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All my Cham tuercks: Fall 2016


PalmatierMeg

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I have 5 Chamaedorea tuerckheimii I collected between 5-6 years ago. They are now 15-18" and flowering. Unfortunately, they are pollinated by a tiny wasp that does not exist in the US so I have no chance for seeds. They stay in deep shade almost all year but every spring and fall I pull them out of their cozy grotto for checkups, fertilization, treatment with a miticide and imadacloprid. This fall I repotted them after several years in the same mix. I also document their progress in semi-annual photos that I post here. These are probably my favorite palms and I hope to keep them with me into the future. Enjoy

Chamaedorea tuerckheimii x55810d82ec3b0c_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d840cbfde_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d853b8dd2_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d853b8dd2_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d86660d79_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d882b5e23_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d8a4ad497_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix50

Largest palm

5810d92631228_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d934a002f_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d942bd19d_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix505810d95f45138_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix51

Mottled leaves5810d9980c391_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix51

  • Upvote 13

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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26 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

every spring and fall I pull them out of their cozy grotto for checkups, fertilization, treatment with a miticide and imadacloprid. This fall I repotted them after several years in the same mix. I also document their progress in semi-annual photos that I post here. 

Palm Dr Meg! Looks like you've beaten the odds with these. 

Warrior Palm Princess, Satellite Beach, Florida

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I want one...

The weight of lies will bring you down / And follow you to every town / Cause nothin happens here

That doesn't happen there / So when you run make sure you run / To something and not away from

Cause lies don't need an aero plane / To chase you anywhere

--Avett Bros

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3 minutes ago, topwater said:

Are you using tap water on your potted palms?

No. They get rainwater or recycled water via irrigation. But my tapwater is carbon filtered by a whole house filter. I also have a Pur water filter on my kitchen, so our water is double filtered. In a pinch I could use it but try to avoid doing so. The biggest improvement I've done is keeping them is keeping them in deep shade under a living canopy, which keeps them cooler than ambient air in summer. Tradeoff is they are not on display but are pretty much out of sight.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Well grown!!!!

If I may ask, why do you keep them in pots?

FYI, mine are still in pots as well!

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Nice-looking Veracruz tuercks, Meg. Well done. Both plants I see in flower are males. Do you know whether you have any females in that group?

This topic has been discussed any number of times on this forum and is also outlined in Hodel's monograph, but for newcomers' reference, these palms have rather hard, sticky pollen that is NOT wind-borne and female flowers are tightly-valved until they are receptive. When stigmas are fully receptive, access to the right zone on them is still very difficult even with something as fine as an entomological needle, so dissecting the flowers helps a lot. Unless you have a suitable pollinator around (essentially a tropical gnat), they must be hand-pollinated. I would ask collectors on this forum who believe otherwise and who grown had this species to show evidence they have ever generated any viable seed (i.e. not just parthenocarpic fruit).

After almost 15 years working with them I have produced a small number of the Guatemalan blue form of these palms (as pot plants) into F2. It is my experience that they are incredibly hard to produce viable fruit on, in spite of having large numbers of flowering-sized plants at hand and knowing quite a few pollination tricks. As many here can attest to, seedling mortality is often very high and the plants are very challenging in cultivation for any length of time.

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2 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Well grown!!!!

If I may ask, why do you keep them in pots?

FYI, mine are still in pots as well!

I keep them potted because my soil is calcareous alkaline sand. Many Chamaedorea, i.e., ernesti-augustii, cannot tolerate alkaline soil and quickly decline and die. Also, FL soil is often infested with nematodes that attack many Chams. Also, I can move pots around to avoid sun over the course of a year. A palm this small is not hard to keep in pots.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, stone jaguar said:

Nice-looking Veracruz tuercks, Meg. Well done. Both plants I see in flower are males. Do you know whether you have any females in that group?

This topic has been discussed any number of times on this forum and is also outlined in Hodel's monograph, but for newcomers' reference, these palms have rather hard, sticky pollen that is NOT wind-borne and female flowers are tightly-valved until they are receptive. When stigmas are fully receptive, access to the right zone on them is still very difficult even with something as fine as an entomological needle, so dissecting the flowers helps a lot. Unless you have a suitable pollinator around (essentially a tropical gnat), they must be hand-pollinated. I would ask collectors on this forum who believe otherwise and who grown had this species to show evidence they have ever generated any viable seed (i.e. not just parthenocarpic fruit).

After almost 15 years working with them I have produced a small number of the Guatemalan blue form of these palms (as pot plants) into F2. It is my experience that they are incredibly hard to produce viable fruit on, in spite of having large numbers of flowering-sized plants at hand and knowing quite a few pollination tricks. As many here can attest to, seedling mortality is often very high and the plants are very challenging in cultivation for any length of time.

I don't know if any are female and never bothered to find out - I can't produce viable seeds anyway. Hand pollination is beyond my expertise and from what you say would likely not work anyway. Too bad.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I don't know if any are female and never bothered to find out - I can't produce viable seeds anyway. Hand pollination is beyond my expertise and from what you say would likely not work anyway. Too bad.

I have checked your older photos, and it seems that you have at least one female plant:

Chamaedorea_tuerckheimii_x5_03_10-21-15.

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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50 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

I have checked your older photos, and it seems that you have at least one female plant:

Chamaedorea_tuerckheimii_x5_03_10-21-15.

Viva la difference - for all the good it does.

  • Upvote 1

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Looking great Meg, and I got to see them in person :D, and they look even better in person!

Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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Wow Meg! Those are wonderful!

I have three females and one small fourth plant that I hope will be male! Fingers crossed!

