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Dudleya farinosa - habitat photos


Jdiaz31089

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 I was hiking at the Kings Range in Northern California and took some pictures of the native dudleys farinosa. I thought I'd share these with you here. 

There were two distinct forms - a green form and a white form

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And they grew in large colonies on west-facing cliff sides. 

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There is very little temperature variation here. Cool and foggy in the morning, warm and clear during the day. I wonder if Rhopalostylis would like it here?

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18 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

There is very little temperature variation here. Cool and foggy in the morning, warm and clear during the day. I wonder if Rhopalostylis would like it here?

Somewhere on the Central Coast it appears, and it looks to me like still below the northern latitude equivalence of the southern latitude that Rhopalostylis grows in it's native habitat.  I'm sure that if you planted some there they would do just fine!  The marine layer right over the water look reminiscent of my weekend.  We could see there was blue sky just a few hundred yards to our east, but we had our "air conditioning" machine working, a nice marine layer filtering some of the sun's heat, making it just comfortable.  My Rhopalostylis weren't arguing!

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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16 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Somewhere on the Central Coast it appears, and it looks to me like still below the northern latitude equivalence of the southern latitude that Rhopalostylis grows in it's native habitat.  I'm sure that if you planted some there they would do just fine!  The marine layer right over the water look reminiscent of my weekend.  We could see there was blue sky just a few hundred yards to our east, but we had our "air conditioning" machine working, a nice marine layer filtering some of the sun's heat, making it just comfortable.  My Rhopalostylis weren't arguing!

North coast actually! about 120 miles south of the California/Oregon border. I've been here in mid-winter as well as in mid-summer and there is virtually no difference, except perhaps more precipitation during the winter months. I think that I could be tempted to plant a small grove of seedlings in a ravine, along one of the many creeks that flow down the range into the ocean. 

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  • 1 year later...

Succulent Smugglers Descend on California: https://www.newyorker.com/news/california-chronicles/succulent-smugglers-descend-on-california

"Succulents—drought-friendly, fireproof, angular, Zen—long ago attained the status of design cliché, a living version of the shag rug, Heath mug, Eames chair. But now a particular species, Dudleya farinosa (stage name: Powdery Liveforever), a wild roseate plant with silvery, pink-tipped leaves and a spectacular yellow-flowered stalk, which thrives on California’s coastal bluffs, has become the It Plant for succulent thieves. Last week, in Monterey County, two Dudleya poachers, a married couple, pleaded no contest to charges including felony grand theft and felony vandalism related to their removal of more than eighteen hundred plants from Garrapata State Park, in Big Sur. It was the fourth successful Dudleya prosecution in California in a little more than a year."

 "'I’d call it a poaching trend,' Captain Patrick Foy, of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, told me. The thefts, he said, are driven by emerging demand for Dudleya of all kinds in Asia, where a mature plant can command a price of up to a hundred dollars. 'There are people who book a flight from Korea or China, and they literally fly in, rent a car, stop by a moving store to buy huge numbers of boxes, and then drive up the coast.' Various species of Dudleya are found from Oregon to Mexico. 'They harvest the plants, process everything in a hotel room, oftentimes, and ship them back to nurseries in Korea and China,' he said."

Dudleya.png

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1 hour ago, Gonzer said:

Two words for poachers like that.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hang-em-high-1968-2.jpg

Gonzer: That might be a bit extreme, but I agree with your sentiments! :rage:

 

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Dudleyas occupy a special place in my heart as they were one of the first plants that grabbed my attention in the early 70's. D. attenuata and it's many volunteer seedlings still grow year after year in the yard. Other more uncommon species reside in the Dudleya Container Ranch (DCR). Once upon a time someone I knew "rescued" a few large specimens from a bulldozer's path only to ask me later why they all died after initially transplanting successfully. He said he gave them plenty of water when they shriveled up in the summer. (!!!!!!!!!!) 

