @86F/30C.  They're calling for a temperature dip for tomorrow and yonder. (Below yearly averages). Guess we're getting an early fall this year.

 

 

20190906_174717.jpg

20190906_174654.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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palmsOrl

Looking amazing as always Alex.  Don't worry about the cool down, just keep them fertilized well and watered thoroughly when mild/warm/hot and they should do fine, especially with your methods of protection and creating the most favorable winter microclimate possible.  I would certainly make sure to keep the soil moist even in the winter, making sure to not water the above ground portions of the palms.

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GottmitAlex
7 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

Looking amazing as always Alex.  Don't worry about the cool down, just keep them fertilized well and watered thoroughly when mild/warm/hot and they should do fine, especially with your methods of protection and creating the most favorable winter microclimate possible.  I would certainly make sure to keep the soil moist even in the winter, making sure to not water the above ground portions of the palms.

Thanks Mike. Will do!

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GottmitAlex

Mid-anniversary update.

April 16, 2020

20200416-114206.jpg
20200416-114155.jpg
20200416-114214.jpg
20200416-114220.jpg

 

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DoomsDave
On 4/20/2019 at 5:08 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Dont want to put a too fine point, but I tend to repeat myself. In our latitude and our region, the coastal areas are often ore foggy, cloudy, much more humid than the inland areas and are usually 5-15f cooler than inland. 

Guess I got lucky with this accidental purchase that started this endeavor 14m inland.  They're growing. 

Yes once the sun comes up, adios humidity. But there is sunshine. In the coastal areas, it's usually the other way around. Yes, there are many days with sunshine on the coast, however, no comparison with the inland sunshine.

 

In my limited research, I have noticed coconuts need this in this order to survive:

1 Heat

2 Sun

3 Humidity.  

It appears they can survive with the first 2. Time will tell.

 

I forgot to mention, they love salt.

I think, based on my limited observations regarding the coconut I rescued, that the big thing is heat. The old guy kept that splendid specimen in his old-guy apartment and it was great.

The only reason I didn't selfishly keep it for myself is I knew I'd never be able to keep it warm enough. Might have to get me a mini-old-guy apartment in the house for that.

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pj_orlando_z9b
9 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Mid-anniversary update.

April 16, 2020

20200416-114206.jpg
20200416-114155.jpg
20200416-114214.jpg
20200416-114220.jpg

 

Looking tropical! Awesome. :D

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      Miroslav

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      By climate change virginia
      Hi is there a hardy alternative to bottle palms that can survive in zone 8a I don't care about the leaves the leaves can be pinnate palmate either one is fine. Thanks. 
    • The7thLegend
      By The7thLegend
      I'm trying to figure out what I have here, 2 young palms but maybe enough features now to narrow it down.  Any ideas?
       
      Seedling #1 - Very lush green, aggressive root system, fast grower, looking like a Phoenix (maybe Canary or long shot rupicola) or I could be way off.
       

       
      Seedling #2 - Green with blue hue, moderate grower that seems to be getting a little faster, originally thought blue minor but it's been growing an above grown trunk.

       
       
       
       
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