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Brian F. Austin

Sabal x Brazoriensis

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Brian F. Austin

I saw a mature brazoria palm at barton springs for the first time and was amazed at it's incredible mass and huge leaves. They almost remind of green bismarcks or a sabal minor on steroids. I thought sabal mexicanas were cool until I saw this Brazoria. For some reason I assumed this ancient hybrid had a small trunk. Not so.

Anybody here growing these? I would love to see more photos of them.

Here's a picture of it... sorry for the quality... it was taken from the car through the fence with the phone. I'll get a close-up next time I'm over there.

 

 

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Edited by Brian F. Austin
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Palm crazy

Man that palm is huge all right love it! :yay: 

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jfrye01@live.com

Beautiful specimen! A friend of mine is growing one in Wichita, it is sending up a flower stalk now...Hope I can grab some seeds this year! :) 

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mdsonofthesouth

I want one and have the perfect spot for one! anyone have a good place to get these???

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Brian F. Austin

Ok I went back to check it out and get some more photos and take home a souvenir :)

Here's the photos of the large tree labeled as a Brazoria Palm, a couple details of it's structure, and some potted plants they had for sale... and the one I picked.

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Ben OK

That's a great souvenir you got there Brian. It's very cool that you found a brazoria that big that wasn't in the wild. Big ones don't seem that common yet, so it's neat to see what all of these smaller specimens that palm lovers are planting will grow up to be.

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Brian F. Austin

Thanks Ben! I'm looking forward to growing it out.

I would love to find a seed source for Brazoria palms. If anybody knows, please message me. My wife's family has land in the Brazos valley and I'd really like to plant some large numbers of these and S. Mexicana in the creek bottoms and along the ponds. It's in zone 8b, but it definitely gets colder there than it does here in Austin.

Here's a fun photo I took today of a s. mexicana

 

 

5DS_0178.jpg

Edited by Brian F. Austin
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Palmensammler

Hi,

I too like to find a source for seeds as it's not affordable to buy plants from the US due to a lot of expensive paperworks needed by the customs.

For seeds it's not a problem.

Eckhard

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Brian F. Austin
On 4/28/2017, 1:06:17, jfrye01@live.com said:

Beautiful specimen! A friend of mine is growing one in Wichita, it is sending up a flower stalk now...Hope I can grab some seeds this year! :) 

Good luck, I'd like to see what the seeds look like. I know they are smaller than s. mexicanas. I saw the photo you posted of his straplings, they look great. Do you have a photo of the flowering plant?

On 5/1/2017, 7:45:46, mdsonofthesouth said:

I want one and have the perfect spot for one! anyone have a good place to get these???

I picked this 5g at barton springs nursery in Austin. They didn't have any 1 gallons or I would've bought all of them :)  They had a few large ones and some greenish s. uresanas as well. They did have s. uresana in 1 gallons... to my eyes they didn't look very blue, but I know they can be variable.

To me it looked like most of the 5gallon brazorias had 2 plants growing in the same pot. I picked the one that just had 1 in it. I didn't want to deal with separating them or having them grow into each other.

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jfrye01@live.com
On 5/12/2017, 11:15:43, Brian F. Austin said:

Good luck, I'd like to see what the seeds look like. I know they are smaller than s. mexicanas. I saw the photo you posted of his straplings, they look great. Do you have a photo of the flowering plant?

I picked this 5g at barton springs nursery in Austin. They didn't have any 1 gallons or I would've bought all of them :)  They had a few large ones and some greenish s. uresanas as well. They did have s. uresana in 1 gallons... to my eyes they didn't look very blue, but I know they can be variable.

To me it looked like most of the 5gallon brazorias had 2 plants growing in the same pot. I picked the one that just had 1 in it. I didn't want to deal with separating them or having them grow into each other.

On 5/12/2017, 11:15:43, Brian F. Austin said:

Good luck, I'd like to see what the seeds look like. I know they are smaller than s. mexicanas. I saw the photo you posted of his straplings, they look great. Do you have a photo of the flowering plant?

I picked this 5g at barton springs nursery in Austin. They didn't have any 1 gallons or I would've bought all of them :)  They had a few large ones and some greenish s. uresanas as well. They did have s. uresana in 1 gallons... to my eyes they didn't look very blue, but I know they can be variable.

