Palm Fertilizer...Anyone Else Using This

[LJG]

17 minutes ago, Pando said:

Len I finally got the Peters stuff from the local store. When I showed them the picture of the bag, they turned totally serious, looked at me and said that this is some really good stuff. Then they found a bag in the back that I was able to buy. They had an interesting response like it was some big secret or something. 

That's funny. I doubt many palm nuts show up looking for that stuff. 

[Hammer]

24 minutes ago, LJG said:

That's funny. I doubt many palm nuts show up looking for that stuff. 

Len, do you know off hand where I might look for the stuff in Orange County? 

[LJG]

19 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Len, do you know off hand where I might look for the stuff in Orange County? 

Not sure. It took me a while to find the stuff here. I would ask them to give you a supplier in your area.

http://www.everris.com/Home/Ornamental-Horticulture/Dealers

one bummer is I was just on their site and they not longer make the Peters Excel 15-7-25 High Magnesium and Potassium formula. But you still might be able to get it. 

[yabazid]

What about Lutz spikes? I used the spikes on all the palms in March-April. Now thinking to do it again or just the granular from Lowes or home depot.  What does everyone prefer?    

[yachtingone]

Nice thread!  Thanks for posting it,  I'm going to Home Depot today!

Randy

[Hammer]

7 hours ago, LJG said:

Not sure. It took me a while to find the stuff here. I would ask them to give you a supplier in your area.

http://www.everris.com/Home/Ornamental-Horticulture/Dealers

one bummer is I was just on their site and they not longer make the Peters Excel 15-7-25 High Magnesium and Potassium formula. But you still might be able to get it. 

I saw the Southern Ag foliar spray you use.  I think that is Mag. and Potassium right?  Worse comes to worse, I can always supplement with that.

[Ben in Norcal]

7 hours ago, yabazid said:

What about Lutz spikes? I used the spikes on all the palms in March-April. Now thinking to do it again or just the granular from Lowes or home depot.  What does everyone prefer?    

I used the Lutz spikes the last couple of years, which are great for slopes and getting fert in the root zone, even if they are a PITA to put in.  However, now reading that since fert movement is almost exclusively downward, spikes may not be the best strategy.  I think it's like anything - a combination of strategies will probably have the highest efficacy.

[Palm Tree Jim]

19 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I used the Lutz spikes the last couple of years, which are great for slopes and getting fert in the root zone, even if they are a PITA to put in.  However, now reading that since fert movement is almost exclusively downward, spikes may not be the best strategy.  I think it's like anything - a combination of strategies will probably have the highest efficacy.

Makes sense....

[Palm Tree Jim]

1 hour ago, Hammer said:

I saw the Southern Ag foliar spray you use.  I think that is Mag. and Potassium right?  Worse comes to worse, I can always supplement with that.

I buy my fertilizer from Crop Productions which is South of us. To date, I have found no retail outlets that sell what I'm looking for.

 

[Alicehunter2000]

20 hours ago, LJG said:

But I doubt many people have such poor souls to run into this. 

 

Living on the coast with beach sand is problematic in this respect....near the sea we have poor unfortunate souls!

[LJG]

5 hours ago, Hammer said:

I saw the Southern Ag foliar spray you use.  I think that is Mag. and Potassium right?  Worse comes to worse, I can always supplement with that.

No K, but yes, it has Mg, Mn and Fe. I like it as it is a liquid and can be used foliar when plants need something fast. I tried it in my fertigation this year too. No clue if it added much to plant health. Just wanted to add more Mn since that is one thing Peters is lacking in its formula. 

With fertilization the most important thing is understanding your soils fist. People waste a lot of money on fert thinking more is better. My soil is almost entirely DG. It is just one step up from sand in terms of drainage and lack of organic matter. I must fertilize a lot. If I had really organic soils like Gary Levine or clay soils, of course I wouldn't need too. Using minors can be tricky. You can create a different deficiency by treating another.  

[LJG]

33 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Living on the coast with beach sand is problematic in this respect....near the sea we have poor unfortunate souls!

Sometimes autocorrect only makes words worse

Yes, FL looks to have some challenges in the soil department. 

[Darold Petty]

21 hours ago, LJG said:

The best Palm fertilizer I have found is the water soluable stuff from Peters

Len, could you show us a photo of the packaging ?  Thanks very much ! 

[XYZ]

Len:

You make an excellent point above about the common mistake made by many gardeners of thinking more is better when it comes to shotgun fertilization.

