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Why is my needle palm dying?


faceyourfaces

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In July I bought two needle palms from a guy selling them on eBay. One of them was clearly in worse condition than the other and it went into rapid decline in September. Today I was able to pull the most recent frond out of it and confirm that it's now completely dead. However, the other palm appeared to be in great condition and showed no bad signs until last month and now it is going into rapid decline like the other palm. The oldest fronds are dying one by one and all of them have dried up quickly. 

The palm on September 29 vs. the palm on November 23:

needle1.thumb.png.161c6bd9fd388183f88198needle2.thumb.png.96b3185e0156543d28ec9c

The guy who sold it to me said he would send me a new needle palm in the spring to replace the one that already died. However, I would like to know why this palm is dying and if there is anything I can do to save it from imminent death. I know that it cannot be completely due to cold weather because the daily lows are still above freezing and I have 5 much younger needle palms in the ground that appear to be in perfect condition. 

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It seems base rotting, I had lost two seedings the same way

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08053.gif

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Rotting, transplant shock that is showing very late signs (if transplanted), or a disease. If it is rotting, pour some 3% Hydrogen Peroxide down the spear, that is what I did to my Butias after a fungal infection and a cold winter and they recovered. Bust of luck!

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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I think it's reasonable to conclude that it could be rotting because the other palm looked rotten when I pulled it out of the ground. I poured some 3% hydrogen peroxide and, although I'm not too optimistic, I'm hoping for the best. Thanks for the information.

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1 hour ago, faceyourfaces said:

I think it's reasonable to conclude that it could be rotting because the other palm looked rotten when I pulled it out of the ground. I poured some 3% hydrogen peroxide and, although I'm not too optimistic, I'm hoping for the best. Thanks for the information.

No problem. Be patient, if it does happen to come back to life, it may take months for new growth to show. 

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PalmTreeDude

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Did you mound plant it? In other words, did you plant it slightly above the soil level? I think it's fine if you did, but with the amount of mulch you put over the top of it that could be keeping the palm from getting water to the root ball. There's no telling whether it's alive or dead at this point, but if you'd like to try to save it, I'd try pulling it out of the ground, fill a tub with water and set the entire rootball in the water to let it soak for 24 hours or so. I did this with a Trachy I had and you could tell a noticeable difference in the palm and it quickly perked back up. 

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Transplant shock, too much sun and dry conditions will do this to needle palms. For what its worth ive never seen a needle die from too much water, but a lot from going dry 

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2 hours ago, smithgn said:

Did you mound plant it? In other words, did you plant it slightly above the soil level? I think it's fine if you did, but with the amount of mulch you put over the top of it that could be keeping the palm from getting water to the root ball. There's no telling whether it's alive or dead at this point, but if you'd like to try to save it, I'd try pulling it out of the ground, fill a tub with water and set the entire rootball in the water to let it soak for 24 hours or so. I did this with a Trachy I had and you could tell a noticeable difference in the palm and it quickly perked back up. 

I planted it at soil level and I just put the mulch there today in preparation for the winter, assuming it would not need much water until the weather warms up. All of the fronds are tightly attached to the palm as I've found from tugging them so I believe it's not completely dead. Perhaps soaking it might just help though.

3 hours ago, Steve the palmreader said:

They don't like mulch

 

I will keep that in mind, thanks.

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1 minute ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Transplant shock, too much sun and dry conditions will do this to needle palms. 

Is it common for symptoms of transplant shock to take ~3 months to show up? I watered it rather frequently after planting it and during the summer it received sun for most of the day except when it was shaded by a deciduous tree during the hottest hours (around 1:30 PM to 4 PM). I know needle palms prefer shade so I'm not ruling that out as a possible issue.

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11 minutes ago, faceyourfaces said:

Is it common for symptoms of transplant shock to take ~3 months to show up? I watered it rather frequently after planting it and during the summer it received sun for most of the day except when it was shaded by a deciduous tree during the hottest hours (around 1:30 PM to 4 PM). I know needle palms prefer shade so I'm not ruling that out as a possible issue.

I've planted a bare root Butia, FOUR months later I though the thing was going to die. It can a while, normally no longer than three weeks, but it can be weird. 

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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Needles are touchy with regards to sunlight and dry soil. Ive planted small, medium and large ones and had all sizes loose 100% foliage with just the slightest increase of sun or less than optimum watering. They will sunburn and loose all their fronds in a few weeks so based on your timeline it sounds like it didnt receive enough water.  

I have customers that water the top of the soil every other day with the waterhose and think the palm is well watered, but when you dig down 6" the soil is completely dry. The key is to water slowly with a drip emiter, bubbler or simply drill a 1/8"hole in a 5gallon bucket, fill it full of water and walk away. 

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I would agree with not enough water, but they can take full sun without a problem. I have two huge needles that have been in full sun since I planted them 12 years ago.

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Needles are often found in flooded swamps. Here are two of mine in full sun, although the cordylines are starting to give them a little shade at over 10 ft tall...

 

f1z2tk.jpg2qdy5gn.jpg

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1 hour ago, Laaz said:

Needles are often found in flooded swamps. Here are two of mine in full sun, although the cordylines are starting to give them a little shade at over 10 ft tall...

Those needle palms are very beautiful. Would you happen to know how old they are? I know they are notorious as slow growers but I have been surprised with the relatively moderate growth rate from my younger ones especially considering how cool it is compared to their native climate.

