Best micro climate in all of Florida ?

[Walt]

Here's two more coconut palms (from two different angles) on Sudbury Drive in Lake Placid. No lake effect here, only high ground. They took a hit in December of 2010 but recovered nicely. I found more, even taller coconut palms in town but they are in the back yards of homes, and I can't get a clear camera shot on them. I can only see the crowns sticking up above the roof of the houses.

 

[Yunder Wækraus]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

Here's two more coconut palms (from two different angles) on Sudbury Drive in Lake Placid. No lake effect here, only high ground. They took a hit in December of 2010 but recovered nicely. I found more, even taller coconut palms in town but they are in the back yards of homes, and I can't get a clear camera shot on them. I can only see the crowns sticking up above the roof of the houses.

 

I don't think I've seen any coconuts with crowns that full on our barrier island in Brevard County. Nice!

[trioderob]

nice crown

[Walt]

This thread is about microclimates, and I submit most of the town (at elevation) of Lake Placid is a microclimate (or more appropriately, a mesoclimate, due to the geographical area size) with respect to the same inland latitudes that are not at elevation. Basically, if you get a map and draw a line from the center of Sarasota to the center of Port St. Lucie, Lake Placid is in the center of them both. Sarasota and Port St. Lucie enjoy the water (Gulf/Atlantic)  thermal benefit to hold up winter nighttime air temperatures, Lake Placid enjoys an elevation benefit, plus some thermal benefit of 12 lakes that surround the town.

At the link below, Lake Placid is right where the US 27 road sign symbol is (just below Sylvan Shores, where I live).

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3150109,-81.3692544,9.51z

The owner of a local nursery (who lived in Miami for 45 years) told me it was actually warmer on winter nights in downtown Lake Placid then longitudinal inland points 75-100 miles south, due to elevation. She told me this 15 years ago when I was still learning to understand the climate around here. I never really gave elevation any thought, that is until I experienced the January 5, 2001 radiational freeze and my garden was virtually wiped out, as I recorded very low 20s. Archbold Biological Station (8 miles south in the Highland County cold pocket) tied their all-time record low of 13 degrees). But I drove up into town and the bougainvilleas were in bloom (mine were melted to the ground), the big traveler's palm in town was untouched (yet my big white bird of paradise was fried), banana leaves untouched (mine totally brown and hanging).

That's when I first realized the value of relative elevation, air inversion (where warm air rises and colder air sinks -- to my place).

Since then I've witnessed the value of elevation at my own property. I have pothos vines growing 50 feet up tall slash pines, plus I have a near 50 feet high Ficus altissima tree in my front yard. On many radiational cooling nights, as a result, my pothos vines (and leaves on my ficus) will get cold damaged 10, 15, maybe 20 feet up in elevation, then the damage stops (or tapers of 2-3 feet in a transition zone and the damage fully stops). Where the damage (defoliation) stops indicates basically where the 30 degree line reached to. Above that the temperature remained above 30 degrees.

This winter I'm going to conduct an experiment at my property. I just recently lost a huge clump of Bambusa oldhamii. I have some trimmed culms that are 50 feet long. I plan on taking a culm, affixing a digital thermometer transmitting sensor (to my base station thermometer) and monitoring the temperature at 50 feet above my yard. (I will stand the bamboo culm up and secure it.) At the 6 feet mark of the bamboo culm I will affix a second sensor to record the temperature at that point.  I will take photos of the set up and post them, plus the results I get. I'm plan to conduct the tests on the first night of the cold front when it's windy, then again on the 2nd and 3rd nights when the wind is usually calm -- that is when the greatest temperature difference in elevation should be apparent.

[Walt]

The below coconut palm is growing on the south shore of Lake Clay, just east of US 27 at Lake Placid. I took one shot from the road the residence fronts. The other shot I took from across the lake (just a narrow finger of the lake, the lake is much larger off the finger of the lake).

Note how the land slopes (look a chain link fence) to the lake, as most lakes our here are sink hole lakes. Thus, cold air drains off to the lake and warmer lake air drifts up.