To me it looked like most of the 5gallon brazorias had 2 plants growing in the same pot. I picked the one that just had 1 in it. I didn't want to deal with separating them or having them grow into each other.

On 5/1/2017, 7:45:46, mdsonofthesouth said:

I want one and have the perfect spot for one! anyone have a good place to get these???

I took these pictures about a month ago, I'm sure the stalk is huge now! 

17523063_1621146371233668_8482914887391817884126_1621146374567001_66103524538634

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Brian F. Austin

Thanks for the photo J, It's cool that they can flower before they trunk. i've been watching the progress of s. mexicana in the neighborhood pushing up stalks. it's interesting the variability in the lengths. I can't wait to harvest seeds from my favorite mexicanas.

I saw a small trunked palm at Mayfield park the other day that looked out of place among all the tall S. mexicanas around. it looked about like the brazoria above with a split in the middle of the frond. One floppy frond was snapped on the right side. Also it had flowered before. You can see the old and new flower stalks in the photos. It did have a cool color also, little more matte green. Maybe a s. minor lousiana? Anybody care to guess?

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Flow

These are so awesome! But how coldhardy are they really? How do they handle long lasting freezes and moist winters?

I can grow Sabal minor without protection and also T. fortunei most winters. Sabal x brazoriensis looks like the only chance I have to grow a massive fan palm.

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Ivorhooper
On 2017-5-7 14:20:31, Palmensammler said:

Hi,

I too like to find a source for seeds as it's not affordable to buy plants from the US due to a lot of expensive paperworks needed by the customs.

For seeds it's not a problem.

Eckhard

Hi Eckhard, I got a small one sent from palmeperpaket in Germany last winter. 

Might be worth asking them if they still have any.

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jfrye01@live.com
On 5/18/2017, 12:38:16, Brian F. Austin said:

Thanks for the photo J, It's cool that they can flower before they trunk. i've been watching the progress of s. mexicana in the neighborhood pushing up stalks. it's interesting the variability in the lengths. I can't wait to harvest seeds from my favorite mexicanas.

I saw a small trunked palm at Mayfield park the other day that looked out of place among all the tall S. mexicanas around. it looked about like the brazoria above with a split in the middle of the frond. One floppy frond was snapped on the right side. Also it had flowered before. You can see the old and new flower stalks in the photos. It did have a cool color also, little more matte green. Maybe a s. minor lousiana? Anybody care to guess?

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It could very well be S. brazoriensis.  When they are more mature, they become far more costapalmate than when young.  

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Palmensammler

Hello Ivorhooper,

checked their homepage and recognized that they received a new delivery of them. As I will be in Munich in two weeks I'll drive by and pick up one. Thanks for the info, didn't check their page in the last time.

Eckhard

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Ivorhooper
On 2017-5-21 11:39:58, Palmensammler said:

Hello Ivorhooper,

checked their homepage and recognized that they received a new delivery of them. As I will be in Munich in two weeks I'll drive by and pick up one. Thanks for the info, didn't check their page in the last time.

Eckhard

That's good news. Mine was unfazed by winter and starting growing around March time albeit very slowly. Not too bad for the north of England!

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Brian F. Austin

I grabbed a couple more camera phone pics. The trunk shot shows how many boots there are and how crammed together they are. It has a pretty messy look to the trunk, with a bit of a lean, but it is kind of tightly crammed into it's spot with rocks and sago palms around it.

The wide shot of the big palm shows just the tip of the flowering spike above the fronds.

There is a tall S. Mexicana next to it. The Brazoria seems to have a trunk twice as wide, twice as many fronds, and with petioles half the length. They said it's been in the ground ~20 years.  I also got a couple flowering photos from a potted one.

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Edited by Brian F. Austin
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eevans

I bought one of the Brazoria Sabals from Barton Springs Nursery back in the 1990s. It grew in my yard in Austin for about 18 years, and never formed a trunk taller than ~18 inches. It just seemed to get wider over the years, pushing the older leaf bases outward while the bud grew broader but stayed low. It looked just like a shorter version of the specimen at the nursery (I can vouch for it being in that spot for at least 20 years).

