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Dypsis lanceolata variation


Tracy

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So I have a pair of Dypsis lanceolata's growing in the yard.  Once upon a time they were both on the same side of the yard with the same exposure.  Sometime late in 2013, I transplanted one to the opposite side of the yard in a bit more sun.  While it experienced more burning initially, it seems to be slowly adapting.  The other is full shade in winter, from my house's shadow, then in spring and summer as the sun moves through a higher arc, its got sun most of the day until I planted a banana to its west to provide it pm filtered shade.
  All background, but the real question is in the photos.  As you will see D lanceolata #1, on the sunny side is quite fuzzy on the top of the leaf sheath & petiole, while D lanceolata #2 on the north side in less sun has some fuzz at the top of the leaf sheath and minimal fuzz on the petiole.  Further distinguishing them, D l #1 never has any color to the emerging leafs, while D l #2 always has some peachy tint to the emergent leaf.

Is this within the normal variation of Dypsis lanceolata, or is one more "typical" than the other?  Is one unusual for its traits?

Dypsis lanceolata #1 with fuzziness and no color to the emergent first:20160818-104A4126.thumb.jpg.f573917cee7b20160818-104A4123.thumb.jpg.04fe8c6a255e20160818-104A4124.thumb.jpg.4ba771b9ee7320160818-104A4125.thumb.jpg.7283ba95105a

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Dypsis lanceolata #2, without much fuzz but some peach tinting on the emergent leaf.20160818-104A4132.thumb.jpg.4a0d68d4411d20160818-104A4129.thumb.jpg.2b04bcf5942b20160818-104A4130.thumb.jpg.13a3d55d27be

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Tracy,

I've got a couple different variations as well. When I first started collecting, the ones available nearly always had a peach colored "push"; they seemed slow to me & I could not nurse them into full sun easily, even here on the coast. I lost the one I had in the 2007 freeze. Later on, came a much hardier version that the guys at Jungle Music jokingly called "lanceonada". It is much fuzzier on the petioles, & for me, grows faster & better in full sun. I've since found another one of those early versions. It is prettier imo, but is more cold sensitive, sun sensitive, & is just slower overall. Almost no fuzz whatsoever. I'm sure there are other versions out there; yours looks plenty happy!

 

Bret

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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2 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Later on, came a much hardier version that the guys at Jungle Music jokingly called "lanceonada". It is much fuzzier on the petioles, & for me, grows faster & better in full sun.

Very interesting.  I bought a lanceonada from Phil & Jessie at Jungle Music (2011 sometime), and brought it over in a pot.  It actually seemed more sensitive to sun to me.  I put it in the ground and the main trunk died (rot) shortly after I put it in the ground winter of 2015.  About the same time there was a new little offshoot.  I have had two leaves on that and one new leaf spike pushing which I hope opens before autumn.  The "lanceonada" was/is slow for me.  The attached photo is the "lanceonada" from 2011, while still in a pot in my Carlsbad backyard.  Funny to see all those pots in the background, which had small cycads in them, that are now in the ground here in Leucadia.  Hard to tell from this photo, but I wonder if this is what yours looked like.20111112-IMG_9039.thumb.jpg.55924b869e5e

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 9 months later...
On 8/18/2016, 7:38:52, quaman58 said:

When I first started collecting, the ones available nearly always had a peach colored "push"; they seemed slow to me & I could not nurse them into full sun easily, even here on the coast.

I wish that both of my plants pushed with the colorful leaf, but it is as you observed, the slower, more sun sensitive plant which has them even as the plant has ringed trunk.  Meanwhile, the fuzzy and faster variety never shows color on the newly emerging leaves.  Anyone have photos and experience with the colorful, variety of Dypsis lanceolata as a fully mature, flowering plant?  Here is the colorful one with the ringed trunk opening a new leaf.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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The always green emergent leaf plant, which handles the sun so much better.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 2 years later...

I'm still seeing colorful emergent leaves, but the difference in trunk size between my two Dypsis lanceolata is becoming ever more apparent.  The colorful leaf plant and narrower gauge trunk plant also is more susceptible to burning in too much sun as well as being more cold sensitive.  Here it is in 2019.  The white on the plant's trunk also makes me suspect a possible hybrid, but what?

