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Keith in SoJax
7 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Keith,

That's mild by Texas standards.  My average high and low in Jan. is 65F and 50F, but I am in a solidly Zone 10A Climate.  So far for the four winters I have lived here, the lowest my yard has gotten down to is 33.6F, 3 times as I recall.  My yard has had 10 frosts over that period, with about half of those moderate to heavy frosts, but the frosts don't affect my coconut palms nearly as bad as prolonged chilly weather, especially if it is accompanied by damp conditions, which we have sometimes in the winter here.  Your place is almost as mild as the Rio Grande Valley, but they rarely drop below the mid 30'sF, though the all time record low in Brownsville is 12F.  Coconut palms do quite well there between really bad Arctic freezes (which happen about once every 30 to 40 years), if they are adequately watered in the hot dry summers.  Royals also do really well there (and here too) if they are adequately watered.

If I understood you correctly, the temps drop down to the high 20'sF a few times each winter there?  If it weren't for that, then you would be in a solid 10A Climate too.

Be careful with the storm!  I just heard that it could come really close to Jacksonville.

John

Hello John!  I moved to central FL back in 2012.  I sold the house there in April after renting all that time.  I may have saved myself quite a bit of angst!  I didnt change my forum name fir consistency, but now it confusing for other reasons.  

Yes, those danged 20's we experience most winters define us as zone 9b.  And this property is a frost hole (by which i mean we are just low enough for the cold air to pool here at sunrise).  Often an hour before sunrise, no frost, but just as the sun come up, cold air rushes in and causes fog.  In winter, it can be frost, the rest of the year its dew.  1000' away, & 10' higher, doesnt happen.  But it could be much worse.  As our plants have grown, the phenomenon seems to occur a but less...but that might be becase of the warm winters!  

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Walt
11 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

Your yard looks great!  I hope my Green Malayan will survive and start producing like yours in the next couple of years.  It is getting a really nice full crown on it, and it is recovering from the penciling it had when I bought.  Regarding this winter, is the prediction for the whole Gulf Coast or just your side of the Gulf.  I have heard a few rumors here that this winter may be a bad one, but I hope not.  Last winter was supposed to be a cool to somewhat chilly one here, and it ended up being the mildest winter I have ever experienced in Texas, and I am 46 years old. 

I think you are right about severely cold damaged young palms.  I try to harden off my more cold sensitive palms for a winter or two by exposing them to some nights in the 30'sF when they are still young and in pots before planting them.  This seems to have worked for my royals, Christmas palms, and to a certain extent with some of my coconuts that I planted this year.  I hope you are spared the storm.  Be careful over there!

John

P.S.  I still think the longer shape of the small nut is really interesting, as if it is from a different variety.  It is interesting that the same tree will produce different shaped nuts, since I don't think they go from being elongated to round as they get bigger.   The other 3 nuts have a distinctly round shape.

John, I don't know what the overall prediction is this winter for the entire US. Since I'm located in the heart of citrus country the article mostly pertained to central Florida. The article didn't give a basis for their prediction, so I don't know what they based their prediction on.

I first experienced how palms (at least zone 10 and above) never grow normal again after a very bad freeze, one where it is totally defoliated and the meristem is damaged and gets a bacterial infection. But I will qualify that by saying such palms were still juvenile and without a developed trunk. Perhaps the same species palm with at least one foot of wood trunk might not be affected the same way.

I had several Ravenea rivularis (majesty) palms get totally defoliated about 15 years ago. They never recovered normally. They grew, but only about 1/4th the normal rate (frond production and speed). After a couple of years they died. Same with a nice golden Malayan coconut (two of them). There is a neighbor down the street with two majesty palms planted in his front yard. They were both whacked four years ago and have never really grown since then. They look to be the same size they were four years ago.

