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Corona ca Coconut


JubaeaMan138

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The black mold on the concrete driveway appears to me to indicate there has been a vehicle regularly parking next to the coco since @GottmitAlex was there around New Years.  It appears that it gets pulled up or backed up pretty close to the garage door and very close to the palm. Even if this is a neighbor utilizing an available space (likely overnight) at a vacant house it appears that it gets used routinely based on the mold growth pattern and would provide heat / block wind.

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Good observation, @NOT A TA

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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6 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

The black mold on the concrete driveway appears to me to indicate there has been a vehicle regularly parking next to the coco since @GottmitAlex was there around New Years.  It appears that it gets pulled up or backed up pretty close to the garage door and very close to the palm. Even if this is a neighbor utilizing an available space (likely overnight) at a vacant house it appears that it gets used routinely based on the mold growth pattern and would provide heat / block wind.

Black mold in the extremely dry climate in Corona would be highly unlikely. The air is dry nearly all year with humidity often in the teens. Those marks are more likely residue from dripped motor oil. It’s hard to completely remove from porous concrete. 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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On 7/20/2020 at 6:41 PM, NOT A TA said:

The black mold on the concrete driveway appears to me to indicate there has been a vehicle regularly parking next to the coco

Those are tire marks and oil drips. But yes, looks like that driveway has seen some traffic.

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8 minutes ago, Pando said:

Those are tire marks and oil drips. But yes, looks like that driveway has seen some traffic.

OMG, good to see you!

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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Another thing which I have not seen mentioned in this thread, but which kind of compounds this mystery (at least in my mind) is that this area of SoCal can get downright chilly in the evenings during any month of the year.

Ill never forget the first time I visited the inland empire to see a friend who had moved to Murrieta in July of 2016. Living in Arizona and knowing that area was also hot and dry, I presumed their summer weather was similar to ours and so dressed accordingly.  She had a wonderful view of the Ortegas from her back porch, so in the morning I went out to drink my coffee out there dressed like it was Phoenix.  Sure enough, it was 54 degrees and I went right back inside to finish my cup! It hit 92 later that day.

Looking at weather records, it has been down to at least the low 40s in every month of the year in Corona, and I know records aside it is consistently in the low 60s or upper 50s overnight even during the summer.

In my mind, that makes this palm all the more mind boggling.

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4 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Another thing which I have not seen mentioned in this thread, but which kind of compounds this mystery (at least in my mind) is that this area of SoCal can get downright chilly in the evenings during any month of the year.

Ill never forget the first time I visited the inland empire to see a friend who had moved to Murrieta in July of 2016. Living in Arizona and knowing that area was also hot and dry, I presumed their summer weather was similar to ours and so dressed accordingly.  She had a wonderful view of the Ortegas from her back porch, so in the morning I went out to drink my coffee out there dressed like it was Phoenix.  Sure enough, it was 54 degrees and I went right back inside to finish my cup! It hit 92 later that day.

Looking at weather records, it has been down to at least the low 40s in every month of the year in Corona, and I know records aside it is consistently in the low 60s or upper 50s overnight even during the summer.

In my mind, that makes this palm all the more mind boggling.

I used to live in Murrieta for years and it definitely gets a bit colder than Corona. Another thing about Corona is they better air drainage on the hills. Murrieta is basically in a bowl so the cool calm nights typically are a little colder. Being more inland it does heat up during the day. Also even though it is a bit inland Murrieta is actually about 20 to 30 miles away from but the Ortegas actually block a lot of coastal influence. I really think that Corona is a little better area and I think this coconut is actually located in the perfect spot. Probably gets good air drainage at night and nice heat during the day.

