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Sabal Palmetto In Zone 7b?

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Steve the palmreader
6 minutes ago, Desert DAC said:

Thanks for those pics in Mtgy, and the cabbage palms there remind me of the Phoenix dactylifera in El Paso or Las Cruces (very few)...they look healthy, just shorter than in another zone warmer in winter. But impressive, and if those in Atlanta in other posts look decent, I would expect S. palmetto to look better in Mtgy.

Are they not planted in Mtgy because some think that look is wrong for there? I read recently how Mobile AL is doing what LA in So Cal is...removing palms since "they don't belong there" and replacing with oaks. I can see planting more local native trees in new landscapes, but it seems odd to say palms used in either area are anything but thriving and add character. I.E. neighborhoods in South Pasadena long imprinted on me...Washingtonia robusta lined both parkways, underplanted with jacarandas. 

That was pushed in the Jacksonville area in the 1980s ,But the market took over and palms are widely planted there again.

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Turtlesteve
On 1/18/2017, 11:23:18, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Any new photos / updates on those palms after this latest storms and freeze?   Just wondering.  Hope they all fared well! 

Well, I was in Greenville over the weekend but I didn't stop to get a photo because the weather was terrible.  Does not look to have been damaged at all this year.

Also saw a few more palmettos in Greer.  I did not see any significant cold damage on these either.

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SEokie

I plan on testing Cabbage palms this coming Spring here in 7b (we are a strange z7 because ~50% of our Jan highs are in the 60s & 70s, yet we can get sharp 50*+ drops in a matter of a few hours). I have a 3 foot Texas Sabal in a completely unprotected microclimate that has survived 5 years now here, however it completely defoliates when temps drop below 10*F. However, I may have lost it this year, because we had a freak night in the very low single digits a few weeks ago (weather forecast missed it by 18 degrees, and it broke our low temp record), I did not cover it, and the spear pulled. Meanwhile my S. Minors show no damage whatsoever. Depending on the duration of cold events, and length/heat of summers, I think it can be done. Especially if it is given protection on single digit nights.

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GeorgiaPalms

I was in Braselton, GA today in the far North East Atlanta suburbs and came across another planting of Sabal Palmettos at a hotel location. I'm not certain how long these Palmettos have been planted in the location but they do look pretty good. I've included a link to a video I filmed of these specimens as well. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyXt_fcH7vU

Cheers!

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DCA_Palm_Fan
2 hours ago, GeorgiaPalms said:

I was in Braselton, GA today in the far North East Atlanta suburbs and came across another planting of Sabal Palmettos at a hotel location. I'm not certain how long these Palmettos have been planted in the location but they do look pretty good. I've included a link to a video I filmed of these specimens as well. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyXt_fcH7vU

Cheers!

Very nice.  They don't look terribly new to me as these are almost always hurricane cut when transplanted at that size.  Probably been there for a couple years now. They're crowns look good and full and they (at least one I could see) had bloomed. Those are signs of established healthy Sabal Palmettos.   They seem underused in the Atlanta area to me.  Is that the case? or are there a lot more in ATL than I remember? 

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GeorgiaPalms
On 1/30/2017, 6:50:11, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Very nice.  They don't look terribly new to me as these are almost always hurricane cut when transplanted at that size.  Probably been there for a couple years now. They're crowns look good and full and they (at least one I could see) had bloomed. Those are signs of established healthy Sabal Palmettos.   They seem underused in the Atlanta area to me.  Is that the case? or are there a lot more in ATL than I remember? 

They are good display of palmettos in the Northern Atlanta suburbs area. They (palms in general) are not used that often here, but if you keep the look out for them you'll definitely notice palms sprinkled all are around the metro area and suburbs. There is a good amount of Trachycarpus, S.Minor, Rhapidophyllum in the area. To a lesser extent you encounter S.Palmettos and Butia. They are all more common on the south side of town as compared to the north.

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climate change virginia
On 6/5/2016 at 4:52 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Could you be more specific on your location, i.e., SE Tenn or coastal NC so we can give you reasonably accurate info? I come from northern VA, which is 7a/7b. Some people said we were humid subtropical based on our summers. But no S. palmetto could survive winters there without protection.

thats not true they can survive 0 degrees f but our hardfreezes are rough so they will regrow during april

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Will Simpson
On 6/5/2016 at 1:46 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Is it possible to grow a Sabal Palmetto in zone 7b? I have seen a few here but I have no clue if they are protected. I was thinking I could protect one (if I get one) for the first two years to let it get established and then leave it unprotected for the rest of the winters after. What do you think?

