Queen after first winter in Virginia

[SEVA 1,010]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:03 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

If it wasn't for the first pic. you'd posted, showing the more solid yellow coloration to the back of the legs, i would have thought the same / added it to the list of potential matches..   I wish some of the various state Herp guides would include more  pictures of such details of Frogs / Toads more often.   Even frog butts can help id a species, lol..

Looked over Virginia's list of Turtle sp. to try and help id the one you'd posted, but at that age, there were like 5 or 6 possible matches..

Thanks for the help.  There sure are numerous species (I assume due to the different colors) of tree frogs that hang out on the palms.  Maybe they're just easier to see on them, but I've noticed an increase in tree frogs as the palms grow larger and as more are planted. 

[SEVA 1,010]

Here's a close up of the emerging frond. 

[SEVA 1,010]

Additionally, I germinated about 200 queen palm seeds roughly 2 years ago in community pots.  Well, I accidentally forgot to bring one of them inside.  I don't even remember why I placed it there, but it was left on the north side of the house this past winter.  I noticed it last month and upon further inspection found 4 seedlings that still had some green (barely).  I went ahead and planted them in the ground just to see what happens.  3 of them are now completely brown, but 1 still has some green.  I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens. 

[palmsOrl 2,045]

Incredible that a queen palm seedling could survive any winter anywhere in VA.  Keep us up-to-date on that survivor.

Glad to see your large queen palm is still kicking!

[VA Jeff 170]

I had chamaedorea radicalis seedlings overwinter several times, occasionally for a few winters with no protection.  But they did not thrive like that.  Looked kinda like your queen seedling there often.

Edited April 24, 2019 by VA Jeff

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

This is pretty cool, I have literally hundreds of Sabal palmetto seedlings in the ground from when I flung seeds everywhere about two or three years ago, they all are doing good and survive the winters fine so far. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[sevapalms 29]

8 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Incredible that a queen palm seedling could survive any winter anywhere in VA.  Keep us up-to-date on that survivor.

Glad to see your large queen palm is still kicking!

It was definitely a relatively warm winter here, so that probably helped a little with the seedlings. Many areas in the southeastern part of the state didn’t even get more than a trace of snow or drop below 8B/9A temperatures. It’s still amazing they survived though! I sure wouldn’t expect that here.

[SEVA 1,010]

18 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Incredible that a queen palm seedling could survive any winter anywhere in VA.  Keep us up-to-date on that survivor.

Glad to see your large queen palm is still kicking!

I was certainly surprised to see any green at all.  Maybe it's just taking longer to turn brown, but I'll try to update when/if growth is evident.

16 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

I had chamaedorea radicalis seedlings overwinter several times, occasionally for a few winters with no protection.  But they did not thrive like that.  Looked kinda like your queen seedling there often.

I've actually wanted to try this species.  Maybe someday.  If I ever obtain any, I'll likely attempt some form of protection. 

16 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

This is pretty cool, I have literally hundreds of Sabal palmetto seedlings in the ground from when I flung seeds everywhere about two or three years ago, they all are doing good and survive the winters fine so far. 

Good to hear.  All my Sabal palmetto (SC seeds) seedlings are still in pots, except one.  I do have numerous Sabal minor seedlings popping up all over.  Mine produce thousands of seeds each year.  I usually cut off the infructescences to plant the seeds in pots, but a few fall off before then.  Native or not (I've read conflicting articles), they appear to be naturalizing.

10 hours ago, sevapalms said:

It was definitely a relatively warm winter here, so that probably helped a little with the seedlings. Many areas in the southeastern part of the state didn’t even get more than a trace of snow or drop below 8B/9A temperatures. It’s still amazing they survived though! I sure wouldn’t expect that here.

It certainly was a warmer winter this year.  We only recieved a dusting of snow, but just down the road it was all rain. Some areas didn't see any snow at all this past winter.  I'm starting to think the low temperatures in my area are a bit warmer than my weather app suggests.  I know we can get some severe cold sometimes (and damage occurs for marginal species), but in many cases I notice my palms/ plants are fine while the same species are damaged once you travel away from the swamps. 

