Looking for Avocado seedling

[kylecawazafla]

Just found another one. That makes 3 good ones that I have now.

[bubba]

Kyle, Is there anyway we can get Tebow interested in palms? Have a great year and Go Gators.

[Alicehunter2000]

YES! ...........I just sent you a PM

Thanks,

David

[Scott Mcintosh]

I am growing a  Choquette Avocado, it was planted 8 years ago from a 3gal pot. The tree has produced fruit for the last 6 yrs. Last year it produced around 50 fruits (storms with high winds shake off fruit before they ripe Dec-Jan). This year (very few storms) it must have 200 fruit. The fruit weigh around 2 lbs. each. I have been told that Choquette is not very cold hardy.

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes that is the exciting thing about this particular variety and tree growing their in G-ville. It has survived some really cold temps and still is in great shape. This variety is virtually impossible to find. Read the thread from the beginning to see what I mean.

[DavePoole]

(Bilbo @ May 02 2007,11:26)

QUOTE

They certainly are attractive jungly trees and the topic has got me thimking . . .

They are a possibility here on the South Coast.

There's a few planted around here, although they still have some way to go before fruiting.  They grow well here and managed to ignore the very chilly weather of the 85/86 winter.  There are a couple of fruiting plants further west along the Devon coast and I understand there are also several in Cornwall.  

Outside the front of my place, there's a (private) driveway, car- parking area and then an 8ft. retaining wall dropping down to the main street running through the village.  A couple of avocados would be fine planted along the top and provide some privacy.  I raised a few last year and the strongest are to be planted out next spring.

[Alicehunter2000]

Well back from the trip where I met Kyle for the famed avocado's. Here we are standing in front of the tree. Thanks again to Kyle for showing me around and getting me a few seeds from this hardy tree ........crossing my fingers in hopes of germination.

[Alicehunter2000]

Here we are back at the parking garage holding up ........ um.....avocado seeds...yeah that's the ticket . Kyle is on the left holding the avocado and I am on the right holding some S. causarum that I also picked up on campus. Also got S. causarum X S. minor <----- is that correct Kyle? as well.

[_Keith]

(steve 9atx @ Apr. 27 2007,14:10)

QUOTE

David

Try the Fanicks Nursery website.  They're in San Antonio.  I'm sure they'd ship.

Steve

I bought 2 "Wilma" Avocados from Fanicks a couple years ago.  So far, they are what they promised to be.   Took 3 hard frost and temps to 27 without even losing the tender newer leaves.   They flowered like crazy the first year, only 2 feet tall.  Last year each made one fruit, and they are growing at a rate of 1.5 feet a year.  They do have other unique cold hardy varieties.  I  have been looking for an excuse to go back that way to pick a couple more varieties.

[Dave-Vero]

From the photos, you'd think Georgia fans were raiding the Gator campus.  

Different varieties seem to have very different growth rates.  My Brogdon, in its second year in the ground, is growing fast, despite periodic prunings and branch-weighting to develop a compact plant.  Monroe is slower and seemingly more compact.

[tank]

Dave,

Kyle picked up a couple for me and I managed to get all of them to sprout in under two weeks.  Did you manage to get some for tasting?   They are pretty good.  Definitely a different flavor from your typical "Florida" avocado.

I think the seed you got were S. causiarum x palmetto x (anything from the other hybrids to the original S. causiarum to plain old S. palmetto), but I'm sure Kyle will confirm.  S. causiarum x minor would be an interesting cross.  Kinda like Andre the Giant and ... a not so tall lady.

[Alicehunter2000]

Jason,

I'm always mixing up my Sabal names for some reason.......Cabbage Palm....that's what I meant. I did get one from Kyle for tasting. It was a whopper and very delicious. And your right, it was definetely different from the smooth skinned Florida variety. Like a cross between Florida and a Hass.....with a bit more Hass taste, but with the size of a Florida. I am crossing my fingers on getting some to sprout, but the big one that I tasted was cracked halfway through in 3 places, so I'm not sure if it will be viable. The other seeds were half the size as the big boy, so I'm not sure about them either......we'll see.