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18 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Succulent Smugglers Descend on California: https://www.newyorker.com/news/california-chronicles/succulent-smugglers-descend-on-california

"Succulents—drought-friendly, fireproof, angular, Zen—long ago attained the status of design cliché, a living version of the shag rug, Heath mug, Eames chair. But now a particular species, Dudleya farinosa (stage name: Powdery Liveforever), a wild roseate plant with silvery, pink-tipped leaves and a spectacular yellow-flowered stalk, which thrives on California’s coastal bluffs, has become the It Plant for succulent thieves. Last week, in Monterey County, two Dudleya poachers, a married couple, pleaded no contest to charges including felony grand theft and felony vandalism related to their removal of more than eighteen hundred plants from Garrapata State Park, in Big Sur. It was the fourth successful Dudleya prosecution in California in a little more than a year."

 "'I’d call it a poaching trend,' Captain Patrick Foy, of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, told me. The thefts, he said, are driven by emerging demand for Dudleya of all kinds in Asia, where a mature plant can command a price of up to a hundred dollars. 'There are people who book a flight from Korea or China, and they literally fly in, rent a car, stop by a moving store to buy huge numbers of boxes, and then drive up the coast.' Various species of Dudleya are found from Oregon to Mexico. 'They harvest the plants, process everything in a hotel room, oftentimes, and ship them back to nurseries in Korea and China,' he said."

 

Eighteen-hundred plants....:rant::rant::rant:

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Naples (inland), FL - technically 10a but more like 9b in the winter :hmm:

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7 hours ago, Missi said:

Eighteen-hundred plants....:rant::rant::rant:

Right. Which means a decrease in the natural population, which has measurable effects on the process of individuals in this genus reproducing/replacing themselves over time. They join many palms and other plants in an uncertain future. :(

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10 hours ago, Gonzer said:

Dudleyas occupy a special place in my heart as they were one of the first plants that grabbed my attention in the early 70's. D. attenuata and it's many volunteer seedlings still grow year after year in the yard. Other more uncommon species reside in the Dudleya Container Ranch (DCR). Once upon a time someone I knew "rescued" a few large specimens from a bulldozer's path only to ask me later why they all died after initially transplanting successfully. He said he gave them plenty of water when they shriveled up in the summer. (!!!!!!!!!!) 

I've never had much success in the past growing Dudleyas (bought from nursery sources BTW). They always seem to decline after a year or so, but I keep trying. They may require more "tough love" (drought) in the summer than I can stand. :unsure:

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In the summer, when they're dried and shriveled, don't be charmed by their little voices crying "Water, Water!". Ignore them. California native succulents only get water when Ma Nature's feeing benevolent.

 

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16 hours ago, Hillizard said:

I've never had much success in the past growing Dudleyas (bought from nursery sources BTW). They always seem to decline after a year or so, but I keep trying. They may require more "tough love" (drought) in the summer than I can stand. :unsure:

I grow mine where they get morning sun only. I have pulverulenta and crymosa. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/12/2019 at 11:20 AM, Hillizard said:

Succulent Smugglers Descend on California: https://www.newyorker.com/news/california-chronicles/succulent-smugglers-descend-on-california

"Succulents—drought-friendly, fireproof, angular, Zen—long ago attained the status of design cliché, a living version of the shag rug, Heath mug, Eames chair. But now a particular species, Dudleya farinosa (stage name: Powdery Liveforever), a wild roseate plant with silvery, pink-tipped leaves and a spectacular yellow-flowered stalk, which thrives on California’s coastal bluffs, has become the It Plant for succulent thieves. Last week, in Monterey County, two Dudleya poachers, a married couple, pleaded no contest to charges including felony grand theft and felony vandalism related to their removal of more than eighteen hundred plants from Garrapata State Park, in Big Sur. It was the fourth successful Dudleya prosecution in California in a little more than a year."

 "'I’d call it a poaching trend,' Captain Patrick Foy, of the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, told me. The thefts, he said, are driven by emerging demand for Dudleya of all kinds in Asia, where a mature plant can command a price of up to a hundred dollars. 'There are people who book a flight from Korea or China, and they literally fly in, rent a car, stop by a moving store to buy huge numbers of boxes, and then drive up the coast.' Various species of Dudleya are found from Oregon to Mexico. 'They harvest the plants, process everything in a hotel room, oftentimes, and ship them back to nurseries in Korea and China,' he said."

