Mystery Tree Aloe

[RichAZ]

I purchased a 5 gal plant at a local nursery because it looked kind of cool and I like tree aloes.  It was marked "Aloe Bainesesii Hybrid - Neanderthaloe".  There is nothing about a "Neanderthaloe" that I could find online and Waterwise Botanicals (the grower) has not yet responded to my question about what kind of mischief Bainesesii got into.  Based on the narrow-ish trunk and thinner, recurved leaves along with the mention of orange/apricot flowers on the label, I'm thinking this is an Aloe Tongaensis. I've attached a pic for the experts.  What do you think it is?  Thanks very much for the help!

[Palm crazy]

Rich this tree aloe should do good for you, its very hardy down to low to mid 20’s and has a nice flower color in my opinion. I would love to find one up here in WA.  Anyways here is a link to the name… your looking for…. pretty new to the trade…  https://www.waterwisebotanicals.com/aloe-bainesii-hyb.-neanaerthaloe.html

[Palm crazy]

5 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

Rich this tree aloe should do good for you, its very hardy down to low to mid 20’s and has a nice flower color in my opinion. I would love to find one up here in WA.  Anyways here is a link to the name… your looking for…. pretty new to the trade…  https://www.waterwisebotanicals.com/aloe-bainesii-hyb.-neanaerthaloe.html

Whoops!  I see you already found the LInk…LOL! 

[RichAZ]

Thanks for the fast response.  I can definitely say that it seems to be enjoying Arizona so far.  About a month in the ground with half-day sun and zero leaf burn.  It's pushing lots of new growth very quickly.  I think this one likes water.

[Gonzer]

I picked up a dozen of these for work from Waterwise and they are very steady growers. Like you, my question regarding parentage went unanswered.

[Peter]

Aloe tongaensis

[RichAZ]

Thought that might be the case and I'm good with that.  Seems like a good choice for my garden.  Thanks for the feedback.

[raimeiken]

On 4/24/2017 at 2:51 PM, RichAZ said:

I purchased a 5 gal plant at a local nursery because it looked kind of cool and I like tree aloes.  It was marked "Aloe Bainesesii Hybrid - Neanderthaloe".  There is nothing about a "Neanderthaloe" that I could find online and Waterwise Botanicals (the grower) has not yet responded to my question about what kind of mischief Bainesesii got into.  Based on the narrow-ish trunk and thinner, recurved leaves along with the mention of orange/apricot flowers on the label, I'm thinking this is an Aloe Tongaensis. I've attached a pic for the experts.  What do you think it is?  Thanks very much for the help!

Any update on how this is doing now? Did it handle our summer heat well? I'm thinking of picking one up. 

[Merlyn]

Tongaensis looks like a really neat tree aloe, does anyone know if they are capable of handling Central Florida rains?  I have a "high and dry" area that I plan to plant out a couple of Aloe "Hercules," but I have space for at least one more aloe tree.

[Tracy]

5 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Tongaensis looks like a really neat tree aloe, does anyone know if they are capable of handling Central Florida rains?  I have a "high and dry" area that I plan to plant out a couple of Aloe "Hercules," but I have space for at least one more aloe tree.

According to PlantZAfrica, you may have a chance with it:  http://pza.sanbi.org/aloidendron

The Tonga tree aloe forms branched trees of up to 8 m, with terminal rosettes of recurved, dull green leaves. The curved, yellowish orange flowers are drooping (pendulous), borne in short, dense, erect, few-branched inflorescences and are pollinated by sunbirds. It only grows in sand forest, in warm, humid, tropical/subtropical conditions, on sandy soil. The Tonga tree aloe is restricted to the sand forests at Kosi Bay in northern KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa and adjacent territory of southern Mozambique.

No personal experience trying to grow this species myself though.

[Tracy]

On 4/25/2017 at 4:03 AM, Gonzer said:

I picked up a dozen of these for work from Waterwise and they are very steady growers. Like you, my question regarding parentage went unanswered.

