Coconut Range In Florida - Does Anyone Have a Map?

[Walt]

All the most northern grown coconuts are water assisted, i.e., growing near large bodies of water that has enough heat capacity to radiate the heat off at night to keep the surrounding area warm enough so that a coconut palm isn't killed by cold/freeze.

That prompts a question in my mind as to what's the most northern limit for a non water assisted fruiting coconut palm to be grown fairly long term. I would submit it is probably close to 100 miles farther south than the most northern coconut growing near water. The only exception to an inland grown fruiting coconut palm would be one growing at a relative higher elevation with good cold air drainage.

I don't get around much in Florida (have little desire to do so), but the farthest north I've ever seen a mature fruiting coconut growing was in Avon Park, Florida. But Avon Park is on the Lake Wales Ridge, and at a higher elevation, thus it runs warmer at night. I would think one could probably find a fruiting coconut palm growing in Polk County (bordering north of Highlands County where Avon Park is) on the Lake Wales Ridge. Makes me wonder if Bok Tower in Lake Wales (Polk County) ever tried growing a coconut palm. I was only at Bok Tower once back in 2000, and I didn't see a coconut palm, but from what I did see, I would think a coconut could be grown there as Bok Tower grounds are on the Lake Wales Ridge, and I think the highest point there is more than 300 feet above sea level. 

I would hazard a guess, but I doubt if one would find a fruiting coconut palm growing in inland Florida (with no benefit of a body of water near it; without benefit of elevation; without benefit of some special man made microclimate, such as being grown in a court yard (surrounded by tall buildings on the west and north side) nor the benefit of the heat island effect of a city, etc., farther north than inland south Florida. The most northern mature fruiting coconut palm I ever ran across was about 26 mile south of Lake Placid in Glades County. But this palm was killed during the freezes back in 2010. It was growing close to US 27 and I took a photo of it after it was killed. I'm sure there's others in more obscure places. When ever I do travel my eye is always on the alert for non native tropical palms.

[Eukalyptus]

Which are available? In South Florida, are they growing?

 

Nerium oleander bush flower

Plane tree

Oak tree

Olive tree

Pinus pinea tree

Pomegranate tree

Phoenix dactylifera

Macadamia tree

Lemon tree

Chestnut tree

Liquidambar tree

Spruce tree

Laurus nobilis tree

Cocoa tree

F. carica tree

Attalea funifera tree

Yemen coffee tree

C. siliqua tree

Acacia xiphophylla tree

Buxaceae tree

Corylus tree

Tamarindus tree
 

[pj_orlando_z9b]

On 2/7/2017, 7:59:04, Walt said:

All the most northern grown coconuts are water assisted, i.e., growing near large bodies of water that has enough heat capacity to radiate the heat off at night to keep the surrounding area warm enough so that a coconut palm isn't killed by cold/freeze.

That prompts a question in my mind as to what's the most northern limit for a non water assisted fruiting coconut palm to be grown fairly long term. I would submit it is probably close to 100 miles farther south than the most northern coconut growing near water. The only exception to an inland grown fruiting coconut palm would be one growing at a relative higher elevation with good cold air drainage.

I don't get around much in Florida (have little desire to do so), but the farthest north I've ever seen a mature fruiting coconut growing was in Avon Park, Florida. But Avon Park is on the Lake Wales Ridge, and at a higher elevation, thus it runs warmer at night. I would think one could probably find a fruiting coconut palm growing in Polk County (bordering north of Highlands County where Avon Park is) on the Lake Wales Ridge. Makes me wonder if Bok Tower in Lake Wales (Polk County) ever tried growing a coconut palm. I was only at Bok Tower once back in 2000, and I didn't see a coconut palm, but from what I did see, I would think a coconut could be grown there as Bok Tower grounds are on the Lake Wales Ridge, and I think the highest point there is more than 300 feet above sea level. 

I would hazard a guess, but I doubt if one would find a fruiting coconut palm growing in inland Florida (with no benefit of a body of water near it; without benefit of elevation; without benefit of some special man made microclimate, such as being grown in a court yard (surrounded by tall buildings on the west and north side) nor the benefit of the heat island effect of a city, etc., farther north than inland south Florida. The most northern mature fruiting coconut palm I ever ran across was about 26 mile south of Lake Placid in Glades County. But this palm was killed during the freezes back in 2010. It was growing close to US 27 and I took a photo of it after it was killed. I'm sure there's others in more obscure places. When ever I do travel my eye is always on the alert for non native tropical palms.