[mdsonofthesouth 541]

@SEVA most temps at my place on my sensors on my actual property were usually warmer than the reported ones. Should get some sensors to verify you're in a microclimate. I can tell by the fact that surrounding areas get more ice or snow when we get events.

[SEVA 1,010]

15 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

@SEVA most temps at my place on my sensors on my actual property were usually warmer than the reported ones. Should get some sensors to verify you're in a microclimate. I can tell by the fact that surrounding areas get more ice or snow when we get events.

Oh I'm sure I'm in a microclimate just looking at the vegetation and how they respond after cold events.  There's a house about 2 miles away that had Spanish moss in a few trees, but most of it was killed during the 2017-2018 winter.  The Spanish moss in my yard/swamp is still alive, but turned purple afterwards.  It's green now of course.  There was even a stand of trees in Bertie County, NC (beside NC-11) that had a decent amount of Spanish moss, but most was killed as well during that awful winter.  It would be interesting to see the numbers though.  Maybe I'll purchase some kind of weather station someday, but likely won't be this year. 

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

Spanish moss here survived the winter. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

[sevapalms 29]

2 hours ago, SEVA said:

Oh I'm sure I'm in a microclimate just looking at the vegetation and how they respond after cold events.  There's a house about 2 miles away that had Spanish moss in a few trees, but most of it was killed during the 2017-2018 winter.  The Spanish moss in my yard/swamp is still alive, but turned purple afterwards.  It's green now of course.  There was even a stand of trees in Bertie County, NC (beside NC-11) that had a decent amount of Spanish moss, but most was killed as well during that awful winter.  It would be interesting to see the numbers though.  Maybe I'll purchase some kind of weather station someday, but likely won't be this year. 

I have Virginia native spanish moss I collected in First Landing State Park, and it survived the winter of 2017-18 completely undamaged, probably because it was from such a local source. It survived this winter too, but I unfortunately can’t find it. A bird likely took the last strand of it which is all that was left after other birds took the rest. Here’s a picture of it after I collected it.

[sevapalms 29]

I’m not sure if I’m in a microclimate or not, but I’m less than a half mile from some inlets of the Chesapeake Bay, so that probably helps.

[SEVA 1,010]

42 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Spanish moss here survived the winter. 

Was this past winter (2018-2019) the first winter?

[SEVA 1,010]

16 minutes ago, sevapalms said:

I have Virginia native spanish moss I collected in First Landing State Park, and it survived the winter of 2017-18 completely undamaged, probably because it was from such a local source. It survived this winter too, but I unfortunately can’t find it. A bird likely took the last strand of it which is all that was left after other birds took the rest. Here’s a picture of it after I collected it.

That's good to hear that it survived.  The Spanish moss I have is what was growing here.  There isn't much of it, but there is enough that if birds take some it isn't noticeable.  I'll see if I can find the picture, but there was a bird that used the Spanish moss to make a nest hanging from a branch.  It wasn't used as material woven over a branch, but it was suspended.  If that makes any sense.

[sevapalms 29]

13 minutes ago, SEVA said:

That's good to hear that it survived.  The Spanish moss I have is what was growing here.  There isn't much of it, but there is enough that if birds take some it isn't noticeable.  I'll see if I can find the picture, but there was a bird that used the Spanish moss to make a nest hanging from a branch.  It wasn't used as material woven over a branch, but it was suspended.  If that makes any sense.

That’s neat! I’ve seen a lot of nests like that made out of what I assume is my moss. That’s interesting how you have some that was growing near your house too. I haven’t seen any other native strands of it in VA besides first landing state park, but it makes sense it exists in other places besides there.

[SEVA 1,010]

6 minutes ago, sevapalms said:

That’s neat! I’ve seen a lot of nests like that made out of what I assume is my moss. That’s interesting how you have some that was growing near your house too. I haven’t seen any other native strands of it in VA besides first landing state park, but it makes sense it exists in other places besides there.

