Coconut Palm: ganoderma? potassium deficiency? LY? nothing?

[MattyNativeSeed]

 

Hi all!  Brand new here (first post!).  Just found this website in the process of trying to troubleshoot my troubled palm, and thought I'd ask you for some opinions.  I'm by no means an expert but have spent the better part of today googling, so have a baseline of knowledge, and will point out things I think might be relevant.  I'm sorry that this will be such a long post, but I really hope you guys might be able to help me!  Thanks a ton in advance to anyone who bothers to read the whole thing!

I've only owned this house for about 8 months, and am still noticing things.  So I can't tell you too much about the ancient history of this tree.  But I don't think it really looked like this when I bought the house.  The first three photos (photo1m, photo3m, photo4m) show an overview of the tree, from different angles.  As you can see, there are more dead and drooping fronds than I would expect.  By my count, there were 7 dead (or near dead) and flattened on the trunk, 4 or so that looked to me like they were prematurely drooping, and 15-16 ones that look fairly healthy to my eyes.  I'm not sure what that ratio means.  Maybe that is a normal ratio?  Doesn't look too normal to me, though.  Not sure if it points to any disease in particular though, but I thought I'd give that info.  I'm particularly worried about the front-facing frond in photo1m, it sure seems like it dropped rather prematurely, its still yellow!

I think I've eliminated lethal yellowing as a culprit, but let me know if you disagree.  I've read that the earliest symptoms are premature fruit drop, followed by the flowers being blackened instead of cream.  The flowers still look normal, and as you can see there are coconut at all stages of growth.  No drops in a while.

Regarding ganoderma:  I checked the trunk and did not find a conk.  But I've read that some trees die before they ever show a conk.  You should know that I found a conk that I'm 95% sure is ganoderma on an areca palm in the back.  The one areca with the conk had died and lost its crown before I moved in.  I wasn't too torn up because I don't like arecas and will probably remove them eventually anyway.  But of the nearly 2 dozen trunks in the areca cluster, only that one had showed signs of bad health... every other one was very healthy.  That tree with the conk is probably about 100 feet away from the palm I'm asking about, and a fence in between.  Not sure what that means about its chances of spreading, but I thought I'd give that info.

The next two photos (photo2m and photo5m) show a closeup of some fronds. I've read that potassium deficiency can show these symptoms, with one trait being that the rachis stays greener than the leaflets.  I believe I see that here.  Not sure if ganoderma shows something similar?

The next two photos (photo6m and photo7m) show a more closeup of some parts of the crown.  As you can see in photo6m, parts of it do seem kind of healthy to my eye.  But as you can see in photo7m, some of the fronds to seem to discolor prematurely, especially the fronds at "3 o clock" and "4 o clock".

The final two photos are of other palms in the vicinity.  Photo "other_palm1" shows a frond of a coconut palm nearby, on the other side of the front of the house (about 20 ft away).  It seems like it might be showing mild signs of potassium deficiency.  But you should know that this is the lowest frond, almost below horizontal (about to cut it off), so maybe it's just on its natural decline).  Photo "other_palm2" shows these little guys, who are almost right next to the main coconut palm in question.  The bottom fronds are yellowing a little, but no more than usual I don't think.  However, I don't know if these guys have a different nutritional requirement, so I don't know what to make of it.

Also, one more thing to add.  Another palm near the palm in question (see the fence behind it in photo1m? on the other side of that.  you can see its fronds popping up) also seems to be showing more textbook signs of potassium deficiency I think.  I can't identify the palm type (at least, haven't yet).  I can upload pictures of that one if people wish.

Ok I think thats enough for now.  Thanks so much for reading this far!  Please ask if you have additional questions!  If I forgot to add anything, I'll bring it up.

Matt

Edited June 10, 2017 by MattyNativeSeed

[Palmaceae]

Welcome!

Looks like potassium deficiency to me, just give it a good shot of good palm fertilizer with minors and it should recover.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Thanks for responding Palmaceae!  Let's hope you're right.  I already did that today before even posting   Although I think it was just a name brand from Home Depot, so probably not the best stuff in the world.  Do you have a brand you prefer?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Hmmmm,  I don't see a spear leaf in any of the coconut pics.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Hmm well that would be bad. I'll get on my roof tomorrow to try to get a closer look.

[Orly]

On 6/10/2017, 6:15:37, MattyNativeSeed said:

Thanks for responding Palmaceae!  Let's hope you're right.  I already did that today before even posting   Although I think it was just a name brand from Home Depot, so probably not the best stuff in the world.  Do you have a brand you prefer?

