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Who is growing Hydriastele ramsayi?


kylecawazafla

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This is one of my favorite palms that I don't see mentioned that often. After living in Florida for ten years, I don't think I've ever seen one, nor do I think I've ever seen one in a Californian yard! 

Here is a photo of one taken by Willoughby Owen:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/unripegreenbanana/20606925689/sizes/l 

 

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I'm always up for learning new things!

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From my understanding they are extremely difficult to germinate and then very temperamental as seedlings so pretty much nobody grows them but I agree with you, they are a beautiful palm and I would love to have one.

Also, I would assume that both florida and california would be too cold a climate for them considering their very restricted habitat in the top end.

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 In the wild, they only grow in isolated areas of the Northern Territory at around 11 deg South and are very tropical in their requirements.. I doubt they would grow in California and  are probably borderline for most parts of Florida.

Here's a pic of Hydriastele Ramsayi I took near Annersley Point in Western Arnhemland, NT

 

 

b4yybr.jpg

x0qxwx.jpg

 

 

 

 

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I received some seed over a year ago and have 2 plants that came up. Their still a two leaf seedling and basically just sits there. They are extremely slow, yes. And time ill tell if I can even keep them alive.

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Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Jeff, how did you germinate the seeds and how long did it take for the 2 to germinate?

I have 25 seeds and am using spagnum moss in a bag, on top of the dash of the car method! They have been in the car for 8 weeks now and it's full on summer in the Philippines so it's very hot in there....... 

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12 minutes ago, JJD said:

I have 25 seeds and am using spagnum moss in a bag, on top of the dash of the car method! They have been in the car for 8 weeks now and it's full on summer in the Philippines so it's very hot in there....... 

Probably already popped. Add some salt and butter.

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No they have not popped yet, if all else fails I will add some salt an butter and wash them down with a beer.

I got the seeds from John and Helen Cobb in Darwin and they had the most success germinating by just leaving them in a bag of spagnum in the car and forgetting about them. I asked John how long it took for them to germinate and he said he couldn't remember, so I think it's a long time to get them to pop, if they pop at all.....

 

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  • 7 months later...

Here are some pictures of Hydriastele ramsayi seeds I've got in two different stages of germination. Their growing medium is mostly sand with the addition of potting mix that contains various microbial cultures and a bit of charcoal. From all I've read, even if I'm successful (a big 'if'!) the further development of these plants is going to be a very long process. But who doesn't enjoy attempting to grow a challenging palm species? :unsure:

Hydriastele-1.jpg

Hydriastele-3.jpg

Hydriastele-2.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/28/2017, 5:57:24, Jeff Searle said:

I received some seed over a year ago and have 2 plants that came up. Their still a two leaf seedling and basically just sits there. They are extremely slow, yes. And time ill tell if I can even keep them alive.

Jeff: Have your seedlings developed beyond the 2-leaf stage yet? Would love a progress report. ;)

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One thing I always wanted to try with these was using smokey water to keep the mix wet. All of the habitat palms I have seen had burn marks and lots of seedlings, so wondering if it would help...now to get some seed and try...

The most non-tropical plant I have seen was growing in QLD on the sunshine coast by a PT member chakoro... Craig hasn't been on here in a while, but you could search his posts and find a photo of his plant which was very healthy last time we saw it.

 

Daryl

 

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Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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14 hours ago, Daryl said:

One thing I always wanted to try with these was using smokey water to keep the mix wet. All of the habitat palms I have seen had burn marks and lots of seedlings, so wondering if it would help...now to get some seed and try...

The most non-tropical plant I have seen was growing in QLD on the sunshine coast by a PT member chakoro... Craig hasn't been on here in a while, but you could search his posts and find a photo of his plant which was very healthy last time we saw it.

 

Daryl

 

That was the reason I threw in some charcoal to my seedling mix. I probably should have used water soaked in some "Super Smoke Plus" Cape seed primer paper that I got from a South African supplier. It's typically used to boost germination results for proteas, strelitzias, etc., but might be helpful for this palm.:unsure:

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  • 10 months later...
43 minutes ago, beliz1985 said:

Does anyone know any other palms looking like Hydriastele ramsayi? :)

Depends on where you want to draw the line - many of the big Hydriastele are similar - Hydriastele valida, H. palauensis, H. biakensis

Carpoxylon, Carpentaria, Actinorhytis and a few other big palms with arched leaves can give the same vibe to a garden

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20 hours ago, knell said:

Depends on where you want to draw the line - many of the big Hydriastele are similar - Hydriastele valida, H. palauensis, H. biakensis

Carpoxylon, Carpentaria, Actinorhytis and a few other big palms with arched leaves can give the same vibe to a garden

Thanks, knell!

