Sabal palmetto historically at Cape Hatteras?

[Dave-Vero]

Resuming an earlier discussion of Sabal palmetto distribution, this publication from the USDA Forest Service mentions a possible historic occurrence of Sabal palmetto at Cape Hatteras, referencing: 

Little, Elbert L., Jr. 1979. Checklist of United States trees (native and naturalized). U.S. Department of Agriculture, Agriculture Handbook 541. Washington, DC. 375 p.

I haven't found Little's book online.  But it probably cites a reference used by: 

Flora of the Southern and Mid-Atlantic States by Alan S. Weakley (online at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 2015), which quotes this commentary for Sabal palmetto:

 

Curtis (1883) reports that "Cape Hatteras is, or was, the northern limit of this Palm... It is to be

deeply regretted, however, that a reckless indifference to the future, which has been charged as a characteristic of Americans, is

likely to efface, at no very distant time, every vestige of this interesting ornament of our coast. The inner portion of the young

plant is very tender and palatable, somewhat resembling the Artichoke and Cabbage in taste (hence its name of Cabbage Tree),

and is often taken for pickling, and the stock is ruined by the process. Thus for a pound or two of pickles, no better either than

many other kinds, the growth of half a century is destroyed in a moment, and posterity left to the wretched inheritance of vain

mourning for the loss of the greatest beauty of our maritime forest."

_____________________

Weakley got the date wrong or saw a later reprint.  The original citation is Curtis, M. A. (Moses Ashley)  1860.  Geological and Natural History Survey of North-Carolina, Part III, Botany, Containing a Catalogure of the Plants of the State, with a Description and History of the Trees, Shrubs, and Woody Vines.  Raleigh, W. W. Holden, Printer to the State.  123 pp. plus errata.  Sabal palmetto is on page 64. (accessed via Google Books, Feb 1, 2017).

Curtis's publication also includes what is now called Sabal minor, under the name of Sabal adansonii.  He notes that leaves from both species were used to make palm-leaf hats.  Curtis was a highly respected expert on plants of the southeast.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

9 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Resuming an earlier discussion of Sabal palmetto distribution, this publication from the USDA Forest Service mentions a possible historic occurrence of Sabal palmetto at Cape Hatteras, referencing: 

Little, Elbert L., Jr. 1979. Checklist of United States trees (native and naturalized). U.S. Department of Agriculture, Agriculture Handbook 541. Washington, DC. 375 p.

I haven't found Little's book online.  But it probably cites a reference used by: 

Flora of the Southern and Mid-Atlantic States by Alan S. Weakley (online at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 2015), which quotes this commentary for Sabal palmetto:

 

Curtis (1883) reports that "Cape Hatteras is, or was, the northern limit of this Palm... It is to be

deeply regretted, however, that a reckless indifference to the future, which has been charged as a characteristic of Americans, is

likely to efface, at no very distant time, every vestige of this interesting ornament of our coast. The inner portion of the young

plant is very tender and palatable, somewhat resembling the Artichoke and Cabbage in taste (hence its name of Cabbage Tree),

and is often taken for pickling, and the stock is ruined by the process. Thus for a pound or two of pickles, no better either than

many other kinds, the growth of half a century is destroyed in a moment, and posterity left to the wretched inheritance of vain

mourning for the loss of the greatest beauty of our maritime forest."

_____________________

Weakley got the date wrong or saw a later reprint.  The original citation is Curtis, M. A. (Moses Ashley)  1860.  Geological and Natural History Survey of North-Carolina, Part III, Botany, Containing a Catalogure of the Plants of the State, with a Description and History of the Trees, Shrubs, and Woody Vines.  Raleigh, W. W. Holden, Printer to the State.  123 pp. plus errata.  Sabal palmetto is on page 64. (accessed via Google Books, Feb 1, 2017).

Curtis's publication also includes what is now called Sabal minor, under the name of Sabal adansonii.  He notes that leaves from both species were used to make palm-leaf hats.  Curtis was a highly respected expert on plants of the southeast.

shame they ate em all.  they should plant a dozen or more in a safe area where they can start a new sabal stand

[Alicehunter2000]

Wish I knew how to make a hat out of Sabal palmetto. Have never been able to find info on internet on Sabal palmetto hat making.