If you hit 300 ft. above sea level aren't you reaching a limitation where temperatures could be a little cooler year round? In cold advective nights, not radiational, I would think 300 ft. could be colder than places lower. That's how it worked in the Northern parts of the US. 400 ft. was the difference of sometimes 1 or 2 degrees. 

There were some nice fruiting coconuts at sea world in Orlando but I understand they protected in winters or had great microclimates. I believe you meant natural fruiting. 

[Walt]

53 minutes ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

If you hit 300 ft. above sea level aren't you reaching a limitation where temperatures could be a little cooler year round? In cold advective nights, not radiational, I would think 300 ft. could be colder than places lower. That's how it worked in the Northern parts of the US. 400 ft. was the difference of sometimes 1 or 2 degrees. 

There were some nice fruiting coconuts at sea world in Orlando but I understand they protected in winters or had great microclimates. I believe you meant natural fruiting. 

I would say at 300 feet in altitude in Florida the temperature would start to get cooler. It's hard to say. What I do know is that there is approximately a 7 degree average difference from my property to up on the hill in the town of Lake Placid. The difference is about 70 feet in elevation. This is on radiational cooling nights, not advective cooling nights. Cold air drains to lower ground and warmer air rises upward, where it gets trapped by cooler air above it, creating an temperature inversion layer. I have some local topography maps, and up in town averages around 150 feet elevation. If you look at the second graphic at the below link, imagine the town of Lake Placid up on the hill to the right, and my place down lower on the left (where there are building structures). After more than 20 yearss living here, I empirically know it's much warmer at elevation and near large lakes. The flora is proof of that. My first bad freeze was on January 5, 2001, when I recorded 22 degrees in my front yard (probably 20 degrees farther away from the house on a lower portion of my property). All my bougainvilleas were melted to the ground. Yet up in town they were in full bloom! My big white bird of paradise (a zone 9b plant) was fried. Yet, the big travellers palm (a zone 10a plant) up in town wasn't hurt at all. That's when I first realized the value of elevation on the Florida peninsula. Archbold Biological Station 8 miles south of Lake Placid tied their all-time low temperature of 13 degrees. But again, up in town papayas still had their leaves. A testament to elevation and warm air inversion.

I also talked with an orange grove owner who told me he had groves on high ground and on low ground, and how his citrus on high ground wouldn't be hurt, while the same species on low ground incurred lots of damage. https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/images/1883-temperature-inversion

I've told this story before, but when my wife was still working, one cold morning she pulled out of our driveway, and the car thermometer read 31 degrees. It remained 31 degrees mostly through our neighborhood of Sylvan Shores. But when she started up LaGrow Ave toward US 27, the thermometer started to rise as she ascended the hill. When she got to the top of the hill on US 27, the thermometer read 39 degrees! This was all in a span of about one minute. I took the below photos and videos of tropical palms in and around Lake Placid back in 2016. These palms are either on high ground or near lakeside. But the outlying rural areas get much colder.

 

[kinzyjr]

2 minutes ago, Walt said:

I would say at 300 feet in altitude in Florida the temperature would start to get cooler. It's hard to say. What I do know is that there is approximately a 7 degree average difference from my property to up on the hill in the town of Lake Placid. The difference is about 70 feet in elevation. This is on radiational cooling nights, not advective cooling nights. Cold air drains to lower ground and warmer air rises upward, where it gets trapped by cooler air above it, creating an temperature inversion layer. I have some local topography maps, and up in town averages around 150 feet elevation. If you look at the second graphic at the below link, imagine the town of Lake Placid up on the hill to the right, and my place down lower on the left (where there are building structures). After more than 20 yearss living here, I empirically know it's much warmer at elevation and near large lakes. The flora is proof of that. My first bad freeze was on January 5, 2001, when I recorded 22 degrees in my front yard (probably 20 degrees farther away from the house on a lower portion of my property). All my bougainvilleas were melted to the ground. Yet up in town they were in full bloom! My big white bird of paradise (a zone 9b plant) was fried. Yet, the big travellers palm (a zone 10a plant) up in town wasn't hurt at all. That's when I first realized the value of elevation on the Florida peninsula. Archbold Biological Station 8 miles south of Lake Placid tied their all-time low temperature of 13 degrees. But again, up in town papayas still had their leaves. A testament to elevation and warm air inversion.

