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Tracy

Dypsis prestoniana variations?

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Tracy

I have a couple of Dypsis prestoniana in my garden.  One was newly planted at the end of last spring and has been slow to get established, while the one that has been in the garden for a couple of years has always been a good grow for me.  The newer planted seems to me to have narrower leaflets, and doesn't have the same beefy trunk when comparing the two plants.  I'm not sure if the newer one will start to resemble the older one with time and pick up speed, but thought I would toss this out there with photos of both.  The newer one came out of a 15 gallon and was top heavy in winds so I staked it down when planting it.  First the new one, then the established presto in the last 2 photos for comparison.

Comments and thoughts appreciated.

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BS Man about Palms

I'll comment after all the others ^_^

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Tracy
1 minute ago, BS Man about Palms said:

I'll comment after all the others ^_^

We discussed when you were over, so it will be interesting to see what others think. 

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Kennybenjamin

They both look presty to me and I'm not up on the exact differences between the 2 varieties but I'd say the newer planted one should have gone in the ground years ago...... it has not been allowed to spread its roots and grow to its potential 

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quaman58

I figured that Bill would be the "go to" guy on this topic. I would not have guessed the one in the first picture was prestoniana; it looks way stretched out, almost greenhouse grown. Or a different palm altogether. Okay Bill, you're up.

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Tracy
1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

I would not have guessed the one in the first picture was prestoniana; it looks way stretched out, almost greenhouse grown. Or a different palm altogether.

I agree on the stretched out appearance, and it is definitely spending most of it's energy on putting down roots which is good.  So if not pretoniana, what would you guess?  I won't be crushed if it isn't prestoniana as diversity is a good thing B), I'm just not sure what to expect of it.  The longest leaf spike is only partially opened from the bottom and was almost that length last March when I put it into the ground.  The spear split once early in summer, and has recently split again, with both of those still pushing.   Bottom line its moving very slow, considering that all the other one has probably pushed out 5 new fronds in that same period. 

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DoomsDave

How long before baby Presties get big like that?

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Jdiaz31089
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

How long before baby Presties get big like that?

Yea, how long until this little guy looks like that?

20161027_132559.thumb.jpg.b580ab35a2f17c

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Tracy
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

How long before baby Presties get big like that?

Good question Dave.  Both were "head start" plantings for me.  Below is the one that is larger and more representative of what one would expect of a presto, back shortly after planting on 12/1/2014.  Don't ask exactly when I planted it as I don't recall, but it wasn't too long before this.  It was either in a 15 or a squat 20, I don't remember.  So you can see from this size, it moved pretty fast to get where it is today, not quite 2 years later.  To get it to the size at which I got it, is another question.  Most of the other plants below spent several years in my Carlsbad garden before landing in the ground here.  The K. oliviformis in the second shot was planted in late 2010/early 2011 along with a few other things.  Leaves and leaflets in this shot show that it too was a little stretched when planted, and has beefed up over time.  Sadly no close ups found of its base.

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BS Man about Palms

Maybe its time to throw out my guess. The smaller scrawny version I think is the OCWS version of prestoniana... probably from the northern part of Madagascar.. the big guy is likely the big curley version of the same.. most likely from the south end of Madagascar. As noted in various spots around here, It's far easier to spot in a greenhouse/slight shade. In a green house they grow at similar speeds, but the emerging spear will be solid green and the OCWS will be a "two-tone" look with a more yellow or light green petiole with darker green where the leaves will be. 

The proof in the pudding is growing them outside. You can almost do no wrong on the big curley version, whereas the OCWS I think likes high humidity and heat... (Good luck on that in Socal)

 

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DoomsDave
1 hour ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Maybe its time to throw out my guess. The smaller scrawny version I think is the OCWS version of prestoniana... probably from the northern part of Madagascar.. the big guy is likely the big curley version of the same.. most likely from the south end of Madagascar. As noted in various spots around here, It's far easier to spot in a greenhouse/slight shade. In a green house they grow at similar speeds, but the emerging spear will be solid green and the OCWS will be a "two-tone" look with a more yellow or light green petiole with darker green where the leaves will be. 