 

[Walt]

I have little idea knowing just how many nice palms and zone 10 type of plants I may be missing around the lakes because there's no way I can see in the back yards which back to the lakes. I would need to circumvent the lakes in a boat. I don't own a small boat (nor do I want to) so I don't know if I ever will be able to see what all is planted around the lakes. In any event, I can at least photograph what I see in front of the houses.

Here's two palms, I believe some species of veitchia growing two houses down from the coconut palm I posted above. I think this house has some coconut palms growing down by the lake. I can't tell from the street but when I drove around to the other side of the lake I saw a couple of coconut that appeared to be in the same yard.

 

[RedRabbit]

That is pretty impressive Walt. You go from low end 9b to 10b in short order.

[Walt]

3 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

That is pretty impressive Walt. You go from low end 9b to 10b in short order.

Yes, there's nothing monolithic with regard to wintertime low temperatures out here in the inland. I'd say most winters it ranges from 9a (low outlying areas) to 10b around the lakes and high ground. I know the winter of 2005-2006 the temperature on the east shore of Lake June never dropped below 41 degrees -- yet I had a 27 degree low that winter on February 14th. It was a radiational freeze. It's almost unbelievable how the low temperature can vary in such a short distance. I would be skeptical of it myself had I not experienced it first hand.

[Walt]

Across Lake Clay from the house with the coconut palm I could see the top of what looked like a tall palm. I zoomed in closer and it looked like maybe Caryota maxima, but I'm not at all sure. As I looked closer I could see a very tall royal palm and next to it on the right a good sized majesty palm. I drove over to the road (Alderman Drive) to try and find the residence these palms are growing on. I didn't see the home owners or I would have inquired about the palms. I have no idea what other palms they might have on their property, but right out front was a nice Copernicia alba. I will post a photo of that later. That is the only Copernicia alba (other than my own) that I've seen in all of Highlands County.

Anyway, the royal palm in the below photo has obviously been growing for many decades considering the height of it. I know on the other side of the Lake Clay there are lots of old royal palms planted back in the 1950s, along with huge Ficus benghalensis trees.

 

[Walt]

Here is the Copernicia alba (or prunifera?) growing in front of the house that the royal palm is growing by the lake shown in above photo. I just find it odd that the homeowner has a Copernicia alba growing on their property, as there is no availability now (let alone years ago) of this palm at any of the nurseries. On occasion I drive by this house in hopes the owner would be out in the front yard so I could ask them about the palms.

 

[Walt]

Below are two more coconut palms growing on the south shore of Lake Clay. These are just one or two yards too the west where the single coconut palm I posted above is growing.

 

[tropical1]

To Walt and others 

This is a very interesting topic. Since I live on a sinkhole lake north of Tampa with some elevation change I thought I would comment. The area we are in has a number of lakes. The lake we live on is about 38ft above sea level and most of our property is probably about  50ft above sea level.  Even though we are not on the most favorable side of the lake (west side). There is a considerable favorable microclimate most notably in the backyard facing the lake. In particular, I can tell you during 2010 we had way less damage than most of the coastal areas in pinellas county including parts of st Pete and Clearwater. 

I think it is the combination of the lake and the elevation. As Walt notes, on a cold night you can watch cold air turn to steam as it drains down the slope to the lake. So as others have said the proof is in what grows, and we have large royal palms (30-40ft), foxtails (25ft), bismarkia, archontophoenix, pseudophoenix, kentiopsis, thrinax, coccothrinax, Pritchardia, veitchia, caryota, and more. Many of these are large specimens and some have been grown from seed or seedlings. Other Tropicals include a 30-40 foot lychee tree, fruiting mangos, jackfruit, avocados, longan, royal poinciana, rainbow eucalyptus (50ft) and others.

In terms of coconuts, I have tried to grow from seed before with no success. It was much earlier when the property had less canopy and recently I lost one that was planted near the lake due to the flood (not cold). I am planning to try again (didn't get around to it this summer) but when I do will probably plant one with 3-4 of clear wood in spring. I think the larger palms with the canopy higher off the ground will be the way to go. 

another example of elevation making a striking difference was on pine island. We visited the island after one of the major freezes and there were two large coconut fields on either side of a sand road. The one field was probably 3-5 foot higher than the other. Amazingly the higher field was completely untocuhed whereas the field on lower ground looked like someone had taken a blow torch to it. The entire canopy on the low field was brown. In Florida, very little elevation change can make a big difference.

