Queen Palm Help!

[Mikozz]

I'm new to Palm Talk.  I seem to be having a problem with a couple of Queen Palms which are planted by my pool.  They're about 9  years old.  Pics are below.

The trunk of Tree #1 has gotten noticeably thinner over the years.  I'm not a physics expert, but it seems to me that at some point the weight it's supporting will eventually cause it to collapse.  The bottom fronds are also yellowing.  I read something in another post about identifying the signs of over-watering, and that could be at least part of the problem since the landscape around the pool is on a sprinkler system and each zone gets 20 mins of water a day, 7 days a week.  I've felt around on the trunk and there are areas which seem to be a bit spongy, so I've stopped watering for the last week or 2 (we've been getting plenty of rain down here in Houston lately so no worries about my other plants).  I might try to water only every other day & see how my palms & other plants respond.

Tree #2 isn't as bad off as #1, but the bottom part of the trunk looks to be in pretty bad shape.  Yes, I know the roots are showing a bit on this one & I need to add some more dirt or mulch to cover them up.   The trunk of this one isn't spongy to the touch like #1.  The bottom fronds on this one are a little off-color, but not yellow like on Tree #1.  This tree also generates plenty of seed balls (I assume that's a sign of health, but maybe not).

Any ideas?   I don't feed these trees, and I've read in other posts that they need supplemental feeding including some special trace elements so I plan to try that as well.

The first pic below is Tree #2, the last 3 pics are Tree #1.

Thanks!
Mikozz

[Brad Mondel]

The damage to the trunks is due to your sprinkler system and is irreversible. 

[Mikozz]

Thanks for your reply.  Would it do any good to redirect the sprinklers away from the trees, or would I be best off just replacing the trees ASAP?  Just not sure if the narrow trunk can support the ever-increasing weight. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Queen palms are native to areas that are swampy all or parts of the year. You simply cannot over water them. All of the ones on my property (nine mature ones between 15 and 25 year old) have been subjected to years of spray irrigation directly on their trunks and there's no damage whatsoever. What I see on the lower trunk areas of your palms is consistent with freeze damage. Palms don't repair their trunks. Your queen will likely be alright and it's more likely that you're seeing thickening of the upper trunk areas that makes the lower appear to be getting smaller. The yellowing of the lower fronds is normal. They've reached the end of their lifespan and are dying and will need to be trimmed off soon.

[Pedro 65]

Its asking to be "cut down",as its the overused queen palm, replace it whatever looks good, I looked up your location and 53" of rainfall per year and NO snow , you have plenty of choices..

Pete  

[Brad Mondel]

Well, the real reason hasn't been determined. So opinions vary. 

Trunk erosion:

It is not uncommon to find old specimens of palms of various species with eroded trunks (Fig. 8). The cause of this erosion has never been determined, but no disease pathogens have been isolated from tissue that is in the process of falling off. This erosion of the softer cortical tissue from the outside of the trunk is considered normal for older specimens of some species. In most cases the central cylinder, which contains fibers and vascular tissue, remains intact due to the high concentration of sclerified fibers. Loss of sections of palm trunk cortex does not seem to negatively impact palm structural strength or the uptake of water and nutrients, although it certainly can be unsightly.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/m/#publication?id=ep344

 

[JMBreland]

The erosion is possibly due to freeze damage, like Jim proposed. Possibly ice damage from the sprinklers wetting the trunks during a freeze, causing the water inside the cracks in the outer sheath to expand. Also, constriction damage is a possibility if the queens were transplanted while being large. This does not affect the health of your queens and they look quite healthy and happy. But I do suggest that you decrease your watering frequency. Excessive watering causes more problems than insufficient watering. You live in an area with adequate rainfall so just water as needed when you get droughts. Slowly acclimate your garden and lawn to a drier regime and they will adapt. You may want to invest in a rain sensor. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Why do you water 7 days per week? Twenty minutes per day isn't long enough for deep watering. Better to water 2-3x for an hour and not at high noon when the sun evaporates your efforts. I'm not sure about TX but in FL queens are type II invasives. You can find much nicer & hardier palms, i.e., mule palms. Also, queens are prone to a fatal wilt invading TX & FL. I lost all my 15+ queens to it.

[Walt]

I would surmise that if a palm's trunk is watered (by irrigation spray) everyday and is never allowed to dry out, then trunk damage will occur. I've seen this with a Phoenix sylvestris palm. But the damage was mostly on the north side of the trunk, where it didn't get direct sun to dry it out. Also, if irrigation is used during freezing conditions, then turned off while the ambient air around the trunk is still below freezing, the trunk can get freeze damaged -- especially down low to the ground where the air is the coldest.

