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TikiRick

Ganoderma hell

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NOT A TA
On 3/13/2019 at 1:54 PM, Merlyn2220 said:

The conk on the queen is on the North side, maybe a little bit NW.  I didn't see conks on the other queens or other palms in the area, not even on the dead one.  But some were obscured by pine shrubs so I'd have to stomp around in their beds to see them.   

The hotel was built around 2010, and they did recently repave the parking lot and entryway, I'm not sure if it was before or after the queens started getting sick.  Most of them looked fine until last spring.

I forgot that I took a picture of the dead queen's base, it's below.  The area around the lava rock is split and rotted, and there are several "weeping" areas on the trunk, mostly in the bottom 3-6 feet.  It's been dead for months, but there's no sign that there was ever a conk on this palm.

20190312_174454 cropped.jpg

In my research for a fungus with basidiocarp that looks more like the one in Ricks case at the start of this this thread I came across articles describing Palms being affected by the fungus Thielaviopsis paradoxa  also known as Palm trunk-rot which may be the cause of death of the first Queen at the hotel. Your mention of the weeping areas on the lower trunk and previous mention of the hotel removing dead Palms before crowns fall made me think to look up symptoms. Found this paper https://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2004-vol-117/324-325.pdf

The symptoms described for Thielaviopsis seem consistent with your observations on the dead Queen including the lack of a conk. Haven't found any documentation of coinciding cases of Ganoderma and Thielaviopsis but it may be possible that the different types of fungus can survive on the same host. So lets say the currently declining Queen with the Ganoderma conk started suffering from Thielaviopsis it may have been more susceptible to Ganoderma,  yet because the Ganoderma conk is obvious we presume that's whats killing the Palm.

Edited by NOT A TA

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Merlyn2220
34 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

In my research for a fungus with basidiocarp that looks more like the one in Ricks case at the start of this this thread I came across articles describing Palms being affected by the fungus Thielaviopsis paradoxa  also known as Palm trunk-rot which may be the cause of death of the first Queen at the hotel. Your mention of the weeping areas on the lower trunk and previous mention of the hotel removing dead Palms before crowns fall made me think to look up symptoms. Found this paper https://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2004-vol-117/324-325.pdf

The symptoms described for Thielaviopsis seem consistent with your observations on the dead Queen including the lack of a conk. Haven't found any documentation of coinciding cases of Ganoderma and Thielaviopsis but it may be possible that the different types of fungus can survive on the same host. So lets say the currently declining Queen with the Ganoderma conk started suffering from Thielaviopsis it may have been more susceptible to Ganoderma,  yet because the Ganoderma conk is obvious we presume that's whats killing the Palm.

You may be correct on this one, I am not sure if others have the "bleeding trunk" symptoms of Thielaviopsis.  The one in the photo with the badly bleeding trunk has been dead since at least the May 2018 Google streetview image, so it's possible that the "bleeding" is an opportunistic fungus feeding on dead tissue.   The one with the conk was basically dead in May 2018, with only 1 half-alive frond and 4 other dead or dying ones.  The crown on both of them leaned over and fell off.  I'll have to roll past again to see if others have bleed marks on the trunks.

From the link, Thiophanate-methyl appears to be pretty effective on coconut seedlings and mature trees.  I was looking at a few articles online, and it looks like they tested with Dazomet with 83% success in infected oil palm stumps.  That might be another one to try, though I don't know if has any systemic action.

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NOT A TA

I was at the Post Office yesterday so based on the Thielaviopsis symptoms info I looked at what I'd previously assumed were just damage on Palm C (one with conks) and found the weeping appearance similar to the hotel specimen. So perhaps the Palms are dying of Thielaviopsis when in a weakened state (or already having dead tissue) the Ganoderma jumps in to join the party. Here's pics of Palm C trunk, no weeping symptoms noted on Palms D-E at this time. Someone did knock the new conk on Palm C off so that was disappointing.

20190318_153810_zpsr9vptg1o.jpg

20190318_153816_zpsl0807kp5.jpg

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NOT A TA
23 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

From the link, Thiophanate-methyl appears to be pretty effective on coconut seedlings and mature trees.  I was looking at a few articles online, and it looks like they tested with Dazomet with 83% success in infected oil palm stumps.  That might be another one to try, though I don't know if has any systemic action.

In the Coconut seedling tests done by the Florida Tropical Research center, soaking the roots with Thiophanate-methyl seemed to have worked well as a preventive. The testing of previously infected mature Cocos info is unclear whether the solution applied "cured" the palm or just killed the disease at the weeping lesions painted with the slurry. I suspect the latter based on the way results were written. No mention of bore testing or laboratory results. So does "evaluated" mean they just looked at the lesions?

"In the second trial, mature coconut palms with weeping trunk lesions were treated with either Benlate or Cleary’s3336. The fungicides were made into a slurry and painted on the lesions monthly for one year. They were evaluated after six and 12 months and found to be free of fungus."

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Merlyn2220

Saturday I went on a bike ride and stopped at the dead and dying Queens and European fan palms and they finally cut down and removed the two dead Queens.  I took pictures of the trunks, and the dying Chamaerops Humilis with an apparently healthy one in the middle of two suffering ones.  These are about 15 yards North of the Queen trunks.  I marked North and the area of the conk on one photo for reference, but I don't recall which direction was North on the other picture.  I think North is to the bottom of that photo, but there was no visible conk on that trunk so it might not be important.

I'll check back in a bit and see if either (or both) have started bleeding white gunk or developed any new visible fungi. 

