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Beccariophoenix alfredii cold hardiness

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GottmitAlex

A bit off topic, but looking at habitat photos of the palms in question, I do not see any dead fronds on the ground.

I wonder if there was upkeeping done by the natives before the discovery of those palms. 

 

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sipalms

Does anyone know how these perform in New Zealand?

They are for sale here online as well established in bags, in the Far North (Auckland and North) which have 9b/10a climate but overall cooler than continental equivalents.

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Tyrone
2 hours ago, sipalms said:

Does anyone know how these perform in New Zealand?

They are for sale here online as well established in bags, in the Far North (Auckland and North) which have 9b/10a climate but overall cooler than continental equivalents.

Should be good. It sounds like my climate and they're a winner here.

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Lou-StAugFL

Here is a photo of mine here in St. Augustine, Florida zone 9A.   It has had very little protection over the years.  It does very well in that spot.  I have another in the back under oak canopy and it has grown much smaller.  Thought I'd take a photo with me next to it for you to see the size better.

IMG_8438.jpg

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
3 hours ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

Here is a photo of mine here in St. Augustine, Florida zone 9A.   It has had very little protection over the years.  It does very well in that spot.

Wow good looking palm :greenthumb: Im 9a Texas so i may just have to give it a try now =) 

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GottmitAlex
4 hours ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

Here is a photo of mine here in St. Augustine, Florida zone 9A.   It has had very little protection over the years.  It does very well in that spot.  I have another in the back under oak canopy and it has grown much smaller.  Thought I'd take a photo with me next to it for you to see the size better.

IMG_8438.jpg

Amazing! What a feat! This is the first I've read about a B. Alfredii thriving in a eastern coast 9A.   My hat's off to you! Congratulations!

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Jeff985
2 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow good looking palm :greenthumb: Im 9a Texas so i may just have to give it a try now =) 

 I was thinking the same thing. Too bad I’ve never seen one at any garden center here. When you drive to Florida to get one grab 5 or 6 for me too. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
3 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

 I was thinking the same thing. Too bad I’ve never seen one at any garden center here. When you drive to Florida to get one grab 5 or 6 for me too. 

I will make it out that way one day haha , Cant say I have ever seen seeds for sale ever on here ?

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Jeff985
4 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I will make it out that way one day haha , Cant say I have ever seen seeds for sale ever on here ?

I don’t have the patience for that. One of these days we’re going to have to rent a u-haul and drive to Florida or at least to the Brownsville/Padre area and load up on stuff that’s not available here. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Road trip it is haha ....... when I finally take my daughter to Disney World for the first time I will also hit up some nurseries and PTers B)

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Jeff985

You’re going to Florida anyway. Great. I’ll take 4 b. alfredii. 30 gallon should do. I’m willing to pay up to $30 each, and no rush. Anytime tomorrow will be fine. 

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GottmitAlex
6 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

You’re going to Florida anyway. Great. I’ll take 4 b. alfredii. 30 gallon should do. I’m willing to pay up to $30 each, and no rush. Anytime tomorrow will be fine. 

Lol. Here in Cali 5 gallon alfies ar going for $45.

 

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RedRabbit
35 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow good looking palm :greenthumb: Im 9a Texas so i may just have to give it a try now =) 

@Lou-StAugFL might technically be in 9a per USDA, but on the water in St. Johns County is probably 9b.  Earlier in the thread @_Keith provided a great account of BA cold hardiness from his experience in Louisiana and it seems clear it isn't a 9a palm. :(

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Xenon
40 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow good looking palm :greenthumb: Im 9a Texas so i may just have to give it a try now =) 

There are some nice royals in St. Augustine near the coast, so I doubt it's truly "9a". Probably more like Corpus Christi (9b, 10a most winters) than Houston. 

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GottmitAlex
4 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

@Lou-StAugFL might technically be in 9a per USDA, but on the water in St. Johns County is probably 9b.  Earlier in the thread @_Keith provided a great account of BA cold hardiness from his experience in Louisiana and it seems clear it isn't a 9a palm. :(

Yes, I was alluding to that myself.  (Indirectly).