Well, from all the University of Florida literature I've read, a cold sensitive palm fares the best when it is gradually exposed to lower and lower nighttime temperatures. They can to a limited degree acclimate to the change. It's the abrupt downward swing in temperature that really hurts them. Like being used to 80 degree temperatures (wintertime above normal high), then an advective cold front comes in and plunges the temps down into the low 30s, high 20s.. But if it took a week or so (temperature transaction period) where the daytime highs were lower, as well as the nighttime lows lower, the palms aren't as cold shocked. I've read that the palms can get chill damage, not necessarily sub freezing cold damage, by lows in the 40s after a period where the palms were enjoying temps in the 80s for days.

Walt

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Walt
6 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Walt

perhaps I need to read all thread but I being lazy and ask the question ,

can we grow coconut outside if we never get below 30 F ( -1.1C) , if yes I am not sure why we don't have coconut in Sydney coastal or even here , I am not sure we have many 30f for winters or perhaps there are other variables I'm missing? Or perhaps types of coconut is also important ?

i have a coco seedling but don't dare to keep it outside even now the coldest night are not below 48 F!

After doing a cursory check of Sydney's wintertime daytime highs (17C in June and July, and 18C in August), I would have to assume Sydney hasn't enough wintertime heat to support the viability of coconut palms. This is the problem with zone 10b/11 locations in southern California (lack of daytime heat even though nighttime lows are relatively high). But in southern California, the daily high temperatures are exacerbated due to the greater probability of wet soils, as winter is their wet season. I see Sydney is drier by comparison. Tropical palms abhor cold, wet soil.

So, again, I think your wintertime daily highs are too low. While I can get colder several days each winter than you, my January (my coldest winter month) average high is 74 degrees F (23.1C). Also, because Sydney is at a higher latitude than me, the sun's rays are more oblique/less direct for you during your winter months; hence, your soil temperatures are also colder from less direct sun short wave radiation. Cold soil probably is the biggest factor why you don't see coconut palms in your area.

But the above being said, if I lived in Sydney and wanted to try and grow a coconut palm, I would first grow it as large as possible in a container. Then I would plant it on a north facing (since you are in the southern hemisphere) brick/block (heat absorbing wall) and where the soil could absorb as much wintertime heat from the sun's rays. The walls would also absorb heat so as to re release it at night to help keep the pal warmer. If I was a real fanatic I might even install some heating coils in the soil and cover the soil at night with a tarp to help hold in the heat.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
12 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Hello John!  I moved to central FL back in 2012.  I sold the house there in April after renting all that time.  I may have saved myself quite a bit of angst!  I didnt change my forum name fir consistency, but now it confusing for other reasons.  

Yes, those danged 20's we experience most winters define us as zone 9b.  And this property is a frost hole (by which i mean we are just low enough for the cold air to pool here at sunrise).  Often an hour before sunrise, no frost, but just as the sun come up, cold air rushes in and causes fog.  In winter, it can be frost, the rest of the year its dew.  1000' away, & 10' higher, doesnt happen.  But it could be much worse.  As our plants have grown, the phenomenon seems to occur a but less...but that might be becase of the warm winters!  

Hey Keith,

I think the climate in Central Florida, even coastal central Florida is as variable as here, but with the added advantage there of the much higher annual average rainfall and the inland lakes and springs that help moderate winter cold fronts.  The higher rainfall means higher humidity (which we also have here about 80% of the time) and higher humidity means higher dew points and thus less chance of really cold over night lows.  The inland lakes and springs I think really have a moderating effect on winter chill over there, which we don't have here in our semi arid climate. 

What is weird, is that my place is only .6 of a mile west of the Laguna Madre, and I live on a small peninsula with a small bay (Oso Bay) to my west and the deeper and much larger Corpus Christi Bay about 3 miles to my north, yet my yard is a cold pocket.  I even live on a slight ridge about 12ft. to 13ft. above sea level, and yet my yard is a cold pocket.  On chilly winter nights, my yard can already be down in the low to mid 40'sF by about 7:00 or 8:00 in the evening, while the surrounding area can still be about 48F to 50F!  Go figure.  After Arctic fronts blow through in the winter, my yard temps drop rapidly just after sunset, but by early morning the temps in my yard have stabilized, and my yard is relatively mild compared to more inland areas.  I have seen my yard be about 3F to 5F or more colder than the airport (which is about  20 miles inland) early in the evening, but by daybreak, my yard is usually 3F to 5F warmer than the airport's overnight low.  Being so close to the water and being on a slight ridge, I would think that throughout the night my yard should be significantly warmer than the airport.  The Naval Air Station, which is just about 2.5 miles north of me at the northern part of this small peninsula can be 7F to 10F warmer than the airport, especially early in the winter, and is usually 3F or 4F warmer than my place.

