Coconut Palms in Sydney Botanical Gardens

[The Palm Nut]

I visited the Sydney Botanical Gardens today and noticed three coconut palms planted, they were mature one's of about 15ft of trunk.

Unfortunately not the best spot as not around any core heat retention mass for keeping them warm during cold nights. Maybe there is some limestone rock close to the surface which could help.

 

I didn't have my camera with me so no photo's maybe someone can take a picture of them for future reference.

 

[The Palm Nut]

I also want to add that it is a well looked after garden well worth a look if your in Sydney! Some great old plants to be found. 

[dwimss]

could you share some pictures ?

[Mohsen]

5 hours ago, The Palm Nut said:

I visited the Sydney Botanical Gardens today and noticed three coconut palms planted, they were mature one's of about 15ft of trunk.

Unfortunately not the best spot as not around any core heat retention mass for keeping them warm during cold nights. Maybe there is some limestone rock close to the surface which could help.

 

I didn't have my camera with me so no photo's maybe someone can take a picture of them for future reference.

 

I have never seen them before , they must be very new, I m not sure how long  they going to last though...I must go to visit again and take pictures soon...

[doranakandawatta]

So...
So much looking forward to seeing photographs of the palms of Sydney Botanic Gardens !

BECAUSE:

The Royal Botanic Garden, Sydney, est. 1816, is the oldest botanic garden and scientific institution in Australia. It is home to an outstanding collection of plants from around the world with a focus on Australia and the South Pacific.

[doranakandawatta]

 

we really need some nice pictures !

[doranakandawatta]

But there is a Palm Grove Centre ... and  a palm house !

[Mohsen]

On 26/06/2017, 12:25:33, doranakandawatta said:

 

we really need some nice pictures !

I have already posted some pictures from my several visits in a seperate post...but there were no Coconuts then...

[Mohsen]

just had a quick visit and had a look at the dwarf Malay golden which transplanted there...

they look burnt but alive?

 

[Tropicgardener]

What a total waste of time and money, simple answer is they WILL die......... Malay Dwarfs are probably the least cold hardy variety. 

 

[Mohsen]

2 hours ago, Tropicgardener said:

What a total waste of time and money, simple answer is they WILL die......... Malay Dwarfs are probably the least cold hardy variety. 

 

I guess you are right , they might be dead already ...

[Tropicgardener]

1 hour ago, Mohsen said:

I guess you are right , they might be dead already ...

I applaud them for their enthusiasm to grow some tropical palms but obviously a lack of research on the subject...... The standards appear to have a higher degree to cold tolerance from what I experienced when I grew them down in Brisbane. Generally (but not always) the greener the Coconut, the higher the tolerance to cooler weather.

[The Palm Nut]

They definitely look worse now than they looked a few weeks ago. 

 

[The Palm Nut]

This is the last picture I took of my coconut and certainly one of the best when it looked good and healthy, it was well over 20 years old. About the same height as the ones in Sydney's gardens. They should of planted much smaller one's of a few years old and not the Malay Dwarfs variety for reason's all ready pointed out. They are slow growing this far south so you could have many years of decent looking palms. I can think of atleast two places that would provide good conditions, warmth being paramount. Can any of you Sydney residents pick out better suitable places. Lets see if we come up with some of the same spots. Unfortunately I don't hold out much hope for these ones. Have anyone seen Areca vestiaria planted out in any part of the gardens? These should do well if planted in the right spot.

 

 

[Daryl]

I wonder when they planted them? I hope they didn't go into the ground this last autumn? And Andrew is right, those Malay Dwarfs are much more cold tender than the regulars.

I remember seeing some really old photos of coconuts growing in Sydney, and read that they survived quite some time back in the 1800s...probably a warm decade or two due to climate change... 

They do stand a chance in the coastal suburbs such as Cronulla/Port Hacking and Northern Beaches. There was one growing in Sans Souci as well, but I haven't been back in years now. However, even if they do survive, they never look healthy like they do further north.

And a little history about the 'Palmy' Sydney Botanic Gardens... Veitchia joannis was described from the tree growing there...the 'type specimen'...they were very adventurous with their palm trials back in the 1800s and early 1900s...there have been species lists published from those times and they were pretty impressive!

 

Daryl

 

[bubba]

What is the latitude of Sydney? I know this is winter down under. The map provided shows this to be a location near water, which should be favorable. Do you know other potentially more favorable locations around Sydney or further south?

[Daryl]

Bubba, Sydney is at 34 degrees South. The Botanic Gardens is right on Sydney Harbour and has a very good microclimate.  They have some very interesting palms thriving there, especially some of the more recent plantings thanks to Colin Wilson. With the temperature moderation due to the harbour, plus the urban heat island effect, the climate there would punch above its weight...

