SABAL WITH BIGGER LEAVES

[Brighella 0]

Hi,
i would like to know which sabal among causiarum, domingensis and maritima has the greatest crown , exactly the longest petioles? 
Has bermudana greater leaves/petioles of these 3?

[TexasColdHardyPalms 3,174]

This has to be Causarium.

[sonoranfans 1,907]

What I have read is that Domingensis and causiarum have similarly sized crowns, 20' or more across.  Of the two, the domingensis has longer petioles but smaller leaves.  So causiarum is likely going to be the biggest leaves.  Here is a pic of my domingensis, 6 years from a strap leaf seedling (in a 4" square by 10" deep pot) I bought from tejas tropicals, its my fastest fan palm.  It is ~ 15' tall overall and approaching 20' wide in the crown.  Look at the open crown created by the long petioles, which are upt to 8' in length.  This palm is in a high, dry spot where irrigation is not so good, it could have more leaves if it were watered more thoroughly.  the causiarum has a less open crown in part due to the bigger leaves, and somewhat shorter petioles.

[Brighella 0]

Thanks for answering,

I still have some question:
Which are the princpalis differences (if there are..) between a maritima and a dominigensis?
Is it true that Bermudana has  bigger leaf (with a smaller crown) then dominguensis/causiarum/maritima?

[Brian F. Austin 120]

From the photos I've seen, Bermudana has relatively short petioles and large leaves.

Sonoranfan- beautiful domingensis! Can we see some shots of your other sabals? Uresana?

How would S. Mexicana fit in as far as canopy/leaf size compared to uresana or causiarum?

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Brian F. Austin

[sonoranfans 1,907]

Brian, I dont know about mexicana, but domingensis leaves are about 6'(along the direction of the petiole) but highly costpalmate.  Interesting comparison in growth rate with my uresana, also bought from tejas at the same time, same container size.  Its a notably slower grower, probably 10-11' overall.  Both are in full sun.  Here is my uresana with serenoa repens silver underneath and a bizzie next to it for color reference.  It is bluish and it seems that its retaining that blue tint.

[sonoranfans 1,907]

11 hours ago, Brighella said:

Thanks for answering,

I still have some question:
Which are the princpalis differences (if there are..) between a maritima and a dominigensis?
Is it true that Bermudana has  bigger leaf (with a smaller crown) then dominguensis/causiarum/maritima?

Its been a while but as I recall maritima is a tad smaller than domingensis in crown and bermudana is the smallest of the 4 including causiarum.  I have not seen a maritima in person, just read about it and pics.  I had a bermudana in my last house and it went to seed, leaves were smaller than the domingensis for sure and obviously the causiarum which has the largest leaves of any sabal(but not quite bizzie size).

[Brighella 0]

I went to a nursery today.
Can you confirm that these are sabal domingensis?

[sonoranfans 1,907]

brighella,  I cannot identify any of these sabals at that age.  Some of these sabals can only be differentiated by the orders of branching of the inflorescence and fruit sizes.  Did the nursery say where they got the seed?  Those could be domingensis, but I cant understand why anyone would pot up a double maritima, domingensis, or causiarum, they are too big when mature for that.  the leaves are highly costpalmate like domingensis, but that would not be definitive.

[sonoranfans 1,907]

On the length of petioles, this will depend on sun exposure.  When under canopy the petioles will elongate substantially and they will be shorter in direct sun(like my Domingensis).  Still in direct sun mine has some petioles as long as 8' and maybe a tad longer.  I have no idea how long they would be under canopy.  In my experience many sun loving palms are thinner in crown, have longer petioles and hold less leaves when under canopy.  this is certainly true of wild stands of sabal palmetto in florida.

[Brian F. Austin 120]

22 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Brian, I dont know about mexicana, but domingensis leaves are about 6'(along the direction of the petiole) but highly costpalmate.  Interesting comparison in growth rate with my uresana, also bought from tejas at the same time, same container size.  Its a notably slower grower, probably 10-11' overall.  Both are in full sun.  Here is my uresana with serenoa repens silver underneath and a bizzie next to it for color reference.  It is bluish and it seems that its retaining that blue tint.