I also talked with an orange grove owner who told me he had groves on high ground and on low ground, and how his citrus on high ground wouldn't be hurt, while the same species on low ground incurred lots of damage. https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/images/1883-temperature-inversion

I've told this story before, but when my wife was still working, one cold morning she pulled out of our driveway, and the car thermometer read 31 degrees. It remained 31 degrees mostly through our neighborhood of Sylvan Shores. But when she started up LaGrow Ave toward US 27, the thermometer started to rise as she ascended the hill. When she got to the top of the hill on US 27, the thermometer read 39 degrees! This was all in a span of about one minute. I took the below photos and videos of tropical palms in and around Lake Placid back in 2016. These palms are either on high ground or near lakeside. But the outlying rural areas get much colder

That's definitely like that all over Florida, Walt.  I lived in the urban part of Lakeland during the 2010 freeze.  It bottomed off at 26F during that freeze for me, but in the outlying areas, some folks recorded temperatures in the mid-teens!

[pj_orlando_z9b]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

I would say at 300 feet in altitude in Florida the temperature would start to get cooler. It's hard to say. What I do know is that there is approximately a 7 degree average difference from my property to up on the hill in the town of Lake Placid. The difference is about 70 feet in elevation. This is on radiational cooling nights, not advective cooling nights. Cold air drains to lower ground and warmer air rises upward, where it gets trapped by cooler air above it, creating an temperature inversion layer. I have some local topography maps, and up in town averages around 150 feet elevation. If you look at the second graphic at the below link, imagine the town of Lake Placid up on the hill to the right, and my place down lower on the left (where there are building structures). After more than 20 yearss living here, I empirically know it's much warmer at elevation and near large lakes. The flora is proof of that. My first bad freeze was on January 5, 2001, when I recorded 22 degrees in my front yard (probably 20 degrees farther away from the house on a lower portion of my property). All my bougainvilleas were melted to the ground. Yet up in town they were in full bloom! My big white bird of paradise (a zone 9b plant) was fried. Yet, the big travellers palm (a zone 10a plant) up in town wasn't hurt at all. That's when I first realized the value of elevation on the Florida peninsula. Archbold Biological Station 8 miles south of Lake Placid tied their all-time low temperature of 13 degrees. But again, up in town papayas still had their leaves. A testament to elevation and warm air inversion.

I also talked with an orange grove owner who told me he had groves on high ground and on low ground, and how his citrus on high ground wouldn't be hurt, while the same species on low ground incurred lots of damage. https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/images/1883-temperature-inversion

I've told this story before, but when my wife was still working, one cold morning she pulled out of our driveway, and the car thermometer read 31 degrees. It remained 31 degrees mostly through our neighborhood of Sylvan Shores. But when she started up LaGrow Ave toward US 27, the thermometer started to rise as she ascended the hill. When she got to the top of the hill on US 27, the thermometer read 39 degrees! This was all in a span of about one minute. I took the below photos and videos of tropical palms in and around Lake Placid back in 2016. These palms are either on high ground or near lakeside. But the outlying rural areas get much colder.

 

Inversion definitely makes sense. Appreciate the stories. 

[Walt]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

That's definitely like that all over Florida, Walt.  I lived in the urban part of Lakeland during the 2010 freeze.  It bottomed off at 26F during that freeze for me, but in the outlying areas, some folks recorded temperatures in the mid-teens!

I agree that the urban area of Lakeland is warmer than the outlying areas. I've seen that on temperature maps. I guess it's the heat island effect, plus lake effects. I don't know what the altitude is (varies) in the Lakeland area. I had six nights in the 20s in December of 2010. And three of those nights were below 25 degrees. I recorded my all-time low temperature of 20.7 degrees in my front yard, about 4 feet above the ground where my remote thermometer sensor was suspended in a pillow case from a step ladder. My buddy who lives about 300 feet from the east shore of Lake June recorded 32 degrees that same night, his all-time coldest since he lived there. I actually had even a lower temperature reading farther out, and a few feet lower, on my property. Note the numbers (1 and 2) in the upper right hand corner of my base station thermometer. My coconut palm would have been killed had I not used a heating cable and insulation wraps to keep the trunk and meristem from freezing.