I grew 2 HC Palmettos that were  trunking and flowering , but the winter here where we had a 100 year event ( according to Gary Hollar in New Bern , NC ,  and his winter there is normally milder than me , had just as bad an 8 day period as I did  )   where it didn't get above 32F for 8 straight days with 2 lows of 7F and highs of 27F and other lows of 12F . The  Palmettos just needed to thaw out during that 8 day period  , and in my opinion needed a 45F high for the day and maybe one night above 32F ? They handled cold down to 4F and 5F in different previous winters    , but couldn't handle those 8 days  . My Tifton Hardy did survive , but it wasn't an HC Palmetto . 

I could kick myself for not trunk protecting them during that record cold snap because it's so easy to protect the trunks , and the lowest low  was 7F , which Palmettos are known to be hardy to , which is why I didn't protect the trunks . Are you ready for some pictures of them the year before they died  ? Very sad ! 

Their flowers were downright showy , with seeds that year and  in previous years  . The last picture is in the winter sometime before the 8 day cold snap . Both would've laughed at the rest of that winter and the winters after that unreal cold , and should be alive today with very little effort on my part .

DSC04708.JPG

DSC04448.JPG

Edited by Will Simpson
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Will Simpson
On 6/5/2016 at 1:46 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Is it possible to grow a Sabal Palmetto in zone 7b? I have seen a few here but I have no clue if they are protected. I was thinking I could protect one (if I get one) for the first two years to let it get established and then leave it unprotected for the rest of the winters after. What do you think?

Sorry for  posting twice . I thought I was moving this post  to the front .

Winston-Salem Palmettos in my yard . Summer and winter . More explanation in a post at the end of this thread , sadly  .

DSC04708.JPG

DSC04756.JPG

Edited by Will Simpson
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climate change virginia
On 11/24/2016 at 1:28 PM, kinzyjr said:

They certainly are capable of growing in SE Virginia, but seeing that you spend some time in FL, make sure you get seeds and/or plants from closer to VA.  Somewhere like NC.  Sabals are extremely variable.  If you get plants or seeds from Florida, they likely aren't a variety that tolerates cold as well.

could they survive in dc our weather is like VA beach

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climate change virginia
On 12/21/2016 at 6:48 AM, Turtlesteve said:

There are a few scattered sabal palmettos on the north side of Greenville, SC.  This was solid zone 7B on the old USDA map, near the 7B/8A border on the new map.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.8940117,-82.4383417,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPxL8cSgII1T7fdUPvSgF-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I can remember seeing these palms many years ago in college.  I can't say they are thriving (having shown minimal growth) but they certainly aren't dead.

Steve

those are trachys

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climate change virginia
4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

oh ok ya what I said was an exaggeration its more like a really cold 8a that sometimes when polar vortexes hit it gets to 7-9 degrees f.

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climate change virginia

Could I try a Sabal Palmetto Birmingham in my zone?

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kinzyjr
1 minute ago, climate change virginia said:

Could I try a Sabal Palmetto Birmingham in my zone?

Might as well if you can get the seeds or a plant.  In somewhat marginal climates, it helps to protect them for the first 2-3 years so they can get established.  Sometimes if you just throw them in the ground and get a rough winter, they'll die from temperatures you expected them to survive.  As cheap as Sabal palmetto seeds are, might as well give a few a go.  If they perish, you don't really lose that much, and you can probably grow them in a pot for a decade or better before they get too large to come inside.  You'd be finished with a Bachelor's Degree by then :) 

Sabal palmetto could just be a day trip to VA beach or South of the Border with the parents and a plastic bag.  Each palm probably puts off 1,000+ seeds and you get ~80%-90% germination with a little bottom heat.  Plus, this is their time of year to flower and fruit (Oct.-Dec.).

Our local palm society is selling Sabal palmetto and Sabal minor seeds relatively cheap as well: http://cfpacs.com/org/seeds-for-sale/

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climate change virginia
12 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Might as well if you can get the seeds or a plant.  In somewhat marginal climates, it helps to protect them for the first 2-3 years so they can get established.  Sometimes if you just throw them in the ground and get a rough winter, they'll die from temperatures you expected them to survive.  As cheap as Sabal palmetto seeds are, might as well give a few a go.  If they perish, you don't really lose that much, and you can probably grow them in a pot for a decade or better before they get too large to come inside.  You'd be finished with a Bachelor's Degree by then :) 

Sabal palmetto could just be a day trip to VA beach or South of the Border with the parents and a plastic bag.  Each palm probably puts off 1,000+ seeds and you get ~80%-90% germination with a little bottom heat.  Plus, this is their time of year to flower and fruit (Oct.-Dec.).