[Walt]

14 minutes ago, tropical1 said:

To Walt and others 

This is a very interesting topic. Since I live on a sinkhole lake north of Tampa with some elevation change I thought I would comment. The area we are in has a number of lakes. The lake we live on is about 38ft above sea level and most of our property is probably about  50ft above sea level.  Even though we are not on the most favorable side of the lake (west side). There is a considerable favorable microclimate most notably in the backyard facing the lake. In particular, I can tell you during 2010 we had way less damage than most of the coastal areas in pinellas county including parts of st Pete and Clearwater. 

I think it is the combination of the lake and the elevation. As Walt notes, on a cold night you can watch cold air turn to steam as it drains down the slope to the lake. So as others have said the proof is in what grows, and we have large royal palms (30-40ft), foxtails (25ft), bismarkia, archontophoenix, pseudophoenix, kentiopsis, thrinax, coccothrinax, Pritchardia, veitchia, caryota, and more. Many of these are large specimens and some have been grown from seed or seedlings. Other Tropicals include a 30-40 foot lychee tree, fruiting mangos, jackfruit, avocados, longan, royal poinciana, rainbow eucalyptus (50ft) and others.

In terms of coconuts, I have tried to grow from seed before with no success. It was much earlier when the property had less canopy and recently I lost one that was planted near the lake due to the flood (not cold). I am planning to try again (didn't get around to it this summer) but when I do will probably plant one with 3-4 of clear wood in spring. I think the larger palms with the canopy higher off the ground will be the way to go. 

another example of elevation making a striking difference was on pine island. We visited the island after one of the major freezes and there were two large coconut fields on either side of a sand road. The one field was probably 3-5 foot higher than the other. Amazingly the higher field was completely untocuhed whereas the field on lower ground looked like someone had taken a blow torch to it. The entire canopy on the low field was brown. In Florida, very little elevation change can make a big difference.

Yes, the west side of Florida lakes is the less favorable side, but that basically only holds true as a cold front is coming in. Almost invariably (from my experience) the cold fronts come from the N.W., so the west side of the lake doesn't get the warming lake effect while the cold wind is coming in. However, again from my experience, when the front is coming in the cold isn't as cold as it will be on the second night of the front -- when the nighttime wind dies. That's when radiational cooling sets in and ground heat is lost very fast to the atmosphere above it. But since there is no wind, the west side of the lake does get the warming lake effect. Further, from my experience, radiational cooling nights comprise 90-95% of the coldest winter nights -- so the lake effect definitely have a positive effect as to what can be grown around them.

The S.E. side of the lake is the best side since the fronts come in from the N.W. and the air has to cross the lake, thereby tempering the air, making it warmer by the time it reaches the other side. The bigger the lake the better.

Right now I've been posting photos of zone 10+ palms growing around Lake Clay (I live about one mile N.E. of the lake. Even on the west side of the lake there are trunked coconut palms, big royal palms, big foxtails, solitaire palms, 30 feet high shefflera actinophylla trees, huge Ficus microcarpa trees, etc. Hands down, residents on the west side of a good sized lake will enjoy warmer winter nighttime temperatures than those just one or two block farther west.

BTW, sink hole lakes out here are far higher in elevation than in your area, as they are ridge lakes (Lake Wales Ridge). But Lake Istokpoga (our largest lake) is off the ridge (east of ridge) and is somewhere around 35 feet or so above sea level. Still, there are very large royal palms on the east side of the lake, plus some trunked coconut palms.

[PalmTreeDude]

45 minutes ago, Walt said:

Below are two more coconut palms growing on the south shore of Lake Clay. These are just one or two yards too the west where the single coconut palm I posted above is growing.

 

Nice!

[RedRabbit]

35 minutes ago, tropical1 said:

To Walt and others 

This is a very interesting topic. Since I live on a sinkhole lake north of Tampa with some elevation change I thought I would comment. The area we are in has a number of lakes. The lake we live on is about 38ft above sea level and most of our property is probably about  50ft above sea level.  Even though we are not on the most favorable side of the lake (west side). There is a considerable favorable microclimate most notably in the backyard facing the lake. In particular, I can tell you during 2010 we had way less damage than most of the coastal areas in pinellas county including parts of st Pete and Clearwater. 