I know alfies are Cali 9A and East coast 9b palms. Hence my felicitations. 

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Jeff985
1 minute ago, RedRabbit said:

@Lou-StAugFL might technically be in 9a per USDA, but on the water in St. Johns County is probably 9b.  Earlier in the thread @_Keith provided a great account of BA cold hardiness from his experience in Louisiana and it seems clear it isn't a 9a palm. :(

Agreed, but the same can be said for the Houston area. Close to the bay is 9b. Galveston will likely be promoted to 10a when the next hardiness map comes out. 

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Xenon
1 minute ago, Jeff985 said:

Agreed, but the same can be said for the Houston area. Close to the bay is 9b. Galveston will likely be promoted to 10a when the next hardiness map comes out. 

St. Augustine has warmer avg temps (probably similar extremes) than Galveston hence why I made the comparison to Corpus Christi. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
3 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

@Lou-StAugFL might technically be in 9a per USDA, but on the water in St. Johns County is probably 9b.  Earlier in the thread @_Keith provided a great account of BA cold hardiness from his experience in Louisiana and it seems clear it isn't a 9a palm. :(

I actually agree with you 100% on this but I don't mind a lil bit of zone push will it break my heart in 20yrs prolly but I'm sure that will be some good growing times for the palm =)

Where @Jeff985 is at, only a couple miles northeast of me I believe would have no problem growing one there as there are already palms growing there that shouldn't be there.

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Xenon

By the way, there is a nursery in Rosenberg (starts with a C) that sometimes carries them. 

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Jeff985
2 minutes ago, Xenon said:

By the way, there is a nursery in Rosenberg (starts with a C) that sometimes carries them. 

Caldwell’s. That’s a cool place. 

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Jeff985
12 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I actually agree with you 100% on this but I don't mind a lil bit of zone push will it break my heart in 20yrs prolly but I'm sure that will be some good growing times for the palm =)

Where @Jeff985 is at, only a couple miles northeast of me I believe would have no problem growing one there as there are already palms growing there that shouldn't be there.

There is a lot of stuff growing here that isn’t supposed to. Large plumerias are very common. There are a lot of roebeleniis that have 8-10 feet of trunk. I’ve seen a couple large Majesty palms, large bougainvillea in ground, lots of bizzies, and even one Norfolk Island pine in my neighborhood. Granted, any day the polar vortex can come along and punch is in the face but I’m going to keep having fun til then. I’ve heard Royals were becoming common here from the 90’s until the 2010 freeze came along and wiped them out. I’ve been thinking about trying one. If I could get a few years out of it I’d be happy with that. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
22 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

Caldwell’s. That’s a cool place.

Just looked them up and the website says they carry 2g size B.Alfredii for 25$ Let me know when you pick some up ill paypal you haha

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UK_Palms

Which is more hardier out of Beccariophoenix Alfredii and Parajubaea Torallyi...?

Both are mountain coconuts. One from Madagascar, the other from Bolivia. It seems the Parajubaea are more cold-hardy, but the Alfredii deal with winter-wet and humidity better. That's just from reading about them, so I don't know for sure. Has anyone grown both, or either of them? 

I am intrigued as to whether one would do better than the other in a mild-temperate climate with warm summers.  

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Jeff985
20 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Just looked them up and the website says they carry 2g size B.Alfredii for 25$ Let me know when you pick some up ill paypal you haha

2 gallon. That’s going to be really small and those things grow pretty slowly from what I’ve read. I think we should stick with the original plan. You drive to Florida and pick up some 30 gallon. Your first stop at Burger King is on me. As long as you order off the value menu. 

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Afpotic6

Hey there from Saint Augustine/Anastasia Island. 

Location is approximately 1 mile from the ocean and three-quarter mile from the intercoastal. Smack dab in the middle of the island about 2 miles from historic Saint Augustine.

I planted this beauty as a 5 gallon plant approximately six years ago. I purchased two and planted one in the front yard with almost no irrigation with a high canopy tree above and the one in the picture off the southwest corner of our house with the benefit of irrigation. The difference is 2/3 more growth with irrigation.