I didn't tell Kyle, but I stopped again on my way back home and looked for more seeds......didn't find any. But, I did break off some new growth at the base of a tree next to the main tree.... this tree looks like the cold cut it to the ground in the past, so it may not be the same variety. Anyway, I got a greenwood cutting and cut it to smaller twigs, root hormone and pot planted.....I don't have much confidence they will grow....but you never know. Even if it does grow, it might be from a genetically inferior tree.....since it suffered such cold damage.

Keith.....I'm going to have to check that site again. Maybe try and get some of those varieties your talking about

Steve.........I don't know if you are still following this thread........but how was your crop this year? Is the offer still good for those seeds from your tree? I'm waiting for December

[fastfeat]

Not to throw cold water on the excitement on your cold-hardy avo, guys, but I'd recommend budding or grafting of the tree in question. While growing seed of it may pass on some of the cold-hardiness (and other traits) of the parent, it may not. Seedlings of avos typically take 5-10 years or more to fruit, and, more often than not, they disappoint.

I'd recommend starting some seeds (the old toothpick and water technique works well, esp. if you have young kids), growing them out for a couple of years, then budding or grafting with scions of the Gainesville tree. I did some T-budding of avos back in my college days, and it was pretty easy to do. There should be plenty of good info available on techniques (time of year, rootstock diameter, etc) online.

BTW, I haven't heard of anyone doing avos from cuttings or air layering. I'd imagine this would be more difficult than budding or grafting. If you are successful doing it, props to you!!

[tank]

Ice water down my back.  Good thing they still sell them at the grocery store .

I guess we'll know whether they're cold hardy in a couple years once they get planted out.

[Alicehunter2000]

Jeez........just rain on my parade, why don't you.  ::

Nah....I knew those things, but I figured if I can't buy a "Gainesville" variety, I can get some seeds. BTW, if there are no other avocado trees around.....wouldn't the seed be self pollinated and therefore be true to the characteristics of the adult? As far as I know there are no other trees around. Does this hold true for palms as well?

Jason......has anyone ever told you, that you bear a striking resemblance to the governor of California? I've been told I look alot like that weird dude with a girls name.  

[metalfan]

David, never fear. We in the supposed cold zone have faith in you and your avocado.

Nice pics BTW.

Kyle, you better be at the raceline at 8 AM tomorrow morning (unless its pouring, LOL) with your flashing devil horns on.

Mummy girl will be there, hung or not, and if I can run hung at almost 50 you better be there at 18

[fastfeat]

Oh, it's Friday night, and I don't want to break out my genetics books for technical terms I'll have to explain later...

Suffice it to say that you've got a good chance of most of the characteristics of the parent being passed on through the seed, but seedlings will not be identical. The only way to pass along the traits you enjoy in that particular tree is to vegetatively copy it.

Just go to the grocery store, buy a bunch of avos, get some seeds going indoors over the Winter, and start raising some rootstock seedlings for a long-term project. Sounds like the tree is worth propagating; it could be gone tomorrow from a storm or ?? If the tree is as good as it sounds, you may develop the new "Florida Fuerte", "Arctic Haas", or "Frozen Bacon"...

Hell, the way CA (and Dade Co) avo groves are being plowed under for houses, you may have futures as avocado farmers :cool:

BTW, best of luck with your seedlings.

[Alicehunter2000]

So the rootstock does not have to have the cold-hardy traits as long as the graphed portion does?

What happens when it gets cold; does the upper, graphed (cold-hardy) limbs and stems impart their cold hardiness attributes to the bottom trunk and root system that came from the store bought variety avocado?

The whole grafting thing always was a bit confusing. I understand why you would graph onto something like a nematode resistant rootstock, but why would you take a perfectly fine fruit tree cut it up and then stick another perfectly fine trees limbs on it, unless you were trying to get some advantage by combining a better root system with a better fruit producing system?