John

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GottmitAlex
On 10/2/2016, 6:37:29, Keith in SoJax said:

Here's our best looking zone 9 coconut. It was planted as an annual in 2014 and has never been protected.  I'm cheating though, the last 2 winters have been exceptionally warm and I don't think it's actually been below 30f.  The other 2 look rather crappy.

 

IMG_0320.JPG

That picture Keith, gives me a tad bit of hope for my seedlings.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
8 hours ago, Walt said:

John, I don't know what the overall prediction is this winter for the entire US. Since I'm located in the heart of citrus country the article mostly pertained to central Florida. The article didn't give a basis for their prediction, so I don't know what they based their prediction on.

I first experienced how palms (at least zone 10 and above) never grow normal again after a very bad freeze, one where it is totally defoliated and the meristem is damaged and gets a bacterial infection. But I will qualify that by saying such palms were still juvenile and without a developed trunk. Perhaps the same species palm with at least one foot of wood trunk might not be affected the same way.

I had several Ravenea rivularis (majesty) palms get totally defoliated about 15 years ago. They never recovered normally. They grew, but only about 1/4th the normal rate (frond production and speed). After a couple of years they died. Same with a nice golden Malayan coconut (two of them). There is a neighbor down the street with two majesty palms planted in his front yard. They were both whacked four years ago and have never really grown since then. They look to be the same size they were four years ago.

Well, from all the University of Florida literature I've read, a cold sensitive palm fares the best when it is gradually exposed to lower and lower nighttime temperatures. They can to a limited degree acclimate to the change. It's the abrupt downward swing in temperature that really hurts them. Like being used to 80 degree temperatures (wintertime above normal high), then an advective cold front comes in and plunges the temps down into the low 30s, high 20s.. But if it took a week or so (temperature transaction period) where the daytime highs were lower, as well as the nighttime lows lower, the palms aren't as cold shocked. I've read that the palms can get chill damage, not necessarily sub freezing cold damage, by lows in the 40s after a period where the palms were enjoying temps in the 80s for days.

Walt

Hey Walt,

I hope this winter will be either mild or normal, but I am afraid it may be a cool one.  As long as it is not a chilly one like two back to back winters a couple of years ago.  Those two back to back chilly winters killed all my in ground coconut palms eventually, even though my place only got down to 33.6F for the coldest temp.  It was just the total number of nights in the 30'sF and low 40'sF and highs only in the mid 40'sF to upper 50'sF over those winters, when I should have had lows from about 50F to 55F and highs of about 65F to 70F over that time period that did them in along with the damp conditions we experienced with the chilly temps.  I would rather have had a light freeze or two over those two winters down to about 31F or 32F than to have the extended chilly damp weather we had.  I think my coconut palms, even my really young ones could have recovered from a couple of light freezes than they could have handled the extended chilly damp weather.  Most frosts over here don't seem to adversely affect our coconut palms, as my yard normally gets about 3 frosts each winter, and my coconut palms, even my young ones usually come through them with only the slightest spotting at the tips of the leaves.

I think you are right about the young palms and hard freezes.  Older, established palms can be defoliated and still recover and grow normally again.  I have seen it here with coconut palms in the Valley, and royal palms.  The 2011 freeze here virtually defoliated a lot of the coconut palms in the Valley as well as the royal palms here in Corpus Christi, but many of both types of palms have since recovered and look good now.

