Camellia azalea

[Cedric]

Wondered if anyone else was growing this fabulous plant, I couldn't see a thread so decided to start one. 

The tropical Magnolia in electric scarlet.

They grow well as far South as Singapore, enjoying extreme humidity and wet summers with preferably a nice dry cooler season. Wet sub tropics. Thats not say they would naturally grow well everywhere as they are for the most grafted onto C. japonica stock.

I've been growing them for a about ten years, all grafted on Camellia japonica stock. I just love this plant it's a constant joy literally as it flowers all year here. I have seven or eight, some planted in the ground others in pots. 

They are a very phenotypically diverse species for a species with such low numbers of wild plants which makes discovering different forms so interesting. They also have a very very low genetic diversity exactly because not many survive in the wild, more or less just a couple of small populations in a single area. Harvesting branches to graft onto C. japonica is not helping them in the wild either, however they are proving very difficult to grow as cuttings or from seed. 

I can get cuttings to root very easily and well however they just don't grow, they sit with the same set of leaves they had when I took the cuttings and that's it. Eventually the tiny leaf buds senesce instead of swell, then after a about a year or less when the leaves age and drop the cutting dies. Anyone know how to jump start rooted cutting I would love to know, particularly as I want to multiply a truly stunning form. I have taken cuttings for grafting but thats all I can manage. It is itself a graft on a large pole of a C.japonica. However the six or so large branches of it that were grafted (bark grafts) didn't all survive the years as the stock has a large exposed japonica wood section in the middle which the japonica won't heal over or the grafts. At the moment it's just has three thick healthy original grafts out of the six left. Think the problem was the japonica stock must have been very old so not in active growth and the C.azalea grafts not fast enough to cover the wound either. 

I only buy one on one grafts now, those where a single branch of the same size has been grafted onto the stock leaving no exposed wood or stump. A basic clean cleft graft. 

Flower, shape, size and colour vary quite considerably in the species as does leaf form. For me this one I have growing (pictured) is my favourite. It has very large mostly upright flowers of excellent substance that don't open very widely until the very day they drop, in one piece.  They also last a long time, couple of weeks in the full sun, never fading in fact getting more and more intensely coloured to the point you almost can't believe it won't explode, then it throws its arms wide and falls. The leaf is large and glaucous and leathery. I don't see this type in the trade anymore.  Flowers all year.

I also have a tiny leaved one small and bushy, pointed dark dark green leaves which has tiny deep scarlet cup shaped flowers. Another has pale pink flowers, the buds are more or less white till they open, as the flower ages it blushes red. The later has short wide petals, large cup shaped, more like a traditional Camellia, the leaves blunt ended spatular shape. Others have cart wheel shape flowers with narrow petals.  All size and colour scarlet flowers and leaf shape. All unmistakable as Camellia azalea, only once have I seen something so different I considered it some kind of hybrid which would make it quite rare. Still wondering if I should buy it however the species is so attractive I don't really have the incentive. However for horticultural purposes a fertile hybrid could be the ticket to saving the species at least as an ornamental if it could be back crossed until it resembled a good form of the wild plant that was also easily propagated. However it seems more effort is going into trying to make existing Camellia cultivars ever blooming rather than trying to save C. azalea

I've tried soil types, sunshine, shade, fertilisers and additives and the colours don't much change from how it came for me. For me they also prefer full sun with the japonica root and stock in the shade. A dose of potassium sulphate brightens things up a bit but thats about it. In pots I use a peat humus, native soil mix, both acidic, about 2 parts humus (peat compost) to 8 pure soil, the soil is heavy sticky crumbly yellow as it's sub soil. Nice thick mulch of very fine pine bark ontop. I like the pots to last forever so don't use organic material that decomposes too quickly. They get watered when it rains (lots) and get a cool dry season with not much rain at all. The potted plants are in terracotta which breaths, perspires  gets covered in moss and all those good things keeping the roots cool as can be. The larger the pot the better i have found, it doesn't seem to be a plant to be potted on every year in rapidly decomposing peat moss based soilless mixes. In fact when you buy them they are in very fine solid clay soil, which is taken from where they grow wild. This I don't mess with just into the ground or pot as is.

They also do very well in the ground, however choosing a site with good drainage is very important as the japonica roots do not like to be wet all the time, and also one where the tops can get at least half a day sun while the lower section is shaded for most of the day. 

Would love anyone else's growing and propagating observations on Camellia azalea as there is very limited material on them on the web. I would also like to thank nephew for using his 3-G or is that 4-G phone to make the illustration, much obliged. I am determined to cross the border one of these fine days into Guandong and see them growing in the wild and how they are being propagated in China. I've yet however to see anything on it's own roots in the trade.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Cedric

[Turtlesteve]

Very attractive flowers.  I've never seen one nor seen them for sale here.  For what it's worth, someone at the local camellia society had suggested that some varieties are best reproduced by air layering....I would think this should be the next thing to try.  They layered branches that were more than about 1/2" in diameter and 2-3 feet tall.