The leaves were quite large, like S. mexicana but with shorter petioles. The shape was in between S. minor and S. mexicana (not as flat as the former, not as undulating as the latter). Perhaps the oddest thing about this specimen was the color of the leaf petioles - they always turned a solid, chocolate brown early after emerging. I initially thought it had some disease, but it never seemed to harm the plant. No idea what was going on with that.

Unfortunately I eventually lost this one to the cursed Ox Beetle, along with both of my 24-year old Pindo palms and all 5 of my Windmills.

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Brian F. Austin

Sorry to hear that you lost your palm from the OX Beetle.

That's interesting about the trunk, the one at barton springs nursery has the look that the trunk is expanding and the leaf bases are so densely packed in there it appears that they are folding over each other.

One discrepancy I found about the the Brazorias... I read that the inflorescence is held within the leaves, these at BSN seems to have flowers extended out and above like a s. minor. Check out these photos I pulled online of Brazorias. The trunk sure looks different. If the tree at BSN is 20 yrs old, then these must be ancient. The last photos is from Bob Harms' research.

http://w3.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/Sabal/Brazoria.html#infl

 

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GregVirginia7

Any Brazoria fans have any advise for growing one in my area? Are they similar in hardiness to a Trachy? It's a slow grower and I can see the leaves are going to be huge...just started taking off this summer.image.thumb.jpg.b75b017022a465d851f7a23c

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Matt N- Dallas

I've found these to be very slow growing.  In 2003 I planted six, 5 gal size plants all from the same seed batch. They are also slightly variable in terms of leaf shape, color and even cold hardiness.  I had one that experienced cold damage from the Feb 2011 cold blast, the rest were not affected.  They seem to be more cold hardy than s. mexicana, but much slower.  After 14 years of in ground growth, the two largest (that received consistent irrigation) have about 1' of trunk.  There are two very large ones at the TX Discovery Garden (Fair Park Dallas) that have been there for decades.  

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djcary

Here's two brazoriensis's at the JC Raulston Arboretum (Raleigh) that, according to their website, have been in the ground for 7-8 years. The one is not looking too good. It and some other Sabals near it have some scale (I think) and probably got some damage from last winter. I'm sure it'd also appreciate some more water. The other one is healthy and is a nice looking specimen. However, I didn't see any signs of inflorescences on it like the first one has. It's located in a different area that gets afternoon shade so that's probably the main reason the leaves are bigger and it's doing better. I'd estimate that they both have about ~1.5 foot trunk.

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Edited by djcary
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GregVirginia7

Since the terrible, long and devastating duration of the freeze in Texas and all the human suffering, property and infrastructure damage, I for one can’t imagine what it will be like to get water pipes, interior plumbing, walls, floors, grocery stores, etc. up and running. What a disaster...would like to do some research on the 1989 freeze and see how recoveries happened.

At the same time, there’s much discussion about the palm population...though most everything has taken a serious hit, it seems the palmates get better assessments so far. I have a Sabal Brazoria in my 7a/b backyard and since this trunking Sabal is a native of Texas, I was wondering how they did in this ominous test from the arctic. I’ve seen reports in this forum on palms I’ve never heard of but have missed any reports on the Brazoria. Just wondering how they did...hope all those affected by this come out better than expected and that frozen pipes were at a minimum. That’s some damage I can’t imagine having to fix...

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bananaman
2 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Since the terrible, long and devastating duration of the freeze in Texas and all the human suffering, property and infrastructure damage, I for one can’t imagine what it will be like to get water pipes, interior plumbing, walls, floors, grocery stores, etc. up and running. What a disaster...would like to do some research on the 1989 freeze and see how recoveries happened.

At the same time, there’s much discussion about the palm population...though most everything has taken a serious hit, it seems the palmates get better assessments so far. I have a Sabal Brazoria in my 7a/b backyard and since this trunking Sabal is a native of Texas, I was wondering how they did in this ominous test from the arctic. I’ve seen reports in this forum on palms I’ve never heard of but have missed any reports on the Brazoria. Just wondering how they did...hope all those affected by this come out better than expected and that frozen pipes were at a minimum. That’s some damage I can’t imagine having to fix...

This is the Brazoria palmetto mentioned earlier in this thread at Barton Springs Nursery. I took this photo today — it looks very good, and much better than the S. mexicana it’s next to, which has significant burn (but should be fine). Neither were protected.