 

Daryl

[Mohsen]

On 22/07/2017, 12:56:38, The Palm Nut said:

They definitely look worse now than they looked a few weeks ago. 

 

And we just at the middle of winter... lack of heat during days is something they don't like I think ...I live in Sydney since 7 years ago but I have been told by my 80 years old neighbors that Sydney used to have warmer weather compare to now , perhaps what we have hear is Global colding compare to global warming in northern hemisphere ?

[tim_brissy_13]

Mohsen - I think you'll find that the data contradicts your neighbour's claim. Most of SE Aus has had multiple record breaking years in terms of average temperature since 2000. I hear the same claims by the oldies about Melbourne; I think warmer days must just tend to stick in the memory better (and maybe increased sensitivity to cold with age).

[Mohsen]

7 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Mohsen - I think you'll find that the data contradicts your neighbour's claim. Most of SE Aus has had multiple record breaking years in terms of average temperature since 2000. I hear the same claims by the oldies about Melbourne; I think warmer days must just tend to stick in the memory better (and maybe increased sensitivity to cold with age).

Thanks Tim

at least for Thornleigh suburb ( where we are) the historical lowest temp is recorded as -1C  , but my gauges recorded -2 last year...or maybe the low  average is higher but the lowest is lower ( this should be possible mathematically) ...

anyway I hope that my neighbors are wrong and we get the warmer and warmer winters and one day perhaps I can grow Coco in my yard too, I cant wish for more  

 

[tropicbreeze]

 One of the early comments years back about climate change claimed that there would be greater extremes. Fewer but more severe bursts of bad weather with more heat in between. So the average temperature is rising even though there are record breaking low temperatures. As far as historical weather goes the human being is a very poor weather gauging device.

But what happened to that huge pyramid they had in the Sydney RBG? It could have held a few good coconuts for many years.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

They should try some Indian Talls from north central India, like the New Delhi area.  I think this variety is the most cold hardy in the world, probably hardy down to about 25F when they are well established and have some size to them.  I have also heard that there is a variety from China that is pretty cold hardy too, probably with similar cold hardiness to the Indian Tall.  These two varieties could probably withstand extended chilly (though non freezing) weather too better than other varieties.  Also, they could try the Mexican Tall, the Jamaican Tall, and the Green Variety of Hawaiian Tall too, which are known to be more cold hardy.

John

[palmtreesforpleasure]

On 23/07/2017, 17:23:18, Daryl said:

Bubba, Sydney is at 34 degrees South. The Botanic Gardens is right on Sydney Harbour and has a very good microclimate.  They have some very interesting palms thriving there, especially some of the more recent plantings thanks to Colin Wilson. With the temperature moderation due to the harbour, plus the urban heat island effect, the climate there would punch above its weight...

 

Daryl

Hi All, 

A new regime at the gardens now, i can say in had nothing to do with the planting coconuts trees

regards

colin

[Mohsen]

On 24/07/2017, 7:03:11, tropicbreeze said:

 One of the early comments years back about climate change claimed that there would be greater extremes. Fewer but more severe bursts of bad weather with more heat in between. So the average temperature is rising even though there are record breaking low temperatures. As far as historical weather goes the human being is a very poor weather gauging device.

But what happened to that huge pyramid they had in the Sydney RBG? It could have held a few good coconuts for many years.

I think you are referring to the palm house ? I had never chance to see it ,and  it's been closed now...

[tropicbreeze]

11 hours ago, Mohsen said:

I think you are referring to the palm house ? I had never chance to see it ,and  it's been closed now...

I did a search on it and came up with this article dated 14 January 2014.

I really liked the pyramid. Admittedly it wasn't as good as being in an actual tropical rainforest, but it was still pretty good for being inside a 'building' in  Sydney.

[Mohsen]

10 hours ago, tropicbreeze said:

I did a search on it and came up with this article dated 14 January 2014.

I really liked the pyramid. Admittedly it wasn't as good as being in an actual tropical rainforest, but it was still pretty good for being inside a 'building' in  Sydney.

I don't think there is a replacement, the article says it was planed to be open in 2016???

[Palms4Steve]

I'll have to check out the coconuts next time I'm in there.

[PAPalmGrower]

I was at the Sydney Botanical Gardens back in April and somehow missed seeing these.  The other palms they have in their collection were very nice.  Saw a young dwarf Fiji fan palm (Pritchardia thurstonii) chugging along. I've read that those don't appreciate temps much below 5 degrees C.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

No way they will survive

Yes i knew straight away that Colin Wilson wouldn't have anything to do with trying these out he has too much common sense

[James West]

OK. I was down at the Sydney gardens on the 28th of Sept, so that's 2 months after Mohsen took the pictures of the Malay dwarfs planted there. Looks like they've gone off the boil a bit.