It certainly isn't common, but you'll occasionally find some small patches of it around here.  I've never been, but I believe there is some in False Cape State Park in southern VB.  The northernmost location I know of that has Spanish moss is Northampton County, VA on the Eastern Shore.  Here's a link to the article: https://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/virginia-scientists-search-for-northernmost-realm-of-spanish-moss/article_4e584659-2f01-5b80-b6d2-dff5092305e1.html

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

In its habitat outside of First Landing State Park in Virginia, you really only find it along rivers and swamps. You start to see it away from water once you get into Southeastern North Carolina. I remember driving back from St. Matthews, South Carolina and seeing just forest and farmland with the trees filled with thick Spanish Moss for miles away from water, this is pretty far inland too! 

[sevapalms 29]

28 minutes ago, SEVA said:

It certainly isn't common, but you'll occasionally find some small patches of it around here.  I've never been, but I believe there is some in False Cape State Park in southern VB.  The northernmost location I know of that has Spanish moss is Northampton County, VA on the Eastern Shore.  Here's a link to the article: https://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/virginia-scientists-search-for-northernmost-realm-of-spanish-moss/article_4e584659-2f01-5b80-b6d2-dff5092305e1.html

That’s a neat article!

 

4 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

In its habitat outside of First Landing State Park in Virginia, you really only find it along rivers and swamps. You start to see it away from water once you get into Southeastern North Carolina. I remember driving back from St. Matthews, South Carolina and seeing just forest and farmland with the trees filled with thick Spanish Moss for miles away from water, this is pretty far inland too! 

Yeah, the farthest north inland place away from swamps I’ve seen is west of New Bern, NC. It looked very interesting and neat all over the trees.

I also found this map to where spanish moss is native to. I haven’t seen it in some of these areas, but it’s from the USDA, so it must have a good reference. https://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=tius

[SEVA 1,010]

Here's the photo of the nest; it's the only picture I could find.  I wish I had a better camera/ phone back then, but oh well.  I think it was a Northern Parula Warbler, but I wasn't sure.  It's not a species I studied in ornithology class. 

[VA Jeff 170]

I planted (in trees) half of a garbage bag full of First Landing Spanish moss in various trees in the vicinity of Kiptopeke roughly a dozen years ago.  I went back to Kiptopeke last year, and couldn't find obvious signs of moss, but I didn't look too hard.  That's south of Eastville.  Supposedly it has historically grown all the way up into Maryland along the Pocomoke River centuries ago.

 

I've also seen it as far west as Columbia, SC along a river.

Edited April 26, 2019 by VA Jeff

[RJ 688]

2 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

I planted (in trees) half of a garbage bag full of First Landing Spanish moss in various trees in the vicinity of Kiptopeke roughly a dozen years ago.  I went back to Kiptopeke last year, and couldn't find obvious signs of moss, but I didn't look too hard.  That's south of Eastville.  Supposedly it has historically grown all the way up into Maryland along the Pocomoke River centuries ago.

 

I've also seen it as far west as Columbia, SC along a river.

I can vouch that there are certainly substantial pockets of it in Columbia, also along lake Murray. 

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

It's definitely in Columbia, SC. It's all over Congaree National Park (as well as wild Sabal minor) just outside of Columbia as well. I believe there are even some little stands a little Northwest of Lake Murray. 

[RJ 688]

31 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

It's definitely in Columbia, SC. It's all over Congaree National Park (as well as wild Sabal minor) just outside of Columbia as well. I believe there are even some little stands a little Northwest of Lake Murray. 

Yes there are stands down along Dreher Shoals park which is on the NW shore of lake Murray, I own property about 400 yards from the shore and have some scattered on oaks and hickory trees.  There are some large S. Minor specimens north of Columbia that I pass on the way to work in some wet oak/pine forest.  I really notice them in the winter when the tree foliage doesn't block their view from the road. 

