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Beccariophoenix alfredii cold hardiness

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Fusca
On 10/14/2019 at 4:59 AM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

This is very encouraging information,  but makes me go back to why they're not grown in the gulf coast =/ 

Hey TJ,

I believe the problem with Parajubaea is a combination of factors - they don't like high humidity, hot summer days with warm summer nights (insufficient cool-down), and cold/rainy winters.  P. sunkha is supposed to be more tolerant of humidity than the other Parajubaea species but still doesn't handle the Gulf Coast cold winter rains very well.  Our extreme winter lows and summer highs don't seem to be the problem for them.  I've been advised that P. sunkha  might  do OK here in western part of SA where it's not as humid as the east side and much less humid than Houston and not as much cold rain in winter, but we tend to get colder winter low temps which will push their limits.  The other species would not make it here or there for very long.

Jon

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
2 hours ago, Fusca said:

I believe the problem with Parajubaea is a combination of factors - they don't like high humidity, hot summer days with warm summer nights (insufficient cool-down), and cold/rainy winters.

Cold rainy winters i think is the biggest problem for subtropical palms out my way. Im hoping Butia x PJs hybrids will be the ticket here =) gotta get in touch with Patric !!!

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Tyrone
5 hours ago, Fusca said:

Hey TJ,

I believe the problem with Parajubaea is a combination of factors - they don't like high humidity, hot summer days with warm summer nights (insufficient cool-down), and cold/rainy winters.  P. sunkha is supposed to be more tolerant of humidity than the other Parajubaea species but still doesn't handle the Gulf Coast cold winter rains very well.  Our extreme winter lows and summer highs don't seem to be the problem for them.  I've been advised that P. sunkha  might  do OK here in western part of SA where it's not as humid as the east side and much less humid than Houston and not as much cold rain in winter, but we tend to get colder winter low temps which will push their limits.  The other species would not make it here or there for very long.

Jon

What are your average winter temps and how much rain do you get in winter? I'm just curious. Our summers always cool down at night well below 20C (68F) but I thought we had cool wet winters which all my Parajubaeas seem to do well with.

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Fusca
13 hours ago, Tyrone said:

What are your average winter temps and how much rain do you get in winter? I'm just curious. Our summers always cool down at night well below 20C (68F) but I thought we had cool wet winters which all my Parajubaeas seem to do well with.

Hi Tyrone,

I've only lived here in San Antonio, Texas a bit over 2 years myself, but according to the US Climate Data website:

                          Average Daytime High                Average Overnight Low         Average Rainfall

December                   64°F   (17.8°C)                             41°F   (4.9°C)                 1.97"  (50 mm)

January                       62°F   (16.7°C)                             39°F  (3.7°C)                  1.65" (42 mm)

February                     67°F   (19.5°C)                             42°F  (5.8°C)                  1.73" (44 mm)

 

Of course here the temperatures fluctuate quite a bit with cold fronts that come through so the sudden change in temperature is probably another factor.  Usually the rain we get is triggered by the cold fronts that bring the ultimate lows.  My first winter here we had a very unusual snowfall in Dec. 2017 and the next month we had 2 consecutive nights of 20°F (-6.7°C) and 26°F (-3.3°C) following a rain but only 2 other nights got below freezing.  From what I was told the previous winter had a low of 18°F (-7.8°C).  Interesting to hear that your Parajubaeas do well with your wet winters.  Our summer temps rarely cool down below 75°F (23.9°C) at night following daytime temps often at or above 100°F (37.8°C).

Jon

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Tyrone
8 hours ago, Fusca said:

Hi Tyrone,

I've only lived here in San Antonio, Texas a bit over 2 years myself, but according to the US Climate Data website:

                          Average Daytime High                Average Overnight Low         Average Rainfall

December                   64°F   (17.8°C)                             41°F   (4.9°C)                 1.97"  (50 mm)

January                       62°F   (16.7°C)                             39°F  (3.7°C)                  1.65" (42 mm)

February                     67°F   (19.5°C)                             42°F  (5.8°C)                  1.73" (44 mm)

 

Of course here the temperatures fluctuate quite a bit with cold fronts that come through so the sudden change in temperature is probably another factor.  Usually the rain we get is triggered by the cold fronts that bring the ultimate lows.  My first winter here we had a very unusual snowfall in Dec. 2017 and the next month we had 2 consecutive nights of 20°F (-6.7°C) and 26°F (-3.3°C) following a rain but only 2 other nights got below freezing.  From what I was told the previous winter had a low of 18°F (-7.8°C).  Interesting to hear that your Parajubaeas do well with your wet winters.  Our summer temps rarely cool down below 75°F (23.9°C) at night following daytime temps often at or above 100°F (37.8°C).

Jon

Yes, that’s quite an extreme climate. The absolute lows after rain would be an issue, as well as the summer heat, especially at night for Parajubaea.

I have similar winter maximums as you, but with warmer winter nights (6-8C) with only light frosts in comparison. Our summers are way cooler especially at night.

I find many Andean things do OK here.

Beccariophoenix alfredii will do well with your heat but the absolute winter lows could be an issue.

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redbeard917

Sorry for a dumb question, but I have a friend who lives in an area which is zone 9 on the maps and where Phoenix roebellini are not uncommon. How does Beccariophoenix compare to that species?

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RedRabbit
38 minutes ago, redbeard917 said:

Sorry for a dumb question, but I have a friend who lives in an area which is zone 9 on the maps and where Phoenix roebellini are not uncommon. How does Beccariophoenix compare to that species?

I would guess that P roebellini is a little hardier than B alfredii.  

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Alberto
5 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I would guess that P roebellini is a little hardier than B alfredii.  

No, the leaves of B. alfredi are a lot frost hardier then P. roebellenii. 

 

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Tyrone
37 minutes ago, Alberto said:

No, the leaves of B. alfredi are a lot frost hardier then P. roebellenii. 

 

Yes I agree. I had a very cold winter period in 2017 which the locals said was a once in 30 year event and my roebs were significantly damaged but the alfrediis though damaged were only tinged a bit. All made it through and grew out of it. They may have seen -3C at a guess.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

Yes I agree. I had a very cold winter period in 2017 which the locals said was a once in 30 year event and my roebs were significantly damaged but the alfrediis though damaged were only tinged a bit. All made it through and grew out of it. They may have seen -3C at a guess.

This is good to know as roebelini are a plenty here even tho marginal at times but still prevalent here. 

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Palmsofengland

It certainly isn’t much to look at, but I believe I bought this as B.Alfredii. Is this a correct ID or not? This picture is of it post-winter where we took -7C and numerous frosts. I feel as though I must have misremembered as this would be terrific hardiness for Beccariophoenix. 

2B1543D5-FE17-489E-B2FB-FCCA8B4B2883.jpeg

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