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Mystery palm - any idea what it may be?


Jdiaz31089

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On 11/26/2016, 10:05:15, BS Man about Palms said:

Looks so close to so many things. But I don't really see Jubeaopsis. But I could see Beccariophoenix, Butia, Jubea, or Ravenea in various stages of happiness. I am always terrified of bare rooting palms heading into winter.. :( I kinda almost see Parajubea..

But if it survives, another year it might to show more tendencies..

I think that bare rooting at the onset of winter was a bad call. I should have waited. This palm slowed so much I thought maybe it would rot over winter. I'm happy to see it pushing new growth now, though. The center spear is opening up now and I see roots at the bottom of the container. 

 

On 1/21/2017, 8:50:42, Ben in Norcal said:

Hmmm...I don't think Butia or Jubaea would show that much damage at those temps?

The spotting went away Ben, but you're right - my butia and jubaea don't get spotty with these temps. 

20170531_130038.thumb.jpg.30286b3548b12d

20170531_125921.thumb.jpg.78a2d4e9eb5840

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Here's the same palm today. The fronds are starting to do this cool twisting thing. 

20170720_135117.thumb.jpg.5df8ec3175140a

20170720_135035.thumb.jpg.bfd262521eb412

 

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/25/2016, 8:58:34, DoomsDave said:

If it's a B. mad, full sun, regular water.

Maybe repot it, give it another year before planting out. Takes FOREVER to get any size, but don't plant under the wires, for the love of your great-grandkids.

Pull it out of the pot and look at the dirt and roots. If it's all detioriated and nasty, repot for sure. IF not sure, show us and we'll help.

Share with us what you do and what it turns out to be.

full sun 

regular water 

repot 

wait a year to plant out 

no overhead wires 

show us your progress 

I planted this palm out yesterday, pics coming soon!

 

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Can you spot it here? Probably not...

20171003_175108.thumb.jpg.b152256490b573

It's tucked between the big pot in the middle & the sandstone rock in front of it. 

20171003_175138.thumb.jpg.e925fcebb7abef

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It's "hot to trot" as we used to say back in the infamous disco era.

Let's see how it trots, when it gets hot . . . .

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 10/4/2017, 1:47:04, DoomsDave said:

It's "hot to trot" as we used to say back in the infamous disco era.

Let's see how it trots, when it gets hot . . . .

indeed!

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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I keep looking at this and wondering... it almost looks to me like a Butia hybrid... like a Butyagrus or the like..

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Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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9 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I keep looking at this and wondering... it almost looks to me like a Butia hybrid... like a Butyagrus or the like..

I keep seeing butia also! My butyagrus of about the same size looks very different though. It keeps it's strap leaves longer. It does look kind of like my butia x parajubaea sunkha though, so I'm wondering if it's one of those crosses. But even those still have their strap leaves at this stage. Maybe now that it has a good root system, it'll put on enough growth in the next year for us to be able to tell what it is.

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9 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I keep looking at this and wondering... it almost looks to me like a Butia hybrid... like a Butyagrus or the like..

I'm beginning to think so, too. It's not quite yellow enough in the right places to look like a B. madagascarensis.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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  • 11 months later...

So it's been in the ground a full year and doesn't have much to show for it lol. It is virtually the same size, but is now showing some prominent brown spotting on its petioles. 

 

20180910_171758.jpg

20180910_171735.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

I've had a couple other palm friends look at this little guy and the genus that keeps resurfacing is butia. Given a number of traits I think this may be butia purpurescens or archeri. Both are described as being glaucous, slow-growing species with smooth - rather than toothed- petioles. Photos of archeri appear to show spines at the leaf bases, and purpurescens is described as being the only unarmed butia. The photos of pupurescens on palmpedia show tomentum on some of the leaf bases which is also present on my mystery palm. Perhaps some of our butia experts from Brazil could confirm or deny...

@Alberto ? any thoughts on the suspected identity of this palm? 

20181214_072659.jpg

20181214_072710.jpg

20181214_072728.jpg

Edited by Josue Diaz
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  • 11 months later...

It was mentioned years ago that the leaves appeared reduplicate. And they did.

This now appears to me to be induplicate . Can such a thing change?

Does that change anything?

20180910_171735.jpg

 

Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

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  • 9 months later...

Just thought I'd post an update on my little palm. Seems like it grew a lot this summer

20200930_183323.jpg

20200930_183455.jpg

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Looks like beccariophoenix madagascariensis

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"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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3 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

Looks like beccariophoenix madagascariensis

I concur 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 9/30/2020 at 6:45 PM, Josue Diaz said:

Just thought I'd post an update on my little palm. Seems like it grew a lot this summer

20200930_183323.jpg

 

Josue, thanks for the link to this thread.   I added some different photos in this thread of my Sparkman mystery palm from a similar era.  As I recall mine was a single strap leaf that I almost ripped out of the pot where it had volunteered as a freeloader with the palm I was buying, but decided to keep it and see what it became.  I'm guessing that was around 2013 or maybe as late as 2014.  Interesting that some are saying it looks like a Beccariophoenix madagascarensis.  I haven't ever grown that species, I only have it's relative B fenestralis, and it never had leaf bases like you can see in the bottom photo I've posted here.  B fenestralis has been little more than a survivor for me after about 10 years while this seems to be extremely hardy and has taken a lot of abuse over the years I have had it. 