 

On 4/24/2017 at 2:51 PM, RichAZ said:

I purchased a 5 gal plant at a local nursery because it looked kind of cool and I like tree aloes.

Same question as above.... how is it doing and what does it look like at this point.  Knowing how fast my Hercules hybrid (Aloidendron barberae x dichotomum) has grown, I imagine that these have gained a great deal of size in 2.5 years.  I know that as a young plant, my Hercules was doubling its mass every year for the first 5 years in the ground.

[raimeiken]

15 hours ago, Tracy said:

 

Same question as above.... how is it doing and what does it look like at this point.  Knowing how fast my Hercules hybrid (Aloidendron barberae x dichotomum) has grown, I imagine that these have gained a great deal of size in 2.5 years.  I know that as a young plant, my Hercules was doubling its mass every year for the first 5 years in the ground.

They'll do well for you in SoCal. Theres a recent post in The Aloe Underground group on facebook from someone in Cali, showing 10 year progression of these aloes there.

 

I was more concerned with our high temps here in AZ if itll handle full sun here or need some shade. I've toasted and rotted a few aloes here recently that needs a shadier condition like Africana and capitata

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, raimeiken said:

They'll do well for you in SoCal. Theres a recent post in The Aloe Underground group on facebook from someone in Cali, showing 10 year progression of these aloes there.

 

I was more concerned with our high temps here in AZ if itll handle full sun here or need some shade. I've toasted and rotted a few aloes here recently that needs a shadier condition like Africana and capitata

@raimeiken Going on my experience putting my big Hurcules in a full sun position, i'd say plant in shade, at least where the sun won't hit it from about 11am-Sunset during the summer.  My Hurcules looked great for awhile, only suffering some minor leaf bleaching during the hottest part of the summer. Still, wasn't growing much despite watering it occasionally.  While working in the front yard one morning in July, i noticed that it was a bit loose when pulling some weeds nearby. Turned out the base had been sun damaged and rotted. Cut the top to re-root, and tossed the rest.  All my other Hurcules ( potted ) sit under the canopy of the Mesquite in my Backyard. Those look great and have been growing nicely.  Had a young Aloe X " Medusa",  which is supposedly Tongaensis ( Neanderthaloe might be Waterwise'es own name for Medusa.. perhaps?? ) but lost it after placing in full sun here... In that case, i might have cooked it in it's pot. Might have done better in the ground, but, like my experience w/Hurcules.. thats debatable.

[raimeiken]

22 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

@raimeiken Going on my experience putting my big Hurcules in a full sun position, i'd say plant in shade, at least where the sun won't hit it from about 11am-Sunset during the summer.  My Hurcules looked great for awhile, only suffering some minor leaf bleaching during the hottest part of the summer. Still, wasn't growing much despite watering it occasionally.  While working in the front yard one morning in July, i noticed that it was a bit loose when pulling some weeds nearby. Turned out the base had been sun damaged and rotted. Cut the top to re-root, and tossed the rest.  All my other Hurcules ( potted ) sit under the canopy of the Mesquite in my Backyard. Those look great and have been growing nicely.  Had a young Aloe X " Medusa",  which is supposedly Tongaensis ( Neanderthaloe might be Waterwise'es own name for Medusa.. perhaps?? ) but lost it after placing in full sun here... In that case, i might have cooked it in it's pot. Might have done better in the ground, but, like my experience w/Hurcules.. thats debatable.

Interesting, I've seen many Hercules in full sun planted around the valley doing very well and same with aloe dichotoma. 

 

I picked up a 5gal aloe tongaensis yesterday and the spot I'm thinking of putting it in is full sun. I'll try to protect its trunk the first couple of summers to be safe.

 

But yeah planted in group vs in pot would be better. I had a big capitata last summer in full sun in a big clay pot and it melted.