Thanks for sharing the photos. The uresana looks at home with the other silvers and blues. I think I like the open look of the domingensis. The uresana have very striking fronds though.

[Sabal Steve 826]

On June 7, 2017 at 3:14:50 PM, sonoranfans said:

What I have read is that Domingensis and causiarum have similarly sized crowns, 20' or more across.  Of the two, the domingensis has longer petioles but smaller leaves.  So causiarum is likely going to be the biggest leaves.  Here is a pic of my domingensis, 6 years from a strap leaf seedling (in a 4" square by 10" deep pot) I bought from tejas tropicals, its my fastest fan palm.  It is ~ 15' tall overall and approaching 20' wide in the crown.  Look at the open crown created by the long petioles, which are upt to 8' in length.  This palm is in a high, dry spot where irrigation is not so good, it could have more leaves if it were watered more thoroughly.  the causiarum has a less open crown in part due to the bigger leaves, and somewhat shorter petioles.

That's a beauty, Tom.

This is labeled as S. casaurium at Palomar College.  It's a pretty big palm - probably approaching 3' at the base.  I have trouble telling it apart from S. domengensis.

Any thoughts?  Big seeds.  

[Sabal Steve 826]

Here's a few local Sabals.  Hopefully these can provide some scale.  I went with the names, as I've seen them described.

Sabal "Riverside".  

Morley Field, Balboa Park, San Diego.

Sabal bermudana

Balboa Park, by the cottages, on the south rim of Palm Canyon.

Sabal palmetto

San Diego Zoo

[Brighella 0]

could the riverside be a hybrid between (maybe) bermudana and dominguensis?

[sonoranfans 1,907]

On 6/9/2017, 6:35:10, The Steve said:

That's a beauty, Tom.

This is labeled as S. casaurium at Palomar College.  It's a pretty big palm - probably approaching 3' at the base.  I have trouble telling it apart from S. domengensis.

Any thoughts?  Big seeds.  

I believe the orders of branching of the inflorescence can be used to differentiate, 4 for causiarum, less for domingensis.  Check out these causiarum.  http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_causiarum   ALso the monohraph on sabals https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/87c0/552d12162e67e912d7abcf700777515b5809.pdf    see figure `14 dendogram  7( 4 orders), 6(3 orders).  the causiarum in the link show large leaves and thick petioles.    the one you posted looks like causiarum to me.  I have noticed more rigid leaflets, less costpalmate, and a thicker trunk on mature sabals.    

 

[Collectorpalms 852]

On 6/7/2017 at 5:14 PM, sonoranfans said:

What I have read is that Domingensis and causiarum have similarly sized crowns, 20' or more across.  Of the two, the domingensis has longer petioles but smaller leaves.  So causiarum is likely going to be the biggest leaves.  Here is a pic of my domingensis, 6 years from a strap leaf seedling (in a 4" square by 10" deep pot) I bought from tejas tropicals, its my fastest fan palm.  It is ~ 15' tall overall and approaching 20' wide in the crown.  Look at the open crown created by the long petioles, which are upt to 8' in length.  This palm is in a high, dry spot where irrigation is not so good, it could have more leaves if it were watered more thoroughly.  the causiarum has a less open crown in part due to the bigger leaves, and somewhat shorter petioles.

Howdy, do you have an update of how this guy is doing? Do you mind posting some pictures if possible? Thank you

[Collectorpalms 852]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:39 PM, Sabal Steve said:

Here's a few local Sabals.  Hopefully these can provide some scale.  I went with the names, as I've seen them described.

Sabal "Riverside".  

Morley Field, Balboa Park, San Diego.

Sabal bermudana

Balboa Park, by the cottages, on the south rim of Palm Canyon.

Sabal palmetto

San Diego Zoo

Was the Sabal Riverside Labeled Sabal Riverside?

[Darold Petty 2,643]

Collectorpalms,  did you see this thread from a few days ago ?

 

 

[Collectorpalms 852]

10 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Collectorpalms,  did you see this thread from a few days ago ?

 

 

Yes, I saw that but thought the first picture was Domingensis and the recent thread was Causarium.