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Once again the difference in trunk thickness with what I will call the typical Dypsis lanceolata, more sun and cold tolerance as well.  Which variation of Dypsis lanceolata are you growing and are you seeing a performance difference if you have a couple of forms?20190611-104A3829.thumb.jpg.1d9289341fc339bfd8b5b4598ac32169.jpg20190611-104A3830.thumb.jpg.534d6a32d0cffff369e81610fb3bf173.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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No real comment on your question, just a heads up for FL folks that these do great in FL, super easy and beautiful palm.

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Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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I have the two different Lanceolate varieties planted side by side in my garden. One was an earlier JD Anderson variety, the other the later "Lanceonada" Jungle Music variety. As noted above, there are big differences in growth rate, cold hardiness, trunk diameter, fuzziness, etc., with the "Lanceonada" version being way more hardy. Interestingly, the JD Anderson plant turned out as a single trunk variety. Here is a side by side photo (The Baronii in the middle took a beating this year with our long cool rainy spring):

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Check out the battle scars on the JD Anderson variety trunk (I know I should probably remove this palm, but....):

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Mission Viejo, CA

Limited coastal influence

5-10 days of frost

IPS and PSSC Member

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4 hours ago, Brett in Mission Viejo said:

As noted above, there are big differences in growth rate, cold hardiness, trunk diameter, fuzziness, etc., with the "Lanceonada" version being way more hardy.

Interesting that your "Lanconada" looks like my more vigorous form of Dypsis lanceolata.  My "Lanceo-nada" which re-sprouted after the original plant died of pink rot is still quite small and seems slower.  It's difficult to photograph because I didn't dig the roots out, but had planted other plants adjacent to it because I didn't expect it to put up a new growth point.  For now it's hidden behind a clumping of solitary Chamaedoreas and a Cussonia spicata tree.  The Cussonia will give it head room by the end of the summer I'm sure, because it really puts on growth during the summer months.   It will be interesting to see if the "Lanceo-Nada" turns out to look like my green Dypsis lanceolata or something else.  Your JD Anderson looks to have the thinner trunk like my plant that puts out the colorful leaves too.  No battle scars yet on my trunk though!

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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5 hours ago, redant said:

No real comment on your question, just a heads up for FL folks that these do great in FL, super easy and beautiful palm.

Which variation do you see or both?  Deep green ringed trunks or slightly powdery green?  Colorful emergent leaves or green?  I've suspected for a while that the one with the colorful emergent leaf, slightly powdery green ringed trunk and slimmer trunk is a Dypsis lanceolata hybrid, but no idea what with.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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16 hours ago, Tracy said:

The colorful leaf plant and narrower gauge trunk plant also is more susceptible to burning in too much sun as well as being more cold sensitive.  Here it is in 2019.  The white on the plant's trunk also makes me suspect a possible hybrid, but what?

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I forgot to point out that with this one I also see a lot of limbs which can't support themselves over time.  They are still alive and green but they end up bending down until they hit the ground or another plant to support them.  You can probably see where I've had to cut some off prematurely because they are both an eye sore and a problem if my dog tries to walk around them.

20190611-104A3825-2.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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3 hours ago, Tracy said:

Which variation do you see or both?  Deep green ringed trunks or slightly powdery green?  Colorful emergent leaves or green?  I've suspected for a while that the one with the colorful emergent leaf, slightly powdery green ringed trunk and slimmer trunk is a Dypsis lanceolata hybrid, but no idea what with.

I have about 25 in the ground but they are all from the same parent so they all seem pretty much the same.  I'll though in a couple pics tomorrow.

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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I've heard from other growers that the robust form has flower inflorescence that open after barely exposed from the sheath while the less robust form extends much further out and are much more branching.

Edited by joe_OC

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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I had two forms growing in my old garden...The robust one was faster and more robust in every way. The smaller one threw nice colourful new leaves...you can see it in the centre of this photo...