I am convinced now that the reason I lost my last big Green Malayan that I had with about 15" of trunk was because I did not adequately water and fertilize it.  I errored on the side of caution and only watered my in ground coconut palms about once every 5 or 6 weeks over those two chilly back to back winters.  I think that even though we were having unusually chilly winters, I still should have watered them at least once every 3 weeks.  This winter, I plan on watering my coconut palms about once every 2 to 3 weeks.  In the peak of the summer, I was watering them once or twice a week.  That big Green Malayan I used to have made it through the first chilly winter and started growing again by mid to late spring (it was never defoliated the first chilly winter), and made it through most of the second chilly winter, but by mid Feb. was looking pretty bad.  By late Mar. and April, I thought it was dead, but in May, it tried to put out a small deformed and very winter damaged new leaf, but because I hadn't adequately watered it throughout the winter, and because I hadn't adequately fertilized it, it quickly died.  I used to only fertilize my palms twice a year, but I have decided to start fertilizing my coconut palms 4 times per year, including in early Dec., and all my other palms, 3 times per year.  Hopefully by doing this, I will be able to strengthen my coconut palms enough to successfully make it through our occasionally chilly winters here.

I lost a Ravenea rivularis here too, and again, I think it was from lack of water rather than cold temps.  There are some really nice 20ft. tall ones a several miles inland from my place that probably experience a little more overnight chill in the winter than my place.  My soil is about 98% sand in the backyard, and about 70% sand in the front yard, so I think I should start watering my palms more, if I can afford the water bill.  I had a 6ft. tall Golden Malayan that didn't even make it through Feb. of a fairly normal winter here, and I have a 5.5ft. tall Yellow Malayan that I sprouted from a beach coconut that I planted in Jan. of this year because we had an extremely mild winter ( I normally wouldn't plant any cold sensitive tropicals until about Mar., but since our winter was extremely mild, I decided to plant 3 coconut palms the middle of Jan.)  Ten days after I planted it (it was only about 2.5ft. tall) they got hit by a light to moderate frost, and it only suffered the slightest amount of tiny spotting on the outer edge of its leaves.  Even though it was a VERY mild winter, we still had that one frost, but it didn't even seem to phase the 3 coconut palms I planted in Jan.  That Yellow Malayan, which I always thought was the least cold hardy of the 3 Malayans, is now 5.5ft. tall and about to catch up with my Maypan that I also planted in Jan.!  Coconut palms over here seem to adapt pretty well to our occasional frosts that we usually have each winter, and they adapt to our cool winters, but they can't seem to adapt very well to the extended chilly weather, especially when it is accompanied by damp conditions.  I think only an Indian Tall from north central India or a pure Mexican Tall maybe from Matamoros, Mexico could survive those conditions.

Your last paragraph about cold sensitive palms faring better when they are gradually exposed to lower and lower night time temps is why I try to expose all my cold sensitive palms when they are young and still in pots to at least 2 or 3 nights in the mid to upper 30'sF and numerous nights in the 40'sF before planting them the following spring.  I have two royals, a Cuban, and a Florida royal that were both juveniles when I planted them a few years ago, and they have made it through some moderate to heavy frosts with flying colors!  The same is true for my Arch. alexandrae King Palm.

John

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Walt
8 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

I hope this winter will be either mild or normal, but I am afraid it may be a cool one.  As long as it is not a chilly one like two back to back winters a couple of years ago.  Those two back to back chilly winters killed all my in ground coconut palms eventually, even though my place only got down to 33.6F for the coldest temp.  It was just the total number of nights in the 30'sF and low 40'sF and highs only in the mid 40'sF to upper 50'sF over those winters, when I should have had lows from about 50F to 55F and highs of about 65F to 70F over that time period that did them in along with the damp conditions we experienced with the chilly temps.  I would rather have had a light freeze or two over those two winters down to about 31F or 32F than to have the extended chilly damp weather we had.  I think my coconut palms, even my really young ones could have recovered from a couple of light freezes than they could have handled the extended chilly damp weather.  Most frosts over here don't seem to adversely affect our coconut palms, as my yard normally gets about 3 frosts each winter, and my coconut palms, even my young ones usually come through them with only the slightest spotting at the tips of the leaves.