Josue, does this appear to match your plant?   I still have the photos for this filed under Butia, just so I can find them.  I may have to do a global name switch on all my photos of it at some point if it turns out to be a different genus.

20220124-BH3I6624.jpg

20220124-BH3I6626.jpg

20220124-BH3I6628.jpg

20220124-BH3I6629.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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@Josue Diaz @Tracy both palms are looking like Butia archeri to me now. I don’t really see Beccariophoenix madagascariensis at all, they are quite distinctive as small palms both in the yellowish petiole colour and an odd growth that is typical around the base but neither of which I see here. The leaf bases look very much like Butia to me now. 
 

All this being said, I am very clearly not an expert as I originally thought @Josue Diaz‘s palm was Jubaeopsis which we can 100% rule out now. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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jubutiagrus? You mentioned twisty fronds, made me think of it. Here's one. (not mine)

2008.jpg.b6764931611fa738394c618dfb441d71.jpg

also, any updates on the palm? 

Edited by spike
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16 hours ago, Tracy said:

 

Josue, does this appear to match your plant?   I still have the photos for this filed under Butia, just so I can find them.  I may have to do a global name switch on all my photos of it at some point if it turns out to be a different genus.

Yeah! How cool that we both got this mystery palm from George around the same time. Since putting mine in the ground, mine got heavily shaded until just recently. I think that mine is stretched, but it definitely looks to match yours. And I'd also say this looks unlike my beccariophoenix. 

15 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

@Josue Diaz @Tracy both palms are looking like Butia archeri to me now. I don’t really see Beccariophoenix madagascariensis at all, they are quite distinctive as small palms both in the yellowish petiole colour and an odd growth that is typical around the base but neither of which I see here. The leaf bases look very much like Butia to me now. 
 

All this being said, I am very clearly not an expert as I originally thought @Josue Diaz‘s palm was Jubaeopsis which we can 100% rule out now. 

 

12 hours ago, spike said:

jubutiagrus? You mentioned twisty fronds, made me think of it. Here's one. (not mine)

 

also, any updates on the palm? 

Here are a few low quality shots I took on my way out the door this morning. I'll try to get better quality pictures soon. 

20220125_082907.jpg

20220125_082827.jpg

20220124_174440.jpg

20220124_171456_capture.jpg

20220124_171438.jpg

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/24/2022 at 3:46 PM, Tracy said:

Josue, thanks for the link to this thread.   I added some different photos in this thread of my Sparkman mystery palm from a similar era.  As I recall mine was a single strap leaf that I almost ripped out of the pot where it had volunteered as a freeloader with the palm I was buying, but decided to keep it and see what it became.  I'm guessing that was around 2013 or maybe as late as 2014.  Interesting that some are saying it looks like a Beccariophoenix madagascarensis.  I haven't ever grown that species, I only have it's relative B fenestralis, and it never had leaf bases like you can see in the bottom photo I've posted here.  B fenestralis has been little more than a survivor for me after about 10 years while this seems to be extremely hardy and has taken a lot of abuse over the years I have had it. 

Josue, does this appear to match your plant?   I still have the photos for this filed under Butia, just so I can find them.  I may have to do a global name switch on all my photos of it at some point if it turns out to be a different genus.

20220124-BH3I6624.jpg

20220124-BH3I6626.jpg

20220124-BH3I6628.jpg

20220124-BH3I6629.jpg

20220124-BH3I6630.jpg

20220124-BH3I6631.jpg

20220124-BH3I6622.jpg

How is yours looking @Tracy ?

20230301_081837.jpg

20230301_081850.jpg

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On 3/1/2023 at 8:29 AM, Josue Diaz said:

How is yours looking @Tracy ?

Mine is doing well but still in a pot.  I moved it up to a 15 gallon pot a while back but have had it in this same spot in the prior pot as well.  Eventually it will probably be in either a neighbor's garden, or a friend of one of my sons gardens.  I've offered some palms I have in pots to a young couple down the street remodeling after buying the house a little over a year ago, and have another young couple redoing their landscaping with palms just a few houses down.  It would be nice to add to the palm vibe in the neighborhood and I think this will be a bulletproof starter for either garden.  The couple doing the house remodel tore out all the landscaping so they have a blank canvas when the project is done.  They will need a lot of plantings.  I haven't got a feel yet from them what they want to do, but the wife is from Oahu, so has tropical plants in her background.  I don't want to force anything so will just wait and see since they moved out for the remodel. 

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20230302-BH3I0546.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Awww, the mystery continues………whatever it is it’s turning out to be a nice looking palm either in the ground or in a pot. 

Tim

Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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