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GregVirginia7

It does look good...I understand real damage can be delayed in its effects but the one here doesn’t seem to be hiding any surprises...my Brazoria had a terrible first winter...lost all its fronds and had spear pull...gave it up for dead but treated it with a dose of copper fungicide and peroxide and in about a month a spear began to emerge...guess the cold hardier palms should be given a chance even if the damage seems catastrophic...

FCDFA67A-38B4-4050-9C9D-AEE1354402AB.thumb.jpeg.7111153235f67658c8249d947b2c633e.jpegHere it is today with winter cover...I think I’ll let it go more into our winter here since it is far more established and the actual Texas Brazorias would appear to be holding their own which I hope is the case for the entire area...Thanks for the picture...hope it repeats itself everywhere and that must be a really old one, too.  Unrelated...but I see a snake in your profile pic. We’ve noticed under our south facing, sun all day in the winter front stoop many small Virginia Brown Snakes coming out to sun themselves this February...cute little reptiles...was cleaning out some leaves today in the front bed and blew a 5” little guy into the driveway...it’s barely 40 degrees F. and there it was...picked the cute little guy up and put it back in the warm bed to soak up some more sun...they really seem to like that environment as they seem to be multiplying...so far so good but if one ends up in the house all hell will break loose.

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Collectorpalms

Here is a Sabal Brazoria after it saw between 2 and 4*F. It is located on property along the Brazos River in Brazos county. I planted it so I can vouch for it as being Sabal Brazoria, I planted it in 2007 from seeds I grew and personally collected. It did better than Trachycarpus Fortunei. 

It has about 2 feet of trunk and has never been watered after being established. It should continue to grow upwards. 

If there is much interest in this palm It sends up seeds yearly. I can grow them. I would like to trade for other cold hardy palms.

Because Sabal minor grows along with Sabal Brazoria. There may be some out there that have the wrong thing. 

The first picture is Sabal Brazoria, the second picture is of a Sabal minor that is same age and planted at the same time.

 

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Edited by Collectorpalms

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tlow
5 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Here is a Sabal Brazoria after it saw between 2 and 4*F. It is located on property along the Brazos River in Brazos county. I planted it so I can vouch for it as being Sabal Brazoria, I planted it in 2007 from seeds I grew and personally collected. It did better than Trachycarpus Fortunei. 

It has about 2 feet of trunk and has never been watered after being established. It should continue to grow upwards. 

If there is much interest in this palm It sends up seeds yearly. I can grow them. I would like to trade for other cold hardy palms.

Because Sabal minor grows along with Sabal Brazoria. There may be some out there that have the wrong thing. 

The first picture is Sabal Brazoria, the second picture is of a Sabal minor that is same age and planted at the same time.

 

E9331813-1835-4C35-92AC-A50639B6B462.jpeg

256B054B-AE1F-4CFD-A96B-F74052F675D1.jpeg

I just got four of them, but certainly will make room if you end up getting some seedlings.  They def look different at they age they are at from S. Minor seedlings, and really most other seedlings I have.  Looking forward to watching mine get larger.

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teddytn

I’m so tempted to make a drive south to a nursery like that, if I lived any closer I would have already left. I’ve never seen one in person, but the more pictures I see of Brazoria’s they’re fast becoming one of my favorite palm tree!!!!

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ColumbusPalm

How are everyone's Brazorias doing? I really adore this palm so am curious how they look now during growing season after a rough winter. 

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GregVirginia7
10 hours ago, ColumbusPalm said:

How are everyone's Brazorias doing? I really adore this palm so am curious how they look now during growing season after a rough winter. 

Doing great...been in ground for several years and this is its most active year...3 new fronds! and it’s gaining on its trunk as well...8 inches...:laugh2:...going to turn it loose this winter and add protection only as the arctic and jet stream demand.

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ColumbusPalm
1 hour ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Doing great...been in ground for several years and this is its most active year...3 new fronds! and it’s gaining on its trunk as well...8 inches...:laugh2:...going to turn it loose this winter and add protection only as the arctic and jet stream demand.

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Thanks for the update! It looks awesome. Such a good color. 

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Will

I have found an Article online which says that it´s the most cold hardy trunking Sabal out there and that it is a cross between minor and palmetto. Is it similar to Sabal birmingham?