Dudleya.png

New article on Dudleya smuggling:  California’s ‘liveforevers’ face new threat: poachers engaged in lucrative, illegal succulent trade > "... some of the more common Dudleya species are selling on average for $50 to $100 per plant. And the demand, mostly from international markets, is hitting California hard."
https://www.fws.gov/cno/newsroom/highlights/2019/dudleya_poaching/

Dudleya1.png

Dudleya2.png

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  • 1 month later...

South Korean Nationals Indicted on Charges They Poached Wild Succulent Plants for Illegal Exportation to Asia

(public notice from May 31, 2019)  https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/south-korean-nationals-indicted-charges-they-poached-wild-succulent-plants-illegal

LOS ANGELES – Three South Korean nationals were charged today in a federal grand jury indictment with attempting to illegally export to Asia more than $600,000 in live Dudleya succulent plants that they had pulled out of the ground at remote state parks in Northern California.

The two-count indictment charges each of the following defendants with conspiracy to knowingly export plants from the United States that had been taken in violation of California law, and attempting to export plants taken in violation of state law:

-- Byungsu Kim, 44, who operates a nursery in Vista and is a fugitive;
-- Youngin Back, 45, who also is a fugitive; and
-- Bong Jun Kim, 44, who is in federal custody.

  If convicted on all counts, the defendants face a statutory maximum sentence of 10 years in federal prison.

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On 6/2/2019 at 11:48 AM, Hillizard said:

South Korean Nationals Indicted on Charges They Poached Wild Succulent Plants for Illegal Exportation to Asia

(public notice from May 31, 2019)  https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/south-korean-nationals-indicted-charges-they-poached-wild-succulent-plants-illegal

LOS ANGELES – Three South Korean nationals were charged today in a federal grand jury indictment with attempting to illegally export to Asia more than $600,000 in live Dudleya succulent plants that they had pulled out of the ground at remote state parks in Northern California.

The two-count indictment charges each of the following defendants with conspiracy to knowingly export plants from the United States that had been taken in violation of California law, and attempting to export plants taken in violation of state law:

-- Byungsu Kim, 44, who operates a nursery in Vista and is a fugitive;
-- Youngin Back, 45, who also is a fugitive; and
-- Bong Jun Kim, 44, who is in federal custody.

  If convicted on all counts, the defendants face a statutory maximum sentence of 10 years in federal prison.

Good to see California is demonstrating to others tempted the consequences of abusing natural resources. It is one thing if they desired to request permits to collect seed over a period of time.. This, is just greed.. Slam the door shut and toss the key..  No sympathy. 

On a more positive note, came across a story on the Daily Mail worth reading.. regarding a Brazilian couple who spent the past 20 years planting trees, etc to restore a barren cattle ranch to a 1,705 acre paradise.. Before / after pictures are quite dramatic..  Hoping to accomplish something similar when i buy a few acres..

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4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Good to see California is demonstrating to others tempted the consequences of abusing natural resources. It is one thing if they desired to request permits to collect seed over a period of time.. This, is just greed.. Slam the door shut and toss the key..  No sympathy. 

On a more positive note, came across a story on the Daily Mail worth reading.. regarding a Brazilian couple who spent the past 20 years planting trees, etc to restore a barren cattle ranch to a 1,705 acre paradise.. Before / after pictures are quite dramatic..  Hoping to accomplish something similar when i buy a few acres..

And for anyone who doesn't have the time, money or means to personally plant deforested land in the tropics, the charity platform Global Giving has many vetted projects that do just that:  https://www.globalgiving.org/ I've contributed to a very successful one in the Peruvian Amazon for years. :greenthumb:

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  • 1 year later...