I think it is the combination of the lake and the elevation. As Walt notes, on a cold night you can watch cold air turn to steam as it drains down the slope to the lake. So as others have said the proof is in what grows, and we have large royal palms (30-40ft), foxtails (25ft), bismarkia, archontophoenix, pseudophoenix, kentiopsis, thrinax, coccothrinax, Pritchardia, veitchia, caryota, and more. Many of these are large specimens and some have been grown from seed or seedlings. Other Tropicals include a 30-40 foot lychee tree, fruiting mangos, jackfruit, avocados, longan, royal poinciana, rainbow eucalyptus (50ft) and others.

In terms of coconuts, I have tried to grow from seed before with no success. It was much earlier when the property had less canopy and recently I lost one that was planted near the lake due to the flood (not cold). I am planning to try again (didn't get around to it this summer) but when I do will probably plant one with 3-4 of clear wood in spring. I think the larger palms with the canopy higher off the ground will be the way to go. 

another example of elevation making a striking difference was on pine island. We visited the island after one of the major freezes and there were two large coconut fields on either side of a sand road. The one field was probably 3-5 foot higher than the other. Amazingly the higher field was completely untocuhed whereas the field on lower ground looked like someone had taken a blow torch to it. The entire canopy on the low field was brown. In Florida, very little elevation change can make a big difference.

That's very interesting! I wouldn't have guessed Odessa could be that warm. I was driving around Lake Carroll on Saturday and was disappointed basically nothing tropical was there, but it seems like the microclimate around these lakes should be pretty good. There's a Wunderground station on the east side to Twin Lake that has been recording avg. annual lows similar to Davis Island. 

[Walt]

More coconut palms (unkempt of sorts) on Lake Pearl (south side of town, Lake Placid).

 

[Walt]

And some more untrimmed coconut palms on Lake Pearl.

 

[Walt]

Double royal palm on east shore of Lake Serena. You can just make out lake in distance.

 

[Walt]

Another royal palm on the east shore of Lake Serena:

 

[Walt]

Above photo is in the Placid Lakes subdivision on Orange Rd. N.E., located on the south side of Lake June.

Above photo is in the Placid Lakes subdivision on Lakefront Ct., located on the south shore of Lake June.

 

[Walt]

Below are photos of the first coconut palm I ever spotted in Highlands County when I moved here in 1997. Frankly, I was quite surprised. This palm is about one block from Lake Istokpoga, and on the N.W. end of the lake (the coldest part). As you can see from the date, this palm was totally defoliate on the morning of January 5, 2001 (photo take subsequent to freeze after damage was fully apparent). In subsequent winters this palm has received some cold damage. Not every winter, but a few over the last 15 years. The last winter this palm was damaged (major) was in December of 2010. Since then it has recovered but it appears now it is suffering from power line decline.

I also noticed a neighbor has planted a new coconut palm. I was delighted to see this. Now I have another coconut palm to track, and for comparison purposes.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Walt

[Walt]

The below coconut palm is growing in the small subdivision of Waters Edge, located on the extreme N.W. end of Lake Huntley, just south of the Lake Placid city limits (about two miles south of my property). This palm actually survived the December 2010 freeze fairly well, as shown from the Google June 2011 Street View.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.2960317,-81.3511655,3a,75y,26.34h,83.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWWXCj38stE6YgqHcltTy3g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

 

 

[tropical1]

I will try to post  some pics of our palms by the lake. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by tropical1

[Walt]

Spindle palm and pandanus just a few doors down from the coconut palm in the Waters Edge subdivision, Lake Placid.

 

 

 

 

[RedRabbit]

23 hours ago, tropical1 said:

I will try to post  some pics of our palms by the lake. 

Please do, I'd be very interested to see what all is growing up there.  

[Walt]

This older royal palm is growing in the front yard of a lake front home at the N.W. end of Lake Huntley (about two miles from my place). It has the less typical fatter trunk than most newer royals I see planted around here. In fact, all the older royals (some I know dating back to the 1950s) have skinnier trunks).