We’ve had no frost for two years. But, I had 2 Arikury palms under a high canopy water oak and one succumbed to frost damage due to defoliation after hurricane Matthew. However, the Alfredii showed slight burn on a couple of fronds which I considered slight.

421D0C02-5F7C-425A-A496-F7C0ADA9B9C6.jpeg

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Tyrone
14 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Which is more hardier out of Beccariophoenix Alfredii and Parajubaea Torallyi...?

Both are mountain coconuts. One from Madagascar, the other from Bolivia. It seems the Parajubaea are more cold-hardy, but the Alfredii deal with winter-wet and humidity better. That's just from reading about them, so I don't know for sure. Has anyone grown both, or either of them? 

I am intrigued as to whether one would do better than the other in a mild-temperate climate with warm summers.  

I’m growing both. Parajubaea torralyi would be the more cold tolerant of the two. I had a bad winter in 2017 and the alfrediis tinged on the exposed leaves while the PvTs were completely unscathed.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
20 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

2 gallon. That’s going to be really small and those things grow pretty slowly from what I’ve read. I think we should stick with the original plan. You drive to Florida and pick up some 30 gallon. Your first stop at Burger King is on me. As long as you order off the value menu. 

:floor: I have no comeback to this ...... I can say this I'm pretty much over buying specimen size palms and prefer smaller palms that I can nurture and grow big one day =)

 

10 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

I’m growing both. Parajubaea torralyi would be the more cold tolerant of the two. I had a bad winter in 2017 and the alfrediis tinged on the exposed leaves while the PvTs were completely unscathed.

That's very interesting to hear and I really want to try some of Patrics hybrids but I'm really worried about our wet winters out this way and the fact no one seems to be growing PJs here in the gulf

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Merlyn2220
1 hour ago, Afpotic6 said:

Hey there from Saint Augustine/Anastasia Island. 
I planted this beauty as a 5 gallon plant approximately six years ago. I purchased two and planted one in the front yard with almost no irrigation with a high canopy tree above and the one in the picture off the southwest corner of our house with the benefit of irrigation. The difference is 2/3 more growth with irrigation.

That's a really beautiful Alfie!  I was trying to figure out why one of mine grew from 6 to 10 feet this year.  The other 4 in the ground started at 5-6' last fall and are still around 7 feet now.  Your comment made me realize that the taller one gets about the same amount of sun as the others, but it is about 6' downhill from a roof downspout.  So while my dripline setup gives each one about 1 gallon/day in supplemental water, that one gets drenched with probably twice as much rain water as the others...

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Lou-StAugFL

I actually purchased this as a seedling from a company in Texas I can't remember the name.  It was in the Houston area but doesn't exist anymore.  I bought two, one is in the shade the other is the one pictured.  It has done so much better the other is probably four feet shorter. I am in St. Augustine South subdivision on the Intracoastal Waterway just south of downtown St. Augustine, a little cooler than Anastasia Island but not by much.  It has been mostly frost free for several years if there has been frost it has been very light on rooftops.  I have a lot of family in Galveston County and would agree here in St. Augustine near the water we tend to stay much warmer during the winter.  We are officially 9A but I agree we are probably mostly 9B especially near the water.  Just a mile inland there is often frost, but we don't see it here.  I have a 15'Mallika mango and and 20' carambola tree so I doubt those are 9A plants.  Back in the 1970s and 1980s we were 9A.  Had many years where we would hit 25 degrees or lower, haven't seen anything in the 20s for quite a few years.  We have had some years with lows around 30 but with my oak hammock it stays a little warmer.

Edited by Lou-StAugFL
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Xenon
1 hour ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

I have a lot of family in Galveston County and would agree here in St. Augustine near the water we tend to stay much warmer during the winter.  

Galveston Island (and to a lesser extent, areas directly adjacent to the bay) itself is actually pretty mild. Most winters are zone 10, 1997-2009 did not drop below 30F (long enough to grow a Carpentaria to fruiting maturity) and lowest in the past 20 years is 27F. There are some royals, foxtails, and a smattering of other zone 10 stuff on the island. However St. Augustine does see more daytime heating in the winter (mid 60s vs low 60s). 