There is a new bluffside hotel about to open in my neighborhood and as part of their project they were required to plant some natives on the adjacent bluff near the beach as well as above a public beach parking lot that is below the hotel.  I wasn't sure what they were going to plant in the holes, but this morning's walk showed what went into some of the smaller ocean bluff holes which included some Dudleya species.  The one below appears to me to be Dudleya edulis, but I'm not a specialist on these.  I'll have to snap a photo of the other species I saw another morning. 

I didn't recognize the plant in the second photo, but these were interspersed with the Dudleyas as well.  It was a bit disappointing to see ice plant interspersed in other areas of the steep slope above the parking lot, but at least they used a native tree from nearby, with small Torrey Pines.  Unfortunately the top of the bluff had a nice walking trail and would be covered with Sea Lavender in bloom this time of year, but now we have another hotel.

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20210227-BH3I2883-2.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Dudleya sp. in one of the entry succulent beds at Boyce Thompson.. Thinking D. brittonii  because the leaves on our native sp. look different, and don't have quite as much of the powdery white farina ( esp. in the center ) but, as with other species, leaves/color can be variable so... Neat to see any represented in gardens here.
DSC01392.thumb.JPG.2ebd1ac4575c9ad8fd77b84c798050d7.JPG

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On 2/27/2021 at 10:02 AM, Tracy said:

There is a new bluffside hotel about to open in my neighborhood and as part of their project they were required to plant some natives on the adjacent bluff near the beach as well as above a public beach parking lot that is below the hotel.  I wasn't sure what they were going to plant in the holes, but this morning's walk showed what went into some of the smaller ocean bluff holes which included some Dudleya species.  The one below appears to me to be Dudleya edulis, but I'm not a specialist on these.  I'll have to snap a photo of the other species I saw another morning. 

I didn't recognize the plant in the second photo, but these were interspersed with the Dudleyas as well.  It was a bit disappointing to see ice plant interspersed in other areas of the steep slope above the parking lot, but at least they used a native tree from nearby, with small Torrey Pines.  Unfortunately the top of the bluff had a nice walking trail and would be covered with Sea Lavender in bloom this time of year, but now we have another hotel.

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Looks like chaparral whitethorn. It’s a Ceanothus, so you should get some pretty blooms out of it. 
 

Are they trying to drown that poor Dudleya??!!

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40 minutes ago, msporty said:

Looks like chaparral whitethorn. It’s a Ceanothus, so you should get some pretty blooms out of it. 
 

Are they trying to drown that poor Dudleya??!!

The contractors who install projects like this usually have no clue as to native plant physiology so their planting methods leave much to be desired. This happened up the road in Carlsbad a few years ago. In an attempt to appease the water saving, "hey, we're doing our part", sector (that has no business sticking their nose in landscape projects), a long section of bluff was planted with natives without proper preparation. The result wasn't pretty. One reason you don't find Dudleya species growing naturally in these areas is the ground squirrel problem. Until THAT problem is addressed contractors are just throwing good money after bad.

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6 hours ago, Gonzer said:

The contractors who install projects like this usually have no clue as to native plant physiology so their planting methods leave much to be desired. This happened up the road in Carlsbad a few years ago. In an attempt to appease the water saving, "hey, we're doing our part", sector (that has no business sticking their nose in landscape projects), a long section of bluff was planted with natives without proper preparation. The result wasn't pretty. One reason you don't find Dudleya species growing naturally in these areas is the ground squirrel problem. Until THAT problem is addressed contractors are just throwing good money after bad.

You are right about the lack of follow through.  A new Coastal development permit from the Coastal Commission popped up on the stairs leading down from the hotel last month but it wasn't clear what the permit was for.  Now I know it was for some fencing on the bluff and this "restoration" project.  While the part closest to the beach doesn't have any irrigation, the hillside between the hotel and Ponto pay lot does have irrigation and the natives interspersed with non-native plantings that will require summer irrigation.  I've seen the one that I thought looks like Dudleya edulis growing wild in parts of the Torrey Pines reserve on the beachside cliffs over the decades, but I don't put too much hope in these plantings.  I'm waiting for the hotel to come back in and install some ice plant when the natives don't establish and then complain they need a seawall to protect their investment when some of the bluff drops off under the weight of the ice plant.  The last one is most likely to survive as its in a little 18" wide planter elvevated along the front of the hotel...  that is unless they decide to drown the poor things in irrigation.