The trees had been growing in the hothouse but had to be removed due to renovations. Unfortunately this took place in late May - just in time for winter ! The season was very mild - no antarctic blasts, no snow in the Blue Mountains and average highs of about 19.2 celsius for the three month period. But the poor palms seem to know that they're not in Bali Hai.

 

[PalmTreeDude]

6 hours ago, James West said:

OK. I was down at the Sydney gardens on the 28th of Sept, so that's 2 months after Mohsen took the pictures of the Malay dwarfs planted there. Looks like they've gone off the boil a bit.

The trees had been growing in the hothouse but had to be removed due to renovations. Unfortunately this took place in late May - just in time for winter ! The season was very mild - no antarctic blasts, no snow in the Blue Mountains and average highs of about 19.2 celsius for the three month period. But the poor palms seem to know that they're not in Bali Hai.

 

Ouch!

[tim_brissy_13]

Going straight from a hothouse to in ground in May - even palms with proven hardiness aren't going to appreciate that. Coconuts are no chance.

[Mohsen]

8 hours ago, James West said:

OK. I was down at the Sydney gardens on the 28th of Sept, so that's 2 months after Mohsen took the pictures of the Malay dwarfs planted there. Looks like they've gone off the boil a bit.

The trees had been growing in the hothouse but had to be removed due to renovations. Unfortunately this took place in late May - just in time for winter ! The season was very mild - no antarctic blasts, no snow in the Blue Mountains and average highs of about 19.2 celsius for the three month period. But the poor palms seem to know that they're not in Bali Hai.

 

They are doomed ...I think they have been transplanted from QLD though ...there was no hope for this project from the beginning ...  

[Tyrone]

9 hours ago, James West said:

OK. I was down at the Sydney gardens on the 28th of Sept, so that's 2 months after Mohsen took the pictures of the Malay dwarfs planted there. Looks like they've gone off the boil a bit.

The trees had been growing in the hothouse but had to be removed due to renovations. Unfortunately this took place in late May - just in time for winter ! The season was very mild - no antarctic blasts, no snow in the Blue Mountains and average highs of about 19.2 celsius for the three month period. But the poor palms seem to know that they're not in Bali Hai.

 

They are dead dead dead. I would never for a second have thought that Colin had anything to do with that. Colin has too much sense. His palm decisions make for lovely lush alive palm gardens.

[Daryl]

Definitely not Colin's input...but somebody there is making silly decisions without consulting someone that knows better. A coconut may stand a chance there if treated properly, but to move them from a greenhouse to late autumn weather in Sydney was a death sentence. I am surprised that there is any green left at all.  Have they put heating cables in the soil? If not the roots would be nicely rotting by now I'm sure.  Poor planning on their part, or maybe they just don't know/care?

 

[James West]

Daryl, I think you're right - they don't look the best for wear. Someone suggested the palms were transplanted from Queensland, but that is assuredly not the case. No one would do that in May, unless they had lost the plot. I will try to post a poor photo I took of two of the palms in June 2016. Note the ceiling of the hothouse above the trees, and the fruit are also clearly visible. 

[James West]

Three of the four trees survived the winter, which is remarkable considering they were, as I understand, transplanted from the Calyx hothouse in May [2017]. Below is a photo I took on the 1st of December. The one on the left is doing the best. The third one is out of the picture as I was using the shadow of its trunk to shield the camera from the stark morning light. They do look like they could do with a nitrogen boost:

[Daryl]

Well, that is quite amazing! I thought they were gone for sure! They will need to get a move-on before next winter though...

Thanks for the update James!

 

[James West]

Hi Daryl. It is quite extraordinary that three of them survived the winter just after having been transplanted. There are a number of locations in the gardens which I think would have been much better. As far as I can determine - from talking to the gardeners - there have been no efforts to provide any kind of nutrients for the trees. Shame. I think they could do with some salt or nitrogen compound. There is a certain amount of spotting on the leaves which is obviously not due to the cold at this point in time. We have a good five months of warm to hot temperatures ahead right now [Dec 11th] to get some serious foliage and rooting to see them through next winter. I'll post photos of their progress as time goes by.

In the meantime, here's a very healthy looking young Beccariophoenix growing in the "palm jungle" section of the gardens:

[Tyrone]

They won't make a second Sydney winter. They need a super duper nutrition plan to get them past a point where they might survive another winter to return to what they look like now in a years time.