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  • 1 month later...
hi guys i follow you from italy and i was very curious this crown palm can be so strong and beautiful ... seeing the low night crown and the cold wave of 2019 it seems very strange that it is coconut then! could it not be another very similar variety eg beccario phoenix, dictyosperma album, or, I don't know other types? I don't understand how it can be so healthy with occasional temperatures of +1 degrees ...
now I have one in a pot in sea sand only but in winter I enter the house! in italy all attempts outside of winter coconut palms are dead. maybe in the greenhouse it resists but I have not heard or seen evidence ... but only in the pot for a few years until it lives .. I continue to follow you to see this palm if you find out more about it ... bye bye everyone
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  • 4 months later...
On 1/5/2020 at 10:31 AM, rprimbs said:

What I am starting to think is that the temperature of the soil around the roots is one of the most important factors.

Other than a windbreak how much heating is it getting from the house?  But it does have concrete all of the way around the base. 

I am starting to think that the guy -- who posted fancy pictures of various ways of burying coconuts here-- was basically correct.  What simpler way of keeping the roots warmer during the winter?  Yeah, you could "mulch", but I think that soil would insulate better.  And coconuts can handle being buried.

What if you used the 'low tech' method of just growing a coconut to a decent size -- in a greenhouse -- ,planted it in the ground, then every fall buried the base with soil, and covered the top with a couple of layers of frost blankets.

I am going to try it.

Did you try it? In in Palos Verdes, which is just a smidge south of Corona, but much further West, and nearer the ocean, though my house is on the inland side of the hill. 

One advantage a true mulch might have over soil is the heat of decay. Pineapples were grown in hothouses in England using bark or horse manure to produce heat. 

Compost piles can even spontaneously combust, though this is rare.

How about a high-tech method? If money were no object, hypothetically speaking, how would one build a soil heating system to grow a coco in this type of climate?

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5 minutes ago, TheWaterbug said:

Did you try it? In in Palos Verdes, which is just a smidge south of Corona, but much further West, and nearer the ocean, though my house is on the inland side of the hill. 

One advantage a true mulch might have over soil is the heat of decay. Pineapples were grown in hothouses in England using bark or horse manure to produce heat. 

Compost piles can even spontaneously combust, though this is rare.

How about a high-tech method? If money were no object, hypothetically speaking, how would one build a soil heating system to grow a coco in this type of climate?

I would think that you would just use he type of waterproof heater cable that people put on their roofs to get rid of snow and ice.  Put mesh around the edge of the hole, and then attach heater cable to it.

I had my sprouted coconut in a pot, but the roots had grown out of the bottom hole and into the ground, and when I moved it into my heated frame I broke the roots off.  It died.  This year I am going to plant a bunch straight in the ground.

I used to be an electrician so I am going to put an outdoor outlet right near the coconuts.  I'll cover them with a frost blanket.  And I'll put a little metal tunnel over the space heater, and a little box over the thermostat.

I will make some YouTube videos of the experiment.  I am also going to try growing mangosteens and durians the same way.

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26 minutes ago, rprimbs said:

I would think that you would just use he type of waterproof heater cable that people put on their roofs to get rid of snow and ice.  Put mesh around the edge of the hole, and then attach heater cable to it.

Interesting! Living in Southern California I had no idea such a product existed :lol:

Stuff is reasonably affordable, too. Here's 138' for $95 on amazon. I was originally thinking of some complicated pipe system carrying solar-heated water or glycol, but your solution seems so much more straightforward.

The product I linked even has a WiFi-enabled thermostat. I wonder about the longevity of the product if buried in the soil.  

The one time I attempted to grow a coconut I wrapped a seedling mat around my pot. The pot has a typical frustum shape, so it was difficult to get good contact and good coverage. I got the nut to germinate and grow a shoot about 5" long, and then it died. I might try this again with the 19'/$23 version of the product. And then if its gets large enough to warrant transplanting, I'll buy the 138' cable. Or maybe put a couple of them in series.

How much root volume do y'all think I'd need to heat up, and how many feet of heater cable would that require? Diameter? Depth? This is all for science, of course! 