 

[trioderob]

some epic palms in this thread

[Walt]

Below are two royal palms growing along Highlands Lakes Dr., about 800 feet west of Lake Istokpoga (about 5 miles N.E. of the town of Lake Placid. These palms were badly hurt from the prolonged cold of December 2010, but seem no worse for wear now.

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2016‎ ‎6‎:‎49‎:‎21‎, Walt said:

This older royal palm is growing in the front yard of a lake front home at the N.W. end of Lake Huntley (about two miles from my place). It has the less typical fatter trunk than most newer royals I see planted around here. In fact, all the older royals (some I know dating back to the 1950s) have skinnier trunks).

 

Hey Walt,

I think the thinner trunked royals are the true Florida Royal Palm, whereas the fatter trunked royals are probably the Cuban Royal Palm, which is the one sold by nurseries and planted by landscaping companies.  When I lived over there, the Cuban Royals always seemed to have a fatter and always straight and somewhat shorter trunk, and the Florida Royals always seemed to have a thinner and taller, and occasionally bent trunk.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

I think the thinner trunked royals are the true Florida Royal Palm, whereas the fatter trunked royals are probably the Cuban Royal Palm, which is the one sold by nurseries and planted by landscaping companies.  When I lived over there, the Cuban Royals always seemed to have a fatter and always straight and somewhat shorter trunk, and the Florida Royals always seemed to have a thinner and taller, and occasionally bent trunk.

John

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Just now, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

 

By the way, I have both in my yard, and I think my Florida Royal is the only Florida Royal in Corpus Christi.  My Florida Royal is younger than my Cuban Royal, but over the next year will probably overtake my Cuban Royal in height, and it has a skinnier trunk than my Cuban Royal.  I still think there is a distinct difference in them, which is why I will always classify them as different Roystoneas.

John

[Walt]

6 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

 

John, coincidentally, that's what I've always opined -- that the skinner trunked royals were Roystonea elata (Florida royal) and the fatter trunked royals were Roystonea regia  regardless of what some books say to the contrary).

Of course, giving a royal lots of water over it's early growing life may induce a fatter trunk caliber, so that could be the main cause as to why so many royal palms today I see being planted in my area have fairly fat trunks. I know first hand how frequent irrigation can induce trunk girth in palms, sometimes to the point of longitudinal splitting. I've seen this with Archontophonix alexandrae palms. I grew a large batch of these palms and planted out many on my property in the dry sandy soil. The only irrigation they got was by hand watering on occasion a rain. Out of the same batch I sold around 25 alexander palms to a person to line their circular driveway with, who had daily irrigation. After two years or so I was astounded has to how much fatter the trunks of his palms were than mine (which got only a fraction of the water), and that also goes for the size of the palm fronds. His palms were just far more stout than mine.

About less than 1/4 mile from the royal palm I posted a pic of (that you responded to) there are maybe 25 or so more. All have the skinnier trunks. These palms are growing on a 13 acre parcel of land that fronts the S.E. shore of Lake Clay (about a mile from my place). Back in 2004 the owner (wife) of this property allowed me to browse around. Sje told me her husband's father planted the royal palms back in the 1950s, along with huge (now) Ficus benghalensis trees and other exotic trees.

I plan to contact the owner again to allow me to re tour the property and take lots of pics and video. This time I want to talk to her husband, as he inherited the property and was a kid or possibly in his early teens when his father planted all the exotic stuff. I posted photos of some of the royal palms and various ficus trees many years ago here at Palmtalk. I'll see if I still have some of those photos in my Photobucket account. If so, I may post a few of them until I get updated photos.

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

13 hours ago, Walt said:

John, coincidentally, that's what I've always opined -- that the skinner trunked royals were Roystonea elata (Florida royal) and the fatter trunked royals were Roystonea regia  regardless of what some books say to the contrary).

