Jump to content
topwater

Beccariophoenix alfredii cold hardiness

Recommended Posts

GottmitAlex
16 minutes ago, Lou-StAugFL said:

Here is one of mine that is in the ground.  It may get down to 34 degrees here tonight. Might get frost but I don't think so because it has been very windy.  I'm not going to protect it.  I have another one I had since it was a seedling that is in a container.  It is much smaller I guess due to being in a container.

BA1.jpg

BA2.JPG

How old is it?

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lou-StAugFL

I think it is about four years old.  I know I had it in a pot at least two years and this is its second winter in the ground.  I think I planted it in the ground in March 2015.  It has been warm here all winter. If it gets this cold tonight, it will be the coldest night of the year.  We only had one other night that was around 38 degrees. and no frost here at my house at all.  There has been frost about a mile west of me, but the Intracoastal Waterway has kept us frost free this year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sonoranfans

Just to clarify, I never heard anyone report that frost plus above freezing temps caused damage, mine had no problem with that.  It was a long sub 28-30 degree with frost that caused the defoliation.  34 degrees and frost shouldnt be an issue for this palm.  And once the get some size I havent heart of what the cold tolerance would be.  Years ago this discussion( with different people) was pretty long and some conclusions were that.

1) its a 9B palm

2) hard frosts of any length(below freezing) could be a problem with defoliation and in a few colder cases, death.

3) there may be different genetic groups in play with respect to BA cold tolerance, some believed the "purple stem" variety to be more cold tolerant.  Not sure where that ended up.

4) they dont like being wet in the roots when its cold, you dont plant this palm next to and in the same soil mix as an archrontophoenix if you want best results.  Its one of my most dry tolerant feather palms(based on irrigation failures which coincided with dry spells of 30-60 days).

5)  they are not nutrient pigs, no obvious nutrient sensitivities like kentiopsis O, phoenix rupicola, teddy bears which are somewhat sensitive to Fe Mg/CA

6) when mature, BA is a BIG palm, its a beast before it trunks and of course likely after.  I placed mine too close to another palm(9') and had to remove it.   The palm in this pic was almost completely deoliated in dec 2010 as a small 3 gallon size pinnate palm.

alfrediiN1.PNG

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
_Keith

Just to close out my comments in this thread, mortality on the 4 alfredii after nights of 24 and 25 was 100%.  Not a Zone 9a plant by any measure.  May they rest in peace.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
steve99

 

 

I usually get three or four frosts a year but the temp doesn't go much below freezing when we do, and if it does, it's only for a few hours at most.  After winter my  Beccariophoenix remains unblemished and seems to handle the colder temps quite well.   Something akin to a Bismarckia I suppose.

 

3df0c1c3.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
_Keith
On 4/19/2017, 8:41:27, _Keith said:

Just to close out my comments in this thread, mortality on the 4 alfredii after nights of 24 and 25 was 100%.  Not a Zone 9a plant by any measure.  May they rest in peace.

I stand corrected.  Not in that alfredii is not a Zone 9a plant because it certainly is not a Zone 9a plant.  But it does appear I have 1 survivor.   To my astonishment one is throwing a spear.   Can't say for sure it'll make the summer, but it is not dead yet.

IMG_2232.JPG

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GottmitAlex

That's good news Keith! Hoping for the best for that Alfredii.

From what I understand, the Alfredii is not a zone 9A Palm anywhere except in California and Arizona. Seems the main detrimental factor is the high and prolonged humidity levels during the cold snaps.  

Edited by GottmitAlex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sonoranfans
On 4/19/2017, 7:01:11, steve99 said:

 

 

I usually get three or four frosts a year but the temp doesn't go much below freezing when we do, and if it does, it's only for a few hours at most.  After winter my  Beccariophoenix remains unblemished and seems to handle the colder temps quite well.   Something akin to a Bismarckia I suppose.