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I had a similar problem with some 7g Needle palms

off Ebay,they had clearly sat out for a while before

they were shipped(bare-root/often the case on ebay)

and both spear-pulled immediately,one died the other

did make it but lost the main trunk.

I think that one may need to come inside and grow

new roots over the winter if possible...seems like root

damage to me and yes,it can take a while to show,

I had a small Waggie with a couple green leaves

and no roots survive for a year.

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After reading this I'm glad I didn't buy one, at least without the info I got here. Far too dry in summer here and my soil is rocky, sandy and gravelly. I'm not likely to grow something in need of too much supplemental summer water.

Cheers, Barrie.

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10 hours ago, Laaz said:

I would agree with not enough water, but they can take full sun without a problem. I have two huge needles that have been in full sun since I planted them 12 years ago.

I agree as i have a 4' clear trunk needle in full sun here at my house.  However they must be acclimated before going into full sun. I grow my needles under 30% shade cloth to get the maximum growth rate and if you stopped by and purchased one and then planted it in full sun it would burn. Add in bare rooting, stuck in a box for 4 days and you could easily have a recipe for disaster.   

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My suggestion for anyone buying bareroot palms on eBay is to pot them up for at least one year, instead of planting them in the ground right away.  It's a lot of shock that it goes through, from being ripped out of its comfy pot and having the soil washed off of it, to being stuck in the ground in different soil, different growing conditions, etc.  

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On 11/23/2016, 3:44:25, faceyourfaces said:

In July I bought two needle palms from a guy selling them on eBay. One of them was clearly in worse condition than the other and it went into rapid decline in September. Today I was able to pull the most recent frond out of it and confirm that it's now completely dead. However, the other palm appeared to be in great condition and showed no bad signs until last month and now it is going into rapid decline like the other palm. The oldest fronds are dying one by one and all of them have dried up quickly. 

The palm on September 29 vs. the palm on November 23:

needle1.thumb.png.161c6bd9fd388183f88198needle2.thumb.png.96b3185e0156543d28ec9c

The guy who sold it to me said he would send me a new needle palm in the spring to replace the one that already died. However, I would like to know why this palm is dying and if there is anything I can do to save it from imminent death. I know that it cannot be completely due to cold weather because the daily lows are still above freezing and I have 5 much younger needle palms in the ground that appear to be in perfect condition. 

I bought a decent size needle palm from Walmart over the summer and planted in a mostly shaded area...it doubled in size in only 6 months and is looking fantastic!!  My brother in law bought 2 needle palms from Walmart the same time and planted in mostly sun area of his yard next door to me, and his both died in only 5 months.  With that being said they definitely love the shade with partial sun.  Hope this helps! 

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I feel as though I should drive up to Long Island.  

BTW, Laaz's Charleston place looks well fortified.  Chevaux-de-Frise.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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  • 1 month later...

Was it shipped bare root?

 

I made the mistake of putting some Fortunei on the

porch after buying them(bare-root)off e-bay,the cold weather

never allowed the roots to grow and only the one(1 of 3)

that I planted lived,I only watered it once during winter

in case there were a lot of dead roots.

 

 

Anyway-best chance is to pot it up

and keep it somewhere where the roots will be warm enough to grow...

if the plant has enough stored food,it can re-root and when you see vigorous

growth you can replant it.

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I received a bare root Sabal louisiana from eBay in 2015. It immediately went into shock, lost half of its fronds, and it literally hasn't moved at all since then. I'm hoping it grows this year, but I'm not holding my breath.

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22 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Im just curious, what was the ebay user you purchased it from?    Thanks! 

dbryndel

12 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Was it shipped bare root?

Yes.

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12 hours ago, faceyourfaces said:

dbryndel

Yes.

Ok Thanks.  The reason I asked is because I just bought one off of Ebay.  This one is from someone different.  They grow then in zone 9 in SW FL, under 30% shade cloth. They are shipped in full container with soil.  Not sure how old they are but they look to be at least several years or more.  Here is the one I purchased: 

 

 

$_12.jpg

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2 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Ok Thanks.  The reason I asked is because I just bought one off of Ebay.  This one is from someone different.  They grow then in zone 9 in SW FL, under 30% shade cloth. They are shipped in full container with soil.  Not sure how old they are but they look to be at least several years or more.  Here is the one I purchased: 

 

 

$_12.jpg

Did you buy from hawkpalms? The five needle palms I bought from that user are doing phenomenally, even after a 10 degree low. They were much smaller too (shipped in 32 oz containers).

Edited by faceyourfaces
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20 minutes ago, faceyourfaces said:

Did you buy from hawkpalms? The five needle palms I bought from that user are doing phenomenally, even after a 10 degree low. They were much smaller too (shipped in 32 oz containers).

I sure did!   Very good seller.  Very good communication. Answered all of my questions and was kind enough to send me a pic of one of the palms closest to what I asked for to see if I wanted it.    Very glad to hear that you have had much success with them.  That makes me feel even better.    This one is going to be a container palm for a good while.  several years likely.   It will be brought in if it gets too far below freezing.   The plan is by next winter to be living in Va Beach which is a full zone warmer than where I am now.  That will help immensely as well.   

 

When did you buy those from him? Is there another thread on here with photos of them?    Glad you have had a good experience with them!  

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22 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

When did you buy those from him? Is there another thread on here with photos of them?    Glad you have had a good experience with them!  

I bought them back in June. I do have a thread on them here.

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