These arched leaves mesmerized me :) lol

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  • 1 year later...

Time for an update anyone? RPS has seeds of this hard-to-germinate-and-grow Hydriastele, which prompted me to update this topic. Any more info to add to current lore?

I haven't and still don't have the courage to try this challenging species but wonder if anyone in deep SFL or elsewhere is having any success.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I've tried before (see earlier in this thread) but neglected to provide enough bottom heat, both for the unsprouted and the sprouted seeds I had gotten. I'll be trying again, hopefully better informed about the needs of this difficult-to-grow species. I will post any progress I make. ;)

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When I lived in Arnhem Land I scattered some seed and they came up no problems, although slow. Soil was very sandy with pH 5.4 (used to grow great pineapples).

Scattered a lot of seed several years back on my current property and so far haven't seen anything resembling them. The soil has a high lateritic gravel content and pH 7+ (fairly close to 8).

I've seen them growing in many places, all sandy/sandstone country which usually has low pH.  That's probably an important factor.

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1 minute ago, tropicbreeze said:

When I lived in Arnhem Land I scattered some seed and they came up no problems, although slow. Soil was very sandy with pH 5.4 (used to grow great pineapples).

Scattered a lot of seed several years back on my current property and so far haven't seen anything resembling them. The soil has a high lateritic gravel content and pH 7+ (fairly close to 8).

I've seen them growing in many places, all sandy/sandstone country which usually has low pH.  That's probably an important factor.

Tropicbreeze: Good to know... thanks for sharing that information about low pH! :D

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/15/2019 at 12:46 PM, Hillizard said:

I've tried before (see earlier in this thread) but neglected to provide enough bottom heat, both for the unsprouted and the sprouted seeds I had gotten. I'll be trying again, hopefully better informed about the needs of this difficult-to-grow species. I will post any progress I make. ;)

 Just got notice today that I won't be getting the Hydriastele ramsayi seeds I ordered a month ago (see below). I wonder if I can get a refund from Rare Palm Seeds (Tobias Spanner)? I really was looking forward to growing them too! :( Hope those in other states have better luck!

PalmSeedsIntercepted.png

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Uh oh. Looks like the US is cracking down on seeds coming from Europe without phytosanitary permits. I've never had seeds from RPS seized - yet. The US already has cracked down on plant material from Thailand, China and other parts of Asia. Now I buy only from Asian sellers that provide those permits - most sellers do not. Have any other RPS buyers in the US had their seeds seized? If so, big trouble for RPS unless they start to provide permits to get through US Customs.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Hillizard, do you know about the Small Lot of Seeds importation permit?  It allows importations of up to 50 seeds per species and is free.

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21 minutes ago, Steve in Florida said:

Hillizard, do you know about the Small Lot of Seeds importation permit?  It allows importations of up to 50 seeds per species and is free.

Steve: Yes, that would be an option. Years ago I think the USDA issued me a permit like that, but I'm not sure where that document is now. It's something to consider but not certain how easy it would be to negotiate with RPS staff using that. They're not the most responsive to messages. I should just order plants via Jungle Music and Floribunda!

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46 minutes ago, Steve in Florida said:

Hillizard, do you know about the Small Lot of Seeds importation permit?  It allows importations of up to 50 seeds per species and is free.

I got a permit like that for a project - Its free and easy. Its actually up to 2500 seeds - 50 packets x 50 seeds per packet.
You can also get a permit for any seed by specifying "eligible taxa" as the species you wish to import.

Start by creating an account here and then fill the permit form:
https://identitymanager.eems.usda.gov/registration/index.aspx

Once you get the permit, you'll also get printable labels. You'll need to ask RPS to print the label and put it on the package. That will make the package go directly to the inspection station, which will then forward it to you. 