It's a shame yours can't go to "summer camp" in PR and maybe help all to make seeds. I'd love to see yours some day when I visit FL.

Cindy Adair

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5 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I keep them potted because my soil is calcareous alkaline sand. Many Chamaedorea, i.e., ernesti-augustii, cannot tolerate alkaline soil and quickly decline and die. Also, FL soil is often infested with nematodes that attack many Chams. Also, I can move pots around to avoid sun over the course of a year. A palm this small is not hard to keep in pots.

Thanks....valid points.

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11 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I keep them potted because my soil is calcareous alkaline sand. Many Chamaedorea, i.e., ernesti-augustii, cannot tolerate alkaline soil and quickly decline and die. Also, FL soil is often infested with nematodes that attack many Chams. Also, I can move pots around to avoid sun over the course of a year. A palm this small is not hard to keep in pots.

Meg, lets not say things that are not true. I grow ernesti augusti in the ground and also the veracruz tuerks. Add deckeriana to that and add a more calcerous soil than you to the mix. I thought i proved this to you guys... I have about 30 plus chams all doing it. I am just falling out of love with them as they start to look ratty and lanky and start falling over ehh... There are nicer palms to grow-debating redoing my cham section...

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These are my babies.  I bought three plants originally and I've since grown some from seed (the smaller ones).  The 3 larger ones have all flowered and they are all male.  I've got them in the ground and they do fine here.

IMG_0390.JPG

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1 hour ago, Palms4Steve said:

These are my babies.  I bought three plants originally and I've since grown some from seed (the smaller ones).  The 3 larger ones have all flowered and they are all male.  I've got them in the ground and they do fine here.

IMG_0390.JPG

I had the chance to look these beauties in person and they are really nice...

BTW, Steve , where did you buy them , I have been trying to find any for sales and not suceesfull ...

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7 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

Meg, lets not say things that are not true. I grow ernesti augusti in the ground and also the veracruz tuerks. Add deckeriana to that and add a more calcerous soil than you to the mix. I thought i proved this to you guys... I have about 30 plus chams all doing it. I am just falling out of love with them as they start to look ratty and lanky and start falling over ehh... There are nicer palms to grow-debating redoing my cham section...

Andrew, I defer to your greater expertise. But I've tried large ernesti-augustii in the ground over here and they died within months. C. tepejilote also have limited life spans but I plant them anyway. Cape Coral "soil" is a death sentence for some species. I have no intention of experimenting with a palm as rare and valuable as a Cham tuerck.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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14 hours ago, Mohsen said:

I had the chance to look these beauties in person and they are really nice...

BTW, Steve , where did you buy them , I have been trying to find any for sales and not suceesfull ...

Mohsen I bought the larger ones from Equatorial Exotics. It was a few years ago so they may not have any. The smaller ones were seeds from rare palm seeds. They do currently have fesh seed for sales.I did have good results with the seeds. They are a bit pricey but worth it.

Steve

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19 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Andrew, I defer to your greater expertise. But I've tried large ernesti-augustii in the ground over here and they died within months. C. tepejilote also have limited life spans but I plant them anyway. Cape Coral "soil" is a death sentence for some species. I have no intention of experimenting with a palm as rare and valuable as a Cham tuerck.

Over the years, I have come to realize that nothing is permanent. Especially palms! We move--the new owners kill what we loved. I think you also know that often times if we plant ten palms (hypothetically, but this has been demonstrated time and time in the field) then 1 to 3 of them will not make it. It's just life. Chamaedorea are short lived palms to begin with--they are like the squirrels of the palm world, fast and short lived. I have a hard enough time with keeping them standing upright! Having said this, there are some species that are great and reliable in the landscape. 

Meg, I set out to amass a collection of Chamaedorea and thought it would look nice and attractive... well I have a decent collection, in 5 or so years, but all my squirrels look ratty as hell :indifferent:  I understand if you don't want to plant your palms at your house--you know your abilities and limitations better than anyone else, I would hope. Please just don't tell people on here it can't be done, since you choose not to--lots of people on here look up to long time Palmtalkers like us and so I think it's best to not talk absolutes, unless we know unequivocally--I have tested mine out in the ground and have been quite neglectful with them. How long till I can call it a success... I once heard 18 months is a figure. I have gone WAAAAYYY longer than that and still going...

Nematodes... Meg, you just have to ammend your soil. Peat is a great and easy solution to this poor soil. I used to sprinkle it monthly all over my garden. Who knows if Nematodes are really to blame--don't know of any feasable way to test that, but I understand you have heard that as a reason for potential failures. I have too. Jay is a person I respect highly when it comes to Chamaedorea. It really hit home when he mentioned that natural leaf litter is essential for lots of these difficult palms--how many of us remove this, in place of red mulch(Meg, I am not accusing you of using red mulch)??? My point is that nature is the best nurture--look into the canopy trees that rain down on these little squirrels and do your best to duplicate that. With this diligent practice, you should find the best results.

Personally it is not satisfying to grow a palm in a container, ultimately--especially if it is not decorative and by a pool. I see everything as needing to make that unknown relationship with the earth, for ultimate success. Some plants have no business in certain environs, but it is a real treat and feeling of accomplishment when I can create growing harmony with many plants from all over the world. Yes, that's anthropocentric and not natural, but I enjoy fooling myself that it looks natural.

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Gorgeous little chips, Meg!  You take such great care with your plants, nicely done!

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Gorgeous specimens.  What potting mix are you using? 

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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1 hour ago, SubTropicRay said:

Gorgeous specimens.  What potting mix are you using? 

They were in palm/cactus mix with added perlite. When I repotted them I used a coarse organic mix and added 1/2" pumice I bought from a co. in Cali just for this purpose.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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