[fastfeat]

David--

Ideally, having a cold-hardy rootstock would be best, if one is available. I'd suggest using some seeds off the tree in question as a good start if fruit is plentiful. The cold-hardiness of the rootstock is really not as critical, though, unless it's really cold. The ground will hold more heat than air; this is why trees (not palms) sprout back from the stump/roots if severely frozen.) Plus, you can mulch or otherwise protect the trunk (including graft union) if a severe freeze comes in.

There is no imparting of cold-hardiness (or other traits) between the rootstock and scion (upper portion). The main reason for grafting or budding is to be able to make exact copies of the tree you want to grow. If you can successfully grow twigs of your tree from cuttings (worth a try, but often very difficult) you would have the same result as grafting it onto a rootstock; grafting is usually easier.

It may be easier to visualize apples as an example. Think of "Red Delicious" and "Yellow Delicious". You could plant seeds out of either variety and end up with apple trees, though no seedlings will give you fruit identical to the apples you got the seeds out of. Seedlings of the "RD" may give you red fruit, maybe greenish, who knows, but they won't be identical to the apple you ate. Same with "YD". Since apples (like avos) are very difficult from cuttings, they're grafted or budded on rootstocks to allow the grower to make more trees exactly like the ones that gave you the "RD" or "YD".

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not holding my breath on getting any of my twigs to grow.......but you never know until you try. I think the whole grafting thing would be something that Kyle might try, since he has access to the agricultural dept. and tree there on campus. How bout it Kyle?

[tank]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Oct. 19 2007,17:27)

QUOTE

Jason......has anyone ever told you, that you bear a striking resemblance to the governor of California? I've been told I look alot like that weird dude with a girls name.  

I get that all the time.  Probably because I'm ripped and I carry around Crum's sword.  I'm off to harrass some ladies!

I think you look much better than Alice Cooper.  He looks like he has drank a pint of Jack Daniels everyday since he was 11 years old.  I always wondered why he had to wear make-up to look scary.

Dave, if your avacado seeds don't sprout, I'll send you one of my plants (assuming that I don't manage to kill a plant that grows like a weed).  Don't give up on the small seeds!

[Alicehunter2000]

Jason,

Thanks for the offer......I sent you a PM.

David

[kylecawazafla]

Woops, missed on this post. I'm trying to start a mini pam garden around the Avocado tree, so hopefuly will be able to do a few experiments with that avocado too then maybe! It was good meeting you David, have any germinated yet?

I'm glad to hear yours have germinated Jason!

[tank]

(kylecawazafla @ Oct. 24 2007,20:38)

QUOTE

Woops, missed on this post. I'm trying to start a mini pam garden around the Avocado tree, so hopefuly will be able to do a few experiments with that avocado too then maybe! It was good meeting you David, have any germinated yet?

I'm glad to hear yours have germinated Jason!

Thanks Kyle,

Good luck on your mini garden.  Is this guerrilla gardening or do you have the OK from the physical plant gestapo?

[Alicehunter2000]

Not yet.........but it has been very wet and cool up here since we got back. Today it is bright and sunny and warming quickly so hopefully........

[tank]

Its been cool and wet here for the past week as well.  I feel like I'm living in Seattle.  The frontal boundary has set up shop on top of Gainesville and looks as though its going to hang out for awhile.  Mold city.

[steve 9atx]

Ok, Floridians.  My loss is your gain.

A couple weeks ago we got our first "cool front" through Houston with some pretty good wind gusts.  It broke a major branch off of my avocado tree.  As it turned out, one of the branches on the avocado had rotted from the top surface down.  The branch was horizontal; over the years I caught the f'in squirrels using it as a scratching post.  I shot as many of them as I could, but I suppose over time they scratched down through the vascular material of the branch down to the wood causing it to rot.  This caused a weak spot that couldn't withstand the wind.

In any case, this left me with a driveway full of avocado tree bearing a dozen not-quite-ripe fruit.  I harvested the fruit and cut up the branch in a half hour.  My yard men took off with the avocado branches and leaves to sell at the farmer's market (Mexicans cook with the leaves).