I think you are right about the young palms and hard freezes.  Older, established palms can be defoliated and still recover and grow normally again.  I have seen it here with coconut palms in the Valley, and royal palms.  The 2011 freeze here virtually defoliated a lot of the coconut palms in the Valley as well as the royal palms here in Corpus Christi, but many of both types of palms have since recovered and look good now.

I am convinced now that the reason I lost my last big Green Malayan that I had with about 15" of trunk was because I did not adequately water and fertilize it.  I errored on the side of caution and only watered my in ground coconut palms about once every 5 or 6 weeks over those two chilly back to back winters.  I think that even though we were having unusually chilly winters, I still should have watered them at least once every 3 weeks.  This winter, I plan on watering my coconut palms about once every 2 to 3 weeks.  In the peak of the summer, I was watering them once or twice a week.  That big Green Malayan I used to have made it through the first chilly winter and started growing again by mid to late spring (it was never defoliated the first chilly winter), and made it through most of the second chilly winter, but by mid Feb. was looking pretty bad.  By late Mar. and April, I thought it was dead, but in May, it tried to put out a small deformed and very winter damaged new leaf, but because I hadn't adequately watered it throughout the winter, and because I hadn't adequately fertilized it, it quickly died.  I used to only fertilize my palms twice a year, but I have decided to start fertilizing my coconut palms 4 times per year, including in early Dec., and all my other palms, 3 times per year.  Hopefully by doing this, I will be able to strengthen my coconut palms enough to successfully make it through our occasionally chilly winters here.

I lost a Ravenea rivularis here too, and again, I think it was from lack of water rather than cold temps.  There are some really nice 20ft. tall ones a several miles inland from my place that probably experience a little more overnight chill in the winter than my place.  My soil is about 98% sand in the backyard, and about 70% sand in the front yard, so I think I should start watering my palms more, if I can afford the water bill.  I had a 6ft. tall Golden Malayan that didn't even make it through Feb. of a fairly normal winter here, and I have a 5.5ft. tall Yellow Malayan that I sprouted from a beach coconut that I planted in Jan. of this year because we had an extremely mild winter ( I normally wouldn't plant any cold sensitive tropicals until about Mar., but since our winter was extremely mild, I decided to plant 3 coconut palms the middle of Jan.)  Ten days after I planted it (it was only about 2.5ft. tall) they got hit by a light to moderate frost, and it only suffered the slightest amount of tiny spotting on the outer edge of its leaves.  Even though it was a VERY mild winter, we still had that one frost, but it didn't even seem to phase the 3 coconut palms I planted in Jan.  That Yellow Malayan, which I always thought was the least cold hardy of the 3 Malayans, is now 5.5ft. tall and about to catch up with my Maypan that I also planted in Jan.!  Coconut palms over here seem to adapt pretty well to our occasional frosts that we usually have each winter, and they adapt to our cool winters, but they can't seem to adapt very well to the extended chilly weather, especially when it is accompanied by damp conditions.  I think only an Indian Tall from north central India or a pure Mexican Tall maybe from Matamoros, Mexico could survive those conditions.

Your last paragraph about cold sensitive palms faring better when they are gradually exposed to lower and lower night time temps is why I try to expose all my cold sensitive palms when they are young and still in pots to at least 2 or 3 nights in the mid to upper 30'sF and numerous nights in the 40'sF before planting them the following spring.  I have two royals, a Cuban, and a Florida royal that were both juveniles when I planted them a few years ago, and they have made it through some moderate to heavy frosts with flying colors!  The same is true for my Arch. alexandrae King Palm.

John

John,

Tomorrow I should start to feel the effects of Hurricane Matthew, then get hit with the brunt of it tomorrow night. I'm not going to get hit as hard as the east coast of Florida, but they are predicting tropical storm force wind. I expect lots of tree limb damage and some palm frond breakage. Also, my traveler's palms will probably get lots of broken fronds. I took the below video yesterday and used my new video editing program to splice the videos and still photos together, then uploaded it to YouTube this evening. You might not have the audio (like you told me) but at least you can see the video and some subtitles.