More than concern over making a mess of things by misuse of micros (other than things that can promptly induce phytotoxicity with small excess doses, like aluminum and boron), I think people should also be aware how much abrupt swings in soil pH can wreak havoc with nutrient availability to plants at root-soil interface. "Incremental" is always a good word to keep in mind when planning changes in fertilization regimens and garden bed pH correction.

J

[LJG]

J, I wish I was smart enough to not fall for this myself. But I am not. I learned my lesson from mistakes with Dolomitic Lime. Your use of encapsulated gypsum is wise.

[LJG]

5 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Len, could you show us a photo of the packaging ?  Thanks very much ! 

Here you go Darold.

[JT in Japan]

I've. Been using Scott's, water soluble. I seem to recall it was recommended here on PT. I still don't know if I'm mixing it right in the EZFlo system. But I notice my washies that have been on it for the last year have thicker bases than those that are on hand watering (all are potted).

[Hammer]

On 8/22/2016, 6:56:03, Hammer said:

I saw the Southern Ag foliar spray you use.  I think that is Mag. and Potassium right?  Worse comes to worse, I can always supplement with that.

 

On 8/21/2016, 11:22:32, LJG said:

Not sure. It took me a while to find the stuff here. I would ask them to give you a supplier in your area.

http://www.everris.com/Home/Ornamental-Horticulture/Dealers

one bummer is I was just on their site and they not longer make the Peters Excel 15-7-25 High Magnesium and Potassium formula. But you still might be able to get it. 

Len, have you determined which product you will use to replace the Peters Excel?

[tinman10101]

len palmgain was what i started using since it had the micros as well. garden is looking awesome.  jim is right, i ordered directly through home depot and do ship to store if its under $50 but i think i will order 50lbs and get free shipping in a week. this stuff stinks btw.  my wife is complaining left and right about the smell but it no different than the greenganic stuff i been fertilizing the yard with.  10lbs for $15.  

tin

Edited August 24, 2016 by tinman10101

[LJG]

Tin, good to know. I did order 4 10 pound bags and got free shipping. The blew through the 2 pound bag I had and yes, it does stink. Not as bad as fish emulsion, but still noticeable. 

Adam, I haven't figured that out yet. However, in looking at what John posted above, it seems Universol Orange was bought by Everris. The same company that had Peters. The formulas are very similar and maybe that is why the stopped carrying the old Peters formula was due to redundancy. 

[JT in Japan]

On 8/21/2016, 10:59:28, LJG said:

Geez. I just paid $13 for a 2 pound bag!

Geez, I just found it available in Japan: $77 for a 2 pound bag! Amazon Japan.

[Matt in OC]

I wonder how many bags HD has sold since this thread was posted. I know I bought four...

[Ben in Norcal]

Whoa, this stuff sure does reek.  Smells like strong manure - is it organic?  Put it down in front yesterday and I'm waiting for everyone within about 6 blocks to complain.

Not sure if my wife is going to let me put this down in back...she thinks the dogs are going to eat it.

[cm05]

I didn't notice the smell after I watered it in, but my palms are in pots so I didn't have to use a lot to begin with.

It's only been about a week since I fertilized half of my palms with PalmGain and I'm liking the results so far. I've noticed my Majesty and Filibusta have been growing faster.

[XYZ]

Odd. I broadcast some into pots on the open terrace at recommended rate, watered it thoroughly and slight odor was completely gone in less than 24 hrs. Fish emulsion definitely sticks around more. Can't say I found it that offensive, even with the bag open in the kitchen for a while. Don't have the label at hand, but higher iron may be partial cause for offensive odor.

J

[Matt in OC]

Yeah, it stinks a bit when you're putting it out but after working it in to the soil and watering, I only smell it if I'm right on top of something I fertilized. 

[Kris]

I see most have posted stills of the fertz front cover(its label).

Now can anybody show us how the content visibly appears after opening that bag ?

Iam curious to see if it's granulated,crystalline or looks like manure..

Love,

Kris.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Kris

[Zeeth]

I've been using Florikan 8-2-12 for Florida soils and I'm happy with it. I haven't noticed any faster growth, but my palms, especially the coconuts, are holding way more leaves than normal. It's actually a little of a nuisance because they're literally laying on the ground. I assume that's good though, because K deficiency hits hard in the winter, and they usually lose more leaves than they grow during that point. I haven't had a leaf go through the natural stage of going from green to brown and falling off since I started using the fert in March, and the coconuts have all grown 7 or 8 leaves in that time frame.