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20210301_060450.jpg

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8 hours ago, Gonzer said:

The contractors who install projects like this usually have no clue as to native plant physiology so their planting methods leave much to be desired. This happened up the road in Carlsbad a few years ago. In an attempt to appease the water saving, "hey, we're doing our part", sector (that has no business sticking their nose in landscape projects), a long section of bluff was planted with natives without proper preparation. The result wasn't pretty. One reason you don't find Dudleya species growing naturally in these areas is the ground squirrel problem. Until THAT problem is addressed contractors are just throwing good money after bad.

 

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

You are right about the lack of follow through.  A new Coastal development permit from the Coastal Commission popped up on the stairs leading down from the hotel last month but it wasn't clear what the permit was for.  Now I know it was for some fencing on the bluff and this "restoration" project.  While the part closest to the beach doesn't have any irrigation, the hillside between the hotel and Ponto pay lot does have irrigation and the natives interspersed with non-native plantings that will require summer irrigation.  I've seen the one that I thought looks like Dudleya edulis growing wild in parts of the Torrey Pines reserve on the beachside cliffs over the decades, but I don't put too much hope in these plantings.  I'm waiting for the hotel to come back in and install some ice plant when the natives don't establish and then complain they need a seawall to protect their investment when some of the bluff drops off under the weight of the ice plant.  The last one is most likely to survive as its in a little 18" wide planter elvevated along the front of the hotel...  that is unless they decide to drown the poor things in irrigation.

20210301_060927.jpg

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20210301_060450.jpg

Maybe i'm not seeing any in the pictures but curious if they've included Agave shawii and Ferocactus viridescens. in some of these plantings.. If not, why not.. Both were common there and have been severely impacted by development.

As for ice plant, for some reason i thought California outlawed planting it right along the coast. Should be if not.

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1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Maybe i'm not seeing any in the pictures but curious if they've included Agave shawii and Ferocactus viridescens. in some of these plantings.. If not, why not.. Both were common there and have been severely impacted by development.

As for ice plant, for some reason i thought California outlawed planting it right along the coast. Should be if not.

You are right that there isn't any Agave shawii or Ferocactus viridescens in the plantings, at least I haven't seen any.  On the ice plant, there was some on the hillside prior to the project, and it's possible that they just did a really poor job of clearing it out when they did the planting.  However, we do know that the ice plant will crowd out the natives in short order.  Had they put a few Agave shawii or the Ferrocactus viridescens in, it would have discouraged at least a few kids from climbing on the fragile bluffs to carve their names into the sandstone.  Parents letting their kids dig into the fragile bluffs is a pet peeve of mine that goes back to my days in college working as a beach lifeguard here.  I still remain very outspoken about it, holding the parents responsible not the kids.... but I digress. 

Given that the Coastal Commission was involved in permitting, the species planting list had to be reviewed by their staff, so it is a bit surprising that neither the Agave or Ferrocactus were included.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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8 minutes ago, Tracy said:

You are right that there isn't any Agave shawii or Ferocactus viridescens in the plantings, at least I haven't seen any.  On the ice plant, there was some on the hillside prior to the project, and it's possible that they just did a really poor job of clearing it out when they did the planting.  However, we do know that the ice plant will crowd out the natives in short order.  Had they put a few Agave shawii or the Ferrocactus viridescens in, it would have discouraged at least a few kids from climbing on the fragile bluffs to carve their names into the sandstone.  Parents letting their kids dig into the fragile bluffs is a pet peeve of mine that goes back to my days in college working as a beach lifeguard here.  I still remain very outspoken about it, holding the parents responsible not the kids.... but I digress. 

Given that the Coastal Commission was involved in permitting, the species planting list had to be reviewed by their staff, so it is a bit surprising that neither the Agave or Ferrocactus were included.