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I doubt you would need to go more than a couple feet deep.  The soil itself insulates.

I would be cautious about putting too much composting mulch around it.  You you know why they turn mulch? To keep it from getting too hot!  You want it to compost -- not turn to ash.  It can get hot enough to literally cook a plant.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...

No update from anyone lately? I need to drive from LAX to San Bernardino to pick up my Marine nephew on Thursday. I could take the 91 at the cost of a mere 5 minutes, and that would take me right through the city of Corona. 
 
When my nephew asks me why I’m 5 minutes late, I can tell him it’s for science. 

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On 5/22/2022 at 9:41 AM, TheWaterbug said:

No update from anyone lately? I need to drive from LAX to San Bernardino to pick up my Marine nephew on Thursday. I could take the 91 at the cost of a mere 5 minutes, and that would take me right through the city of Corona. 
 
When my nephew asks me why I’m 5 minutes late, I can tell him it’s for science. 

I have some very sad news:

CoronaCoconutMissing1.jpg

I was really hoping I was at the wrong address (I drove by the house 3 times before stopping and getting out of my car), but the street number on the house matches the links on pages 2 and 5, and the rest of the landscape fits:

CoronaCoconutMissing2.jpg

The house next door is now gray, the gray utility pillar is different, and the satellite dish is missing, but everything else matches. 

CoronaCoconutMissing3.jpg

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

Edited by TheWaterbug
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Ok, now I sorta feel honor-bound to try and grow one of these. I'm in 90274, just a smidge south of the late Corona Coconut. Anyone know where I can buy a specimen of the most cold-adapted coco, available in Southern California? 

The best place in my yard for this is currently occupied by a banana plant:

DwarfCavendishFullPlant.jpg

It currently has a full bunch of bananas on it, but when I harvest in a few months I'm not opposed to moving it and making room for a coco. I'll even put in some of that heater cord. 

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6 minutes ago, TheWaterbug said:

I have some very sad news:

CoronaCoconutMissing1.jpg

I was really hoping I was at the wrong address (I drove by the house 3 times before stopping and getting out of my car), but the street number on the house matches the links on pages 2 and 5, and the rest of the landscape fits:

CoronaCoconutMissing2.jpg

The house next door is now gray, the gray utility pillar is different, and the satellite dish is missing, but everything else matches. 

CoronaCoconutMissing3.jpg

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 

Oof!   Bummer :blink: :(

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8 minutes ago, TheWaterbug said:

The best place in my yard for this is currently occupied by a banana plant

The brick looks great for retaining heat, especially if you get more sun than your pic shows. What direction do the walls face? 

Edited by JASON M
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Milwaukee, WI to Ocala, FL

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It’s always gut wrenching to see a healthy coconut palm anywhere in CA cut down almost always by someone who doesn’t realize what a prize they have. That one in Corona was epic. What a shame. 

Edited by Jim in Los Altos
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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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That's really sad news! As @Jim in Los Altos has mentioned, I guess most people are simply unaware/ignorant about palms - it hurts the more if it is about a specimen that

grows at an usual spot and which is therefore followed by at least the half of our palmtalk community...

@TheWaterbug, if you have the chance and resources to grow one at your place, it would be a nice move and a great tribute to this species.

 

Lars

 

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@GottmitAlex I have high expectations on your cocos :D moving forward, I'm following you I have also planted some few let's see how that goes on North California.

 

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What can I say? I saw it it firsthand and I'm beside myself right now and logically,  upset. (There's another word for it, but this is a family forum)

Thanks @EnriqueVega. All the knowledge I have regarding cocos is from the wonderful PalmTalk members.  I'll keep y'all appraised (as always) with the status of my palms.  

 

Why would they do this??!!!!!:angry:

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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So, with the demise of the Corona Coco, what's the newest holder of the "Northernmost Cocos Nucifera" title?