Of course, giving a royal lots of water over it's early growing life may induce a fatter trunk caliber, so that could be the main cause as to why so many royal palms today I see being planted in my area have fairly fat trunks. I know first hand how frequent irrigation can induce trunk girth in palms, sometimes to the point of longitudinal splitting. I've seen this with Archontophonix alexandrae palms. I grew a large batch of these palms and planted out many on my property in the dry sandy soil. The only irrigation they got was by hand watering on occasion a rain. Out of the same batch I sold around 25 alexander palms to a person to line their circular driveway with, who had daily irrigation. After two years or so I was astounded has to how much fatter the trunks of his palms were than mine (which got only a fraction of the water), and that also goes for the size of the palm fronds. His palms were just far more stout than mine.

About less than 1/4 mile from the royal palm I posted a pic of (that you responded to) there are maybe 25 or so more. All have the skinnier trunks. These palms are growing on a 13 acre parcel of land that fronts the S.E. shore of Lake Clay (about a mile from my place). Back in 2004 the owner (wife) of this property allowed me to browse around. Sje told me her husband's father planted the royal palms back in the 1950s, along with huge (now) Ficus benghalensis trees and other exotic trees.

I plan to contact the owner again to allow me to re tour the property and take lots of pics and video. This time I want to talk to her husband, as he inherited the property and was a kid or possibly in his early teens when his father planted all the exotic stuff. I posted photos of some of the royal palms and various ficus trees many years ago here at Palmtalk. I'll see if I still have some of those photos in my Photobucket account. If so, I may post a few of them until I get updated photos.

 

Hey Walt,

I think the books are wrong in their reclassification of elates as regias.  Mine get about the same amount of water, and yet there is a distinct difference in trunk diameter, and the leaves on my Florida Royal actually seem larger and more robust even though it has a thinner trunk.  ( I don't recall if that is common among Florida Royals when I lived over there, or if that is just something unique to my palm- the larger more robust leaves.)

Both of my royals would actually be considerably larger if I could keep them watered more.  Our annual average rainfall at my place is only about 30.5" per year (the airport about 20 miles inland from here gets 31.76" per year average).  My water bill last month was $152!  I really need to get the trim on my house replaced and get a gutter system put up so I can get some rainwater harvesting tanks.  I have a nice alexandrae that would look even nicer if I could keep it watered more too.  I have had better luck with my alexandrae than I have had with my cunninghamiana.  My cunning. is in a pot though, and my alex. is in the ground, but still my cunning. should look a lot better than what it does.

I would venture to say that those nearby royals planted in the '50's are probably Florida Royals, as I doubt there were a lot of Cuban Royals being imported back then for the landscaping and nursery industry.  And since you mentioned that they all have skinnier trunks, I would certainly bet that they are Florida Royals.  Speaking of ficus, that is something I would like to see more of around here.  We have a few sporadic ficus around Corpus Christi.  The benghalensis probably look the best here, followed by elasticas, then benjaminas.  I have a Florida Strangler Fig in my yard, a benjamina, and the paddle shaped leaf ficus that has a leaf that looks like a mistletoe leaf.  There is a nice one of those at the Botanical Gardens here that I just saw today, but unfortunately it wasn't labeled, and I can't recall the name of the paddle shaped one.  Also, there are a few Fiddle Leaf Figs here too.

If you have a chance to talk to the property owner there, I am curious where his father got the royals from.  Maybe if you have time, you could eventually post some before and after photos of the royals and ficus there to compare how much they have grown over the years.

John

[RedRabbit]

I thought I'd comment about an observation tonight of St. Petersburg. Much has been said about the Whitted site, being on the warm end of 10b even, but the images below show the readings from that location are surprisingly high. Even nearby locations are up to 9f colder.

 

Edited November 21, 2016 by RedRabbit

[Walt]

7 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I thought I'd comment about an observation tonight of St. Petersburg. Much has been said about the Whitted site, being on the warm end of 10b even, but the images below show the readings from that location are surprisingly high. Even nearby locations are up to 9f colder.

 

The proof of the pudding(in winter) will always be around sun up, when the night's temperature will be the lowest. For my place that is generally around 7:30 a.m. Plus, it's too early in the season to draw valid conclusions. I'd say the month of January (specifically mid January) and maybe the first week or two of February will be the best representative time to determine a given location's microclimate value. But even with this cold front today your graphic shows it to be warmer by the water -- which is invariably the case over the entire course of winter.

