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Best micro climate in all of Florida ?

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Sandy Loam
8 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

I looked at the Key West airport daily 30 year data through 2019.

So, then Key West is actually USDA zone 12, but the authorities haven't made it official, right? 

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Sandy Loam
8 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

Key West's 30 year average annual low is now 50F.  Marathon and Islamorada 30 year average annual low is 48F

..... This is the quote which I meant to copy, actually. 

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SWFLchris
17 hours ago, ruskinPalms said:

Well. I’ll admit to not reading the whole thread, but did anyone mention Egmont Key here on the west coast? Probably 10B to 11A anyway. 

No one mentioned Snead Island either, I've seen some super tall coconuts out there.

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RedRabbit
2 hours ago, TikiRick said:

I live in East Fort Lauderdale, one mile from the Atlantic Ocean. I am on a river that winds behind me and across the street as well, so in essence I’m on a peninsula into the river.

Ive been here 21 years and the coldest I’ve ever recorded here has been 38F. 
 

As a precaution I grow the tenders in containers so that I can bring them indoors if needed. 
I’ve not lost any palms to cold, but many to hurricanes, salt water intrusion, and ganoderma. 
 

I’d say I’m a solid 10b. 

F42C26CF-2F0C-463E-A1B1-E4285BFC0EE6.png

That sure sounds like zone 11 to me. I’m not sure how far north zone 11 goes, but I’m pretty sure coastal Broward is over the mark. 

1 hour ago, SWFLchris said:

No one mentioned Snead Island either, I've seen some super tall coconuts out there.

The whole south shore of Tampa Bay is pretty great. AMI gets most of the focus, but the microclimate is exceptionally good all the way to Ruskin. :)

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Steve in Florida
5 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

So, then Key West is actually USDA zone 12, but the authorities haven't made it official, right? 

They are always behind in their publications and they like to confirm and double check data.  They may still not be considered zone 12 because they might be off .10 F. 

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Dave-Vero

In Florida, proximity to water, even small lakes, protects from frost and even some freezes.  Orlando's Leu Gardens has remarkable variability of low temperatures on cold, still nights around the grounds based on distance to their lake.

Restoration of the St.  Johns River marshes seems to have improved the climate for Indian River County.  

In the Miami area, Homestead can get genuinely cold on nights when more coastal areas are quite a bit warmer (like Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden).   Far inland and to the north, Bok Tower Gardens seems to benefit from its hilltop position.  Cold air drains downhill on those cold, still nights.   They grow bromeliads pretty successfully.  

Rainfall is highly variable in the Keys, high near the mainland, about 50% lower at Key West.  That can be made up with irrigation, but the Keys aqueduct is kind of limited in capacity.

 

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sonoranfans

proximity to water is huge in florida, agreed.  And ideally you want that water all around you or at the least, between you and where the cold from is coming from.   this means the south shore side of okeechobee is definitely better, and not for the latitude.  The cold air will warm up as it crosses the water.  The 2010 front showed me that pinellas county, surrounded by water was notably warmer than land to the east and north.  The "canaries of that coal mine" were the zone 10 palms.  On the south west pinellas peninsula and anna maria island the lows were a few degrees higher than sarasota and further south because of the water all around.  I was looking for homes at the time and I just followed roads inland till I saw the damage on zone 10 palms spike up and made comparisons.  You could see it on many public plantings of dypsis lutescens out in the open.  No burn near the gulf but as I crossed the peninsula west to east burn increased to ~50% then backed off as I approached the bay.  I was definitely warmer on the gulf side(no damage) but coldest and  most Lutescens burn near the middle/east side of peninsula and then warmer close to the bay.

 

But the best microclimate is down in southeast florida near the water.

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waykoolplantz

If I’m the only one with C Renda in the ground (and yes it survived our 2010 freeze) In S Florida I might have the best micro climate.

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Kaname-kun

It looks to me that coastal Fort Lauderdale hasn't dropped below 40 since that December 2010 near-freeze, making it 11a.  I've had Cyrtostachys renda in the ground for several years in Wilton Manors, on the Middle River. But as always, fingers crossed. Verschaffeltia, too. Phoenicophorium is still in pots, but I don't take them in on the occasional low-40s night and so far so good.

 

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Steve in Florida
11 hours ago, Kaname-kun said:

It looks to me that coastal Fort Lauderdale hasn't dropped below 40 since that December 2010 near-freeze, making it 11a.  I've had Cyrtostachys renda in the ground for several years in Wilton Manors, on the Middle River. But as always, fingers crossed. Verschaffeltia, too. Phoenicophorium is still in pots, but I don't take them in on the occasional low-40s night and so far so good.

 

But the annual low was 36-38F for 5 out of 10 years during the previous 10 years.

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RedRabbit
58 minutes ago, Steve in Florida said:

But the annual low was 36-38F for 5 out of 10 years during the previous 10 years.

By the beach? :hmm:

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Steve in Florida
21 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

By the beach? :hmm:

On the beach, 1,000 feet from the Atlantic Ocean and 300 feet east of Sunrise Bay.

 

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Kaname-kun
12 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

But the annual low was 36-38F for 5 out of 10 years during the previous 10 years.