[VA Jeff 170]

Sabal minor grows as far NW as Ansonville, NC, less than an hour east of Charlotte.  I have some seeds from there.  The palms themselves are not very big.  I might just plant them along my riverfront, but I will probably put the land up for sale, so hopefully they will stay for posterity anyway.

 

So what is the furthest north you have seen ball moss?  I've seen it in southern Georgia on the coast.

[PalmTreeDude 1,862]

13 hours ago, VA Jeff said:

Sabal minor grows as far NW as Ansonville, NC, less than an hour east of Charlotte.  I have some seeds from there.  The palms themselves are not very big.  I might just plant them along my riverfront, but I will probably put the land up for sale, so hopefully they will stay for posterity anyway.

 

So what is the furthest north you have seen ball moss?  I've seen it in southern Georgia on the coast.

I've seen ball moss in Charleston in Mt Pleasant. 

[cm05 302]

Is there anything I can do to make my Spanish moss grow faster? Do they need sun? Mine is in full (bright) shade.

I have a thicker variety, not sure where it originates from, it’s only grown a little bit and last summer was literally as humid as Florida.

Edited April 27, 2019 by cm05

[Nj Palms 129]

I got this Spanish moss from Savannah just this week. Put it on an overhanging broadleaf oak and a bald cypress in the front of the house. Didn't put too much on that one as I heard deer may eat Spanish moss. I plan to take the moss in only when it gets below 10 two or three times a year. I will leave some strands out to weather it out. Does anyone know the min. temp that it can take? P.S sorry for the photo spam.

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Nj Palms

[Nj Palms 129]

For some reason I can't upload the other pics. They will be on another thread.

[Nj Palms 129]

5 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I've seen ball moss in Charleston in Mt Pleasant. 

I've seen it in San Antonio.

[sevapalms 29]

14 hours ago, Nj Palms said:

I got this Spanish moss from Savannah just this week. Put it on an overhanging broadleaf oak and a bald cypress in the front of the house. Didn't put too much on that one as I heard deer may eat Spanish moss. I plan to take the moss in only when it gets below 10 two or three times a year. I will leave some strands out to weather it out. Does anyone know the min. temp that it can take? P.S sorry for the photo spam.

 

Probably around 5-10 degrees if you got it from Savannah, but that’s just an estimate based on the different hardiness of my VA moss I collected and my FL moss I bought.

Edited April 28, 2019 by sevapalms

[Nj Palms 129]

That's what I was thinking too. I will probably just take it in on the coldest nights.

[sevapalms 29]

15 minutes ago, Nj Palms said:

That's what I was thinking too. I will probably just take it in on the coldest nights.

That’s a good plan, in my opinion.

[SEVA 1,010]

The photo on the left is from the original photo.  The photo on the right is from today.  Not much change. Maybe some growth? I'm not sure. 

[Nj Palms 129]

Mark it with sharpie at the base. You could put a clear plastic bag over it to raise temps and humidity to grow faster.

[SEVA 1,010]

I'll see if I have a sharpie and mark it tomorrow.  I'm afraid it'll cook if I place plastic over it.  The high temperatures have been near 90 degrees the past few days and are forecast to remain between mid 70s and upper 80s for the next week.  It's usually pretty humid here too.

[Nj Palms 129]

6 minutes ago, SEVA said:

I'll see if I have a sharpie and mark it tomorrow.  I'm afraid it'll cook if I place plastic over it.  The high temperatures have been near 90 degrees the past few days and are forecast to remain between mid 70s and upper 80s for the next week.  It's usually pretty humid here too.

You should be fine then! Good luck!

[SEVA 1,010]

On 5/3/2019 at 9:42 PM, Nj Palms said:

You should be fine then! Good luck!

Thanks.  I checked this past weekend, and the mark is gone (I did use permanent marker).  It still does not appear to be moving.  Probably not a good sign.  I'll either update when it is evidently dead or growth is noticeable.

[Laaz 1,520]

I have never seen Tillandsia recurvate  here in Charleston. We had it in FL where I lived before.