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Palm crazy

Three Sabal palms in Seattle

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Palm crazy

Not my photo but found on the web. This garden in West Seattle is famous for its Sabal etonia, S. causarium, and S. minor. 

 

 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

That doesn't look like a sabal causarium. 

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Jdiaz31089

I remember pictures of that garden from the cloudforest cafe forums. I haven't checked in in several years but that's a great regional forum with lots of knowledgeable growers on the West Coast. There are some posters there growing palms aso far north as salt spring island and British Columbia along the coast. Trachycarpus, butia, trithrinax, jubaea, phoenix, sabal... and lots of other exotics.

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Palm crazy

Hey Joe, it really is a sabal causarium. Maybe they don’t get as big as in heat loving places like TX. The owner keeps it trimmed up so people can walk around it on the sidewalk. The picture above is from last summer, 2016.

Hi Josue, I haven’t been on the Cloud forest in a few years, can’t even remember my password…LOL! Not to many people post there on the palm board, but a lot of people still read it.  There are some amazing garden from Seattle to S.S. BC their all in 8b/9a, I’m stuck in 8a, but my summer are much more humid than theirs, LOL! 

Here are some more pics of the same palm after a really bad winter in 2013. 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Palm crazy
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Palm crazy

I do have one small (baby) sabal burmudana in my garden, but thats the only one I have. So far doing good for me and produced two leaves a year, LOL! 

Edited by Palm crazy

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ChrisA

Great!  It's inspiring to see such a large Sabal in a Northwestern Climate.  I wonder how that palm would look in my high desert 8a environment? If I could just punt 3 months of the year (December, January and February) I could grow many more types of palm to maturity.  What low's has this Causarium seen?

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Palm crazy
18 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Great!  It's inspiring to see such a large Sabal in a Northwestern Climate.  I wonder how that palm would look in my high desert 8a environment? If I could just punt 3 months of the year (December, January and February) I could grow many more types of palm to maturity.  What low's has this Causarium seen?

I am sure it has seen low 20’s but the owner did say once he got down to 17F which is his lowest in the pass 25 years. So solid 8b, but most winters are 9a.  If I was you I would try all kinds of Sabal and brahea too. 

 

Also here is another exotic palm in the same garden with the owner ( John ) for scale. Brahea edulis guadalupe.  This palm was planted a long time ago as 15 gallon. Now has a trunk. Pretty exotic for this far north. 

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Palm crazy

Also that photo above is from 2010 (only one I have ) so it much bigger today. 

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Jdiaz31089
2 hours ago, Palm crazy said:

Hi Josue, I haven’t been on the Cloud forest in a few years, can’t even remember my password…LOL! Not to many people post there on the palm board, but a lot of people still read it.  There are some amazing garden from Seattle to S.S. BC their all in 8b/9a, I’m stuck in 8a, but my summer are much more humid than theirs, LOL! 

Same here! I should try to find my password, I'm sure it's written down somewhere. The Pacific coast is really mild compared to the Atlantic coast. There are some very large, century-old phoenix canariensis as far north as Arcata, Eureka and Crescent City. I think Brookings, Coos Bay, North Bend and other coastal towns in Oregon might have some old canariensis and washingtonia as well. Here's a link with pictures showing even an archontophoenix and Syagrus in Brooking! The ocean influence really does help regulate temperatures - both in summer and winter.

 

Coos Bay is about 43 degrees north of the equator. Try getting any of those species to survive even the mildest of microclimates at 43 degrees north along the Atlantic (just about where Portland, Maine is). 

 

http://www.cloudforest.com/northwest/forum/20102924.html

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Palm crazy

Thanks Man!

That was a great thread on Exotic’s & Palm’s in Oregon.  For sure the most northern growing Syagrus,  Archontophoenix, and Phoenix in North America. It would be awesome to see what they look like today.  Western WA is 85% marine, the other 15% is when the wind blows from the east and makes us either hot or cold depending on the time of year. 

 

 

 

Edited by Palm crazy
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ChrisA

Great Brahea edulis.  I wish my all time low was around 17.  I think there have been 1 or 2 winters that only got that cold in the last 30 years or so.  The warmest low temperature if I remember the records correctly for Albuquerque was 19. We've never had a 9a or higher winter.  We've had very many 8a, a smattering of 8b, and all too many 7b down to 6a within that period of time.  The record low is -17F, I believe in 1971. There were additional winters in the late 60's which got nearly that cold as well.