I was planning starting this week to make a YouTube video showcasing the many coconut palms in my area, but with the hurricane, that may really screw me up now. Hopefully, things won't be too bad.

Walt

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Mohsen
20 hours ago, Walt said:

After doing a cursory check of Sydney's wintertime daytime highs (17C in June and July, and 18C in August), I would have to assume Sydney hasn't enough wintertime heat to support the viability of coconut palms. This is the problem with zone 10b/11 locations in southern California (lack of daytime heat even though nighttime lows are relatively high). But in southern California, the daily high temperatures are exacerbated due to the greater probability of wet soils, as winter is their wet season. I see Sydney is drier by comparison. Tropical palms abhor cold, wet soil.

So, again, I think your wintertime daily highs are too low. While I can get colder several days each winter than you, my January (my coldest winter month) average high is 74 degrees F (23.1C). Also, because Sydney is at a higher latitude than me, the sun's rays are more oblique/less direct for you during your winter months; hence, your soil temperatures are also colder from less direct sun short wave radiation. Cold soil probably is the biggest factor why you don't see coconut palms in your area.

But the above being said, if I lived in Sydney and wanted to try and grow a coconut palm, I would first grow it as large as possible in a container. Then I would plant it on a north facing (since you are in the southern hemisphere) brick/block (heat absorbing wall) and where the soil could absorb as much wintertime heat from the sun's rays. The walls would also absorb heat so as to re release it at night to help keep the pal warmer. If I was a real fanatic I might even install some heating coils in the soil and cover the soil at night with a tarp to help hold in the heat.

Thanks Walt for the useful and logical explanation

- keeping the seedling in pot, when should I bring it inside? can I cover it in outside and also heat coil the pot in winter? the problem is if I keep it inside in winter then there wont be much sun...

- Do we have a more cold hardy variation? the one I had ( at the moment with Steve) came from Mare New Caledonia , but not sure the type:

 

IMG_3431.JPG

PA030003.thumb.JPG.1c7e3bb76aaa85481e26e0a715077ad4.JPG

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Walt
6 minutes ago, Mohsen said:

Thanks Walt for the useful and logical explanation

- keeping the seedling in pot, when should I bring it inside? can I cover it in outside and also heat coil the pot in winter? the problem is if I keep it inside in winter then there wont be much sun...

- Do we have a more cold hardy variation? the one I had ( at the moment with Steve) came from Mare New Caledonia , but not sure the type:

 

IMG_3431.JPG

PA030003.thumb.JPG.1c7e3bb76aaa85481e26e0a715077ad4.JPG

I don't have much experience at all with potted coconut palms, so I can't really advise you. But, IMO, the key factor is to give your nice developing coconut as much heat as possible and as much natural light as possible. I read (somewhere) that the metabolic growth rate of a coconut palm increases by a factor of 10 when going from the minimal temperature it metabolizes to a temperature of 80F+ degrees(26.4+C), so you will have to use your best judgment as to where to place your palm during the winter months. If inside, I would put it in a north facing window for maximum sunlight. As long as you keep the palm exposed to indoor winter temperatures your palm should do fine during the winter. It will certainly slow down in growth (as compared to in the summer months), but it should still grow. You will be able to discern this by marking petioles and noting the movement of your marks.

But, during the summer months I would expose your palm to all the sun and heat it can get and keep the roots well moist so as to achieve maximum growth. I would also step it up in pot size as needed. Further, make sure you give it adequate fertilizer. Below are some links that may be of help to you:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg043

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg318

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep262

BTW, from all that I've read there's no more than a very marginal difference in cold hardiness in coconut palm varieties. By that I mean, one variety isn't going to be 5 degrees more cold hardy than another. I may be wrong, but that's what I've read. I think the Jamaican tall is supposed to be the most cold hardy, I don't know for sure. IMO, my coconut palm certainly hasn't any notable cold/frost hardy resistance.