 

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Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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13 hours ago, joe_OC said:

I've heard from other growers that the robust form has flower inflorescence that open after barely exposed from the sheath while the less robust form extends much further out and are much more branching.

This is the inflorescence on my more vigorous growing one.  I can't compare to my less vigorous plant because it still hasn't produced one yet.

20171011-104A7696.jpg

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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5 hours ago, Tracy said:

This is the inflorescence on my more vigorous growing one.  I can't compare to my less vigorous plant because it still hasn't produced one yet.

Same here. No flowers on my less vigorous JD Anderson variety, which is 10 years older than my vigorous Lanceonada seeding version pictured here:

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Mission Viejo, CA

Limited coastal influence

5-10 days of frost

IPS and PSSC Member

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Brett and Tracy,

 

Both of yours' bloom like the lanceolata from Rancho Soledad.  This is what I refer to as the standard form of lanceolata.

Edited by joe_OC
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Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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Can anyone compare the cold/cool hardiness of the vigorous form of lanceolata to other clumping Dypsis (eg lutescens, arenarum, pembana)?

Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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13 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Can anyone compare the cold/cool hardiness of the vigorous form of lanceolata to other clumping Dypsis (eg lutescens, arenarum, pembana)?

Way less heat demanding than lutescens but not quite as robust as say baronii or onilahensis.  Easy enough to grow well in Auckland without special care though seedlings don't like winter.

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On 6/15/2019 at 4:44 AM, richnorm said:

Way less heat demanding than lutescens but not quite as robust as say baronii or onilahensis.  Easy enough to grow well in Auckland without special care though seedlings don't like winter.

Thanks Rich, there’s a few decent lutescens around Melbourne although most look ugly. Sounds like lanceolata has some promise. 

Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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Found an old photo of my robust D.lanceolata...grew like a rocket...green new leaf though...

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Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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  • 2 years later...

Resurrecting an old thread. Snooping around this morning and noticed one of my small D. Lanceolata’s is throwing a somewhat tinted new leaf. No confirmation about the trunk color yet obviously but it seems to be a pretty good grower. Grown in shade with heavy organic top dressing. 
 

-dale

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  • 5 months later...

The skinny form with the colorful emerging leaflets is pushing out it's first flower spathe, several years after the one I think of as the "standard" form of D lanceolata.  The trunk on this makes me think of a hybrid with D onilahensis with the white on the ringed trunks but if that were the case I would expect a more intermediate leaflet width between D lanceolata and D onilahensis.  As you can see the leaflets are wide and have the typical look of D lanceolata.  Petioles on this one aren't strong enough to support the weight of older branches, so you can see how they cave under the pressure and the frond drops down.  I recall that Matt in SD has or had this form anyone else want to share their experience with this form or photos?

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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I noted the damage on three emerging spears that appear to have occurred about the same time.  I'm guessing it was associated with one of our many cold snaps.  This has been an exceptionally dry and clear winter which translates into our coldest mornings on the coast.  Winter of 21/22 will go down as one of our consistently coldest in a while even though we didn't hit any one day ecords for cold.  Take a look at the damage on each of these newly emerging spears.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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7 hours ago, Tracy said:

I noted the damage on three emerging spears that appear to have occurred about the same time.  I'm guessing it was associated with one of our many cold snaps.  This has been an exceptionally dry and clear winter which translates into our coldest mornings on the coast.  Winter of 21/22 will go down as one of our consistently coldest in a while even though we didn't hit any one day ecords for cold.  Take a look at the damage on each of these newly emerging spears.

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Yeah I’d say that’s it, likely minor cold damage during spear development. I noticed similar on mine last winter and we get much colder more consistently than you. Mine saw 32-36F / 0-2C about 7/8 times with light frost last winter but there’s only minor cosmetic damage similar to what yours is showing. Here’s what mine looks like now, not even noticeable on the underside of the rachis and some leaflets. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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I also have two Lanceolata's that I feel are slightly different. Wether its through genetic variation or possibly hybridizing; I don't have a clue. Mine are quite different in age so it makes it somewhat confusing as maybe what im noticing is just the difference between a young lanceolate and a more mature specimen. But it does seem to me the the younger one is more sensitive to cool / cold weather then the more mature is; now or even when it was much younger. I also feel like the crownshaft and leaf stems seem slightly different. The more mature one always looks great no matter what time year or weather, while the other one seems to be a little more affected by cool / cold weather. It will tend to get a few brown spots and seems to be a little more yellow looking during the cool months while the other looks great year round. I do notice a little color on the opening leaf (I would say its somewhat peachy) But as I recall they both get a little color like that when opening. The more mature one with the dark green trunk is what I think of more as the "classic" lanceolate. The young one I have is from the same group as the one Dale has. 