I use Palmgain from Home Depot myself.  It's supposed to be pretty good stuff, includes minors.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Hey everyone, I'm back with some more info/pics.  Sorry for the continued awful quality of the pics, I'm just taking them with my phone and the lighting has been awful.

Ok, I climbed up to the roof to look for the spear leaf.  I think I found it, but it was really hard to see from the room (too much clutter where I thought it was).  So I went back down and think i found it.  It's pointed out in the first photo.  That's it, right?  Or is it open enough that you think it's no longer the spear leaf, and there should be another one somewhere?  If so it's probably small and inside of the clutter somewhere.  I'm not that worried, because most diseases that kill the spear have 'top-down' symptoms, right?  And this palm is showing 'bottom-up' symptoms.  You can also see in this photo that the top half of the foliage does look pretty healthy, at least to me.

I took some other photos from the roof.  The first two are a closeup of the foliage for some of the fronds that looked to me like "premature droopers".  You can see the discoloration.  It definitely looks to me a lot like other pictures of severe potassium deficiency, although I guess my question is whether anyone knows if the precise discoloration pattern notably differs from more serious diseases like LY or ganoderma. (I read that fronds of dwarf malayan cocos, which I think this may be, don't necessarily yellow during LY. But still I think the amount and health of the coconuts may eliminate LY).

The next two photos are just a closeup of the coconuts and initial frond growth.  The coconuts and young fronds look to be fairly healthy to me, but I'm no expert (nor do I know what this means, if anything).  In the second of the two, you'll notice the frond on the right is drying up while it's still at a pretty steep angle!

Lastly is a picture of the base.  It occurred to me that the amount of cluster/competition at the base could be exacerbating nutrient deficiency.  As you can see, there is a sprouting hardwood and also cabbage palm.  I don't want to actually dig at them, for fear of harming the coco's roots.  Should I just keep cutting the stalks/fronds and let them die a natural death?  Would that open up the cabbage to ganoderma, which could transfer to coco? (I've seen ganoderma elsewhere in my yard).  Sorry for bolding this, I just feared that it might not get read as it's at the bottom, and to me its the most important part, since it may result in actions on my part.

Thanks again for reading this far.  Sorry for being verbose, I'm hoping this might provide useful for someone with similar symptoms in the future!

[TikiRick]

Gandoderma. I have it. Started with an Areca (Dypsis lutescens), killed that, and spread to Syagrus, Ptychosperma, Actinorhynis, and more Dypsis.

Unfortunately its in the air, the soil, and is incurable. It's a painful slow death.

Key signs include necrotic lower fronds, discolored newer fronds, and smaller weakened spear. It need not have visible conchs because the roots are being strangled off with no outward physical fungus.

It sucks. No palm should be planted in or near the old removed palm. I've heard it will affect bamboo as well.

Ive gained a new appreciation for flowering trees! 

[MattyNativeSeed]

Thanks for responding, Rick.  And oh no, you're in Ft Lauderdale too!  haha.  I must admit, it's definitely an outcome I'm fearing.  But I still remain a little hopeful, because the UFL website goes out of their way to say that there's no positive diagnosis until a conk forms, because of how many other things can create the same symptoms: 

"' We do not know exactly how many months or years pass between initial infection of a palm and development of the conk. There is no method that can determine if a palm is infected with G. zonatum. Until the conk forms, there can be no confirmation of this disease. Therefore, it is not possible to guarantee that a palm is free of Ganoderma when first planted in the landscape. "

The emphasis on "no" is theirs (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp100, under "disease life cycle" section).  Also, the new fronds emerging, and spear, look good to me on mine.  So like I said, I still have a bit of hope, but like I said there's definitely a fear that its ganoderma.  I've seen it in my arecas.  I've cranked up the nutrient level in the soil, now its time to watch it and see how she does.  If it keeps getting worse, out it goes!

[Tomw]

Matt,

 

Welcome to Palm Talk. The UFL/Timothy Broschat’s web site that your referencing is a great resource. I hope that it’s not ganoderma, but keep looking at the bottom of the trunk for signs of conks. A few years back (8 -12 years) we had a big problem lethal yellowing, but I have not seen any new signs of it in northern Palm Beach County yet. It kind of looks like that to me, but I’m not 100%, below are two pictures from UFL/Timothy Broschat’s web site that shows lethal yellowing and it describes what to look for. However it is still holding coconuts but not a lot, and it looks like it is still flowering and these are the first signs to look for. Per UFL/Timothy Broschat’s web site: “The first obvious symptom on mature palms (those able to produce fruit) is a premature drop of most or all fruits. For coconuts, the calyx (stem) end of the fruit will usually have a brown to black, water-soaked appearance (Figure 1). Next, inflorescence (flower) necrosis (death) develops. Normally light yellow to creamy white in color, emerging flower spikelets are instead partially or totally blackened. Male flowers abscise from flower spikelets and no fruit is set. These symptoms will only be observed if the palm is flowering or fruiting when the disease develops”.