As you mentioned, considering the Coastal commission's involvement, totally agree it's surprising neither were included, at least here and there among the overall project.  Agree about defacing the cliffs, as if they aren't already fragile enough.. See spray painted boulders in some areas here, which is just as appalling.  A local group went out to the area i've been exploring -east of Florence- and worked hard to power wash graffiti they could access near one of the parking areas. Was more, in the same spots, last time i was out there..

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2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 

Maybe i'm not seeing any in the pictures but curious if they've included Agave shawii and Ferocactus viridescens. in some of these plantings.. If not, why not.. Both were common there and have been severely impacted by development.

As for ice plant, for some reason i thought California outlawed planting it right along the coast. Should be if not.

Any plant that is capable of injuring a person is persona non gratis in cityscapes. Trust me on this. When I was landscaping downtown Carlsbad for 13 years any project involving spiny plant was quickly shot down. Too many litigious people out there.

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8 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

Any plant that is capable of injuring a person is persona non gratis in cityscapes. Trust me on this. When I was landscaping downtown Carlsbad for 13 years any project involving spiny plant was quickly shot down. Too many litigious people out there.

Hear what you're saying, and has to be one of many dumb policies various municipalities pursue in regards to landscapes in city spaces. On the other hand, ax-ing out certain plant selections/ landscape design ideas from city/ county landscape projects, due to the potential liability issues by ..lets be bluntly honest ..idiots.. is one thing you don't see much of here ( or apparently isn't much of an issue ). 

Honestly, if someone is willing to climb around on a bluff, like in the pictures Tracy posted, and you get hurt, -by plants, or whatever other hazard exists-.. you deserved it, lol.

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11 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Hear what you're saying, and has to be one of many dumb policies various municipalities pursue in regards to landscapes in city spaces. On the other hand, ax-ing out certain plant selections/ landscape design ideas from city/ county landscape projects, due to the potential liability issues by ..lets be bluntly honest ..idiots.. is one thing you don't see much of here ( or apparently isn't much of an issue ). 

Honestly, if someone is willing to climb around on a bluff, like in the pictures Tracy posted, and you get hurt, -by plants, or whatever other hazard exists-.. you deserved it, lol.

Don't get me started Nathan. ;-)

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19 hours ago, Gonzer said:

Any plant that is capable of injuring a person is persona non gratis in cityscapes. Trust me on this. When I was landscaping downtown Carlsbad for 13 years any project involving spiny plant was quickly shot down. Too many litigious people out there.

Agreed and understand that, but the western bluffside portion above the bathrooms at the South Ponto parking lot is actually a habitat restoration project as opposed to their own property.  I'll have to take a picture of the signs at the top of the overlook at the hotel showing the soil collapsing under someone standing at the edge of a cliff and the figure apparently falling.  Pretty comical.  Encinitas has actually used some Agave's at the smaller bluffside parks over looking the ocean like down at the H Street & J Street overlooks.  I guess Encinitas is a little more daring than Carlsbad  :mrlooney: , coming from the perspective a former resident of Carlsbad for 26 years.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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51 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Agreed and understand that, but the western bluffside portion above the bathrooms at the South Ponto parking lot is actually a habitat restoration project as opposed to their own property.  I'll have to take a picture of the signs at the top of the overlook at the hotel showing the soil collapsing under someone standing at the edge of a cliff and the figure apparently falling.  Pretty comical.  Encinitas has actually used some Agave's at the smaller bluffside parks over looking the ocean like down at the H Street & J Street overlooks.  I guess Encinitas is a little more daring than Carlsbad  :mrlooney: , coming from the perspective a former resident of Carlsbad for 26 years.