The proof in the pudding is growing them outside. You can almost do no wrong on the big curley version, whereas the OCWS I think likes high humidity and heat... (Good luck on that in Socal)

 

Bill, as a side note, what do you think the presties sold by Floribunda are? I have a flock of babies . . . .

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Tracy
5 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Maybe its time to throw out my guess. The smaller scrawny version I think is the OCWS version of prestoniana... probably from the northern part of Madagascar.. the big guy is likely the big curley version of the same.. most likely from the south end of Madagascar. As noted in various spots around here, It's far easier to spot in a greenhouse/slight shade. In a green house they grow at similar speeds, but the emerging spear will be solid green and the OCWS will be a "two-tone" look with a more yellow or light green petiole with darker green where the leaves will be. 

The proof in the pudding is growing them outside. You can almost do no wrong on the big curley version, whereas the OCWS I think likes high humidity and heat... (Good luck on that in Socal)

 

Bill shared this with me when he was over a few weeks ago, walking through the garden.  I decided to post and see if anyone else thought the same thing, which was why I think Bill waited to see if anyone else would weigh in with similar thoughts before he biased any opinions.  Obviously, I'm hoping that if Bill is correct, that I have just enough humidity and heat to keep it happy!  As Southern California microclimates go, I do have a good deal of marine influence, so normally some humidity.  My yard has good sun exposure, so at least I'm maximizing the heat I can get.  We will just have to watch as this one roots in, and see.  It's nice having the "control" of the other prestoniana to compare growth and "happiness" :).  So if you have an OCWS, share a photo and let us know about how its doing in your climate!

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Brett in Mission Viejo

When we hosted the PSSC tour last summer, Bill thought mine might be a OCWS Presto version. We talked a bit about it's growth rate, etc. and at the end of the day I think we agreed it was the Big Curly Presto. It has really taken off the last two months and seems to really enjoy the 92F and 10% relative humidity we had this week!

Presto1.thumb.jpg.d9eb59010a3ba6f9dfe48cPresto2.thumb.jpg.f335ed0f807e65aa15cb02

 

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BS Man about Palms
11 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Bill, as a side note, what do you think the presties sold by Floribunda are? I have a flock of babies . . . .

Dave, I have not got or seen any I know are from Floribunda, but once the leafs are 18" or so and only see a bit of sun, they are easily spotted by the two -tone spear.. I have both in "pots" as such right now and the growth is so different. I have a big curley in a 40 gal trashcan That has the sides split open, roots exposed, diminishing soil, sees a lot of sun, and its just a step away from flawless. On the other hand, I have an OCWS version from Pete Balasky that has good soil, occasional sun, some fertilizer and it wants to burn, and is finally getting better. 

I've only seen the OCWS type look decent on the coast.  I'll try to find a thread I thought I started on how to tell the two apart.

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BS Man about Palms

It seems clarification started happening about 2012.. :)

 

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Tracy
1 hour ago, BS Man about Palms said:

It seems clarification started happening about 2012.. :)

5 hours ago, Brett in Mission Viejo said:
5 hours ago, Brett in Mission Viejo said:

When we hosted the PSSC tour last summer, Bill thought mine might be a OCWS Presto version. We talked a bit about it's growth rate, etc. and at the end of the day I think we agreed it was the Big Curly Presto. It has really taken off the last two months and seems to really enjoy the 92F and 10% relative humidity we had this week!

 

I recall that meeting at your house and seeing yours.  To me yours looked more like a sibling to my first one.  My newer plant may be OCWS, or maybe the same as my first plant, just slower to establish and develop roots to support what's happening above the ground.  I'm still on the fence about it, and will likely remain that way for at least another year to see what it does.  I did enjoy reading the earlier posts on the big Dypsis from Bill's link.  Interesting to read about earlier confusion which has been partially sorted out on the big Dypsis.  Still lots of questions to be answered though.  While still confused, I feel like I know a little more!