 

Look around your area and see if the are other coconut palms and or Adonidia merrillii (Christmas palm) showing similar signs, these are the first palms to get lethal yellowing from my experience.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Thanks so much for the thorough response,  Tom (is it Tom?). 

So does this definitely  look like more than a simple case of severe potassium deficiency to you? 

I must say, of all the pictures of all the diseases, lethal yellowing of the dwarf Malayan, which I think is what I have, looks the most like what I'm seeing.  I'd been holding on to the hope though that all resources are clear to state that none of the symptoms are enough to diagnose LY, but with the right progression they are. And the progression begins with dropping fruit and black flowers, which I don't see. However, I think I can make out some coconuts in one of the photos you posted!  Got me worried. 

One more question if you don't mind. What is your opinion in clearing out the base and trying to rid it of those two competing saplings.  A good idea or would that open it up more to ganoderma? 

Thanks again! 

[Tomw]

Matt,

Yes it’s Tom. Let me start by saying that I’m by no means an expert, but I have dealt with LY and ganoderma. The old timers in our palm society say that there isn’t anything that you can do for ganoderma. Also Timothy Broschat identifies this about ganoderma: “Conditions that are conducive for disease development are unknown. There are currently no cultural or chemical controls for preventing the disease or for curing the disease once the palm is infected.”. I would recommend that if the conks appear chip and or break them off with a zip-lock bag, zip it up and dispose of it in you trash. If it is ganoderma cut it down as soon as it’s confirmed and have the stump ground and bag that up, seal it up and put it out for the trash. It is also recommended that you do not replant an palm in that place.  If it is LY you should be able to find other tree’s in your area exhibiting the signs. It may be a nutritional deficiency, but you would have seen signs of that when you bought your house six months ago. Do you have any pictures from around that time?  Identification of the root cause for a palm issue is seldom easy or black and white.  

 

I would clear out some of the plants at the base, so that you can keep an eye out for conks.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Tom, thanks for the idea to look for older photos.

The first two photos are from 11 months ago.  They are from google streetview.  Knowing what I know now, if I saw that palm, I probably would have thought nutrient deficiency but not any disease.

The third photo is from the original listing, my guess is 9 to 10 months ago.  Unfortunately, it's from the back.  The one from the front showed even less of the palm's crown. From this one, I'd probably have thought the same thing... nutrient deficiency but not necessarily any disease...right?

The fourth photo is from about 5.5 months ago, shortly after I moved in and was beginning to go after the yard (you can see a philodendron I removed... hate those things).  I have no shame in admitting, the palm was definitely looking worse for wear in this photo, and if I was more of a palm buff at the time I should have seen the signs and acted, by seeking advice and giving it some nutrients.

So, again, that photo from 5.5 months already shows the prematurely hanging fronds... looks like two of them? There are seven hanging ones now. Although maybe those dropped and the ones I have now are different fronds.. probably likely I guess.  I cant specifically recollect cleaning up fallen fronds from that palm, I have to clean up so many fronds in general.

So does that progression lean towards nutrient deficiency?  I've heard ganoderma can be slow too.  From what I've read, that might be too slow for LY.

Matt

[Tomw]

Matt,

 

It does look like it maybe nutritional deficiency given the signs from 11 months ago, which is a better scenario then LY or ganoderma! Also we just are coming out of a 7 month drought and that may have also contributed to the issue.

 

By the way your neighborhood looks like a real gem.

 

Good luck!     

[MattyNativeSeed]

Thanks for the reply, Tom.  Yes, the neighborhood is great, I am in love with it.  It's very much a lush and thriving ecosystem.  Which is great, but it also means the area has a lot of those natural fungi that we think of as diseases.  I've seen ganoderma on some arecas, and also armillaria tabescens on some hardwoods, which actually concerns me a good bit more.  But that's the price I pay for such a naturally vegetated area I guess. all I can do is keep an eye out, and replace when things die.

[MattyNativeSeed]

Hi guys!  Long time no talk.  Time for a major update with some pressing questions.