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Mohsen
8 hours ago, Walt said:

I don't have much experience at all with potted coconut palms, so I can't really advise you. But, IMO, the key factor is to give your nice developing coconut as much heat as possible and as much natural light as possible. I read (somewhere) that the metabolic growth rate of a coconut palm increases by a factor of 10 when going from the minimal temperature it metabolizes to a temperature of 80F+ degrees(26.4+C), so you will have to use your best judgment as to where to place your palm during the winter months. If inside, I would put it in a north facing window for maximum sunlight. As long as you keep the palm exposed to indoor winter temperatures your palm should do fine during the winter. It will certainly slow down in growth (as compared to in the summer months), but it should still grow. You will be able to discern this by marking petioles and noting the movement of your marks.

But, during the summer months I would expose your palm to all the sun and heat it can get and keep the roots well moist so as to achieve maximum growth. I would also step it up in pot size as needed. Further, make sure you give it adequate fertilizer. Below are some links that may be of help to you:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg043

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg318

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep262

BTW, from all that I've read there's no more than a very marginal difference in cold hardiness in coconut palm varieties. By that I mean, one variety isn't going to be 5 degrees more cold hardy than another. I may be wrong, but that's what I've read. I think the Jamaican tall is supposed to be the most cold hardy, I don't know for sure. IMO, my coconut palm certainly hasn't any notable cold/frost hardy resistance.

Thanks Walt

very informative indeed ...

I will keep you posted about mine :)

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GottmitAlex
On 10/6/2016, 7:29:14, Walt said:

BTW, from all that I've read there's no more than a very marginal difference in cold hardiness in coconut palm varieties. By that I mean, one variety isn't going to be 5 degrees more cold hardy than another. I may be wrong, but that's what I've read. I think the Jamaican tall is supposed to be the most cold hardy, I don't know for sure. IMO, my coconut palm certainly hasn't any notable cold/frost hardy resistance.

I agree with your above statement Walt (emphasis mine). Well, I agree with pretty much everything you have said regarding cocos nucifera based on your experience.

Thank you

 

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Walt
1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

I agree with your above statement Walt (emphasis mine). Well, I agree with pretty much everything you have said regarding cocos nucifera based on your experience.

Thank you

 

Most of what I said is just my opinion based on what I've read. I don't claim any profound expertise on the subject. All I can attest to is that I know how to keep a coconut alive in my 9b zone. I have the experience of 13 winters to prove it. And some of those winter would have killed my coconut had I not provided it protection.

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kinzyjr

I figure it this way: My record low here is 20F.  If I want to grow a coconut, at some point, I'll end up having to protect it from cold.  So don't BS yourself.  If you know that it can get cold enough in your zone 9b to kill the plant, have a plan for protecting it in place. 

For me, I planted mine very close to the east side of the house, and it is surrounded by fence and screen on 3 sides to block the wind.  It is planted under an overhang with a downspout to provide water.  When temperatures call for protection, I tie all the fronds up to protect the spear, wrap it with beach towels and blankets, and then tie it to a steel ring embedded in the wall to keep the extra weight from pulling the palm forward.  It stays wrapped until at least morning when I leave.  If the temperature is on the rebound, I'll unwrap it.  If not, it stays wrapped until I come home.

Summarized, if you are in 9b, short of a genetic miracle plant, you'll end up having to take some measures to protect your plant from cold weather or risk losing it.

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jayb
On 8/20/2016, 9:14:30, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

As far as coconut palms surviving in a 9B Climate, I would say that it is not only possible, but even likely for some of the more cold hardy varieties like the Indian Tall and Mexican Tall, that they can make it in milder 9B climates that have enough daytime heat in the winter to make up for the occasional cold 9B overnight low.  By milder 9B climates, I mean those that typically don't get below 28F or 29F on their coldest morning in the winter, but that have average daytime highs around 70F + and average nighttime lows around 47F to 50F during the coldest month.

Phoenix metro area sounds like that especially in the city. I only wonder if the winter rain could be a problem like I hear in California. 