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Tracy
On 11/11/2016, 8:18:51, BS Man about Palms said:

The smaller scrawny version I think is the OCWS version of prestoniana... probably from the northern part of Madagascar.. the big guy is likely the big curley version of the same.. most likely from the south end of Madagascar.

 

On 11/11/2016, 5:49:43, Brett in Mission Viejo said:

Bill thought mine might be a OCWS Presto version. We talked a bit about it's growth rate, etc. and at the end of the day I think we agreed it was the Big Curly Presto.

A quick bump from last November.  Interesting to see that the newer planting (stretched and id'd as possibly OCWS), is still much narrower in gauge than my other D prestoniana, but the new growth has adjusted to the full sun and came in much shorter.  Despite being a much smaller plant overall still, it is the first of the two to push a flower spathe as seen below.  A comparison of the two plants after a winter and spring of growth.  I guess I'm still hoping that the newer plant starts behaving more like the bigger one!

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Jdiaz31089

You have a wonderful garden Tracy! Those prestononianas are killer!

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Jeff Searle
1 hour ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

You have a wonderful garden Tracy! Those prestononianas are killer!

I agree!

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Tracy
6 hours ago, Jdiaz31089 said:

You have a wonderful garden Tracy! Those prestononianas are killer!

The goal in the pulled back photos was to get both of the Dypsis prestoniana's in the same shot, so you can see the size difference.  I'm still amazed as I think about it that the skinnier looking one is pushing a flower spathe so early compared to the chunky one.  The compliments from you and Jeff Searle on my back yard are appreciated though!

It does seem rather young for the one D prestoniana to be pushing a spathe though right?

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Jdiaz31089

perhaps it has to do with cultural differences. The thin one may be stunted and perhaps generally more stressed, which could explain the earlier flowering. With the two receiving similar cultural treatment in your yard now, perhaps the thin one will catch up with the beefy one with time. 

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Tracy
On 7/5/2017, 10:58:34, Jdiaz31089 said:

The thin one may be stunted and perhaps generally more stressed, which could explain the earlier flowering. With the two receiving similar cultural treatment in your yard now, perhaps the thin one will catch up with the beefy one with time.

It is possible, but the more I read and talk to others, I'm starting to think that the larger one is the "Big Curly", and the other is a different variation of Dypsis prestoniana.  I was looking at photos of Bill Sanford's flower spathe on his Big Curly, and then comparing to mine, and the girth is nowhere near it.  Flowers just opened this morning.

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Josh-O

wow, pretty cool it started to flower at such an early age.

 

Mine at the nursery is pushing up a flower spathe at the moment for the 1st time.. The only difference is mine has at least 15 rings of clear wood trunk.

I wonder why yours flowered at such a young age?

 

great palm Tracy..yours looks awesome :)

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Tracy
3 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

Mine at the nursery is pushing up a flower spathe at the moment for the 1st time.. The only difference is mine has at least 15 rings of clear wood trunk.

I wonder why yours flowered at such a young age?

Yes, I remember you pointed out your flower spathe when I was by last week.  The new fronds which developed completely in the ground are somewhat shorter than the older potted growth due to more sun exposure, but they are now pushing out at a good pace.  The pace of the new leaves opening seems close to on track with my Big Curly version now, they are just much smaller (both length and petiole diameter).   We will have to see how the actual inflorescence compare in appearance on our two palms once yours opens!

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Josh-O
Just now, Tracy said:

Yes, I remember you pointed out your flower spathe when I was by last week.  The new fronds which developed completely in the ground are somewhat shorter than the older potted growth due to more sun exposure, but they are now pushing out at a good pace.  The pace of the new leaves opening seems close to on track with my Big Curly version now, they are just much smaller (both length and petiole diameter).   We will have to see how the actual inflorescence compare in appearance on our two palms once yours opens!