 

I have planted a Sabal Birmingham which has handled this past winter very well. I covered it with a Styrofoam cooler on about 10 of the coldest nights to protect it.  Also have a Sabal uresana which was covered with a plastic, unheated greenhouse for the winter. It suffered only some minor leaf-tip burning. Planning on trying a Brahea armata as well as SailorBold has had good success with this palm in this climate.

 

Are there any photos of Sabal palmetto in the NW in a zone 8a?  I know they are fond of summer heat (which I have in abundance), and are also fond of water (which I don't have in abundance).  What other species of Sabal can you find in the NW?  Thanks for sharing.

 

-Chris

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Palm crazy

I got down to 12F three time one winter and the warmest winter for me was 28F. Not bad for 8a I think, LOL!  

Sounds like you know what you’re doing with protection techniques and growing hardy heat loving palms. I think your climate and SaliorBold are pretty close so I would grow what he’s trying. 

About 12- 15 years ago there were several people that got large mature Sabal palmetto ( 10’-14’ trunks) from FL, but they all died I think a few years later in a really bad winter. I know one smaller one in Oregon that was in the ground for 10 years and only had 5’ of trunk, that one died too. Fast forward today and their are some new and old palm growers in WA and BC that are trying palmetto again, but much smaller like 5 gallons. So far they have all done well. Sorry I couldn’t fine any large ones on the net. And a lot of those people are also trying… some of the hardy sabals from Plants Delight. 

Oh!  BTW Seattle had it first 100F ever, two years ago, My record is 104F… LOL! Mild here but not a lot of heat. 

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DCA_Palm_Fan

awesome thread!  Great to see so many great palms doing well that far north! 

I wonder what the difference is up there between your zone 8A and VA beach zone 8A where sabal palmetto thrive away from the ocean and last for decades. Va beach occasionally has cold snaps into the teens even rarely low teens (RARE).   Perhaps its the much hotter summers there? 

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Palm crazy

I think heat make all the difference, with sabal palmetto. 

Edited by Palm crazy

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jfrye01@live.com
7 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Great Brahea edulis.  I wish my all time low was around 17.  I think there have been 1 or 2 winters that only got that cold in the last 30 years or so.  The warmest low temperature if I remember the records correctly for Albuquerque was 19. We've never had a 9a or higher winter.  We've had very many 8a, a smattering of 8b, and all too many 7b down to 6a within that period of time.  The record low is -17F, I believe in 1971. There were additional winters in the late 60's which got nearly that cold as well.

 

I have planted a Sabal Birmingham which has handled this past winter very well. I covered it with a Styrofoam cooler on about 10 of the coldest nights to protect it.  Also have a Sabal uresana which was covered with a plastic, unheated greenhouse for the winter. It suffered only some minor leaf-tip burning. Planning on trying a Brahea armata as well as SailorBold has had good success with this palm in this climate.

 

Are there any photos of Sabal palmetto in the NW in a zone 8a?  I know they are fond of summer heat (which I have in abundance), and are also fond of water (which I don't have in abundance).  What other species of Sabal can you find in the NW?  Thanks for sharing.

Seems very similar to our climate up here in Wichita. Record low is around -17F...I know of Sabal minor and rhapidophyllum (of course) growing here unprotected, along with Sabal birmingham, S. louisiana, S. brazoria, and most shocking of all, Sabal palmetto.  

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jfrye01@live.com

Seems very similar to our climate up here in Wichita. Record low is around -17F...I know of Sabal minor and rhapidophyllum (of course) growing here unprotected, along with Sabal birmingham, S. louisiana, S. brazoria, and most shocking of all, Sabal palmetto. 

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jfrye01@live.com

Wow, I totally messed up that formatting...anyway, quote ChrisA's latest post...:blush:

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ChrisA

Yes, that would seem pretty similar to your climate as far as extremes go. I may differ in that I do not have many days which stay below freezing.  This year there weren't any days where the max was less than 35 degrees this winter. 

 

I can't help but keep returning to this thread to drool over the Brahea edulis. Jealousy is such an awful thing....  :violin:

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nick206

The garden is across from bayview park in magnolia, not west Seattle. Either way here is an update. All photos taken today 3/31/2017. 