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QWERTY

I live on the east side of Tampa Bay, which I believe puts me in 9b.  There are plenty of coconut palms in my part of town near the bay and canals.  Two are huge and while I'm not good at estimating the age of palm trees, the homes in that area would have been built in the '60s.  If those trees are in fact that old then they must have made it through sub freezing temps at some point in their existence.

Edited by QWERTY
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Mr. Coconut Palm
On 1/4/2017, 7:46:25, jayb said:

Phoenix metro area sounds like that especially in the city. I only wonder if the winter rain could be a problem like I hear in California. 

Yeah, chilly winter rain is not good for coconut palms, but the hardier varieties like the Indian Tall from north central India, and the Mexican Tall from the Gulf coast of Mexico just south of Matamoros, as well as the Green Variety of Hawaiian Tall, should be able to handle some chilly damp weather better than other varieties, as there are some pretty nice Mexican Talls in the Rio Grande Valley that are exposed to such conditions at least once or twice most winters.

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RedRabbit
On 1/7/2017, 9:43:02, QWERTY said:

I live on the east side of Tampa Bay, which I believe puts me in 9b.  There are plenty of coconut palms in my part of town near the bay and canals.  Two are huge and while I'm not good at estimating the age of palm trees, the homes in that area would have been built in the '60s.  If those trees are in fact that old then they must have made it through sub freezing temps at some point in their existence.

Apollo Beach stays pretty warm. I'd put it at 10a, comparable to South Tampa. 

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wrigjef
On January 4, 2017 at 6:46:25 PM, jayb said:

Phoenix metro area sounds like that especially in the city. I only wonder if the winter rain could be a problem like I hear in California. 

JayB,

The fact that Phoenix has a year round average humidity of 15% separates us from coastal California. When it rains in Phoenix we dry out very quickly afterwards. 

I have a 5 year old Coconut in the ground at my house in Scottsdale. I grew it in a pot for 4 years then planted it in the ground a year ago Feb 27th.  I built a greenhouse out of PVC pipe and shower curtains. I used a halogen light for cool nights and it's doing great.  I will take down the greenhouse in about 2 weeks.  

image.jpeg

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Gonzer

The Boy in the Bubble.

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PalmTreeDude
On 2/22/2017, 5:08:45, wrigjef said:

JayB,

The fact that Phoenix has a year round average humidity of 15% separates us from coastal California. When it rains in Phoenix we dry out very quickly afterwards. 

I have a 5 year old Coconut in the ground at my house in Scottsdale. I grew it in a pot for 4 years then planted it in the ground a year ago Feb 27th.  I built a greenhouse out of PVC pipe and shower curtains. I used a halogen light for cool nights and it's doing great.  I will take down the greenhouse in about 2 weeks.  

image.jpeg

Neat!

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PalmTreeDude

@Walt Any updated pictures of your coconut palm? Has it put on some good growth this summer?

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wrigjef

It’s doing real well, very mild winter so far in Arizona. Tough to see up close I will try to get a better pic. The greenhouse makes it hard to take a good pick

1AA2F70A-3410-4570-BBE7-C02B50D5C002.jpeg

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GottmitAlex

It's doing splendidly. :greenthumb::greenthumb:

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jayb

Unfortunately my palm fried when the angle of the sun changed for fall. Any suggestions for obtaining a new coco palm variety (if any) that has a decent track record for living in a pot?

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Tracy S

Jay,

That's a bummer. You get it through the cold only to have it get sun burned. No chance it will recover?

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Howeadypsis

9b, thats my zone! The frost just killed a young  date palm I had in the greenhouse so I cant see a coconut surviving.

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jayb

Arizona sun fried it good 

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wrigjef
On 10/6/2017, 9:53:18, PalmTreeDude said:

@Walt Any updated pictures of your coconut palm? Has it put on some good growth this summer?

JB, 

  In general, coconut palms don’t do well in pots. They don’t do well inside either.  They can take the direct Arizona sun if acclimated properly.  My palm went thru  three 120 degree days plus over a week of 115 plus temps and did just fine.  I bought mine on eBay from a lady in Puerto Rico 6 years ago. 

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