I've damaged adonidia and alexandrae palm trunks at their bases from using irrigation (improperly) during radiational freezes.

As far as the structural integrity of your queen palms trunks, I personally think they are okay since the damage is mostly superficial. The palm still probably has 90% of its cross sectional diameter. I've seen palms with much less cross sectional diameter and they hold up fine. Of  course, under hurricane force winds all bets would be off.

[Collectorpalms]

HI, This is at least the third exact thread on this issue from southeast Texans. This is result of Freeze damage from 2010-2011. The tissue on some of tree trunk froze. It has taken it this long for the wood to basically rot. I would not do anything, it cant be fixed but there is no reason to cut it down. It will not spread, and is not likely to fall or break. All the growth since the hard freezes are fine.

Houston gets enough rain that I would not even bother watering it except in droughts. I would not overly fertilize with Nitrogen as it would produce a lot of growth and height. I would mainly give balanced micronutrients.

I would also consider giving more soil and mulch to the base, It will produce more roots and make the tree stronger.

Next time the Houston gets a similar freeze as Jan 2010 and Feb 2011 wrap the trunk, it will make a difference. Consider a mule palm as well, its more cold hard and just as nice.

 

Edited June 27, 2016 by Collectorpalms

[Mikozz]

Wow, thanks for all the info guys!  The comments about freezing are well taken, as we lost a couple of smaller Queens during the 2010-2011 freeze.  Glad to hear the tree should be ok.  I'll add nutrients, reduce my watering schedule & wrap my trunks the next time it freezes (Hell has had a better chance of that occurring in the last few years!).

I have some extra space so I'll also look into the mule palms.

Thanks again!

[Walt]

It was hard radiational freezes (no wind) of December of 2010 that one of my adonidia palms and one A. alexadrae palms incurred freeze damage to the lower trunk. I was using irrigation to spread 75 degree F well water on the ground all around my palms so that rising heat would raise the air temperature a few degrees. But too much water splashed and penetrated both palm's trunk. I didn't continue to irrigate until the sun was well up and the air temperature was once again above 32 degrees. Today both palm's lower trunks are damaged, but the rest of the palm is otherwise normal.

 

[Secbnc]

Hello,

I live in near Carolina Beach NC. Near Wilmington NC.

 

I have several palm trees (I believe the 1 in question is a Sable) that have been thriving for 20 years.

All of the sudden, seems like just cropped up, my tree near my pool lost about 1.5-2 foot of bark. Below and above the area look fine. Tree is producing new frones looks otherwise healthy.

First can I save this beloved tree

Second, what is wrong and why.

Trying to include pic from phone. Can't see how to do that except from url

Any all help would be greatly appreciated.

PLEASE HELP ASAP

 

Scott

Sestrich@aol.com 

[NCFM]

On 5/16/2020 at 3:40 PM, Secbnc said:

Hello,

I live in near Carolina Beach NC. Near Wilmington NC.

 

I have several palm trees (I believe the 1 in question is a Sable) that have been thriving for 20 years.

All of the sudden, seems like just cropped up, my tree near my pool lost about 1.5-2 foot of bark. Below and above the area look fine. Tree is producing new frones looks otherwise healthy.

First can I save this beloved tree

Second, what is wrong and why.

Trying to include pic from phone. Can't see how to do that except from url

Any all help would be greatly appreciated.

PLEASE HELP ASAP

 

Scott

Sestrich@aol.com 

Sabals naturally lose their "boots" (the criss cross things on the trunk) as they age. If this is what you're describing it's absolutely nothing to worry about.

[JLM]

Yep @Secbnc! This is nothing to worry about if the boots is what you describe. The boots will come off to reveal a smooth gray trunk, this happens naturally as it ages.

[Palms-in-ilmnc]

Hi... I live down the road in Kure Beach and I have a palm with the same trunk damage you described.  Its more than just the boots coming off.  Its the outer layer of trunk under the boots coming off the trunk kind of like delaminating plywood.  I've seen lots of discussion threads on the problem with the causes ranging from over watering to freeze damage.  I buy into the freeze damage theory myself.  From what I gather it's mostly a cosmetic issue and not something that you can do much about except live with it.  It should not affect the tree's viability 

[Thomashan2]

Hi, I have a similar Queen Palm issue that only the sprinkler side of trunk got eaten by 1/4 of the entire diameter. I had one arborist said sprinkler caused and a second opinion said over water caused root rot. 

I've adjusted the sprinkler but really wonder if I should cut it down (15years) or leave it try to survive. It is near the pool equipment, which could be a big damage.

Could I know if any of above mentioned trees survive 5 years since 2016?