20190410_175219 cropped.jpg

20190410_175310 cropped.jpg

20190410_175257 cropped.jpg

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Merlyn2220

I biked past the same group of queen palms last night and spotted some pretty telltale trunk weeps on the sick one.  This was about 8 feet away from the one they cut down in the above photos.  I didn't see any signs of a conk on this palm.  The picture sort of makes it look like a 1-sided death of the fronds (Fusarium), but up close it w as pretty symmetric death and starting from the tips of the leaflets.  The trunk had weep spots anywhere from 6' up to the 12' crown, and the tapering makes it clear the palm has been infected and suffering for many years.

If I had to guess, I'd say that this one and the others nearby were infected with Thielaviopsis at least 4 or 5 years ago.  The Ganoderma may or may not be the ultimate cause of death, since there's no way to know when that infection happened.  I'm sure they'll eventually cut this one down, so I'll check the trunk periodically for any conks.

Oddly enough, the European Fan Palm that's about 30 yards to the right of this photo did survive.  The main trunk from my March 13th 2019 post died, but the smaller offset is still alive and seems to be okay and growing.  Very strange!

20190820_172156 cropped.jpg

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NOT A TA

I was reminded by our discussion in another thread that I'd planned on an experiment which included planting a palm in the Ganoderma zonatum infested Cocos nucifera stump I've been monitoring. So I made it happen yesterday evening. If anyone's interested in the details of my findings inside the stump and the process used planting I can post them.

20190821_180926_zpswnpyjd3n.jpg

 

 

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I biked past the same group of queen palms last night and spotted some pretty telltale trunk weeps on the sick one.  This was about 8 feet away from the one they cut down in the above photos.  I didn't see any signs of a conk on this palm.  The picture sort of makes it look like a 1-sided death of the fronds (Fusarium), but up close it w as pretty symmetric death and starting from the tips of the leaflets.  The trunk had weep spots anywhere from 6' up to the 12' crown, and the tapering makes it clear the palm has been infected and suffering for many years.

If I had to guess, I'd say that this one and the others nearby were infected with Thielaviopsis at least 4 or 5 years ago.  The Ganoderma may or may not be the ultimate cause of death, since there's no way to know when that infection happened.  I'm sure they'll eventually cut this one down, so I'll check the trunk periodically for any conks.

Oddly enough, the European Fan Palm that's about 30 yards to the right of this photo did survive.  The main trunk from my March 13th 2019 post died, but the smaller offset is still alive and seems to be okay and growing.  Very strange!

20190820_172156 cropped.jpg

The one in your pic here looks like it's a goner.

The small fan palm that was a pup may have survived if the pathogen that caused the parent decline was transferred by pruning tools. The pup was never trimmed. Another possibility might be some type of chemical the adult absorbed before the pup started.

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Merlyn2220
2 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

I was reminded by our discussion in another thread that I'd planned on an experiment which included planting a palm in the Ganoderma zonatum infested Cocos nucifera stump I've been monitoring. So I made it happen yesterday evening. If anyone's interested in the details of my findings inside the stump and the process used planting I can post them.

The one in your pic here looks like it's a goner.

The small fan palm that was a pup may have survived if the pathogen that caused the parent decline was transferred by pruning tools. The pup was never trimmed. Another possibility might be some type of chemical the adult absorbed before the pup started.

That discussion on LB/Fusarium/etc was what reminded me to stop by and take a look at the long-suffering queens.  My guess is that they'll leave the queen there until it actually dies, thus helping it spread disease to their other palms. 

Strangely enough the small fan palm looked like it was toast in March, but the offset was there while the main trunk was dying.  After they cut off the dead main trunk the offset started growing normally and is about 2 feet tall now with 6" of trunk.  Maybe they hit the leaves with a weed killer and it was enough to kill off the main trunk but not enough to kill the entire root ball.  The main trunk was curving off to the North for at least a year, so it might be just a coincidence that the trunk started dying.

The ganoderma trunk experiment looks interesting, though the trunk might form a bowl for water to collect.  Maybe you've already accounted for that so it drains okay.

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NOT A TA
21 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

That discussion on LB/Fusarium/etc was what reminded me to stop by and take a look at the long-suffering queens.  My guess is that they'll leave the queen there until it actually dies, thus helping it spread disease to their other palms. 

Strangely enough the small fan palm looked like it was toast in March, but the offset was there while the main trunk was dying.  After they cut off the dead main trunk the offset started growing normally and is about 2 feet tall now with 6" of trunk.  Maybe they hit the leaves with a weed killer and it was enough to kill off the main trunk but not enough to kill the entire root ball.  The main trunk was curving off to the North for at least a year, so it might be just a coincidence that the trunk started dying.

The ganoderma trunk experiment looks interesting, though the trunk might form a bowl for water to collect.  Maybe you've already accounted for that so it drains okay.

It was a bowl and had 8.5" of water in it. I debated a drainage hole before planting but decided against it for a couple reasons. I'll detail everything and add pics later.

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NOT A TA

For my Ganoderma zonatum experiment I needed to wait for the Cocos nucifera stump to rot enough in the center to plant a new palm in it. The time finally arrived when I figured I could use a palm grown in a 2 gallon pot. So here's what I did.....

Stumps like this rot inside while the flat top & sides look normal (other than basidiocarps growing on them) here in S FL because the exposed surfaces are drier.  Once the inside gets really rotted the flat top falls in and that's what I was waiting for.  Ganoderma has been growing in the stump at least 5-6  years creating a new basidiocarp each year. I removed the flat top and conk that had fallen in and took these pics. I could see water in the stump a couple inches lower than ground level which didn't surprise me as I've seen it before and we've had over a foot of rain the past couple weeks. The inside of the stump was full of spongy rotting tissue.

20190821_163832_zpseb5in0rm.jpg

20190821_163904_zpsye9fpaov.jpg

Next I used a hand trowel to scoop out all the spongy ganoderma infested soft pulp I could. What I ended up with was a stump acting like a bowl with solid wood on the bottom. Water level was a couple inches below ground level and 8.5" deep.