[Silas_Sancona]

16 minutes ago, raimeiken said:

Interesting, I've seen many Hercules in full sun planted around the valley doing very well and same with aloe dichotoma. 

 

I picked up a 5gal aloe tongaensis yesterday and the spot I'm thinking of putting it in is full sun. I'll try to protect its trunk the first couple of summers to be safe.

 

But yeah planted in group vs in pot would be better. I had a big capitata last summer in full sun in a big clay pot and it melted.

Interesting.. Can't say i've seen any of either species planted around Chandler.  Only larger Hurcules / Dichos ive seen were at Desert Botanical and theirs are either under tree / man made canopy. The biggest Hurcules, located by the Euphorbia display, do sit exposed to full afternoon sun however.. Those things are so big that i'm sure that position doesn't bother them at all. 

Largest Dichotoma i have seen anywhere in the region ( at Plants for the southwest, in Tucson ) is also growing under shade canopy as you walk into the Nursery. Tohono Chul does have a nice Hurc. planted in full sun though.

Definitely doesn't hurt to try in sun, protecting the trunk as you mentioned for the first couple summers. Your experience may be  completely different than mine. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[raimeiken]

Desert foothills nursery at cave creek and carefree highway have a lot of dichotoma planted in full sun. If you look at their photos on google you'll see them on display. Theres also a couple at the cactus garden at the Phoenician resort that are I think in western exposure.

[Silas_Sancona]

17 minutes ago, raimeiken said:

Desert foothills nursery at cave creek and carefree highway have a lot of dichotoma planted in full sun. If you look at their photos on google you'll see them on display. Theres also a couple at the cactus garden at the Phoenician resort that are I think in western exposure.

Ahh, good to know..  Haven't been up that way.  Will check out their pictures.

[raimeiken]

Here's some of the ones at Desert foothills garden nursery on display. They have smaller ones planted in the back of the property last time I was there that are for sale I think.

[Silas_Sancona]

5 minutes ago, raimeiken said:

Here's some of the ones at Desert foothills garden nursery on display. They have smaller ones planted in the back of the property last time I was there that are for sale I think.

Holy Mother of Aloe Those are huge!!  Thoughts on how long they have been there?

[raimeiken]

Here's some pictures that I saw in that aloe group on facebook of these Aloe Tongaensis planted in Sunset ave in San Diego's Mission hills neighborhood. These aren't my photos, so I'm not taking credit for them.  5 and 10 years progress.

2009

 

2014

 

and today 2019

[raimeiken]

2 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Holy Mother of Aloe Those are huge!!  Thoughts on how long they have been there?

not sure how old the nursery is or how old the plants are when they got them. Those trees looks to me like they're over a hundred years old LOL 

 

I suppose I should ask next time I visit.

Edited December 6, 2019 by raimeiken

[Silas_Sancona]

Just now, raimeiken said:

not sure how old the nursery is or how old the plants are when they got them. Those trees looks to me like they're over a hundred years old LOL 

Wouldn't doubt it.. Esp. dichotoma.  Next time you're visiting, tell them there's a nice, wide center street island down in Chandler they can donate them to, Almost Christmas you know.. ( Ha Ha! )  Tongaensis grows pretty quickly, as seen in the last pic. you posted from San Diego.  Santa Barbra Orchid Estate has some huge ones years ago when i visited.

[Josue Diaz]

2 hours ago, raimeiken said:

Here's some pictures that I saw in that aloe group on facebook of these Aloe Tongaensis planted in Sunset ave in San Diego's Mission hills neighborhood. These aren't my photos, so I'm not taking credit for them.  5 and 10 years progress.

2009

 

2014

 

and today 2019

sweet mother of God those are beautiful! and fast! Kind of rethinking the placement of mine...