I just checked some locations and found it was colder in Ft. Myers (from the WINK News TV Station website), at 47 degrees than at the Sebring, Fl. FAWN site at 49 degrees. This was at 5:45 a.m. It was also 49 degrees at Lake Placid Elementary school STEM Weather Underground site (both locations at elevation relative to Ft. Myers).

I also checked WINK's temperature graphic and it showed the warmest area in Orlando to be right at and just above the airport. Lake Okeechobee showed to be warm like that of S.E. coastal Florida.

[Gecrabill]

I live in Sarasota off Clark Rd. About 3/4 mile crows flight from the bay. I work on the north side of St Petersburg right before the howard franklin bridge (that goes to Tampa), the temperature really varies based on wind direction. This morning at 615am I left my home and it was 51 degrees. As I made my way into I75 the temperature dipped to about 48-51 varying from Sarasota to the Skyway bridge. As I proceeded over Tampa bay, the temperature rose to 62 degrees (now 6:45am), but to mid 50,s once down the main hump, then low 50's as I got into inhabited part past the bridge, and ultimately to 49 as I pulled into work, now 7:20. Due to the wind direction, I would say all the land on the west side of the bay were much much warmer due to the east wind and the bay being right at 70 degrees. However, a wind out if the west would have made a big difference. This is our first temperature dip of the season and as the bay and gulf cool, the effects will be less drastic. Furthermore as spring comes around the cooler water also keeps the St Petersburg area cooler during the day. Regardless of time of year, on my drive home, I notice temperatures are warmer in Sarasota than St Pete. By varying amounts.. but take it for what its worth, it is my car's thermometer.

[kinzyjr]

Obviously, for most favorable climate, Key West, Miami, etc are mentioned.  I side with St. Pete Beach, though.  The temperature scale is very compressed due to the large amount of gulf influence, and summer isn't quite as blistering hot as it is inland or further south.  There are a number of days when it was 95F+ in my yard, but St. Pete Beach didn't even crack 90F.  As far as winter, the record lows don't come near matching what Key West or Miami could offer, but there are mature coconuts there, even after the 2010 freeze.  I've been to all of the cities mentioned, and if I had to move to one of them, I would choose St. Pete Beach without hesitation.

That being said, being in solid Zone 9a here in Lakeland is not what I consider a punishment.

[displaced_floridian]

On September 23, 2016 at 8:33:57 PM, trioderob said:

ok so in key west what can you grow thats really crazy like double cocos - stuff like dat ?

Cyrtostachys Renda without protection!

[RedRabbit]

4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Obviously, for most favorable climate, Key West, Miami, etc are mentioned.  I side with St. Pete Beach, though.  The temperature scale is very compressed due to the large amount of gulf influence, and summer isn't quite as blistering hot as it is inland or further south.  There are a number of days when it was 95F+ in my yard, but St. Pete Beach didn't even crack 90F.  As far as winter, the record lows don't come near matching what Key West or Miami could offer, but there are mature coconuts there, even after the 2010 freeze.  I've been to all of the cities mentioned, and if I had to move to one of them, I would choose St. Pete Beach without hesitation.

That being said, being in solid Zone 9a here in Lakeland is not what I consider a punishment.

Yeah, the Pass-a-grille area is my favorite beach in Pinellas County. I understand it isn't quite as warm there as AMI to the south, but it is still some form of 10b and safe for coconuts barring a major freeze. 

Btw, Lakeland is 9b as far as I know. 

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

Yeah, the Pass-a-grille area is my favorite beach in Pinellas County. I understand it isn't quite as warm there as AMI to the south, but it is still some form of 10b and safe for coconuts barring a major freeze. 

Btw, Lakeland is 9b as far as I know. 

AHS considers it a 9b, so that is actually correct.  Most years, it lives up to that claim.  Last year was actually a 10b winter here, with the low for the winter at my home being 35.  I am basing my "solid 9a" zone claim off of the record low of 20F instead of the AHS zone.  Even that doesn't tell the whole story, as the rural areas get a little colder than we do.  There was a gentleman who I knew on another forum that took a picture of his digital thermometer reading 16.7F at a point where mine was registering 24F.  The man's username was jayinflorida and it was during the 2 week freeze in 2010.

Link that shows our record low in '85, '62: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/33813:4:US