20190821_164806_zpsdmwaxo3v.jpg

I scrapped with the trowel and pried rotting wood out of the stump till I could fit the 2 gallon container of the sacrificial palm into the stump. Then I collected soil surrounding the stump I knew would be loaded with basidiospores and dumped it in the stump water with the spongy tissue I'd removed from the stump and created a Ganoderma stew in the stump to fill it up enough to have the new palm be about the correct height to match ground level if there wasn't a stump surrounding it. Ganoderma infected tissue is on the left side of pic below.

20190821_173023_zpsgztz0mel.jpg

Placed the new palm in the stump and added more soil from around the stump as filler around the root ball then dumped a bucket of rain water in to hopefully help soil into any voids. Gently wiggled new palm to allow soil to settle around the root ball and into the Ganoderma stew. Afterward the additional water drained away in about 15 minutes. I didn't make a drain hole in the stump prior to planting so I could use the stump as a bowl and create the Ganoderma slurries to eliminate air pockets. If I see a puddle in the stump or it seems too wet for the new palm I'll create a drainage hole in the bottom of the stump. And now we wait......

20190821_173438_zpsdrje1b2l.jpg

 

 

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palmsOrl

NOT A TA, so you are doing this to see if the ganoderma fungus will infect the new palm planted in the stump of the infected palm?  Is the new palm Adonidia?

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NOT A TA
8 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

NOT A TA, so you are doing this to see if the ganoderma fungus will infect the new palm planted in the stump of the infected palm?  Is the new palm Adonidia?

Yes, to both questions. I should have mentioned there was a Cocos nucifera juvenile that had sprouted from a seed dropped by the stump palm. The seedling started within three feet of the stump and never showed any signs of health problems. I removed it last year because I needed it for a project I was working on. It was just starting to trunk at the time and was about 8-9 feet tall.

Some extension service bulletins I've seen mention the possibility that Ganoderma doesn't affect living palms until they trunk. So there's a possibility that I won't see issues with the Adonidia for a long time. On the flip side, if I see issues within a short period of time I'd try to have the Adonidia tested to see if it's from Ganoderma.

The thing is, Ganoderma Zonatum is literally everywhere here so there's no reasonable way of cleansing a property of basidiospores. Even if you removed all the soil and replaced it with spore free soil there's likely Ganoderma growing on neighboring properties because it grows on dead palm tissue which is everywhere here. Basidioscarps only seem to form in the shade and I do have short rotting stumps in full sun that have not produced conks. I believe the Ganoderma is still doing it's magic although there's no visible conks.

Here's some basidiocarps of other decay fungi I'm watching the progression of for those interested in weird decay fungus basidiocarps, ahahaha. Some can be seen for a few hours and dry up to dust while others last a week, months, or years before they disintegrate like the Ganoderma zonatum conks which seem kinda hard and light like say Balsa wood.

Pic below is on a stump of Clerodendron quadriloculare. Very delicate structure that forms overnight and only shows up during warm high humidity/rain/dark conditions and dies off/dries out very quickly as soon as sunlight hits it if it isn't raining. Hard to get a good pic of it because either it's pouring when I notice it or I just don't get up early enough in the morning to catch it before it starts to dry. This pic shows it partially dried.

20190506_153901_zps7jizogwp.jpg

Pic below is of root section of Persea americana.

20190822_171941_zpscypvof7d.jpg

Pic below is of stump of Mangifera indica (mostly hidden by grass) with basidiocarps from the Persea pic above on the plastic to show the size difference and also note the color difference in the centers. Both of these have the "mushroom" shape most people are familiar with.

20190822_174557_zpsib6ntyqm.jpg

 

 

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NOT A TA

Was at the Post Office today to ship out seed and tree maintenance people had been there since I was there Monday. They cut down the two dead Queens as well as the last live one in the sidewalk openings. I'd taken a few pics in recent months when the palm C crown folded over and conk reformed on Palm C. D never formed a conk and E's now gone so I can't watch it for signs of decline. They may have had them removed because I went to a supervisor and took her outside for a Ganoderma show & tell explaining the liability of allowing the dead trees to stand in an area of heavy foot traffic. The top of palm C had folded over already as seen in pics.

20190911_123832_zpsvat5x59t.jpg

20190826_150118_zpskunsaoms.jpg

20190826_150059_zps0csbdudn.jpg

20190826_150034_zpsevwjqyb9.jpg

20190918_145119_zps1lktqv7f.jpg

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redant
On 8/23/2019 at 12:04 AM, NOT A TA said:

For my Ganoderma zonatum experiment I needed to wait for the Cocos nucifera stump to rot enough in the center to plant a new palm in it. The time finally arrived when I figured I could use a palm grown in a 2 gallon pot. So here's what I did.....

Stumps like this rot inside while the flat top & sides look normal (other than basidiocarps growing on them) here in S FL because the exposed surfaces are drier.  Once the inside gets really rotted the flat top falls in and that's what I was waiting for.  Ganoderma has been growing in the stump at least 5-6  years creating a new basidiocarp each year. I removed the flat top and conk that had fallen in and took these pics. I could see water in the stump a couple inches lower than ground level which didn't surprise me as I've seen it before and we've had over a foot of rain the past couple weeks. The inside of the stump was full of spongy rotting tissue.

20190821_163832_zpseb5in0rm.jpg

20190821_163904_zpsye9fpaov.jpg

Next I used a hand trowel to scoop out all the spongy ganoderma infested soft pulp I could. What I ended up with was a stump acting like a bowl with solid wood on the bottom. Water level was a couple inches below ground level and 8.5" deep.