Also, what varieties are known to be the most cold-tolerant? I see for sale and shipment to CA:

  1. Green Malayan from Fast Growing Trees:
    1. https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/coconut-palm-tree?variant=13940849016884
    2. $70 per tree, and free shipping for 2 or more (>= $119 order value)
    3. Does Not Ship To: AZ, which suggests that it does ship to CA.
  2. Unknown variety from Kanoa Hawaii:
    1. https://www.kanoahawaii.com/products/sprouted-coconut
    2. $65/each, including shipping.
    3. "Ships To All 50 States"
  3. Malayan/Green Malayan from Real Palm Trees:
    1. https://realpalmtrees.com/palm-tree-store/small-malayan-coconut-palm-tree.html
    2. $89 plus shipping. 
    3. Shipping calculator doesn't give me an error when I put in my CA address, but it also won't let me complete checkout.
  4. Unknown variety/ies from Trees.com:
    1. https://www.trees.com/coconut-trees
    2. Lists a bunch of different varieties on the page, and has an Add to Cart with a price of $70, but no way to specify the variety.
    3. If you proceed to Checkout, it takes you to FastGrowingTrees (see above), which suggests that they might sell only the Green Malayan, and that the rest of the info on that page is for info only.
Edited by TheWaterbug
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On 5/26/2022 at 7:24 PM, JASON M said:

The brick looks great for retaining heat, especially if you get more sun than your pic shows. What direction do the walls face? 

Those walls face south and east, which isn't perfect, but also isn't horrible. That corner gets pretty full sun during the day. That photo was in the later afternoon. The banana is happy. But bananas are easy. 

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1 hour ago, Billy said:

Hmmm...good question! Perhaps with one in Santa Ana?

I believe it’s currently me lol.

 

0F47A979-6642-442A-B7BA-2CA67F5DB2BE.jpeg

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Go James!!!!!

What's your latitude? Rancho Cucamonga? Wikipedia says Rancho Cucamonga is at 34°7′24″

I'm at 33.765727. Do I even bother planting one if I have no shot at the title?

Should we continue with this thread? Or does James's coco deserve its own thread?

Edited by TheWaterbug
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I’m 34.14 N. North Rancho at 1600 ft elevation so I am about 1,000 feet higher in elevation than Corona is. 

I definitely do not need my own thread until it’s made a few winters in ground. Mine was planted in March so I have some hurdles to go still lol. 

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2 hours ago, TheWaterbug said:

Also, what varieties are known to be the most cold-tolerant? I see for sale and shipment to CA:

I was looking for a significant palm, but in case I lower my standards, here's an Insignificant Malayan Coconut Palm. But at least it's cheap! :lol:

Edited by TheWaterbug
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5 hours ago, TheWaterbug said:

So, with the demise of the Corona Coco, what's the newest holder of the "Northernmost Cocos Nucifera" title?

Also, what varieties are known to be the most cold-tolerant? I see for sale and shipment to CA:

  1. Green Malayan from Fast Growing Trees:
    1. https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/coconut-palm-tree?variant=13940849016884
    2. $70 per tree, and free shipping for 2 or more (>= $119 order value)
    3. Does Not Ship To: AZ, which suggests that it does ship to CA.
  2. Unknown variety from Kanoa Hawaii:
    1. https://www.kanoahawaii.com/products/sprouted-coconut
    2. $65/each, including shipping.
    3. "Ships To All 50 States"
  3. Malayan/Green Malayan from Real Palm Trees:
    1. https://realpalmtrees.com/palm-tree-store/small-malayan-coconut-palm-tree.html
    2. $89 plus shipping. 
    3. Shipping calculator doesn't give me an error when I put in my CA address, but it also won't let me complete checkout.
  4. Unknown variety/ies from Trees.com:
    1. https://www.trees.com/coconut-trees
    2. Lists a bunch of different varieties on the page, and has an Add to Cart with a price of $70, but no way to specify the variety.
    3. If you proceed to Checkout, it takes you to FastGrowingTrees (see above), which suggests that they might sell only the Green Malayan, and that the rest of the info on that page is for info only.