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2 hours ago, Ittai Baratz said:

I got a permit like that for a project - Its free and easy. Its actually up to 2500 seeds - 50 packets x 50 seeds per packet.
You can also get a permit for any seed by specifying "eligible taxa" as the species you wish to import.

Start by creating an account here and then fill the permit form:
https://identitymanager.eems.usda.gov/registration/index.aspx

Once you get the permit, you'll also get printable labels. You'll need to ask RPS to print the label and put it on the package. That will make the package go directly to the inspection station, which will then forward it to you. 

Thanks for your post and the link. I'll hold off on next steps until I see what response I get from RPS about my seed order. :unsure:

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More than a few ancient specimens at Ann Norton Sculptor Garden in WPB together with many more obscure specimens.

What you look for is what is looking

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Kyle,

Separately, where did your incredible overview of the palms and places in Colombia flee? I was going through your Photo Bucket, which included so many spectacular things beyond palms (ie. Botero and many other things) and was called to duty and unable to comment when it disappeared. Help! 

What you look for is what is looking

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I tried the Small Seed Lot Permit route about 10 years ago. A Small Seed Lot Permit was good for 3 years then had to be renewed. It was easy to get, way complicated to use esp. for the seller/gifter required to fill out/sign US Gov't paperwork. In my case, it required the seeds be sent to Miami Customs Inspection Station. If the seeds passed the look/see I had the option of driving 6-7 hours round trip to collect my seeds. Or I could set up an account with Fed Ex to have seeds picked up and delivered to me. Or I could give Customs a credit card number (!?!?!? *&$@#$!?) to charge expenses/postage to mail the seeds.

In my case, if I lived in the Miami area it might have been worth all the effort because I could have made the relatively short trip to get my seeds. That is certainly a viable option for anyone living in/close to a major city that has Customs inspections facilities. But if you don't as I don't, you have to weigh the risks of giving total strangers credit card info or set up accounts with commercial shippers.

Is RPS willing to jump through US Gov't hoops for its 100s (or 1,000s) of US customers? Does it have funds/manpower to do so? Only Toby can say. Maybe he can provide a phytosanitary certificate, if required, but as my experience has shown with Thai sellers, that'll cost ya. How much I have no idea.

But for now I am leery of ordering seeds that may end up in a US incinerator or some Customs inspector's Miami garden - my Government at work to benefit me.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I tried the Small Seed Lot Permit route about 10 years ago. A Small Seed Lot Permit was good for 3 years then had to be renewed. It was easy to get, way complicated to use esp. for the seller/gifter required to fill out/sign US Gov't paperwork. In my case, it required the seeds be sent to Miami Customs Inspection Station. If the seeds passed the look/see I had the option of driving 6-7 hours round trip to collect my seeds. Or I could set up an account with Fed Ex to have seeds picked up and delivered to me. Or I could give Customs a credit card number (!?!?!? *&$@#$!?) to charge expenses/postage to mail the seeds.

In my case, if I lived in the Miami area it might have been worth all the effort because I could have made the relatively short trip to get my seeds. That is certainly a viable option for anyone living in/close to a major city that has Customs inspections facilities. But if you don't as I don't, you have to weigh the risks of giving total strangers credit card info or set up accounts with commercial shippers.

Is RPS willing to jump through US Gov't hoops for its 100s (or 1,000s) of US customers? Does it have funds/manpower to do so? Only Toby can say. Maybe he can provide a phytosanitary certificate, if required, but as my experience has shown with Thai sellers, that'll cost ya. How much I have no idea.

But for now I am leery of ordering seeds that may end up in a US incinerator or some Customs inspector's Miami garden - my Government at work to benefit me.

Meg: Thanks for recounting your own experiences on this topic and for pointing out some of the many drawbacks. I grow many types of plants and like the challenge of doing so, but this is one issue I don't enjoy having to deal with, regardless of the ag safeguards it's supposedly supporting in all cases.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I reordered from RPS more H. ramsayi seeds and those of a couple of other species... but this time with a phytosanitary certificate. That should do the trick! Lesson learned. :crying:

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Where does RPS mention it provides phytosanitary certificates? Do they cost extra? If so, how much?

Thanks

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Where does RPS mention it provides phytosanitary certificates? Do they cost extra? If so, how much?