 

3df0c1c3.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are not quite as cold hardy as bismarckia, Ive seen bizzies take 21F in AZ, losing all but two leaves and the spear, but it came back strong.  These are lower elevation(warmer) than bizzies in madagascar, so their native habitat is a bit warmer.  Like bizzies they can take more cold in dry climates than in the wet humid ones.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon
10 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

 

These are not quite as cold hardy as bismarckia, Ive seen bizzies take 21F in AZ, losing all but two leaves and the spear, but it came back strong.  These are lower elevation(warmer) than bizzies in madagascar, so their native habitat is a bit warmer.  Like bizzies they can take more cold in dry climates than in the wet humid ones.

 

Bismarckia seems to be remarkably hardy in Houston too. Only light damage in areas where queens were moderately singed (low 20s). I know of one that did quite well in an area where queens were mostly defoliated or even killed...should definitely be used more in warmer parts of town. 

 

Edited by Xenon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit
5 hours ago, _Keith said:

I stand corrected.  Not in that alfredii is not a Zone 9a plant because it certainly is not a Zone 9a plant.  But it does appear I have 1 survivor.   To my astonishment one is throwing a spear.   Can't say for sure it'll make the summer, but it is not dead yet.

IMG_2232.JPG

That's great news! I'm really glad to hear at least one is pulling through. It looks like that's a pretty small specimen, if it survives 24f at that size it might be pretty darn hardy when fully mature.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

Gee, I doubt that it will be able to pull through another such winter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411

Newbie here in Ponte Vedra Florida (midway between st.augustine and Jacksonville)  originally from the north, quickly became a palm enthusiast. Knowing all the typical cold hardy palms planted in the area, I was astonished to come across a "cold hardy coconut " at the local palm dealer. That's when I discovered the B. Alfredii. Picked one up for a song and dance, now trying to learn as much as I can. Came with a foot and a half of trunk and is easily 8ft. 30 gal pot. Temps hit 29 here on some winter nights with some frost so looks like I am going to be a new perspective on this breed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411

20170504_165008-2124x1195.jpg

20170504_134520-1328x747.jpg

20170504_193007-747x1328.jpg

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GottmitAlex
9 minutes ago, Insomniac411 said:

20170504_165008-2124x1195.jpg

20170504_134520-1328x747.jpg

20170504_193007-747x1328.jpg

Wonderful specimen! It has everything going for it!  Enjoy your palm tree. You'll love it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zeeth
2 hours ago, Insomniac411 said:

Newbie here in Ponte Vedra Florida (midway between st.augustine and Jacksonville)  originally from the north, quickly became a palm enthusiast. Knowing all the typical cold hardy palms planted in the area, I was astonished to come across a "cold hardy coconut " at the local palm dealer. That's when I discovered the B. Alfredii. Picked one up for a song and dance, now trying to learn as much as I can. Came with a foot and a half of trunk and is easily 8ft. 30 gal pot. Temps hit 29 here on some winter nights with some frost so looks like I am going to be a new perspective on this breed. 

Nice palm! They get very large, so that's a good spot for it. If you ever want to check out what it'll look like in a few years, find time to go to one of the Searle Brothers extravaganza sales. There's one in the ground there that's got a good bit of size to it (and the sale itself is awesome).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

Nice palm! They get very large, so that's a good spot for it. If you ever want to check out what it'll look like in a few years, find time to go to one of the Searle Brothers extravaganza sales. There's one in the ground there that's got a good bit of size to it (and the sale itself is awesome).