Anything that's green. If by chance a golden (dehusked, supermarket bought) coco germinates for you, by all means. But if importing cocos to Commiefornia,  look for green ones. 

Green pacific talls as no 1

Green Malayan dwarfs as no 2

Now if you can procure Fiji dwarfs, Call me.

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wow what a shame they cut the tree down. Sigh... People just don't know what they have and some people have the tendency when they first move into a new home to cut everything green to the ground. My neighbors cut a parajubaea sunkha down to put down a bermuda lawn... I will never understand. 

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La Quinta coco, downed. Mexicali coco, downed. Corona coco, downed. Not sure why, just random bad luck I suppose. And all of these were pretty healthy and doing well. So disappointing.

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Are you telling me that they cut down both La Quinta coconuts? Does this include the one that Michael drove all the way out to photograph?

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What you look for is what is looking

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On 5/28/2022 at 5:42 PM, James B said:

I believe it’s currently me lol.

 

0F47A979-6642-442A-B7BA-2CA67F5DB2BE.jpeg

I really hope you can get that to grow! Pile lots of dark colored stones around the base. Overall,  no one has figured out the high latitude, Mediterranean secret sauce for coconuts. I wish you the best!

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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On 5/28/2022 at 1:22 PM, Billy said:

How bout the people in La Quinta removing the coco palm and leaving the queen?! People!!!!!:rant:

And wasn't it the one that had quite a bit of trunk on it, and some nuts too?

John Purcell

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On 5/28/2022 at 2:25 PM, TheWaterbug said:

So, with the demise of the Corona Coco, what's the newest holder of the "Northernmost Cocos Nucifera" title?

Also, what varieties are known to be the most cold-tolerant? I see for sale and shipment to CA:

  1. Green Malayan from Fast Growing Trees:
    1. https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/coconut-palm-tree?variant=13940849016884
    2. $70 per tree, and free shipping for 2 or more (>= $119 order value)
    3. Does Not Ship To: AZ, which suggests that it does ship to CA.
  2. Unknown variety from Kanoa Hawaii:
    1. https://www.kanoahawaii.com/products/sprouted-coconut
    2. $65/each, including shipping.
    3. "Ships To All 50 States"
  3. Malayan/Green Malayan from Real Palm Trees:
    1. https://realpalmtrees.com/palm-tree-store/small-malayan-coconut-palm-tree.html
    2. $89 plus shipping. 
    3. Shipping calculator doesn't give me an error when I put in my CA address, but it also won't let me complete checkout.
  4. Unknown variety/ies from Trees.com:
    1. https://www.trees.com/coconut-trees
    2. Lists a bunch of different varieties on the page, and has an Add to Cart with a price of $70, but no way to specify the variety.
    3. If you proceed to Checkout, it takes you to FastGrowingTrees (see above), which suggests that they might sell only the Green Malayan, and that the rest of the info on that page is for info only.