I had mostly been reassured of my palms health as of late.  I had been using some solid palm tree fertilizer at the normal suggested amounts, as well as some of the liquid Southern Ag stuff, at the doses recommended for medicating sickly palms.  I slowed down applications lately because it looked to be improving.  Some of the lower fronds kept dying, but at what looked like a slower rate.  Lots of healthy new growth.  The fraction of growth which looked healthy appeared to be increasing.  Plenty of healthy flowers (no necrosis and I've been watching like a hawk), and fairly few premature nut drops.  A full-view photo from today is attached as the first photo.  Clearly looks like maybe it was/is sick, but seems better to me than it used to.

If anything besides nutrient deficiency was ever wrong, I think I can safely eliminate LY, because I don't see many of the symptoms, and the decline has been slower than LY ever is.  I do still check the trunk for possible ganoderma conks.  Haven't seen any.

Well today I was poking around looking for conks, and noticed something that to me looks very concerning.  I think I recall seeing maybe the beginning stages of this a month or so, but didn't think anything of it at the time.  It looked worse today.  I saw what looked to be a part of the trunk that was almost bursting at the base (photo 2).  I think most trunks must go through something like this at some point, because it's common to see the exposed roots at the base.  That's why I didn't think anything of it the first time.  But this time it looked worse... almost rotten?  I poked at the base of the 'bursting' part, and noticed I could probably pull of a piece.  So I did, so I could see the back (photo 3).  Should I have even been able to pull off a piece?  It didnt exactly fall off, but it wasnt terribly hard to pull off either.  I didn't see anything too concerning... a little bit of white sinewy stuff on the back, but it looks more like fungus in the picture than it did in person... looked more like snail tracks in person.

I then also noticed these little white specks on the roots in this portion of the base (photo 4).  Do you recognize those?  Are they normal, or some sign of disease?

Lastly, and perhaps most concerning, is what I noticed in the portion of the base just to the right of the 'bursting' portion.  It looks almost concave inward, as if its almost buckling under the pressure of the weight of the tree.  It was hard to capture in a photo, but I tried (photo 5).  Do you see what I mean?  Is this concerning to you?  Is it common for the trunks to have a little inward notch like this, or is it a sign of very bad things?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Plantking165]

On 8/30/2017 at 6:37 PM, MattyNativeSeed said:

Hi guys!  Long time no talk.  Time for a major update with some pressing questions.

I had mostly been reassured of my palms health as of late.  I had been using some solid palm tree fertilizer at the normal suggested amounts, as well as some of the liquid Southern Ag stuff, at the doses recommended for medicating sickly palms.  I slowed down applications lately because it looked to be improving.  Some of the lower fronds kept dying, but at what looked like a slower rate.  Lots of healthy new growth.  The fraction of growth which looked healthy appeared to be increasing.  Plenty of healthy flowers (no necrosis and I've been watching like a hawk), and fairly few premature nut drops.  A full-view photo from today is attached as the first photo.  Clearly looks like maybe it was/is sick, but seems better to me than it used to.

If anything besides nutrient deficiency was ever wrong, I think I can safely eliminate LY, because I don't see many of the symptoms, and the decline has been slower than LY ever is.  I do still check the trunk for possible ganoderma conks.  Haven't seen any.

Well today I was poking around looking for conks, and noticed something that to me looks very concerning.  I think I recall seeing maybe the beginning stages of this a month or so, but didn't think anything of it at the time.  It looked worse today.  I saw what looked to be a part of the trunk that was almost bursting at the base (photo 2).  I think most trunks must go through something like this at some point, because it's common to see the exposed roots at the base.  That's why I didn't think anything of it the first time.  But this time it looked worse... almost rotten?  I poked at the base of the 'bursting' part, and noticed I could probably pull of a piece.  So I did, so I could see the back (photo 3).  Should I have even been able to pull off a piece?  It didnt exactly fall off, but it wasnt terribly hard to pull off either.  I didn't see anything too concerning... a little bit of white sinewy stuff on the back, but it looks more like fungus in the picture than it did in person... looked more like snail tracks in person.

I then also noticed these little white specks on the roots in this portion of the base (photo 4).  Do you recognize those?  Are they normal, or some sign of disease?

Lastly, and perhaps most concerning, is what I noticed in the portion of the base just to the right of the 'bursting' portion.  It looks almost concave inward, as if its almost buckling under the pressure of the weight of the tree.  It was hard to capture in a photo, but I tried (photo 5).  Do you see what I mean?  Is this concerning to you?  Is it common for the trunks to have a little inward notch like this, or is it a sign of very bad things?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

That's normal adventitious roots when the palm gets older they tend to form nothing to worry about. How is the palm now? 

[Arturo Boston]

I think you have a potassium deficiency.   Mine are doing the same in Puerto Rico.