I'll post pictures once the flower opens up.:greenthumb:

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Hilo Jason

Thought I would bump this thread since it got mentioned in a newer thread. Would be great to see updated photos of Tracy's palms and also Josh's flowering one. 

I just planted  this 3 gallon here in my Hilo garden:

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Moose
On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017‎ ‎11‎:‎03‎:‎59‎, Tracy said:

It is possible, but the more I read and talk to others, I'm starting to think that the larger one is the "Big Curly", and the other is a different variation of Dypsis prestoniana.  I was looking at photos of Bill Sanford's flower spathe on his Big Curly, and then comparing to mine, and the girth is nowhere near it.  Flowers just opened this morning.

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Did Bill (BS Man about Palms) give it the Diet Dr. Pepper anointment ?

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Tracy
22 hours ago, Hilo Jason said:

Would be great to see updated photos of Tracy's palms

Here you go... yours will be this size in no time growing in Hawaii Jason!  I'm on the second flowering of the smaller plant, and the larger is holding off for flowering.  It is clear that they behave very differently.

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BS Man about Palms

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Hilo Jason

Thanks for the updated pictures Tracy. Nice to see the small one throwing leaves that look acclimated now. It should only get happier from here on out. 

And wow, your bigger presto is looking awesome!  Very nice!  

As for mine, I'm sure it will get going pretty quick. We just need the sun to come out over here!  It's been a pretty wet month. 

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Tracy
On 3/14/2018, 7:16:15, Hilo Jason said:

Nice to see the small one throwing leaves that look acclimated now. It should only get happier from here on out. 

Foreground is the smaller form, background to the left is the Big Curly form.  The smaller one is looking  more compact as it grows, while originally it looked more stretched, like grown in a greenhouse.

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Tracy
On 7/5/2017 at 10:58 PM, Jdiaz31089 said:

perhaps it has to do with cultural differences. The thin one may be stunted and perhaps generally more stressed, which could explain the earlier flowering. With the two receiving similar cultural treatment in your yard now, perhaps the thin one will catch up with the beefy one with time. 

It has been a while since I looked at this thread but was thinking about it as I look at the two plants now.  Still significantly different in size and overall appearance the fronds on the smaller one are clearly more recurved than the larger Dypsis prestoniana (larger is in background of second photo and in the center of the first photo).  The trunk on the smaller one, which is in the second photo up front has never gained the thickness, yet they both get the same treatment.  Clearly they are different.  My question is whether the smaller variety is a hybrid or just another one of the variants of Dypsis prestoniana.  Feel free to share photos of your Dypsis prestonianas for comparison.

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Tracy

Following up on a request for an updated full look at my Dypsis presontoniana after I posted the trunk in a different post.

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Stevetoad
1 hour ago, Tracy said:

Following up on a request for an updated full look at my Dypsis presontoniana after I posted the trunk in a different post.

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Damn! You gotta be happy with that!

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Hilo Jason

Looking great!!

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realarch

Growing nicely Tracy. Looks so clean and tidy with great color.

Tim

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Tracy

The larger one is soon to have a pair of inflorescence hanging off it as the second begins to emerge.  I'm wondering if anyone in California has had theirs set viable seed?  I have had flowers in the past with some bees paying attention, but nothing beyond that. 

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joe_OC
45 minutes ago, Tracy said:

The larger one is soon to have a pair of inflorescence hanging off it as the second begins to emerge.  I'm wondering if anyone in California has had theirs set viable seed?  I have had flowers in the past with some bees paying attention, but nothing beyond that. 

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There are a lot of seedlings around from Bill Sanford's prestoniana.

 

 

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Tracy
6 minutes ago, joe_OC said:

There are a lot of seedlings around from Bill Sanford's prestoniana.

Good, so there is hope for both of mine!  Thank you for sharing Joe.

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palmsOrl

Here is my small plant.  Not much to see yet, but I have high hopes.

20200612_183534.jpg

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