 

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Palm crazy

Nick thanks for all the update pics! Glad everything is looking fabulous! Do you have any other pics from Seattle or Tacoma? Some time this year or maybe it has all ready been published? There is a fantastic palm garden in Tacoma ( Browns point ) that will be in HPI ( hardy palm international), I’m not a member so I won’t be able to see it, but if you do that is one garden I would love to see. I am hoping to see it sometime late summer. Lots of exotic and really tall palms. 

I saw so many gardens in the Seattle area with Alan (Alon) being my guide that I forgot what part of Seattle I was in… Magnolia is a very mild spot for sure. Thanks again.

Edited by Palm crazy

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nick206

No problem, Glad to share. I posted a group of Jubaea in the Washington part arboretum from last June. I also went by there yesterday but it was too crowded for me to stay and get good pictures. They are all looking healthy and growing. Some of the young ones still had their leaves wrapped up from the winter. Ill go back on a quiet day during the week in a month or two and get some pictures. I have some pics from jungle fever exotics back in August, they have a few sizable Butia. I don't know if I posted them or not. There are two more places I know of, one near me and one downtown. The one downtown has a Jubaea and the one near me has a Butia. Its hard the get pictures of them because they are understandably kind of tucked away. They are both about the size of the Butia in that last post.

Im not a member either. Is this the garden you're talking about?

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3004272,-122.4391304,3a,59.6y,324.96h,80.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmOzn8Qz6kJoALjuwCQUrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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Palm crazy
38 minutes ago, nick206 said:

No problem, Glad to share. I posted a group of Jubaea in the Washington part arboretum from last June. I also went by there yesterday but it was too crowded for me to stay and get good pictures. They are all looking healthy and growing. Some of the young ones still had their leaves wrapped up from the winter. Ill go back on a quiet day during the week in a month or two and get some pictures. I have some pics from jungle fever exotics back in August, they have a few sizable Butia. I don't know if I posted them or not. There are two more places I know of, one near me and one downtown. The one downtown has a Jubaea and the one near me has a Butia. Its hard the get pictures of them because they are understandably kind of tucked away. They are both about the size of the Butia in that last post.

Im not a member either. Is this the garden you're talking about?

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3004272,-122.4391304,3a,59.6y,324.96h,80.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmOzn8Qz6kJoALjuwCQUrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Yeah that was some amazing pics you took of the Jubaea’s…. http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/50340-jubaea-collection-seattle/#comment-768597

I haven’t visited Jungle Fever in probably 10 years…. so please do show pictures Of Jerry place, when you get a minute, Thanks! 

Yes that is the place I was talking about, have you ever visited that garden? The owner and wife are artist and Vladimir came to my garden back in 2005 with the palm society members. It been a long time since I’ve been there but the last time I talk to him, he said that the garden has had a big makeover and I need to come see it. His Butia is like 25- 30 years old and is huge I have heard. 

I envy those solid 8b, Puget Sound Gardens! 

Edited by Palm crazy

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Looking good.  I am surprised to see sabals (non dwarfs) growing to that size in the PNW. 

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Chester B

I just found out about a large palmetto growing in Silverton, Oregon just outside Salem.  I wasn't able to go and see it but was told by the owner it has around 10' of trunk if I remember correctly.  3 winters ago during our really bad (top 5 worst all time) it saw 6F at their location, and I was told they had mass casualties with their palms.  However the palmetto was completely defoliated but came back with avengeance in spring.  He said if he didn't know any better it seemed to like it.  Since then it has been doing well.  Next time I'm down there I'll see if I can get access and snap a pic.

I am tempted to purchase a large Sabal aside from S.minor to try out now. 

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Love them palms
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I just found out about a large palmetto growing in Silverton, Oregon just outside Salem.  I wasn't able to go and see it but was told by the owner it has around 10' of trunk if I remember correctly.  3 winters ago during our really bad (top 5 worst all time) it saw 6F at their location, and I was told they had mass casualties with their palms.  However the palmetto was completely defoliated but came back with avengeance in spring.  He said if he didn't know any better it seemed to like it.  Since then it has been doing well.  Next time I'm down there I'll see if I can get access and snap a pic.

I am tempted to purchase a large Sabal aside from S.minor to try out now. 