20190821_164806_zpsdmwaxo3v.jpg

I scrapped with the trowel and pried rotting wood out of the stump till I could fit the 2 gallon container of the sacrificial palm into the stump. Then I collected soil surrounding the stump I knew would be loaded with basidiospores and dumped it in the stump water with the spongy tissue I'd removed from the stump and created a Ganoderma stew in the stump to fill it up enough to have the new palm be about the correct height to match ground level if there wasn't a stump surrounding it. Ganoderma infected tissue is on the left side of pic below.

20190821_173023_zpsgztz0mel.jpg

Placed the new palm in the stump and added more soil from around the stump as filler around the root ball then dumped a bucket of rain water in to hopefully help soil into any voids. Gently wiggled new palm to allow soil to settle around the root ball and into the Ganoderma stew. Afterward the additional water drained away in about 15 minutes. I didn't make a drain hole in the stump prior to planting so I could use the stump as a bowl and create the Ganoderma slurries to eliminate air pockets. If I see a puddle in the stump or it seems too wet for the new palm I'll create a drainage hole in the bottom of the stump. And now we wait......

20190821_173438_zpsdrje1b2l.jpg

 

 

I have planted very small palms where a big palms was taken down by Ganoderma , so far they all fine. Long term who knows.

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Merlyn2220

Here's an odd question.  I know that the water oaks I just had taken down were (at least 2) infected with Ganoderma, but it's a different type than the palm Ganoderma Zonatum.  I have no idea which type of Ganoderma it was, there was only one visible red-white conk and I forgot to take a picture before they cut it down and ground the stump.  So now I have 8 large mounds of dirt+Ganoderma-infested stump grindings.  Last year I had the same and I used it to fill around a Viburnum hedgeline with no apparent ill effects.  

So the question is, does anyone know if water oak Ganoderma infects shrubs like Viburnum or other plants like Philodendrons?  I need to clear out about 10-20 wheelbarrows full of dirt/grindings and I'd like to use it to fill in some low spots along my Viburnum hedge.  But I don't want to kill them!

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redant
1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Here's an odd question.  I know that the water oaks I just had taken down were (at least 2) infected with Ganoderma, but it's a different type than the palm Ganoderma Zonatum.  I have no idea which type of Ganoderma it was, there was only one visible red-white conk and I forgot to take a picture before they cut it down and ground the stump.  So now I have 8 large mounds of dirt+Ganoderma-infested stump grindings.  Last year I had the same and I used it to fill around a Viburnum hedgeline with no apparent ill effects.  

So the question is, does anyone know if water oak Ganoderma infects shrubs like Viburnum or other plants like Philodendrons?  I need to clear out about 10-20 wheelbarrows full of dirt/grindings and I'd like to use it to fill in some low spots along my Viburnum hedge.  But I don't want to kill them!

If you ground it up the spores are everywhere by now.  Past that I have no idea about cross infection.

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NOT A TA

Decay fungus (Ganoderma included) is everywhere and typically doesn't affect living tissue. Were the water oaks that showed signs of decay fungus really old? Damaged? Have insect problems? Decay fungus that forms basidiocarps rarely infects healthy living tissue so although there were signs of decay fungus it probably wasn't attacking living tissue.

I wouldn't worry about using the soil from the deteriorating water oaks area on other plants. Shouldn't be a problem and the spores are everywhere all the time anyway so if it would have been an issue it's too late as they were there already just waiting for you to cut the water oaks so they could have a bigger party! So the decay fungus spores are already cohabiting with your viburnum.  It's not like they were 20 miles away and said "Hey, I think I smell a freshly cut oak! Party at Merlyn's, lets go boys!"

Update on the Adonidia in the stump since I'm posting here anyway.

It hasn't skipped a beat and has continued growing at a normal pace after being planted in the Ganoderma toxic soup. Looks perfectly normal & healthy so far but it's only been about a month. One of the reasons I used Adonidia merrillii is because Elliot & Broschat had written about Ganoderma zonatum infecting them and there are few other things that give them problems. That said it's been suggested that the Ganoderma doesn't affect them unless they're trunking so I'll see what happens.

In the post office case I still suspect there may have been another issue affecting the palms and the Ganoderma was secondary.

 

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NOT A TA
12 hours ago, redant said:

I have planted very small palms where a big palms was taken down by Ganoderma , so far they all fine. Long term who knows.

What kind of palm had the Ganoderma? Any conk form before it died? Any pics? Any possibility there was another issue and the Ganoderma was secondary? I'm very interested in any details.

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greysrigging

Ganoderma has done an awful lot of culling in my yard, in fact continues to so, particularly among mature Ptychosperma, both elegans and macarthurii. Took out every Golden Cane ( once had a natural front fence ), although a couple of hardy ones have made a comeback. Lutescens have been decimated all over Darwin.
I have lost Carpentaria, Normanbya, Queens, Cuban Royals, Triangles, Betel Nut, and the really painfull loss was a mature and fruiting Verschaffeltia splendida ( sigh )
https://dpir.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/233595/834.pdf

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redant
11 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

What kind of palm had the Ganoderma? Any conk form before it died? Any pics? Any possibility there was another issue and the Ganoderma was secondary? I'm very interested in any details.

I have had a varied bunch of palms with it, kings, royals, carpies, caryota, majesty, foxtail.  My daughter and her husband do landscape installs, state the D. Lutescens  are getting hit hard.  All the palms had a conk before dying, all where very heathy before.

Edited by redant

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Merlyn2220

I went back past the hotel with the sick Queens, and there are a couple more that look unhealthy but not in an "about to die" way.  They look more like they just aren't growing well, the newer fronds are shorter than older ones and a bit light green in color.  I wasn't sure about seeing Fusarium on the queens, but there are two dying Washingtonia in the middle of the parking lot.  They clearly have the typical 1-sided frond death of Fusarium, and are about 30 yards from the batch of sick Queens.  I'll keep an eye on them, my guess is that I'll spot Fusarium symptoms on some of them.