According to US Climate Data.com, after 2010 (a very cold winter), there have only been two nights that dropped to 39.9 and nothing below that. Living on the water, as I do, our low temps are always several degrees higher than the recorded lows, so I'm discounting the 39.9s, which were 43s here.  Someone in Miami just wrote me complaining about two nights in January that dropped into the 30s. Can that be right? It was never lower than 42 here in waterside Fort Lauderdale. 

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JJPalmer
17 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

But the annual low was 36-38F for 5 out of 10 years during the previous 10 years.

I have broken the data below into three time blocks: 2000-Present, 2010-Present, 2011-Present.  I can pull additional stations and date ranges upon request. 

According to the NWS COOP Daily Climatology information (see below link for access) - the low temperature at the airport in Fort Lauderdale has recorded temperatures below 40 degrees 15 times since 2000. This includes 7 instances in 2010.  Since 1/1/2011, the temperature at the airport has only dipped into the 30's twice - both times at 39 degrees (once on 1/22/20).

The Miami International Airport had 12 instances of temperatures below 40 degrees from 2000-now, 5 instances in 2010, and zero instances since 2011. 

West Palm Beach had 47, 25, and 8 days respectively over those three time blocks. 

Canal Point (a few miles north of Pahokee - i.e. a slightly worse climate) recorded 41, 17, and 7 days, respectively. In my opinion, it seems safe to say that Pahokee is warmer than West Palm Beach.  For perspective, Belle Glade a few miles south and off the coast of Okeechobee recorded 95, 45, and 20 days below 40 for the respective time frames.

St. Petersburg (Albert Whitted) has recorded 25, 16, and 9 days, respectively - fewer days than West Palm Beach.

DATA: https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/request/coop/fe.phtml?network=FLCLIMATE

 

 

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JJPalmer
57 minutes ago, JJPalmer said:

I have broken the data below into three time blocks: 2000-Present, 2010-Present, 2011-Present.  I can pull additional stations and date ranges upon request. 

According to the NWS COOP Daily Climatology information (see below link for access) - the low temperature at the airport in Fort Lauderdale has recorded temperatures below 40 degrees 15 times since 2000. This includes 7 instances in 2010.  Since 1/1/2011, the temperature at the airport has only dipped into the 30's twice - both times at 39 degrees (once on 1/22/20).

The Miami Beach had 12 instances of temperatures below 40 degrees from 2000-now, 5 instances in 2010, and zero instances since 2011. 

West Palm Beach had 47, 25, and 8 days respectively over those three time blocks. 

Canal Point (a few miles north of Pahokee - i.e. a slightly worse climate) recorded 41, 17, and 7 days, respectively. In my opinion, it seems safe to say that Pahokee is warmer than West Palm Beach.  For perspective, Belle Glade a few miles south and off the coast of Okeechobee recorded 95, 45, and 20 days below 40 for the respective time frames.

St. Petersburg (Albert Whitted) has recorded 25, 16, and 9 days, respectively - fewer days than West Palm Beach.

DATA: https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/request/coop/fe.phtml?network=FLCLIMATE

 

 

The above text meant to say Miami Beach - not Miami International Airport.  Miami Airport has shockingly recorded fewer days below 30: 10, 6, 0.

In addition the absolute minimum temperatures from locations above since 2000:

St Petersburg: 32

Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, West Palm Beach, Canal Point: 34

Miami International Airport: 35

 

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JJPalmer

The NWS Chicago office tweeted a satellite image measuring the temperatures on the surface of the earth, making it easy to pick out the warmest and coldest areas. Would be interesting to see the same version on a “cold” Florida night. 
 

 

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Jimbean

with that resolution, not yet

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JJPalmer
4 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

with that resolution, not yet

Sure, with ~3km resolution you’re not going to get the cleanest picture or have an ability to find the small microclimates. If NWS posts one for the area, don’t bother looking I guess. I’ll still find it interesting.

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RedRabbit
13 hours ago, JJPalmer said:

Sure, with ~3km resolution you’re not going to get the cleanest picture or have an ability to find the small microclimates. If NWS posts one for the area, don’t bother looking I guess. I’ll still find it interesting.

It looks useful to me. :greenthumb:

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palmsOrl

I think I already responded to the original topic but just in case...

Key West or the Dry Tortugas.

On the mainland, the islands off the coast south of Miami, and Miami Beach.

Inland South FL, those areas of South Florida on the south Shore of Lake Okeechobee.

In Central Florida, one of the islands in the south Tampa Bay area.

North FL not sure.

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Jimbean

It also depends on how specific of a context you are talking about and what your purpose is.

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RedRabbit
On 5/10/2020 at 10:46 PM, palmsOrl said:

In Central Florida, one of the islands in the south Tampa Bay area.

Interesting choice, I figured you'd go with somewhere like Indialantic. 

 

On 5/10/2020 at 10:46 PM, palmsOrl said:

North FL not sure.

Ponte Vedra Beach seems to be the best spot, or perhaps along the eastern bank of the St. Johns.

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waykoolplantz

the proof is in the ground. come see fo yo self. social distanced garden tours.

Maps might keep the speculation alive.

wearing the Lay Z Boy out ?

A660C194-7D47-4C94-B919-F1FD6C451A55.jpeg

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