Thanks

 

1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

They provide phyto at 30$ extra 

There's a check-box for requesting a phyto. cert. from RPS that appears on-screen during the final stages of paying for the seeds.  There's more general info here: https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/import

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According to that link, I don't need a phyto if I order <50 seeds per species.

Edit: I reread and rule mentioned the ^&)@(# Small Lot Permit

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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On 12/14/2019 at 11:15 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

I tried the Small Seed Lot Permit route about 10 years ago. A Small Seed Lot Permit was good for 3 years then had to be renewed. It was easy to get, way complicated to use esp. for the seller/gifter required to fill out/sign US Gov't paperwork. In my case, it required the seeds be sent to Miami Customs Inspection Station. If the seeds passed the look/see I had the option of driving 6-7 hours round trip to collect my seeds. Or I could set up an account with Fed Ex to have seeds picked up and delivered to me. Or I could give Customs a credit card number (!?!?!? *&$@#$!?) to charge expenses/postage to mail the seeds.

In my case, if I lived in the Miami area it might have been worth all the effort because I could have made the relatively short trip to get my seeds. That is certainly a viable option for anyone living in/close to a major city that has Customs inspections facilities. But if you don't as I don't, you have to weigh the risks of giving total strangers credit card info or set up accounts with commercial shippers.

Is RPS willing to jump through US Gov't hoops for its 100s (or 1,000s) of US customers? Does it have funds/manpower to do so? Only Toby can say. Maybe he can provide a phytosanitary certificate, if required, but as my experience has shown with Thai sellers, that'll cost ya. How much I have no idea.

But for now I am leery of ordering seeds that may end up in a US incinerator or some Customs inspector's Miami garden - my Government at work to benefit me.

Toby and his staff don't even answer emails or fax messages. Totally unexcusable and very poor business!

Jeff

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Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Not that common a palm in cultivation even in Darwin which is only 100 miles from where there are naturally occurring stands. I know of a lady  ( Helen Cobb )in the suburb of Nakara who has mature specimens in her suburban yard. And an old mate enthusiast of mine successfully transplanted some seedlings one soggy waterlogged wet season day about 25 years ago from a stand just off the Arnhem Highway on the way out to Kakadu. Even then only a couple 'took' after his efforts and are now mature plants in the suburb of Wulagi ( he is long gone but the plants are still there ).
Oh and it seems pretty easy to send seeds Stateside from Australia.... try getting seeds sent into Australia.... the Aussie authorities take biosecurity very seriously in our neck of the woods......

Edited by greysrigging
addition to post.
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My pics of Hydriastele Ramsayi from an earlier post #3 have vanished so here they are again.    These pics were taken at Annersley Point about 25klms from Wauk (Murganella) in Western Arnhemland.   It's quite a remote location and seldom visited by anybody.

 

pDlb0Bp.jpg

SWZcLye.jpg

RmKVxt3.jpg

MZ8YPwB.jpg

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Went back to ANSG in search for the Hydriastele ramsayi, which I know I saw in the past. I could only locate this Hydriastele beguinii in a short journey. So many unidentified palms in this garden and you have to get down on your hands and knees and rumble through the brush to get names on old tinny tags on most:8739F911-6E5E-4408-BE70-AD0D6675B986.thumb.jpeg.77e42cee3bd8f5b5c58d84f451a48b3c.jpeg7E719426-13B3-4335-8A94-DAB3B2D82EB2.thumb.jpeg.a13d7293f1037971e2dc1c0b4bb3ba54.jpeg

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What you look for is what is looking

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8 hours ago, steve99 said:

My pics of Hydriastele Ramsayi from an earlier post #3 have vanished so here they are again.    These pics were taken at Annersley Point about 25klms from Wauk (Murganella) in Western Arnhemland.   It's quite a remote location and seldom visited by anybody.

 

pDlb0Bp.jpg

SWZcLye.jpg

RmKVxt3.jpg

MZ8YPwB.jpg

Based on the images you posted, I wonder if seed germination of this species might be triggered by recent fire/smoke/charcoal residue? To test that, I have some smoke discs I'll put in the water which I'll use to soak the seeds once they arrive. I understand they grow in soil that's mostly sand, too. ;)

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Thanks for the habitat photos. H. ramsayi is a good looking palm.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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