Most of my neighborhood is live oaks, which are somewhat resistant to Ganoderma, something to do with "compartmentalizing infections.". I guess if Viburnum was susceptible to oak-type Ganoderma it would probably have already affected the 20 foot tall hedge between my house and my neighbor to the East.  I dug up 4 stump grindings this evening and spread them out as mulch, so we'll see!  My water oaks were mostly defoliated in Hurricane Irma, and a couple of the front yard ones never really grew back out normally.  The only one with a visible conk looked perfectly healthy though...so I guess you never know!

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NOT A TA
21 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Ganoderma has done an awful lot of culling in my yard, in fact continues to so, particularly among mature Ptychosperma, both elegans and macarthurii. Took out every Golden Cane ( once had a natural front fence ), although a couple of hardy ones have made a comeback. Lutescens have been decimated all over Darwin.
I have lost Carpentaria, Normanbya, Queens, Cuban Royals, Triangles, Betel Nut, and the really painfull loss was a mature and fruiting Verschaffeltia splendida ( sigh )
https://dpir.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/233595/834.pdf

Thanks for the info on your losses and the Agnote link. Reading the Agnote  from '07 it sounds like they hadn't done any real testing and just offered some observations and general suggestions if ganoderma is observed on a dead/dying plant. Was your Dypsis Lutescens "natural fence" comprised of old specimens? Were the other palms you lost under any type of stress? Did you lose most of the other palms at around the same time period? Was there a time when you started seeing palms decline? Do you have any currently declining to observe? Did you happen to take any pics of the conks referred to as "brackets" over there?

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NOT A TA
12 hours ago, redant said:

I have had a varied bunch of palms with it, kings, royals, carpies, caryota, majesty, foxtail.  My daughter and her husband do landscape installs, state the D. Lutescens  are getting hit hard.  All the palms had a conk before dying, all where very heathy before.

Did you have any Caryota mitis that was affected?  I'm curious due to them a clumping  palm and having stalks that die off once flowering gets to the bottom. Wondering if an old stalk can be infected because it's dying while younger shoots are thriving.

Have daughter & hubby had young or just old Dypsis lutescens clumps die off? Are they seeing a conk like the one in the pic below or something more like the one in TikiRicks pic on page 1 of this thread?

There's a LOT of Dypsis lutescens here and I haven't noticed anything unusual with any (and I look for dead/diseased plant materials in my travels out of habit). There's lots of them in my yard as well as neighbors and I know there's been Ganoderma zonatum releasing spores nearby for many years, often within just a few feet of lutescens clumps I thin out every couple years so they don't get too tall. I'm interested in finding out if the zonatum can affect healthy palms and if so why some yet not others. The spores are everywhere here yet I can't find any cases where an infected palm doesn't have other issues that may have preceded the Ganoderma or severely weakened/stressed the plant.

Were the palms you had affected shortly after the cold winters back around 2010? Did they fold up high like the one in pic below? Any weeping on the trunks?

20190826_150118_zpskunsaoms.jpg

20190918_124711_zps7ul7op0z.jpg

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NOT A TA
55 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I went back past the hotel with the sick Queens, and there are a couple more that look unhealthy but not in an "about to die" way.  They look more like they just aren't growing well, the newer fronds are shorter than older ones and a bit light green in color.  I wasn't sure about seeing Fusarium on the queens, but there are two dying Washingtonia in the middle of the parking lot.  They clearly have the typical 1-sided frond death of Fusarium, and are about 30 yards from the batch of sick Queens.  I'll keep an eye on them, my guess is that I'll spot Fusarium symptoms on some of them.

Most of my neighborhood is live oaks, which are somewhat resistant to Ganoderma, something to do with "compartmentalizing infections.". I guess if Viburnum was susceptible to oak-type Ganoderma it would probably have already affected the 20 foot tall hedge between my house and my neighbor to the East.  I dug up 4 stump grindings this evening and spread them out as mulch, so we'll see!  My water oaks were mostly defoliated in Hurricane Irma, and a couple of the front yard ones never really grew back out normally.  The only one with a visible conk looked perfectly healthy though...so I guess you never know!

Any chance the irrigation for the Washys isn't working? I've watched several palms slowly decline in parking lot planters due to drought then appear to become diseased & die or get removed. Below's an example I watched for a few years. Originally there were two and started declining due to drought. Then the far one died and just the one in foreground remained. Then they repaved the parking lot, planted a palm to replace the missing one and fixed the irrigation. But it was too late and the queen was already a goner as you can see and has since been replaced. They've replaced most of the Queens with Foxtails now.

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NOT A TA
1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

The only one with a visible conk looked perfectly healthy though...so I guess you never know!

When I was up North it wasn't uncommon to see conks on old trees that appeared healthy from a distance. Though they might have a decayed internal area at the base of the tree where the decay fungus was active but the tree would be growing just fine. Sometimes I'd have to tell people they should remove a tree as it was a liability due to reduced structural integrity.  Fairly common on roadside trees that got hit by cars during snow etc. They rarely removed the trees and eventually they'd topple in an ice storm or high wind event.

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greysrigging
2 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Thanks for the info on your losses and the Agnote link. Reading the Agnote  from '07 it sounds like they hadn't done any real testing and just offered some observations and general suggestions if ganoderma is observed on a dead/dying plant. Was your Dypsis Lutescens "natural fence" comprised of old specimens? Were the other palms you lost under any type of stress? Did you lose most of the other palms at around the same time period? Was there a time when you started seeing palms decline? Do you have any currently declining to observe? Did you happen to take any pics of the conks referred to as "brackets" over there?