Thanks just looked it up. 4 1/2 hrs away, but I love the hobby so much I see myself taking a road trip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oliver

Her is one at my house in Brownsville which is officially 9B but is more like 10a. The lowest that it has seen is 29F

B-alfredii-wb.jpg

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411

Beautiful tree Oliver. I'm in awe of mine here in Jax. The closest thing to a coconut here is a mule palm, which I have 2, and they look nothing like coconuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit
On 5/24/2017, 7:57:17, Insomniac411 said:

20170504_165008-2124x1195.jpg

20170504_134520-1328x747.jpg

20170504_193007-747x1328.jpg

It looks great, thanks for sharing! I'll be interested to know how it does up there. :) 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kekoanui

Just thought I'd share my alfredii here in North Florida St. John's County.  Planted spring 2014.  IMG_0358.thumb.PNG.b041140d013f46c66e654

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
topwater
On 5/25/2017, 6:47:11, oliver said:

Her is one at my house in Brownsville which is officially 9B but is more like 10a. The lowest that it has seen is 29F

B-alfredii-wb.jpg

Brownsville is solid 10a on the new USDA map, lucky dog.  Yours looks great!  

Edited by topwater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
topwater

Here's my alfie family, they need to be planted but my future residence is uncertain, thus I wait. 

IMG_0359.JPG

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
topwater

Empty Pinot Grigio for scale. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammer
On 4/21/2017, 12:03:49, _Keith said:

I stand corrected.  Not in that alfredii is not a Zone 9a plant because it certainly is not a Zone 9a plant.  But it does appear I have 1 survivor.   To my astonishment one is throwing a spear.   Can't say for sure it'll make the summer, but it is not dead yet.

IMG_2232.JPG

Any updates on this palm Keith? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411
23 hours ago, Kekoanui said:

Just thought I'd share my alfredii here in North Florida St. John's County.  Planted spring 2014.  IMG_0358.thumb.PNG.b041140d013f46c66e654

That's amazing. Since 2014! I seriously need to see it in person niegbbor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith in SoJax

Comparing Beccariophoenix alfredii to Cocos nucifera in Winter Haven FL.  Jan 2018 has brought 4 subfreezing nights so far.  The lowest was about 27 and it was below freezing for several hours.  The coconut is a crispy critter, the Beccariophoenix seems OK at this point.  We have 7 B. alfredii on property and all look the same, little or no damage to be seen.  FWIW, all 7 of them endured hurricane Irma's eyewall remnants.  We had winds of around 100 mph for an hour, and tropical storm force winds (39 mph) for about 12-18 hours.  All of the B. alfredii came through that too though there are some brown leaf tips from the physical damage.  Bottom line: I like B alfredii.  Still not sure its long-term hardy in Winter Haven though.  We can get considerably colder than 27....

sSpeIquBSOmrNT+SxskD1w.jpg

IwVZeWfsQtigyElRpO76Eg.jpg

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit
1 hour ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Comparing Beccariophoenix alfredii to Cocos nucifera in Winter Haven FL.  Jan 2018 has brought 4 subfreezing nights so far.  The lowest was about 27 and it was below freezing for several hours.  The coconut is a crispy critter, the Beccariophoenix seems OK at this point.  We have 7 B. alfredii on property and all look the same, little or no damage to be seen.  FWIW, all 7 of them endured hurricane Irma's eyewall remnants.  We had winds of around 100 mph for an hour, and tropical storm force winds (39 mph) for about 12-18 hours.  All of the B. alfredii came through that too though there are some brown leaf tips from the physical damage.  Bottom line: I like B alfredii.  Still not sure its long-term hardy in Winter Haven though.  We can get considerably colder than 27....

sSpeIquBSOmrNT+SxskD1w.jpg

IwVZeWfsQtigyElRpO76Eg.jpg

I noticed the same thing here too! My B alfredii looks spotless, but my neighbor's coconut is probably dead. I understand it takes awhile for damage to show with this palm, but so far so good.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit

By the way, all the royals I drove past today are looking pretty bronzed. I'm sure they'll be fine, but it is interesting to see B alfredii's foliage appears to be more hardy than R regia. 

Edited by RedRabbit
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CroToni
On 14/3/2017, 08:10:02, GottmitAlex said:

I think Sydney is a 10a/10b. You'll have no issues with your Alfedii zone-wise.