Would try one if I ever found seed or plants.  I've had decent results sprouting several species of camellia from seed this year.

Steve

[Hillizard]

One of these is growing (and has flowered) in a demonstration planting at the Berkeley Horticultural Nursery [http://berkeleyhort.com/ ]. Last time I checked they had none in stock for sale. Also, Peacock Horticultural Nursery [ http://peacockhorticulturalnursery.com/ ] has been trying to locate a commercial source of this species. Neither of these retail outlets ships. 

More information on this species is here: http://globaltrees.org/threatened-trees/trees/camellia-azalea/

 

[Jdiaz31089]

Wow, I've never seen this camellia - and I've been to Berkeley Hort a handful of times! I really like the foliage on it. Keep us apprised as to any developments with your propagation of this species. 

[Palm crazy]

Here is the botanical name for this species Camellia changii .    A little to tender for my neck of the woods so I’ve never seen it sold before. I wonder if there are other summer blooming Camellia with C. changii here is one of them……A summer blooming Camellia Hybrid cross of Camellia japonica 'Clara Brooks' X Camellia azalea. Flowers are miniature and dense.

 

 

 

 

[Cedric]

Palm crazy, changii is a synonym for azalea, yes it does indeed sound 'crazy' but the name is Camellia azalea. Changii is no longer in use.

Grafted plants are still readily available locally but the subjectively "better" forms of it are now becoming extremely difficult to find. I think this is because a lot of material was harvested initially and certain forms sold better or were more highly prized thus more demand was placed on those few trees out of an already small population in the wild.  To the detriment of that sub-population.  If they even still survive in the wild, I just don't know. Red is very very highly esteemed in China the more intense the better. Its not the sort of tree you can easily and sustainably harvest entire branches from either. 

The Camellia Society of America still actually lists it as having a "small flower", even though the largest form is three four times bigger than any existing camellia cultivar I've ever seen. I can only assume they got sent the small form in parts of America.........or the site is not being updated. Others in the Netherlands for example noted at how surprisingly large the flowers were.....the phenotypical diversity of the small surviving population certainly had the world somewhat confused.

Interestingly at the moment the market price has plummeted, dropped by almost 75% in some cases. Again Im thinking this is because the better forms are not easily available anymore and buyers have become choosy. The others with small flowers and less desirable flower forms, bleached colours tend to sit for a long time to the extent there always seems to be Camellia azaleas on sale. The sizes are getting smaller as well but this is not a problem as the grafting is neater and better for long term growth of the plant. Sometimes better ones still come out of the woodwork as people have stocks of them in their nurseries they haven't sold. There was an initial glut of the species on the market but at very extreme pricing. When the price fell they didn't bother bringing the stock piles out to market as I reckon they had themselves paid over the odds for the stock from China across the border and wanted to hold out for the pricing to return to its initial levels. It doesn't seem to have across the board. I managed to get a perfect pair of clean cleft grafted standards (they're all basically standards) of the form I like just a few months back only they were just a meter and a half tall and the stem just under an inch and a half or so wide. A Japanese client of our architect firm became obsessed with them as I had them each in a pot at the entrance to the garden studio. I very reluctantly sold them on. Long run they paid me back many many times over but I lost them sadly. Of course they then had a go having them propagated without much success, now they are using them to make hybrids....everything Camellia is very much popular in Japan.

[Cedric]

7 hours ago, Turtlesteve said:

Very attractive flowers.  I've never seen one nor seen them for sale here.  For what it's worth, someone at the local camellia society had suggested that some varieties are best reproduced by air layering....I would think this should be the next thing to try.  They layered branches that were more than about 1/2" in diameter and 2-3 feet tall.

Would try one if I ever found seed or plants.  I've had decent results sprouting several species of camellia from seed this year.

Steve

Air layering would have the same problems as cuttings. They root relatively easily as straight forward cuttings but then growing them on is the issue. Removed rooted air layers from the parent stock plant which is itself grafted would be the same issue.

Seed does germinate however there are two problems most of the seed is infertile and its difficult growing them on. This is also born out by the almost complete lack of seedlings  in the wild. Genetic poverty, as the small isolated population is basically genetically impoverished to the point they are producing infertile seed, though my understanding of these things is rather basic this might also explain the phenotypical diversity. I think DNA comparisons could be a lot wider in the small population though I suspect statistics probably show it's highly unlikely to throw up any new information.

[Turtlesteve]

36 minutes ago, Cedric said:

Air layering would have the same problems as cuttings.

No idea then....maybe something the roots don't like? 

When seeds do germinate, does the phenotype come true from seed?

[Sanips]

As Cedric said, the accepted name is Camellia azalea C.F. Wei.  It a very rare plant, mostly impossible to find and when you do you have to pay a good amount of bucks (I found a french nursery which sell it at 485€/$557 in 40L/10gal pots). It's beautiful indeed.

