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How much water is too much for a Royal Palm?


MesquiteRetreat

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We moved to Deep South Texas about two years ago from Zone 4 and are new to palms. We’ve planted several Foxtails, Pygmy Dates, Queens, different Fans, etc, and all are doing great. However, we also planted three Royal Palms that are causing great concern. In fact, we have already replaced one, and the other two have very few fronds and do not seem to grow. When a new frond does finally appear, it is stunted and shorter than their counterparts. The sheaths do not shed, either. They are about 15' tall and were originally planted over a year ago. They are in full sun (Zone 9B) and we are fertilizing every four months with a palm fertilizer (but not when first planted). The soil is surprising nice with little clay. Since they had brown frond tips, we upped the water...several times. They are on timed, drip irrigation. I’ve read that Royals are “water hogs” and “may do better is clay soils”. But how much water is too much? They each get about 15 gallons 2x week. Is this enough water? Too much water? Hope the pictures help. Thank you.

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Welcome to the forum! Guess you only live about 10 miles from me. Not sure why you are having trouble with the royals. They grow like weeds in this area. Where did you get them? They might be getting sunburn? If they came from a Florida nursery where there are more clouds and rain. Mine get water through the water table which is quite salty, so that should not be an issue. I doubt that you can over water them. Maybe cut back on fertilizer until they are more established. And make sure that they are not planted too close to something that might get damaged by falling fronds. They will likely get really big, really soon!

Oliver

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I too would think too much water is unlikely as they grow really well even in the rainiest parts of Puerto Rico. However I have no experience with starting with any palms that large. Hope some others here can help as they are lovely palms.

Welcome to PalmTalk where many friendly knowledgeable people have answered so many of my questions over many years now. Sounds like you have a nice collection and know the basics already.

 

Congratulations for escaping the bitter cold of zone 4!

 

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Cindy Adair

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If overwatered in my experience they will swell up and get small cracks in the base of the trunk

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If overwatered in my experience they will swell up and get small cracks in the base of the trunk. I think what you are seeing is wind damage and a little bit of transplant shock.

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There are Royals in Darwin that are in damp soil 24/7 ( my own as I pour the water on during our 'dry' season ) Unless in damp soggy clay I cant imagine too much water is an issue unless it occurs during an extended cold winter spell. They are a tough resilient species that tolerate the odd mild frost here in Australia and thrive on heat.

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Thanks so much to everyone for responding...that was great! Oliver, the Royals came from Tree of Life in San Benito, but they get their stock from Florida. We buy a lot from them and love their stock. Some time ago we had one of their experts come out to our home and he suggested we increase the water, which we did, but the palms are still "not happy". Because of all this wonderful feedback from Palmtalk, we’ll add another loop of drip to each Royal. Thanks, again, everyone!

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Their natural habitat is along river banks in the tropical Caribbean. So the roots probably like a lot of water.

PalmSavannaThumb.jpg

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Never is too much water for Roystoneas.

May be your problem is transplant shock os not enough water or the near trees( ¿peppertrees?) are drinking the water or the rootball has peat moss  and the peatmoss after to be bonedry, is hydrophobic.

I don't know. But Roystoneas are strong palms and recover fast.

Mine after a few problems was worst than yours and now, after 18 months was like a monster.

May 2015 and October 2016IMG_20150518_200703618_HDR.thumb.jpg.b8eIMG_20161022_104238591.thumb.jpg.5703c56

 

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More water is better. For Roystoneas.

Other palms may be different, feel free to ask.

We live to serve palm nuts in their nutty nuttiness.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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This is how they grow in habitat (and the picture was taken during the dry season). I'm pretty sure you can't over-water them.

IMG_5156.JPG

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Sue, give the Roystoneas lots of room. Like steroidal bulls in an ultra-fragile china shop. They get fat. As in almost 3 feet (1 M) across.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

This is how they grow in habitat (and the picture was taken during the dry season). I'm pretty sure you can't over-water them.

IMG_5156.JPG

From Florida habitat?