My problem with Carlsbad was being part of an organization that jumped headlong into a 'feel good' project without the benefit of proper research. Management never sought input or utilized employees (yeah, such as me) who were capably trained to provide experience and insight into establishing a well-planned and dynamic planting. Low bid contractors are always the recipients of these projects unfortunately and the results show. Tracy, if you remember my planting at the very north end of town (purple-crowns, Biz, broms, etc.) that was replaced with the roundabout did you notice that initially they planted many Dudleya pulverulentas that were nestled among summer water loving plants? I tried to convince the powers that be that this was a mismatch in terms of seasonal irrigation needs. BUT...since I was just a field hand without a degree, deaf ears were my only audience. Go look at that piece of #$!@ now.

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12 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

Tracy, if you remember my planting at the very north end of town (purple-crowns, Biz, broms, etc.) that was replaced with the roundabout did you notice that initially they planted many Dudleya pulverulentas that were nestled among summer water loving plants? I tried to convince the powers that be that this was a mismatch in terms of seasonal irrigation needs. BUT...since I was just a field hand without a degree, deaf ears were my only audience. Go look at that piece of #$!@ now.

I don't remember seeing the Dudleyas in that planter, but it is probably because didn't last long enough for me to see them.  Sounds like it must have been frustrating.  I totally get that low bid stuff on public projects, as I have had to deal with the contractors that are clueless with their only qualification being that they were capable of writing down the lowest number on a piece of paper.  Well we shall see how this new installation of Dudleyas performs over the coming months and what replaces the Dudleyas if they don't survive.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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24 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

...since I was just a field hand without a degree, deaf ears were my only audience.

Ahh.. Don't you love this train of thought by some..:rolleyes:  Will try not to open that Pandora's box here but have a chuckle when such out dated mindset is proven wrong.

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52 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

My problem with Carlsbad was being part of an organization that jumped headlong into a 'feel good' project without the benefit of proper research. Management never sought input or utilized employees (yeah, such as me) who were capably trained to provide experience and insight into establishing a well-planned and dynamic planting. Low bid contractors are always the recipients of these projects unfortunately and the results show. Tracy, if you remember my planting at the very north end of town (purple-crowns, Biz, broms, etc.) that was replaced with the roundabout did you notice that initially they planted many Dudleya pulverulentas that were nestled among summer water loving plants? I tried to convince the powers that be that this was a mismatch in terms of seasonal irrigation needs. BUT...since I was just a field hand without a degree, deaf ears were my only audience. Go look at that piece of #$!@ now.

Degrees are very overrated, right now the more valuable pieces of paper are wiping peoples rear ends.

Edited by amh
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2 hours ago, amh said:

Degrees are very overrated, right now the more valuable pieces of paper are wiping peoples rear ends.

Touché!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Ahh.. Don't you love this train of thought by some..:rolleyes:  Will try not to open that Pandora's box here but have a chuckle when such out dated mindset is proven wrong.

The skillful hand of a college grad with a pen at a drafting table supersedes 45 years of digging in the dirt education.

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1 hour ago, Gonzer said:

The skillful hand of a college grad with a pen at a drafting table supersedes 45 years of digging in the dirt education.

The problem with the grad is that they have never touched the dirt.

Education is wonderful, but the classroom does not exist in nature.

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28 minutes ago, amh said:

The problem with the grad is that they have never touched the dirt.

Education is wonderful, but the classroom does not exist in nature.

Agree, X level of classroom education definitely doesn't hurt. On the other hand, Guaranteed much more valuable lessons have come from getting my hands dirty / learning at my own pace/ time, etc.. rather than trying to remain conscious while someone with little enthusiasm lectures about some soon to be outdated landscape principle for an hour or so.

Edited by Silas_Sancona
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6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree, X level of classroom education definitely doesn't hurt. On the other hand, Guaranteed much more valuable lessons have come from getting my hands dirty / learning at my own pace/ time, etc.. rather than trying to remain conscious while someone with little enthusiasm lectures about some soon to be outdated landscape principle for an hour or so.

Everyone learns differently, I prefer academics and hands on.

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Here's an example of volunteer seedlings of D. pulverulenta that sprout up everywhere in my succulent garden. I know Soleirolia isn't xeric but it also sprouts everywhere!

dudleya_20210307155043321.jpg

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