I believe the Ganoderma spores are spread exponentially by the local council and local gardeners using 'Jungle Mulch' from the local dump ie all our garden waste ( contaminated ) is recycled back into use all over the City in parks and gardens.
1/- my Lutesens started dying off about 15 years ago,... previously happy and healthy and only 15-17 years old. Now having said that, lutescens in Darwin get very ratty in the dry season if not watered heavily. Oh, they will survive the seasonal drought, but yes they do get stressed out in our hot climate. Lutescens are the biggest losers in the Ganoderma epidemic in Darwin. And my specimens probably got stressed and droughted as my work took me over to Western Australia for 5 years, and my son didn't have the same 'feel' for irrigation as I have...
And once lutescens are stressed, all sorts of bugs and critters attack them.
2/- The main losses atm are Ptychospermas; healthy looking plants start to 'wilt' ( no evidence of conks, but there is sometimes ) with them becoming droopy and fronds browning off prematurely. Then a complete loss of the head and heart of the plant leaving just the trunk. As soon as I see the browning off/ droopy fronds, I know the plant is a goner....
These are not old plants, nor ever been stressed for water, mostly self sown and vigorous growers in our climate.
3/-The randomness of Ganoderma deaths is baffling.... lost some Triangles, others are going great.  Lost some Cuban Royals, then 2 healthy ones ( still ) besides the deceased. Carpentarias ( local native ) I have lost a few and all had conks ( no pics ) but among us local enthusiasts conks=death sentence.
4/- Plants seem more susceptible with age ( except my Ptychospermas ). Most of my losses have been minimum 15 years and more likely +20 years of age ( Carpentaria and Queens )
My Queensland Black Palm ( Normanbia ) began the browning/drooping frond stuff and developed a conk at about 30 years from planting.
So generally I just put up with it and let nature take its course.

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NOT A TA
On 3/12/2019 at 9:36 AM, Merlyn2220 said:

I wonder if the different appearance is because Rick's conk is in dense shade and hasn't been roasted and dried out by the sun?

I planted Schefflera when I read this ^^^ back in March to make sure one of the conks I've been growing this year was in full shade all summer to compare with TikiRicks conk. This one (also grown on Dypsis lutescens) doesn't look like his at all to me and I think his fungus MAY not have been Ganoderma zonatum. His doesn't really look like any of the examples of Ganoderma zonatum I've seen. Also, looking back now I realize his Dypsis Lutescens that were infected were pretty old based on the stump size.

 

On 9/20/2016 at 8:48 AM, Eric in Orlando said:

I remember after the big Dec. 1989 freeze that surviving Syagrus romanzoffiana would come down with ganoderma in the first few years.The trunks had freeze injuries that never healed and was an open wound for infection. Same with clumps of Phoenix reclinata. The specimens that were more of a pure species type were much more tender to cold than hybrids. Lots of these clumps lost a few to many trunks. So when they were removed the stumps were an open invitation to the ganoderma party. It was sad to see survivor palms being lost years after the freeze to disease indirectly caused by the freeze. 

This ^^^ is the kind of thing I've been looking for with the Ganoderma cases. Since it's primarily a decay fungus of non living tissue it may only affect plants under stress of some type.  Elliot & Broschats writings have said they don't believe injury is the opening for infection to begin. Spores are everywhere here as evidenced by how quickly it forms conks on root systems and trunks of palms that have been cut down. Yet other palms easily within range of becoming affected show no signs of the disease for many years.

As a thought:  Perhaps the Ganoderma is living inside most or even all of the palms in old dead roots or whatever in a sort of symbiotic relationship just feeding on any dead tissue available and possibly even going dormant for long periods when growing conditions for the palm are very good until something occurs to put the plant under enough stress to make marginally viable plant tissue vulnerable such as a cold winter, drought, flood, chemical damage, or another factor? Then Ganoderma could start working it's way up into the trunk wood slowly taking out the center part of the vascular system, which causes more tissue above it to die off and become vulnerable. Over time (years) it might slowly deprive the plant enough to kill it. This might explain the penciling I've witnessed.  This doesn't seem to be a quick acting disease at all so it may be years after a stress incident before decline is noticed as Eric mentioned.  Meanwhile if good palm growing conditions are available the palm looks pretty good although it can't continue growing normally because of the limited vascular system. Perhaps in cases like my A-E post office palms the cold of the two winters around 2010 were what initiated the eventual demise of the plants?

I think I should talk to Mr Broschat at some point. If nothing else he might be amused that some nut is purposely growing Ganoderma zonatum and experimenting with it.

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NOT A TA
On 9/21/2019 at 1:14 AM, greysrigging said:

I believe the Ganoderma spores are spread exponentially by the local council and local gardeners using 'Jungle Mulch' from the local dump ie all our garden waste ( contaminated ) is recycled back into use all over the City in parks and gardens.
1/- my Lutesens started dying off about 15 years ago,... previously happy and healthy and only 15-17 years old. Now having said that, lutescens in Darwin get very ratty in the dry season if not watered heavily. Oh, they will survive the seasonal drought, but yes they do get stressed out in our hot climate. Lutescens are the biggest losers in the Ganoderma epidemic in Darwin. And my specimens probably got stressed and droughted as my work took me over to Western Australia for 5 years, and my son didn't have the same 'feel' for irrigation as I have...
And once lutescens are stressed, all sorts of bugs and critters attack them.
2/- The main losses atm are Ptychospermas; healthy looking plants start to 'wilt' ( no evidence of conks, but there is sometimes ) with them becoming droopy and fronds browning off prematurely. Then a complete loss of the head and heart of the plant leaving just the trunk. As soon as I see the browning off/ droopy fronds, I know the plant is a goner....
These are not old plants, nor ever been stressed for water, mostly self sown and vigorous growers in our climate.
3/-The randomness of Ganoderma deaths is baffling.... lost some Triangles, others are going great.  Lost some Cuban Royals, then 2 healthy ones ( still ) besides the deceased. Carpentarias ( local native ) I have lost a few and all had conks ( no pics ) but among us local enthusiasts conks=death sentence.
4/- Plants seem more susceptible with age ( except my Ptychospermas ). Most of my losses have been minimum 15 years and more likely +20 years of age ( Carpentaria and Queens )
My Queensland Black Palm ( Normanbia ) began the browning/drooping frond stuff and developed a conk at about 30 years from planting.
So generally I just put up with it and let nature take its course.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post your observations and personal tragedies related to the fungus.