I have 1 sabal palmetto I planted in july and 4 sabal Riverside I planted this spring,, Banana Joe Clemente says they should do well up here in mukilteo wa

Edited by Love them palms
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Chester B
18 hours ago, Love them palms said:

I have 1 sabal palmetto I planted in july and 4 sabal Riverside I planted this spring,, Banana Joe Clemente says they should do well up here in mukilteo wa

People have tried and failed in the past according to @Palm crazy.  However the weather has changed and things seem much warmer here now, although this summer has been a bit of a bummer.  I can say Sabal minor work here.  I've had them in the ground for several years but only expect 2 fronds per year, anything beyond that is a bonus.  

I do have S. causiarum, S. uresana, S.palmetto and S.mexicana all growing out to larger sizes.  I will plant some of them out next spring and continue to grow the rest larger.  And one Sabal louisiana in the ground.  All will be planted in full sun and receive lots of water.

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Love them palms
2 hours ago, Chester B said:

People have tried and failed in the past according to @Palm crazy.  However the weather has changed and things seem much warmer here now, although this summer has been a bit of a bummer.  I can say Sabal minor work here.  I've had them in the ground for several years but only expect 2 fronds per year, anything beyond that is a bonus.  

I do have S. causiarum, S. uresana, S.palmetto and S.mexicana all growing out to larger sizes.  I will plant some of them out next spring and continue to grow the rest larger.  And one Sabal louisiana in the ground.  All will be planted in full sun and receive lots of water.

Dave Alvarez from Facebook shared a photo of a sabal palmetto he planted quite a few years ago unprotected in shoreline wa and it looked nice so there is hope 

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Chester B

I think ones that have grown up here are probably better, but they are so slow here.  Even in the southeast most of the large ones are harvested from the wild.

I'm holding out hope that my S.causiarum will grow at a reasonable pace as they seem to be a much faster growing Sabal.  I will say my large Sabal minor 6' tall by 8' wide has surprised me in its growth rate.  It's working on it's 3rd frond this year and has two flower stalks and it's not been nearly as hot and sunny as the last two years.

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Love them palms
1 minute ago, Chester B said:

I think ones that have grown up here are probably better, but they are so slow here.  Even in the southeast most of the large ones are harvested from the wild.

I'm holding out hope that my S.causiarum will grow at a reasonable pace as they seem to be a much faster growing Sabal.  I will say my large Sabal minor 6' tall by 8' wide has surprised me in its growth rate.  It's working on it's 3rd frond this year and has two flower stalks and it's not been nearly as hot and sunny as the last two years.

I'm putting my money on my sabal Riversides.they get good sun,cold tolerance is good,and they grow quicker than my palmetto 

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Chester B

I don’t have that one yet but would like to get a hold of one. Here’s my big Sabal minor. Size 10 shoe at the base for reference. 

3D7A6C53-9247-4B25-9A4C-386C92777BEF.jpeg

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Chester B

Another shot. Fence behind it is a little over 5.5’. 

56746C8C-E790-4ACF-8A5B-2CA5F9151CF4.jpeg

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Love them palms

Looks nice,I will probably get some minors next spring, knocking out my big ugly juniper bush for more palm space

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aztropic

Was just in Vancouver,B.C. for a week and saw over 100 Tracheys.Surprisingly,they seem to do just fine there,that far north.

 

aztropic

Mesa,ArizonaIMG_20190808_164343259.thumb.jpg.b0565db1c91549113673166c367e5e48.jpg

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Chester B

They've had them for decades.  That side of BC is primarily zone 8 with a few warmer pockets.

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Love them palms
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

They've had them for decades.  That side of BC is primarily zone 8 with a few warmer pockets.

You want to see exotica go to salt spring Island BC,home of Banana Joe. They are zone 9A

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Dave-Vero

Sabal minor in Portland is impressive.  Planting of Butia and  a few others at the Hoyt Arboretum twenty years ago didn't work out.   A December visit to Bellevue (eastern suburb of Seattle) several years ago suggested to me that Trachycarpus seem happier there than in Portland.  

A little leftover half-price Trachy from Fred Meyer that I planted at 6200 SE Stark Street is looking good on last year's Google Street View.  Hasn't grown fast, but it's got a lovely shag of leaves.  