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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On 5/24/2017, 3:21:23, MesquiteRetreat said:

We moved to Deep South Texas about two years ago from Zone 4 and are new to palms. We’ve planted several Foxtails, Pygmy Dates, Queens, different Fans, etc, and all are doing great. However, we also planted three Royal Palms that are causing great concern. In fact, we have already replaced one, and the other two have very few fronds and do not seem to grow. When a new frond does finally appear, it is stunted and shorter than their counterparts. The sheaths do not shed, either. They are about 15' tall and were originally planted over a year ago. They are in full sun (Zone 9B) and we are fertilizing every four months with a palm fertilizer (but not when first planted). The soil is surprising nice with little clay. Since they had brown frond tips, we upped the water...several times. They are on timed, drip irrigation. I’ve read that Royals are “water hogs” and “may do better is clay soils”. But how much water is too much? They each get about 15 gallons 2x week. Is this enough water? Too much water? Hope the pictures help. Thank you.

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Here's my $0.02, they were terribly potbound which stunted them.  I've seen them like that here in FL before, many times.  Probably would have helped to score the root ball with a saw before planting.  It'll be a while before they outgrow the condition, IMO.  Oh, and they may very well show symptoms of drought despite good watering.  Thats because the potting soil where 99% of the roots are located dries out really fast.  Royals recover from having roots severed very quickly, but root bound recovery is slow.  Be very mindful to keep enough water on them until they put out new roots.  Direct the water towards the the potting soil where the roots are located.  

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Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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5 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

From Florida habitat?

Yes, the Fakahatchee.

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Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Royals get big.

From LaHabraHatchee

IMG_2510.thumb.JPG.55660a375e3cbb87c0ee3

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Keith, in fact, they were really large palms in amazingly small pots. But as we have explored more and more nurseries here in the Valley, we have discovered that same scenario was common with all palms. All our palms were planted by Tree of Life in the same manner (size of hole, soil amendments, etc.), but I do not remember them scoring any of them. Soooo, that is a very interesting thought.

Wow, Zeeth, guess I’m safe with another loop of drip, huh?!

Cindy, as for Zone 4, if I never walk on crunchy snow or drive on black ice again, I’ll be a happy gal!

To all, thanks again for all the input. This forum is great! We love the majestic look of the Royals, and lots of our neighbors have them, so we are hoping ours will get past this stage soon! 

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10 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Royals get big.

From LaHabraHatchee

IMG_2510.thumb.JPG.55660a375e3cbb87c0ee3

That's Butch, in the failing light of a late spring evening.

The trunk is about 21/2 or 3 feet across the base. Total height about 35-40 feet (12 - 14 M)

The leaves weigh about 50 pounds each when they fall; now that the palm is getting big, they're starting to fall hard.

DON'T for the love of You Know Who, plant something like this next to a road, driveway, patio or boat dock. Or anyplace where someone or something might get brained by those leaves.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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My hubby reminded me that we had taken photos when Tree of Life replaced the Royal. Does this give anyone any clues? My apologies for not posting these pics sooner...had forgotten all about them.

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  • 2 years later...
On 5/24/2017 at 3:21 PM, MesquiteRetreat said:

We moved to Deep South Texas about two years ago from Zone 4 and are new to palms. We’ve planted several Foxtails, Pygmy Dates, Queens, different Fans, etc, and all are doing great. However, we also planted three Royal Palms that are causing great concern. In fact, we have already replaced one, and the other two have very few fronds and do not seem to grow. When a new frond does finally appear, it is stunted and shorter than their counterparts. The sheaths do not shed, either. They are about 15' tall and were originally planted over a year ago. They are in full sun (Zone 9B) and we are fertilizing every four months with a palm fertilizer (but not when first planted). The soil is surprising nice with little clay. Since they had brown frond tips, we upped the water...several times. They are on timed, drip irrigation. I’ve read that Royals are “water hogs” and “may do better is clay soils”. But how much water is too much? They each get about 15 gallons 2x week. Is this enough water? Too much water? Hope the pictures help. Thank you.