I have no doubt that the dispersal of the "Jungle mulch" in your area is spreading wood chips with live fungus as well as spores. However, I kinda doubt that's having a big impact on the proliferation of cases because the spores appear to be everywhere palms live & die in a natural environment. You'd probably have relatively the percentage of the palm population showing the symptoms even if the mulch wasn't spread. Palms have become a big part of the cultivated ornamental landscape so we notice the ones that die in our yards and in public places. If the rate was 3 percent in a natural environment such as a forest we probably wouldn't notice but 3 % in cultivated areas we notice because "Hey! Look at that big dead palm in Joe's front yard!".

1/  Your Dypsis lutescens were mature when they started showing symptoms and the dry season stress each year MAY have been a contributing factor. I'm curious if lutescens can naturalize itself in your area long term or are all of them planted and typically require additional water during your dry season to make it from year to year?

2/  I'm certainly no expert on palm ID and species/varieties etc. however I believe most of the Ptychosperma have relatively thin trunks? If so perhaps part of the reason they're more easily  (or noticeably) affected is in part due to the high percentage of trunk volume reduced once the fungus gets into the base of the tree. Palms with much thicker trunks would loose less of their fluid transfer capability because a lower percentage of the trunk is affected until the fungus has been growing a much longer time. This might also be why the Ganoderma appears to act quicker on thin trunk palms. Growth of diseased tissue might be similar but a higher percentage of woody tissue is affected causing outward symptoms to occur more quickly while thicker trunk palms such as Syagrus romanzoffiana seem to decline more slowly.

3/  Ganoderma does seem random, that's part of what interests me in studying it. Again, not a palm expert but the Carpentaria also seem to be thin trunk type? Wondering how old yours were that died?

4/ Age does seem to be a significant factor in many cases. Our Ag bulletins here mention that trunking MAY be necessary before the Ganoderma has a noticeable affect. Mature age and beyond seems to invite the disease to show symptoms, particularly when combined with stress. Your Normanbya normanbyi at 30 Y/O was mature or beyond and also a thin trunk type palm. Perhaps the plants rate of growth doesn't exceed the rate of growth of Ganoderma at some point in the palms life and that is when we start to see symptoms?

Again, thanks for your input!  I keep learning more about the disease and palms from everyone who posts here (former zone 5 guy) and the associated research is interesting. Now I'm interested in finding some seed for Normanbya normanbyi or a plant if they're sold here. ahahaha

 

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greysrigging

I planted my Carpentarias in 1987, so getting close to their lifespan range. We  ( in Darwin ) have the world's largest Termite, the infamous Mastotermes darwiniensis, who love to infest Ganoderma affected palms.
Lutescens will set viable seed in Darwin, but do not naturalise ( not that I've noticed anyways ) Climate is simply too tough for seedlings to survive.
Age and stress are certainly factors, except in my Ptychospermas, they suffer from a young age, Some self sown ones in my yard have succumbed in 5 years or less.

 

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NOT A TA
2 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Age and stress are certainly factors, except in my Ptychospermas, they suffer from a young age, Some self sown ones in my yard have succumbed in 5 years or less.

Curious what species these were/are and have certain ones been less or more likely to suffer? I'm thinking some, such as elegans are native in a rain forest setting and have to be kept moist or they may suffer from stress during your dry season. So while they might come up as volunteers they can't survive long term without human assistance.

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greysrigging
2 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Curious what species these were/are and have certain ones been less or more likely to suffer? I'm thinking some, such as elegans are native in a rain forest setting and have to be kept moist or they may suffer from stress during your dry season. So while they might come up as volunteers they can't survive long term without human assistance.

Both elegans and macarthurii succumb in my yard and these youngish palms have never been water stressed. Local bird species spread the seeds and macarthurii in particular have spread into remnant riparian rain forest areas ( those with permanent water ) around the Darwin region
Both are weedy in my yard, thousands of seedlings at any one time.

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Merlyn2220

Here's a quick update on the collection of suffering queens and Washingtonia.  I rode my bike through their lot last night and saw no evidence of trunk damage or watering issues with the Washingtonia.  They are about 40 feet tall and in a bed with a big "shrubbery forest" of Livistona Chinensis and Philodendrons, all of which look fine.  At the moment all the fronds look like they are dying symmetrically, so it's not clear that Fusarium is the cause.  One is totally dessicated in the crown (just behind the left one), and the other on the left is not far behind it.  Everything else in the bed appears healthy at the moment.  I couldn't see any conks or evidence that there was a conk at any point.

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Just to the left of the above picture are 3 queens with serious problems.  Two have large wounds in the trunk.  This one has about 15 feet of termite-eaten trunk on the SE side:

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Right next to it is one with a big hole in it, but no other apparent damage or poor health.  It might be termite damage too, or possibly a woodpecker "bug trap" that started rotting:

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Just to the right of that pair is another with what looks like chainsaw shavings all around the trunk.  There's no sign of recent trimming and nothing that I could see that had happened to it recently.  I'll have to stop by when it's a little brighter outside and see what the heck is going on.  There was no apparent sign of Ganoderma conks on these either.