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Tyrone
5 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

:floor: I have no comeback to this ...... I can say this I'm pretty much over buying specimen size palms and prefer smaller palms that I can nurture and grow big one day =)

 

That's very interesting to hear and I really want to try some of Patrics hybrids but I'm really worried about our wet winters out this way and the fact no one seems to be growing PJs here in the gulf

We get about as much rain in winter as Southern California gets in a full year. My soil is clay peat as well so holds onto water all year. In fact through winter spring my PVT's are sopping wet.

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RedRabbit
43 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Galveston Island (and to a lesser extent, areas directly adjacent to the bay) itself is actually pretty mild. Most winters are zone 10, 1997-2009 did not drop below 30F (long enough to grow a Carpentaria to fruiting maturity) and lowest in the past 20 years is 27F. There are some royals, foxtails, and a smattering of other zone 10 stuff on the island. However St. Augustine does see more daytime heating in the winter (mid 60s vs low 60s). 

I was under the impression a lot of the tropicals on Galveston Island were wiped out in a freeze couple years ago, is that accurate?

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Jeff985
4 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I was under the impression a lot of the tropicals on Galveston Island were wiped out in a freeze couple years ago, is that accurate?

There are still foxtails, norfolks, bougainvillea. I’m sure there’s more but I usually don’t drive through the neighborhoods. 

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Xenon
28 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I was under the impression a lot of the tropicals on Galveston Island were wiped out in a freeze couple years ago, is that accurate?

Yes Jan 2018 (low was "only 27F" but very long duration freeze) was pretty bad and killed a lot of stuff but some foxtails and royals survived and made a full recovery. Dicot stuff that froze back is gaining mass again. Thought the giant "Norfolk" pines that once dominated the island were goners but some of them pulled through as well, though they'll never again regain their full glory. 

Edited by Xenon
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Jeff985
31 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Yes Jan 2018 (low was "only 27F" but very long duration freeze) was pretty bad and killed a lot of stuff but some foxtails and royals survived and made a full recovery. Dicot stuff that froze back is gaining mass again. Thought the giant "Norfolk" pines that once dominated the island were goners but some of them pulled through as well, though they'll never again regain their full glory. 

That is true about the Norfolks. The ones that survived do still show damage. There is one close to my house that has damage from that freeze. Another one a couple blocks away is dead. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
5 hours ago, Tyrone said:

We get about as much rain in winter as Southern California gets in a full year. My soil is clay peat as well so holds onto water all year. In fact through winter spring my PVT's are sopping wet.

This is very encouraging information,  but makes me go back to why there not grown in the gulf coast =/ 

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Tyrone
2 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

This is very encouraging information,  but makes me go back to why there not grown in the gulf coast =/ 

That I can’t answer. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
54 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

That I can’t answer. 

Yeah i dont want to get that off topic anyways since i believe there is already a topic on PJs in the Gulf. 

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sonoranfans

one gallon a day in supplemental water might not wet a good root zone.  Mine are watered with sprinkler(in sandy soil) 2x a weeks for 30mins each time.  Drippers are good in slow draining soil but you might need to reduce the frequency and increase the volume of water depending on soil drainage.  I used drippers in clay soil out west and the clay soil led to big diameter wet spots after dripping for a few hours.  in my florida yard, drippers are almost worthless, it drains to a small surface wet spot.  I use micro sprayers where soil contains lots of organics and regular sprinklers where trees are in or near grass.  My largest/fastest alfredii of 3 sits on a relative high spot in full sun, but gets irrigation 2x a week.   If your soil drains well, more water may be needed to help the other BA's if you use drip, or use a microsprayer.

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Jeff985
5 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

This is very encouraging information,  but makes me go back to why there not grown in the gulf coast =/ 

Could be availability. There are several palms that would do very well here that are nowhere to be found here. Chamaedorea radicalis for example  I’ve been trying to find one of those for two years.

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