[Alan_Tampa]

Homeless people in Ybor City in Tampa area seem to be experts at weaving sable! They could likely make a hat, prices negotiable!

[PalmTreeDude]

Hatters Island is warmer than Bald Head Island. It is home to many native Sabal minor, and I am not sure why Sabal palmetto are not found there naturally. Other than.. Well... Everyone chopping them down. I see they have a nature reserve on the island. It would be awesome if they planted more like 25 - 50 large ones, at seeding age, in the reserve. They are commonly planted there. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by PalmTreeDude

[Palmsbro]

"Cape Hatteras is, or was, the northern limit of this Palm... It is to be

deeply regretted, however, that a reckless indifference to the future, which has been charged as a characteristic of Americans, is

likely to efface, at no very distant time, every vestige of this interesting ornament of our coast. The inner portion of the young

plant is very tender and palatable, somewhat resembling the Artichoke and Cabbage in taste (hence its name of Cabbage Tree),

and is often taken for pickling, and the stock is ruined by the process. Thus for a pound or two of pickles, no better either than

many other kinds, the growth of half a century is destroyed in a moment, and posterity left to the wretched inheritance of vain

mourning for the loss of the greatest beauty of our maritime forest."

I agree 1000%. Sabal palmetto need to come back to the area from Bald Head Island to at least Cape Hatteras, if not, then VA Bch.

[frienduvafrond]

On 2/3/2017, 6:20:24, PalmTreeDude said:

Hatters Island is warmer than Bald Head Island. It is home to many native Sabal minor, and I am not sure why Sabal palmetto are not found there naturally. Other than.. Well... Everyone chopping them down. I see they have a nature reserve on the island. It would be awesome if they planted more like 25 - 50 large ones, at seeding age, in the reserve. They are commonly planted there. 

I respectfully disagree that Hatteras Island is warmer than Bald Head. Don't know much about eating palmettos. Are the minors not good for eating then? That is interesting.

[frienduvafrond]

On 2/3/2017, 6:20:24, PalmTreeDude said:

Hatters Island is warmer than Bald Head Island. It is home to many native Sabal minor, and I am not sure why Sabal palmetto are not found there naturally. Other than.. Well... Everyone chopping them down. I see they have a nature reserve on the island. It would be awesome if they planted more like 25 - 50 large ones, at seeding age, in the reserve. They are commonly planted there. 

After doing some research I stand corrected. My apologies, it does appear to be true that Hatteras is warmer.

[Palmsbro]

On 2/3/2017, 6:20:24, PalmTreeDude said:

Hatters Island is warmer than Bald Head Island. It is home to many native Sabal minor, and I am not sure why Sabal palmetto are not found there naturally. Other than.. Well... Everyone chopping them down. I see they have a nature reserve on the island. It would be awesome if they planted more like 25 - 50 large ones, at seeding age, in the reserve. They are commonly planted there. 

  I haven't seen that many growing there on Google maps. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, but Sabal palmetto look like a rare palm for Hatteras Island (but still planted appreciably).

  If only there was an easy way to get more Sabal palmettos to the island.

[PalmTreeDude]

50 minutes ago, Palmsbro said:

  I haven't seen that many growing there on Google maps. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right places, but Sabal palmetto look like a rare palm for Hatteras Island (but still planted appreciably).

  If only there was an easy way to get more Sabal palmettos to the island.

Here are a few that I liked. There are more than you think but they are kind of hidden. It is nothing compared to Myrtle Beach or a place like that though. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2661495,-75.5303596,3a,28.4y,204.26h,91.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7F3PjTphGnycy8kfmG9ELQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.265645,-75.5296867,3a,25.8y,160.85h,87.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZX8OITH2bIEhSOQkEByGvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2653681,-75.5291092,3a,15.9y,149.48h,88.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPwNfAqi67m7SdkZJruSapQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Also an example of the Sabal minor, they love it there. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2650944,-75.5240811,3a,20.1y,199.19h,87.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq3e-RSnlOo9XNktb0IULdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Palmsbro]

Thanks, PalmTreeDude.

It is difficult to find any palm other than Butia in that area.