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NOT A TA
On 9/22/2019 at 10:32 PM, greysrigging said:

Both elegans and macarthurii succumb in my yard and these youngish palms have never been water stressed. Local bird species spread the seeds and macarthurii in particular have spread into remnant riparian rain forest areas ( those with permanent water ) around the Darwin region
Both are weedy in my yard, thousands of seedlings at any one time.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 10:09 AM, Merlyn2220 said:

I'll have to stop by when it's a little brighter outside and see what the heck is going on.  There was no apparent sign of Ganoderma conks on these either.

Thanks for the reply's gents. I've been out of action this week as I got hauled off to hospital in an ambulance a couple hours after my last post above Sun. night and just got out a few hours ago. Will respond on topic when thinking more clearly.

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greysrigging

Here's a couple of pics of a reasonably healthy Ptychosperma clump that, I fear, its days are numbered.
No sign of a conk on the trunks...
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Here you can see the browning off of the fronds...
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The frond die back is almost to the new spear.
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Experience tells me that this part of the clump is a goner, and the rest of the plant will succumb within 12 months.
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redant

going to add a 20 year old flame thrower on my palm killed. Sad to see but thankfully I have dozens of babies from her.

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NOT A TA

We've had a lot of constant rain the past several days and it's still warm here (80's F). Not surprising as the local area is considered subtropical rainforest, although this year we've had even higher than normal rainfall, temps, and humidity for this time of year.

I noticed during my morning coffee stroll about the grounds that one of the Cocos Nucifera in a growers pot had Ganoderma zonatum basidiocarps forming on the coconut husk. The particular plant is about 2 years old.  If this plant had had been put in the ground we wouldn't know there was active Ganoderma on/in the nut because I'd set the plant at a depth where the husk would have been covered with soil. I've got about 20 other Cocos of various varieties from 6 months to about two years old in pots with the nut exposed and there are no signs on any of the other nuts but I'll keep a vigilant eye on them.

The Ganoderma doesn't appear to be affecting the palm at this time and I don't really expect it to since Ganoderma probably lives on the decaying nuts of germinated seeds normally, we just don't see it because the palm gets planted or conditions aren't ideal for basidiocarp formation on potted specimens. The extended warm weather combined with higher humidity/rainfall probably contributed to the basidiocarp formation. Direct sunlight does not hit the nut where this plant is situated which I believe also allows for conditions more likely to permit/promote basidiocarp formation.

I will keep the affected nut/plant rather than planting elsewhere or selling so I can observe the progression of the Ganoderma zonatum and monitor the plant ongoing. I hadn't planned on adding another Coco to the yard plantings but I'll have to find a place to put it so I can monitor it over several years and it'll be to big for me to keep potted. Here's a couple pics. In the last pic note the very small conk forming right above the soil line lower left of the nut.

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NOT A TA

I figured since I was updating this thread I'd also take a pic of the sacrificial Adonidia Merrillii I planted in the Ganoderma zonatum stew stump about 3 months ago. It hasn't missed a beat and continues to push new spears. Color is a kinda light because it gets a bit more sun than they like as juviniles but otherwise it's just chugging along.

Top pic below on planting day and lower pic today.

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Sandy Loam

Maybe some palms are not affected much by Ganoderma? I don't know. I'm just asking the question. Adonidia maybe? 

 

I thought Ganoderma spreads throughout the soil, so once you have it on your property, there is no way of getting rid of it. Is that correct?

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NOT A TA
4 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Maybe some palms are not affected much by Ganoderma? I don't know. I'm just asking the question. Adonidia maybe? 

 

I thought Ganoderma spreads throughout the soil, so once you have it on your property, there is no way of getting rid of it. Is that correct?

I used an Adonidia merrillii for the stump test because it'd been mentioned in papers by Broschat & Elliot (University of FL researchers in Ft. Lauderdale) as being susceptible to infection by Ganoderma zonatum and I happened to have juveniles the perfect size to use for my experiment.  I would have preferred to use a Syagrus romanzoffiana as they appear to be more susceptible to infection by Ganoderma (just my observation of seeing more cases on Queens). However the ones I had at the time the stump was ready were to big or too small for what I wanted to do. I will do some other testing with Syagrus romanzoffiana I'm growing.

Broschat & Elliot have confirmed infections in at least 65 species and they presume all palms are susceptible. They have conducted some limited testing that wasn't really conclusive about anything. Most of their writings are more about observations of cases reported to them. This paper describes the tests they conducted.  http://coconutpests.org/uploads/CPDT_content/pdf/Gbuttrot/Ganoderma copy.pdf

It's thought that the main means of dispersion is by spores released by basidiocarp which land on soil but mycelium from active fungus in the soil might be a way adjacent plants are infected like the post office case I was monitoring. In this area of S FL palms are everywhere in great numbers and the Ganoderma zonatum grows on any type of dead palm tissue so it's literally everywhere because there's dead palm tissue everywhere. While Broschat & Elliot recommend some basic typical disease control practices I believe they're a waste of time with this fungus because it's everywhere anyway. They probably recommend the control practices to satisfy peoples desire to "do" something after loosing a favorite palm. There's no way to cleanse a property in my opinion because even if there was a known method of killing spores, new spores floating over from adjacent properties would infect the area immediately after the cleansing was completed. There's also no known method of stopping the fungus completely. There's no information on how long spores remain viable,what activates them, or what might kill them. So we can't really prevent infection or stop currently active infections at this time.

Although the spores are everywhere it doesn't affect most palms,  only a very, very, very, small percentage are infected. It's actually difficult to find infected living palms to observe. I was really disappointed when they took down the remaining post office palms I was watching that were in a row. I've since continued closely inspecting all the other palms on the post office property and haven't noticed symptoms on any of them.

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Sandy Loam

Do we know which palms are NOT very susceptible? 

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