We just sliced up the fruit to put on BLT's this evening (pic attached).  They were delicious.  I'm saving the pits for those interested.  PM me with how many you want and how you want to get them (SASE, FedEx no. etc.).

Steve

[Alicehunter2000]

A new developement. Two of my cuttings from one of the Gainesville trees have sprouted.

The tree that I got them from was the one that got cut down to the ground by a previous cold. So I am not sure it is of the same variety as the big tree that is pictured.

But, the main thing is that it is possible to get a clone from these trees!

In other news......none of my seeds have sprouted

[steve 9atx]

David

Keep me posted.  I got two more dry ones and three more with flesh on them for you if the one's I sent don't work.

Steve

[fastfeat]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Dec. 11 2007,18:59)

QUOTE

A new developement. Two of my cuttings from one of the Gainesville trees have sprouted.

The tree that I got them from was the one that got cut down to the ground by a previous cold. So I am not sure it is of the same variety as the big tree that is pictured.

But, the main thing is that it is possible to get a clone from these trees!

In other news......none of my seeds have sprouted

David--

Great to hear about getting avo cuttings to root--no small feat!

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks Steve, but I think maybe they just need more time. I got them planted and in the greenhouse, so maybe they are laying down some roots that I just can't see. They all looked perfectly viable so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I planted the large end down and the top of the small side is slightly visable above the soil line. I'm keeping them moist. Any other suggestions? I probably should have started them in a jar of water with toothpicks.

Fastfeat, thanks......I was pretty supprised finding those twigs had sprouted. I just dipped them in water and then in powdered rooting hormone and walllaa! Clones!

[Alicehunter2000]

BTW Ken.....I got those Bizzies bagged and on heat......looking forward to seeing what they are going to do.

[fastfeat]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Dec. 12 2007,22:52)

QUOTE

BTW Ken.....I got those Bizzies bagged and on heat......looking forward to seeing what they are going to do.

David--

Great to hear. Hope you get some sprouts soon. Got real hectic right before I left. Landlord stole most of my plants, incl all palms and cycads.  

I'm in TX for another month, looking forward, I guess to starting over  Legal action is forthcoming, but I see no hope of tracking stuff down.

Later--

Ken.

[Alicehunter2000]

Stole your plants! That's outrageous! What all did you lose?

[steve 9atx]

David

I haven't germinated avocado seeds, so I don't have any advice for you.  I have seen the toothpick and water jar method, but eveytime I see it, it looks like it just produces lots of roots and little foliage.

I'm sure they'll pop with time.

Steve

[Alicehunter2000]

Kyle, 2 of the G-ville seeds have sprouted (I think that big one that still had fruit on it is one of them). I also have 2 cuttings from that sprouted tree next to the big tree that are doing well.

Steve....still waiting on those Texas ones to sprout.....but I have high hopes for them.....I think they just take a while....especially this time of year.

Everything is in my little mini-greenhouse and staying warm.

[Dave-Vero]

Happy new year to your baby 'gator pears.

[steve 9atx]

Dave and Jason

Any luck with the seeds so far?  Just curious.

Steve

[Alicehunter2000]

Hey Steve, not yet.......but I have little doubt that they will sprout. Seeing how long it took the G-ville seeds (in winter).....the ones you gave me looked alot more viable and fresh. I'll let you know when they pop. They are probably putting down roots as we speak.

[tank]

Steve,

Nothing yet.  I actually left them in the package for a few days before I got a chance to deal with them.  I should have dealt with them the day they showed up. They had some fungus on them but they still might sprout.  Avocados are pretty resilient.  I cleaned them up with some bleach and fungicide and potted them up.  So far two have cracked (started germinating).

I'll keep you posted.

Thank you again.

I planted a "standard" Haas plants this summer just to see how it would fare, and it came through 21F without any noticeable damage.  The plant is about 5ft tall.  Should that be expected?  It does have some overhead cover.