To the best of my knowledge, the Green Malayan Dwarf is fairly cold hardy, certainly more so than the Golden and Yellow Malayan Dwarfs.  I have had pretty good luck with Green Malayan Dwarfs here in Flour Bluff on the east side of Corpus Christi, Texas, a low end cool to mild wintertime Zone 10A Climate, and I had one in the ground for 5 years that was trunking and had 5 coconuts on it, immediately prior to the Big Freeze in Texas in February last year.  My Green Malayan had been through at least 5 freezes before that, with 4 of those freezes in the upper 20'sF over two back to back winters, and a freeze down to 31.8F with 3 inches of snow on it (Totally unprotected) one winter, from which it recovered from just fine.  This is considered a very marginal climate for Coconut Palms, but like I said, I have had pretty good luck with Green Malayans.  The thing is in marginal climates, you want to wait to plant them in the ground till they are at least 7ft. to 8ft. tall in overall height, plant them on a warm day in April to give them plenty of time to get established before the following winter sets in.  I only grow everything ALL ORGANICALLY, which contrary to what some people will claim here, does add at least a little cold hardiness to tropical trees and plants.  And I water mine thoroughly in the hot dry months, but taper off to just once about every 10 to 12 days in the winter.  I fertlize with MicroLife 8-4-6 Ultimate 4 times per year, in mid February, mid May, mid August, and mid November, and several times throughout the year with MicroLife Ocean Harvest 4-2-3 as a foliar spray at the rate of 2 ounces per gallon of water.  I also, mulch a couple of times per year, and I have put red lava rock around the root zone to help retain heat at the soil level and base of the trunk in winter.  You can also try the Green Hawaiian Tall, NOT the Golden Halwaiian Tall that is oftent shipped as sprouts to the mainland.  And you can try the Jamaican Tall from Central Florida.  It is more cold hardy than the Green Malayan Dwarf, but takes longer to start producing nuts.  If you could get it, the pure Mexican Tall from Matamoros, Mexico, or an area just south of there, would be the best for cold hardiness in the Western Hemisphere.

John

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On 5/28/2022 at 2:25 PM, TheWaterbug said:

So, with the demise of the Corona Coco, what's the newest holder of the "Northernmost Cocos Nucifera" title?

Also, what varieties are known to be the most cold-tolerant? I see for sale and shipment to CA:

  1. Green Malayan from Fast Growing Trees:
    1. https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/coconut-palm-tree?variant=13940849016884
    2. $70 per tree, and free shipping for 2 or more (>= $119 order value)
    3. Does Not Ship To: AZ, which suggests that it does ship to CA.
  2. Unknown variety from Kanoa Hawaii:
    1. https://www.kanoahawaii.com/products/sprouted-coconut
    2. $65/each, including shipping.
    3. "Ships To All 50 States"
  3. Malayan/Green Malayan from Real Palm Trees:
    1. https://realpalmtrees.com/palm-tree-store/small-malayan-coconut-palm-tree.html
    2. $89 plus shipping. 
    3. Shipping calculator doesn't give me an error when I put in my CA address, but it also won't let me complete checkout.
  4. Unknown variety/ies from Trees.com:
    1. https://www.trees.com/coconut-trees
    2. Lists a bunch of different varieties on the page, and has an Add to Cart with a price of $70, but no way to specify the variety.
    3. If you proceed to Checkout, it takes you to FastGrowingTrees (see above), which suggests that they might sell only the Green Malayan, and that the rest of the info on that page is for info only.

Be careful the source of them.  YOU DO NOT WANT ONE THAT HAS BEEN GREENHOUSE GROWN!  Greenhouse grown ones are very delicate and probably cannot handle the outdoor conditions, especially outdoor conditions in a marginal climate for them.

John

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On 5/28/2022 at 7:33 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Anything that's green. If by chance a golden (dehusked, supermarket bought) coco germinates for you, by all means. But if importing cocos to Commiefornia,  look for green ones. 

Green pacific talls as no 1

Green Malayan dwarfs as no 2

Now if you can procure Fiji dwarfs, Call me.

Don't forget the Jamaican Tall from Central or South Central Florida, and the Mexican Tall from the area around Matamoros, Mexico, or just south of there (if you had some way of getting one from there, but with the GESTAPO Homeland Insecurity and U.S. "Customs", good luck!).

John

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On 6/16/2022 at 6:55 PM, Josue Diaz said:

Wow what a shame they cut the tree down. Sigh... People just don't know what they have and some people have the tendency when they first move into a new home to cut everything green to the ground. My neighbors cut a parajubaea sunkha down to put down a bermuda lawn... I will never understand. 

Unforgivable, the HATRED some people have for palms!

John

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