[Merlyn]

23 hours ago, Tracy said:

According to PlantZAfrica, you may have a chance with it:  http://pza.sanbi.org/aloidendron

The Tonga tree aloe forms branched trees of up to 8 m, with terminal rosettes of recurved, dull green leaves. The curved, yellowish orange flowers are drooping (pendulous), borne in short, dense, erect, few-branched inflorescences and are pollinated by sunbirds. It only grows in sand forest, in warm, humid, tropical/subtropical conditions, on sandy soil. The Tonga tree aloe is restricted to the sand forests at Kosi Bay in northern KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa and adjacent territory of southern Mozambique.

No personal experience trying to grow this species myself though.

KwaZulu-Natal gets about 40 inches of rain per year, so it's probably a good option to try here in FL.  The biggest problem here with most aloes is the huge amount of rain (50-60 inches) and supposedly the rain in the winter cold.  I've been told to not put aloes in the ground here due to rot problems.  I hit 25F 2 winters ago, which would cause severe damage to Barberae and possibly Tongaensis too.  Some of the other ones like Maculata are apparently safe here.  I've been into agaves, palms and cycads and don't have much experience at all with aloes, so I'll probably try a Tongaensis if I can find one! 

[raimeiken]

I went back this morning and snapped a few pics. The trees are in full bloom but unfortunately they're covered in frost cloth.

 

 

And here's the smaller ones they have in the back for sale. 

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, raimeiken said:

I went back this morning and snapped a few pics. The trees are in full bloom but unfortunately they're covered in frost cloth.

 

 

And here's the smaller ones they have in the back for sale. 

It would be interesting to know how long it took them to grow the sale ones to that size.  I'm sure that there is a decent market in the valley for them even though the price has to justify the time and real estate invested to grow them. 

[raimeiken]

I dont think they grow them. They probably got there from somewhere else and planted on site? I'll ask next time I go. They had smaller ones in 10gal pots for $300. 

[Josue Diaz]

Is this dichotoma? sure looks like it. Yellow flowers on it now. 

[Tracy]

On 12/12/2019 at 4:31 PM, Josue Diaz said:

Is this dichotoma? sure looks like it. Yellow flowers on it now. 

I was perplexed looking at it.  Leaves look darker green than I would expect for dichotoma and I would have expected it to be much thicker for it's height.  Yellow flowers throw me off though.  I don't know what it is.  Where is it growing Josue?

[Josue Diaz]

3 hours ago, Tracy said:

I was perplexed looking at it.  Leaves look darker green than I would expect for dichotoma and I would have expected it to be much thicker for it's height.  Yellow flowers throw me off though.  I don't know what it is.  Where is it growing Josue?

it's in Fresno at a place called Garden of the Sun. I spoke to the people who maintain it and they know very little about the collection. What they told me is this use to all be a private collection which was donated to them.  Judging by the size of a lot of the plants, these specimens are pretty old. The Aloe vanbalenii in the first photo is even sporting a short trunk

[Tracy]

On 4/24/2017 at 2:51 PM, RichAZ said:

I purchased a 5 gal plant at a local nursery because it looked kind of cool and I like tree aloes.  It was marked "Aloe Bainesesii Hybrid - Neanderthaloe".  There is nothing about a "Neanderthaloe" that I could find online and Waterwise Botanicals (the grower) has not yet responded to my question about what kind of mischief Bainesesii got into.  Based on the narrow-ish trunk and thinner, recurved leaves along with the mention of orange/apricot flowers on the label, I'm thinking this is an Aloe Tongaensis. I've attached a pic for the experts.  What do you think it is?  Thanks very much for the help!

So how is this Aloidendron doing now?  Any updated photos would be great too, as I would expect some significant growth since you last shared photos. 

[raimeiken]

Was quite a bad summer here in AZ and lost quite a few aloes in my collection. The aloe Tongaensis I planted in afternoon shade was doing good until the last stretch of the 115f weeks. The two branches rotted up top so I had to decapitate it. Hopefully it'll branch out again.