[Cedric]

12 hours ago, Turtlesteve said:

No idea then....maybe something the roots don't like? 

When seeds do germinate, does the phenotype come true from seed?

Yes quite possibly, or something they need that's missing, like a specific mycorrhizal fungi. Like some orchids need to grow beyond germination or to even germinate. It's just not clear as there seems to be a bit of a lack of published research. The roots are growing initially but then stalling. I've read the soils are high in pottasium and that they get seasonally flooded, that's right now, weeks at a time by the river that overflows, and that's  about it. 

Im not sure if the phenotype comes true from seed in part or entirely because personally I've never got one to survive beyond a seedling. I suspect if you could get them to grow to maturity or flowering stage you would find you would have to select out of quite a wide phenotype as the genetic diversity is so very low in the species.

I'm rambling because I honestly don't know but with a very small gene pool that possibility could exist at least as far as I understand especially given the phenotypical diversity that already exists.

Today purely by chance I managed to purchase another pair of stunning matching forms. I was en route to the dentist and last minute decided it wasn't a good day for it so went to the market instead. Impulse move. Was just the annual check up, dentist wise. The new ones have the same form as the big one but they are smaller plants and what looks like younger graft material if that's possible so if the flowers and leaves grow to the same size I'm not sure but they are absolutely what I like. The seller has r been getting in quite a few over the last week or so so I decided to go and see if they had any more new ones in and there they were. One has a slight split in the bark just above the graft, will have to inspect tomorrow see what's up. I suspect the grafting material was taken from the same tree in this case. Very very nice saturated colour and form of flower, got a good deal on the two too. Not sure where I will put them but not on public display that's for sure.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Cedric

[fastfeat]

I have a good friend who has a plant that he received as C. azalea. But it has smaller foliage and flowers, not nearly as stiff a habit. Perhaps it is a hybrid? Same color; single flowers. But with foliage and flower size similar to 'Shishi Gashira'. Growing in LA Co, possibly from Nuccio's? I will inquire as to source, look for pics. 

[Cedric]

On 12/07/2017, 1:52:28, Jdiaz31089 said:

Wow, I've never seen this camellia - and I've been to Berkeley Hort a handful of times! I really like the foliage on it. Keep us apprised as to any developments with your propagation of this species. 

Will do. The foliage on this form is very nice, it reminds me lot of some of the Proteas but more leathery.

[Jdiaz31089]

28 minutes ago, Cedric said:

Will do. The foliage on this form is very nice, it reminds me lot of some of the Proteas but more leathery.

My thoughts exactly. If I saw this plant in just leaf (not in bloom), I would probably guess it to be a protea of some sort.

[Cedric]

13 hours ago, fastfeat said:

I have a good friend who has a plant that he received as C. azalea. But it has smaller foliage and flowers, not nearly as stiff a habit. Perhaps it is a hybrid? Same color; single flowers. But with foliage and flower size similar to 'Shishi Gashira'. Growing in LA Co, possibly from Nuccio's? I will inquire as to source, look for pics. 

Maybe not a hybrid. Could be wrong but I doubt any would be for sale just yet, primarily because there are quite a few forms and what you're describing sounds like one of the many forms of C.azalea. If it's an ever flowering hybrid there would be no mistake in it's marketing and they would know absolutely what they were selling/getting. Hybrids are not known in the wild where grafting material is harvested as they've tested DNA. The Chinese have been doing some work on hybridising and a few other people elsewhere, think one in America too. I think if it is a hybrid it's more likely to be direct from a grower in China and possibly sterile. It's possible it's also not C. azalea either......how, where did it come from?

The one I thought could possibly be a hybrid was sold, so difficult to say in hindsight but I think it was probably just a form of C azalea, one I hadn't seen before. I've seen lots and lots of forms but perhaps just not all of them.  It looked remarkably like a flower the Chinese are claiming is an ever blooming Camellia hybrid, I think that biased me somewhat. It's not in the trade but who knows. The leaves were quite round....... think just different rather than a hybrid.

It's proving difficult to produce an ever blooming camellia out of C.azalea, some unsubstantiated claims but far as I know nothing has those traits yet. 

The dwarf Shishigashira has a tremendous flower. 

[Hillizard]

Update on the very rare, critically endangered and highly coveted Camellia azalea, blooming this past Sunday in a demonstration plot at a Berkeley, California nursery. Unfortunately they offer no plants for sale at this time. More information on this species: http://globaltrees.org/threatened-trees/trees/camellia-azalea/

[Josue Diaz]

Beautiful. Ever since seeing this post I've kept an eye out for this plant. 

4 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

Update on the very rare, critically endangered and highly coveted Camellia azalea, blooming this past Sunday in a demonstration plot at a Berkeley, California nursery. Unfortunately they offer no plants for sale at this time. More information on this species: http://globaltrees.org/threatened-trees/trees/camellia-azalea/