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DallasPalms
On 6/19/2021 at 10:01 PM, ColumbusPalm said:

How are everyone's Brazorias doing? I really adore this palm so am curious how they look now during growing season after a rough winter. 

We have just a few brazoria types around here. The one I saw most sat on city property. Uri took us down to 2f and it was the most badly burned of the Sabals I like around here.. just ugly!@$% especially because of the way the fronds sit...

I would have expected her to grow back possibly. but they took her down... another which I thought to be the nicest palm in town was taken down also... there are a handful in have passed and havent seen new growth even on thick trunks... they're either slower or not as hardy. I've seen a lot of Trachys that took several months and then put put leaves but the sabal types that are hardy recoup well in Dallas heat @ Mexicanas Palmettos and Dominguensis 

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Jimhardy

I had one at my old place here in southeast Iowa,this is an old pic of it...

I have not lived at this place for 3 summers....its still alive with no protection of any kind

since I moved!

 

<a href="https://imgur.com/NJBNYFX"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/NJBNYFX.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

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Jimhardy

maybe this works?

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Edited by Jimhardy
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Swolte

Here's some Brazoria from a buddy of mine post-Uri. They generally did better than Palmetto.

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Will

Recently received some fresh seeds. After 3 weeks they started to germinate.

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That's the mother plant where the seeds came from.sabalbrazaugust2020_1.jpg.39496f3bd62c3f367220ca2b9b2b093d.jpg

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Jimhardy

I forgot to add that this palm I left at the old house has seen below

zero temps the last few years and -15F this year...will have to see if it made

it but it was alive last summer.

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tlow

So I happened to be driving by Barton Springs on my way back to DFW two weeks ago, and stopped by hoping, hoping there would be some Brazos seedlings, but alas, nothing yet.  They are not ready.  I said I would take not ready at the same price and answer was still no, lol.  I will say, the main specimen we keep looking at in pictures is breathtaking.. I stood there for a few minutes just admiring the size and just how incredible it looked.  I'm sure they were wondering what was wrong with me but that's OK.

IMG_20220303_090027.thumb.JPG.aa7e2bf098ab75446f18bcbbcf3de344.JPG
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Here is my largest one that just came a few weeks ago as 3G.  Absolutely beautiful with the latest fronds already just wide and huge.  Truly going to be a stunner on my front retaining wall sabal row.

IMG_20220227_132239.thumb.JPG.619b385c5e0651b0a3176801133e2b48.JPG

I have four more throughout the property that are much smaller, planted last year as strap leaf seedlings, and getting another 3G next week.  So in total I'll have six of these!  Will be fun to watch them put on some size this year.

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Will

How hardy are they as strap leaf seedlings? I am expecting mine to get their first leaf by mid May. Can i plant them outside in a zone 7b/8a already or should i wait for them to get a little bigger?

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      By GoatLockerGuns
      I have a plethera of extra germinated Sabal sp. 'Praha' seeds to give away.  I had near 100% germination from the seeds I collected at the Praha, Texas site back in late February.  If you are not familiar with the ongoing Sabal sp. 'Praha' discussion, see the Palmtalk thread below:
      The extra germinated seeds I have are from the palm I labeled Sabal sp. 'Praha' #5 in the aforementioned post.  It is the palm currently thought to be the oldest at the Praha site by most who visit there (the rest are probably volunteers).  Reports of these palms in the Praha area go back to the 19th century.  In a nutshell, there is some mystery regarding what species of Sabal these palms actually are.  The seeds produced are too small to be Sabal mexicana, and larger than most Sabal palmetto specimens.  I am willing to ship for free to the lower 48; just agree to give them a good home.  PM me if interested (first come, first serve).
    • teddytn
      By teddytn
      This may seem odd. Everyone pushes the envelope with the palms they plant, like how far north can you grow a coconut palm etc. What about the opposite? If I moved to Hawaii of course I would jump both feet in with all the tropical palms I could get my hands on, but I would definitely plant all the cold hardy palms I’m a fan of now too. To me it would be cool to watch the growth rate of a cold hardy palm in a tropical environment. Anyone have sabal minor, sabal palmetto growing in paradise? I would love to see pics!!!
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