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I am having the exact same problem...my Royals look just like your pics.  They did not score the root ball when planted.  Because the leaf tips are turning brown, I thought we were over watering them....twice a day, every day, as instructed by the nursery.  PLEASE HELP as we have paid dearly for these Royals.  Should we water more than twice a day?  Fertilize more?  ( nursery said wait a few months.  We are located East of Tampa, FL.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/9/2020 at 7:22 PM, JoanneL said:

I am having the exact same problem...my Royals look just like your pics.  They did not score the root ball when planted.  Because the leaf tips are turning brown, I thought we were over watering them....twice a day, every day, as instructed by the nursery.  PLEASE HELP as we have paid dearly for these Royals.  Should we water more than twice a day?  Fertilize more?  ( nursery said wait a few months.  We are located East of Tampa, FL.

Welcome to the forums!

If it is possible to provide some light shade and tie the fronds up, that might help slow transpiration and browning.  They may be adding more chlorine to your water (if you're on city water) due to the corona virus.  That could be having an impact.  We should start getting rain a little more regularly soon.  Hopefully that will have a positive impact.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Some of my new royals are also browning a bit. Mainly on the outer fronds. I’m chalking it up to being transplanted during an unusually dry and hot time. In general, it’s probably a lot wetter here. They get hand watered plus irrigation. The new Spears coming out are green so I don’t think they can get overwatered easily in your area.

Order some microlife slow release organic fertilizer. 

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Royals love water, a well watered royal has a fat trunk and when they get underwatered they are thin of trunk and crown and have that exagerated coke bottle shape.  Of my two royals from the same source, the one near the leaky hose bib in part clay soil and the trunk is ~30" thick and has almost no coke bottle shape.  The other one is taller but has a trunk that is more coke bottle shaped with a trunk that tapers off from up high to 2' above the ground about 1/4 of the total thickness(7-8") up top(30-32").   IF I look around the local hood, the best looking royals here are in closer to the house where the construction clay tends to be and they are on frequent auto irrigation with other small plants.  Foxtails hate this wet soil, they look deficient and scrawny with their own uneven cokebottle shape when they are in the same soil.  I would not plant a royal and a foxtail in the same watering area here as they obviously have different water requirements.  Royals go better in soil that archies, satakentia, and kentiopsis like, that is wet.  Im not sure you can overwater a royal.

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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If your soil drains it's impossible to over water royals, you could leave the hose on them all day they would love it.

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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I concur with @redant

Royals want their water. They're not quite aquatic, but they're awful close.

Howdy @JoanneL!

I honestly don't think you have to score the rootball of a palm the way you might want to with, say, an overgrown Ficus.

The reason is that palm roots don't get larger with time the way dicot tree roots do, so they won't strangle. A palm root is the same size along much of its length. They won't turn into massive underground trunks like some trees do, and they don't split sidewalks, etc., at least not the overwhelming majority of the time.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I’ve accidentally left the hose on both of mine overnight on more than one occasion and they love it...as for the water bill my wife is less enthusiastic lol.

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Well, Joanne, it has been three years since I first wrote to Palm Talk about my Royals. And I am still very much a "seed", and still very much in the learning stage about plants for this new zone, but I will say that all the advice I received from this forum was spot on regarding Royals loving water! My Royals now get LOTS of water and are much, much happier.  Also, and remember I am a "seed", but we have since gotten many more palms, and none have been scored. I agree with other posts that, because of the root structure, palms probably do not need to be scored. And, finally, we wait several months before we fertilize any new palms. We fertilize three times a year, so we just skip the upcoming fertilizer date and fertilize the new palms on the next fertilizer date...make sense?

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On 4/23/2020 at 7:46 AM, NickJames said:

I’m guessing frequent windy conditions during hot dry times also doesn’t help!

That's true, though a nice healthy one in the right place will overcome that.

More water . . . .

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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16 hours ago, MesquiteRetreat said:

We fertilize three times a year, so we just skip the upcoming fertilizer date and fertilize the new palms on the next fertilizer date...make sense?

Your spot on with this kind of thinking =) 

T J 

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my royal gets lots of hose bib leak everytime I turn on the hose to water other palms and plants.  The soil often sinks a bit when I walk on it.  Its about the fattest royal trunk in the local area.  See adirondack chair for scale.  Note the coke bottle shape is very mild.   I think Im not going to worry about all the rain we just had and all the water it gets.

OverwateredRoyal_april2020.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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