10b in the coastal suburbs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keith in SoJax
9 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

By the way, all the royals I drove past today are looking pretty bronzed. I'm sure they'll be fine, but it is interesting to see B alfredii's foliage appears to be more hardy than R regia. 

FWIW Caryota maxima isn’t burnt either.  The young royals right next to them are bronzed and so are Dypsis lutescens, Dypsis leptochilios, Clusia rosea, Thrinax excelsa, Syagrus schizophylla.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xhoniwaters1

Interested to know if there were any larger ones in North Florida exposed  to temps in the low twenties. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TexasColdHardyPalms

The ones in my banana cold saw low 20s and the smaller one is showing significant burn. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lou-StAugFL

We hit 28 here in St. Augustine. I covered one larger with frost cloth and left the other exposed but somewhat under live oak canopy.  Neither showed any distress at all from that cold. No freeze burns all the fronds are still green.  It was probably below freezing for at least 7-9 hours and we have had several hard freezes.   Looks like this is a very promising palm for northeast Florida near the ocean or Intracoastal Waterway. The most we have had in many years.  I have lived in this house for 35 years and this is stacking up to be one of the coldest day time temps since the 80s.  However, the freezes have not been as severe as the 80s.  We had five days in a row this month where the highs were only in the mid 40s.  Very odd for us.

 

Edited by Lou-StAugFL
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kekoanui

We hit 26 F on 1/18 with no frost here in North St. John's county.  I have had these 4 palms since the spring of 2014 and they have not seen frost due to the microclimate created by the neighboring homes to the north and south side of us. I am holding out hope for Beccarriopheonix alfredii.  However, another 2 degrees drop in temperature I am not so sure.  

IMG_0927.JPG

IMG_0926.JPG

IMG_0925.JPG

Edited by Kekoanui
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RedRabbit

Thanks for the reports out of St Johns County! I'm very pleased to see your palms doing well after this freeze. :)

Edited by RedRabbit
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kekoanui
26 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Thanks for the reports out of St Johns County! I'm very pleased to see your palms doing well after this freeze. :)

I can't help but think there is a difference between 9A along the Gulf Coast and 9A Atlantic Coast.  These are definitely the coldest temps these palms have seen. Do these palms immediately show some damage and then slowly start to decline? They are completely unscathed!  Amazing plants regardless.

Edited by Kekoanui

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alberto
On 21/04/2017 17:08:26, Xenon said:

Bismarckia seems to be remarkably hardy in Houston too. Only light damage in areas where queens were moderately singed (low 20s). I know of one that did quite well in an area where queens were mostly defoliated or even killed...should definitely be used more in warmer parts of town. 

 

Queens defoliated??? That must be temperatures below -10'C at least.....

Edited by Alberto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TexasColdHardyPalms

The Bismarckia that I have are far more cold hardy the ones that come from Florida.  I have three 3G plants that were planted outside that took 20F with zero damage, zero protection.  The arenga engleri next to them defoliated and a 7G clara was 30% burned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon
4 hours ago, Alberto said:

Queens defoliated??? That must be temperatures below -10'C at least.....

Around -8'C in both 2010 and 2011. Also hit -8'C a few days ago. I hope the Bismarckia will be okay, shame as it was just about to have a full crown. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insomniac411
On 5/24/2017, 7:57:17, Insomniac411 said:

20170504_165008-2124x1195.jpg

20170504_134520-1328x747.jpg

20170504_193007-747x1328.jpg

Update on B.Alfredii,  we had a really nasty cold snap here in  northern Florida and I'm dealing with the aftermath. Lost my Royal Palm which was more my fault than the weather. We had 2 cold snaps for several days each down to the mid-upper 20s. Alfredii shows signs of cold burn, but appears to be healthy.  I'll just have to wait for it to grow out.  20180128_090256-747x1328.thumb.jpg.d1b57

20180128_090252-747x1328.jpg

20180128_090318-747x1328.jpg

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×