[Eukalyptus]

[row of mountains] Himalayan: Does it look like mediterranean conditions? 

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/106425971101989900166/6503156457627929170

 

[PalmTreeDude]

This is not about Florida, but one of my friends sent me this (knowing that I am a palm addict) and it is a map of where coconuts grow naturally, not sure how accurate it is or where he got it from but here it is. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by PalmTreeDude

[RedRabbit]

Looks like the coconut in LOL finally died. :(

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1902251,-82.4605569,3a,15y,171.3h,88.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4ozyKmydA3cj6qs-C7RUaQ!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Matthew92]

Well I think we can thank the big box stores for spreading the range of coconuts farther north in FL. Just saw these today at the Home Depot near Orlovista.  I also saw these at the Home Depot in Destin FL a few years ago! They sure do look tempting.

I wonder what cultivar they are.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Opal92

[kinzyjr]

@Opal92 Likely some kind of Malayan Dwarf.

[pj_orlando_z9b]

The Orlando I-Drive coconut has recovered and is fruiting. It's a more developed area with lots of concrete but no water is near it. Some of the fruit is developing. Pics from early Dec.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Matt.

Those are Green Malayan Dwarfs, the most commonly grown variety in Florida.

John

[Tim-Sebastian Peninsula]

On 8/3/2016 at 12:16 AM, Dave-Vero said:

Here in Vero Beach, a lot of coconuts died in the cold, sometimes wet, weather of 2010-2011.  Now, the survivors are flourishing.  Huge bumper crop of coconuts this spring.

I'm pursuing Kentiopsis oliviformis as a better alternative.  Mostly good results with Archontophoenix, which admittedly don't look anything like coconuts.  And we have lots of very reliable smaller palms.  Dypsis carlsmithii is a wonderful specimen, even without a trunk.  The Kopsick Arboretum in Tampa, Leu in Orlando, and the Florida Institute of Technology in Melbourne are good places for ideas about what to grow fairly far north.  The small palm collection at Heathcote in Ft. Pierce has a few nice specimens, including a pair of foxtails that seem to be from well before they entered the mass market.  

I just purchased a home with a peninsula that juts out half way into the Sebastian River. The Brazilian Peppers have been cleared, and all that remains are the mangroves along the banks, (which obviously will be left alone!!). I want to plant coconut palms about every 60 feet from the beginning of the peninsula to the end point. I think that would really enhance the look of the River, as this point of land is very noticeable from anywhere in the River’s area. Thanks for the information, and if you have any other suggestions, please let me know. Hopefully next time you are crossing the Sebastian River bridge you will notice the coconut palms and know your knowledge assisted in the process!!

[George Ratzmann]

On 2/7/2017 at 3:40 PM, SubTropicRay said:

Nice map but it's a little misleading.  The Coconut will grow at the northern limit of the blue shaded area on Florida's west coast but as a perennial.  I live on Tampa's Interbay peninsula where many coconuts existed pre-2010.  Some are still around but in extremely nice microclimates.  Some that were wiped out had been there for 20+ years.  Even in the best spot, the next hard freeze could take them out.  I wouldn't waste my time planting coconut palms anywhere in the Tampa Bay area as they have a limited lifespan regardless of the size the tree attains or the cultivar.  If you don't mind watching it grow for decades only to have one night give you a big chainsaw project, go for it.  For me, there are too many nice, a little less marginal species to grow than this one.  This is one I enjoy in other gardens. 

Coconuts will also grow along the banks of the caloosahatchee river.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

It seems long term is also very variable and subjective considering what defines long term.  Do we mean areas like Clearwater and Largo where coconuts will grow for 30-40 years but often die between big freezes?  While many in those areas survived the 2011 freeze more died in the 2018 freeze and virtually none survived the big 89.   As far south as pine island and ole Fort Myers many coconuts were killed in 89.