 

 

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Chester B
7 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Sabal minor in Portland is impressive.  Planting of Butia and  a few others at the Hoyt Arboretum twenty years ago didn't work out.   A December visit to Bellevue (eastern suburb of Seattle) several years ago suggested to me that Trachycarpus seem happier there than in Portland.  

A little leftover half-price Trachy from Fred Meyer that I planted at 6200 SE Stark Street is looking good on last year's Google Street View.  Hasn't grown fast, but it's got a lovely shag of leaves.  

I have seen another large Sabal in a commercial planting that has been setting seed across from the Clackamas Town Center.  There are a bunch on Butias around but most are hidden away in people's yards.  They are becoming more commonly available in the regular nurseries through Monrovia.

Trachys do great here and grow extremely quick, but most of the ones you see are out in the open planted as solitary specimens.  Usually in poor soil with no summer irrigation and it does get pretty hot, especially in the core of the city.  If they're planted in moisture retentive soil and receive regular irrigation they grow fast.  I wouldn't be surprised if they do better in Seattle as they tend to be at least 5F cooler than us on any given day, and I think they have a better chance at summer rain than we do.  This year we've had rain three or four times, whereas the last two we would go 60+ days with nothing. 

Your little Freddy's palm looks great.

Take a look at these palms, they are planted with only a couple of inches on either side of the trunk before you hit concrete - this is what you see a lot of.  Not exactly ideal conditions.  They actually look better in this picture than they normally do.

https://goo.gl/maps/TdtcpPahDJL8gtpA9

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Las Palmas Norte
On 8/13/2019 at 5:22 PM, Love them palms said:

You want to see exotica go to salt spring Island BC,home of Banana Joe. They are zone 9A

.. or Jeff St.Gelais place in Victoria on Vancouver Island. Stunning garden.

Cheers, Barrie.

 

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Chester B

Got a pic of the palmetto growing just outside of Salem Oregon. Apparently it’s been there a while and has double in size. I wish I had something in for scale. This palm was huge. Much nicer than any palmetto I saw in Virginia Beach. Around 8’ of trunk but very stout. The one in the foreground wasn’t too small either. 

12B9EF68-6A18-4A2E-8A5B-5B597287FBCF.jpeg

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PlantDad
On 3/30/2017 at 1:13 PM, Jdiaz31089 said:

Same here! I should try to find my password, I'm sure it's written down somewhere. The Pacific coast is really mild compared to the Atlantic coast. There are some very large, century-old phoenix canariensis as far north as Arcata, Eureka and Crescent City. I think Brookings, Coos Bay, North Bend and other coastal towns in Oregon might have some old canariensis and washingtonia as well. Here's a link with pictures showing even an archontophoenix and Syagrus in Brooking! The ocean influence really does help regulate temperatures - both in summer and winter.

 

Coos Bay is about 43 degrees north of the equator. Try getting any of those species to survive even the mildest of microclimates at 43 degrees north along the Atlantic (just about where Portland, Maine is). 

 

http://www.cloudforest.com/northwest/forum/20102924.html

i have been to coos bay multiple times and there are some very nice washingtonia specimens. The northernmost unprotected phoenix canariensis in oregon that is documented is in Gold Beach Oregon. 

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      Somewhere in the middle:


      To present:




      Anyway, sitting at the base of a slight slope, it gets a fair share of runoff and I dug some depressions around it to collect even more water...it’s good for the basjoo, too...I highly recommend Needles but keep the needles in mind where pets and children are concerned...they’re vicious...but in the right zone and situated in the right place, a reliable and dependable choice for cold hardy palm growers.


    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      This past Sunday my husband and I visited Naples Botanical Garden for our anniversary. Among the many palms we saw was this (these?) apparent twin Sabals that are joined at an extra wide trunk ~5' tall, then separated into two separate crowns. I saw no plaque identifying what species of Sabal it (they?) are or anything about them. I am not sure of the species but the sight was so unusual I took the following photos. I have seen photos of solitary Sabals that split into two crowns due to damage but they have normal solitary trunks up to the split. This palm has an extra wide trunk with a "valley" between two halves all the way up to where the crowns separate, as if two palms grew together to form one. Very odd. Anyone else seen this?
      Sabal sp "twins" at Naples Botanical Garden, FL, 2021

       
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