Here's a before/after on one of my coconuts with that. You can see that none of the leaves in the March photo actually went away, they just became lower on the palm.

[Josh-O]

15 hours ago, Zeeth said:

I've been using Florikan 8-2-12 for Florida soils and I'm happy with it. I haven't noticed any faster growth, but my palms, especially the coconuts, are holding way more leaves than normal. It's actually a little of a nuisance because they're literally laying on the ground. I assume that's good though, because K deficiency hits hard in the winter, and they usually lose more leaves than they grow during that point. I haven't had a leaf go through the natural stage of going from green to brown and falling off since I started using the fert in March, and the coconuts have all grown 7 or 8 leaves in that time frame.

Here's a before/after on one of my coconuts with that. You can see that none of the leaves in the March photo actually went away, they just became lower on the palm.

wow!

that's a drastic difference.

[Josh-O]

On 8/22/2016, 4:01:50, LJG said:

Here you go Darold.

Is that a picture of the back of the Palmgain bag Len?

[Josh-O]

just ordered 5 bags myself

[LJG]

25 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

Is that a picture of the back of the Palmgain bag Len?

Peters 

[Josh-O]

16 minutes ago, LJG said:

Peters 

thanks

[enigma99]

Put this stuff down 3 days ago and my yard still smells! But it seems to be getting better

[XYZ]

Are people watering this in immediately or just broadcasting it around their beds and waiting for the next irrigation cycle to wet it down? I found that giving it a good watering through cut the smell almost immediately. Besides a higher Fe (2.12%) concentration than Peter's (0.07%), this has 5 x the concentration of S (>15%), more B and Mg. Negligibly lower ratio of N to K and a lot less P than Peter's pHLow. Again, the higher iron concentration plus the sulphur as Jim mentioned early on, are probably the culprits for the smell.

Both look to be excellent products that have palm growers in mind. Based on trust in the labels alone and given my bias towards potted Neotropical palms, the NPK ratio, extra sulphur, iron, boron and magnesium make Palmgain my first choice by a wide margin. I agree that it should probably be used in enclosed interiorscapes with caution unless a long weekend is at hand and the space can be vented. Both require supplemental Ca under my conditions.

BTW, Palmgain is a physically blended chemical fertilizer, so important that bag is shaken to assure even distribution of the prills/granules containing different elements.

I will be applying this in the greenhouse this weekend and let you know how it goes vis a vis the smell.

J

[Matt in OC]

I watered it in really well and no smell, really.

[XYZ]

Well, there you go folks...

Thanks for the observation, Matt.

J

[cm05]

On August 31, 2016 at 1:02:07 AM, Kris said:

I see most have posted stills of the fertz front cover(its label).

Now can anybody show us how the content visibly appears after opening that bag ?

Iam curious to see if it's granulated,crystalline or looks like manure..

Love,

Kris.

The granules are a little larger than Osmocote, but they were still small enough to easily slide underneath the rocky top dressings on my palms.

[LJG]

J, the Peters is water soluble and run through fertigation to a yard that has everything from aloes and agaves to palms and cycads and everything inbetween. So I like the numbers on Peters for that specific purpose. If both were granular and I only had palms to worry about, PalmGain would be a clear winner in my opinion too. 

[Tracy]

On 8/22/2016, 9:21:10, LJG said:

No K, but yes, it has Mg, Mn and Fe. I like it as it is a liquid and can be used foliar when plants need something fast. I tried it in my fertigation this year too. No clue if it added much to plant health. Just wanted to add more Mn since that is one thing Peters is lacking in its formula. 

With fertilization the most important thing is understanding your soils fist. People waste a lot of money on fert thinking more is better. My soil is almost entirely DG. It is just one step up from sand in terms of drainage and lack of organic matter. I must fertilize a lot. If I had really organic soils like Gary Levine or clay soils, of course I wouldn't need too. Using minors can be tricky. You can create a different deficiency by treating another.  

After reading this string, and not being too sure about what is lacking or bountiful in my soils, I'm a bit reluctant to rush out and buy anything.  I do have very well drained soil, no clay, and very sandy.  Only in a couple of areas do I have good organics (where former trees were stump ground and the organic material was left to be blended in with my sandy soil).  When MattyB was over, his first comment was that I needed to add compost, which I have done in some areas, but probably could do a better job.  I've installed drip, but no liquid fertilizer bleed.  So does anyone know what is working best in sandy So Cal coastal soils with our relatively high tds imported water, what is working well?  Sorry for my narrow focus, but it sounds like there is no one size fits all for every location and soil type.