Here is the more mature one

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Here is the younger one

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It seems like the Dypsis species in general seem to have a bit of variation amongst them.

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I'd never heard of the Lanceonada version, but i bought some 4" and 1g pots from Floribunda and an Etsy seller (PlantPictorial) last year.  I planted a couple in the fall, but I think they are all dead now.  Maybe in a "normal" winter they'd be fine here, but 4 hours of 24-26F with frost fried them.  One clump *might* come back, there's still some green on the stem on one trunk.  It was in a somewhat protected area, so it probably had less frost.  As a cold reference, the 15' tall Dypsis Pembana was also 75% defoliated, but is already pushing new leaves.  I'm sure they would have done better if they were larger, but I shouldn't have planted them out in October-November...durrrrrr....

So is anyone still selling the "Lanceonada" version that's a bit hardier?  

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1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

So is anyone still selling the "Lanceonada" version that's a bit hardier?  

I have something acquired from Phil at Jungle Music back in roughly 2011 or 2012.  I purchased with the intent of planting in Leucadia when I finished my remodel, and put it in the ground in late 2014.  It died but I didn't dig out the roots.  I planted some other things adjacent to it after it died, only to have it shoot out a new growth point.  I still have the plant, but it's in a crowded spot.   The original experience continues to be true, that it is far less hardy than my other two Dypsis lanceolata, so I would not say that "lanconada" is hardier.  First 2 photos are when It was still growing in a pot, before moving it to Leucadia and putting it into the ground.  Third shot is where I planted it before it died and put out the new trunk I have today.  It's hard to see, but it had a sucker on it when I planted it and both the sucker and the original trunk died, with nothing visible alive above the soil line.  It was several months or maybe even a year before the new growth point shocked me by emerging.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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That's a really long time for a new growing point to randomly emerge!  I'm sure I would have dug it out and replaced it by then.  

At least I know that I do not need to search for a "Lanceonada," since it isn't necessarily hardier than the other type.  Mine are still too small to tell what type they are, but I do recall the early leaves coming out not quite green.  So they might be the "slightly peachy" color initially.

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/12/2019 at 10:08 PM, joe_OC said:

I've heard from other growers that the robust form has flower inflorescence that open after barely exposed from the sheath while the less robust form extends much further out and are much more branching.

Granted this is the first inflorescence to open on this, my less robust form but it is doing the exact opposite of what you describe Joe.  This slower form is tight as seen in the first two photos, and fruit hanging off the more vigorous form in the last photo.  The inflo and fruit hang down much further on the more vigorous than the less vigorous form.  I'll be interested to see what color, shape and size the fruit ends up being on this less vigorous form too.  Answers to come later this summer I hope.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 1 year later...

I got my issue of Palm Journal today and saw an announcement about C. Blackii with a link to Don Hodel’s article. Does this shed any light on the two different types of Lanceolata some of us have seen?

Many congrats to Larry Black! ☺️

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13 hours ago, Matt in OC said:

I got my issue of Palm Journal today and saw an announcement about C. Blackii with a link to Don Hodel’s article. Does this shed any light on the two different types of Lanceolata some of us have seen?

Many congrats to Larry Black! ☺️

Awesome! Thanks Matt. My “Lanceolata” in question just opened up a few fronds this weeek and they are continually hinted with color. I’ll check out if they have any of the other characteristics Don mentioned referencing the new “Blackii” ID when I return home from a business trip. Thanks. 
 

-dale 

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My C lanceolatus keys out to be somewhere halfway between lanceolatus and blackii…

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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