Our local palm society is selling Sabal palmetto and Sabal minor seeds relatively cheap as well: http://cfpacs.com/org/seeds-for-sale/

Sounds like a good plan thanks :D

Edited by climate change virginia

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climate change virginia

Also how fast does sabal palmetto Birmingham grow

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NC_Palm_Enthusiast
6 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

Also how fast does sabal palmetto Birmingham grow

Very slowly. Sabal louisiana and brazoria are both faster in my experience 

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Turtlesteve
12 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

those are trachys

There was a big palmetto in the middle of the group of trachys when I posted it, but it died and they have since updated the streetview image.  Here's the 08 version.palmetto.png.fcdeb915bd379117e6db9d33850e63a7.png

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climate change virginia
1 hour ago, Turtlesteve said:

There was a big palmetto in the middle of the group of trachys when I posted it, but it died and they have since updated the streetview image.  Here's the 08 version.palmetto.png.fcdeb915bd379117e6db9d33850e63a7.png

oh i see it now

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ChrisA

My Sabal Birmingham just grew 2 fronds this past season.  Planted about 4-5 years ago purchased as a 3 inch pot from Plant Delights.  VERY slow grower!

Edited by ChrisA

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climate change virginia
9 hours ago, ChrisA said:

My Sabal Birmingham just grew 2 fronds this past season.  Planted about 4-5 years ago purchased as a 3 inch pot from Plant Delights.  VERY slow grower!

wow thats slow how tall is it?

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ChrisA

Maybe a bit over two feet? So far no super costapalmate fronds, but looking closely today it grew two full fronds and has a spear which has come up quite a bit.  After the frigid Monday and snow storm it’ll probably stop growing.  Here is a photo from just now with a size 9.5 shoe. Also a size comparison with my W. filibusta.  F51A3F68-008D-47A3-A500-55A851FE996D.thumb.jpeg.6836babc4852b866256f921dc806b45e.jpeg

AE653AEE-DF99-4BA4-8825-FB9F8F192E42.jpeg

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climate change virginia
12 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Maybe a bit over two feet? So far no super costapalmate fronds, but looking closely today it grew two full fronds and has a spear which has come up quite a bit.  After the frigid Monday and snow storm it’ll probably stop growing.  Here is a photo from just now with a size 9.5 shoe. Also a size comparison with my W. filibusta.  F51A3F68-008D-47A3-A500-55A851FE996D.thumb.jpeg.6836babc4852b866256f921dc806b45e.jpeg

AE653AEE-DF99-4BA4-8825-FB9F8F192E42.jpeg

Does it have a trunk?

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ChrisA

No trunk yet. 

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 10/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, kinzyjr said:

Hahaha.  Yeah, they have been tried and tried again in DC even in warm micro climates.  They all die eventually.  Climate change has not quite affected things enough to make S. Palmetto viable long term in the DC area or really much any place too far north of Va Beach. 

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climate change virginia
1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Hahaha.  Yeah, they have been tried and tried again in DC even in warm micro climates.  They all die eventually.  Climate change has not quite affected things enough to make S. Palmetto viable long term in the DC area or really much any place too far north of Va Beach. 

sabal birmingham might work

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DCA_Palm_Fan
12 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

sabal birmingham might work

They may, or may not.  Someone would have to try it and in a very protected south facing micro climate.   The only Sabal species I have seen grow successfully long term in warm micro climates in the DC area are S. Minor.    They are tough and can take some pretty harsh cold even for extended periods over night, as long as they warm up above freezing  the next day it seems.   The one I planted at my then home in Alexandria VA, is still there a decade later and is a good size now.  Its on the front / south side of the house in an L shaped corner thats protected from the north and west side.   ITs always substantially warmer there.  Even during big snows that part of the yard was clear within a day or two from melt.   

 

Id say give S. Birmingham a try and see what you get.  Its worth a shot.   There are places in the DC area where some have some very large windmills and S Minor and even some large Pindo palms.   Having a tropical looking landscape there is definitely doable, its just a matter of siting and trial and error as to what will work for you particular space.   

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climate change virginia
45 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

They may, or may not.  Someone would have to try it and in a very protected south facing micro climate.   The only Sabal species I have seen grow successfully long term in warm micro climates in the DC area are S. Minor.    They are tough and can take some pretty harsh cold even for extended periods over night, as long as they warm up above freezing  the next day it seems.   The one I planted at my then home in Alexandria VA, is still there a decade later and is a good size now.  Its on the front / south side of the house in an L shaped corner thats protected from the north and west side.   ITs always substantially warmer there.  Even during big snows that part of the yard was clear within a day or two from melt.   

 

Id say give S. Birmingham a try and see what you get.  Its worth a shot.   There are places in the DC area where some have some very large windmills and S Minor and even some large Pindo palms.   Having a tropical looking landscape there is definitely doable, its just a matter of siting and trial and error as to what will work for you particular space.   

what about bhi, mt. holly, tiffon hardy palmettos

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DCA_Palm_Fan
10 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

what about bhi, mt. holly, tiffon hardy palmettos

I am not sure what those are. Are they places? 

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climate change virginia
37 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

I am not sure what those are. Are they places? 

they are varietys of palmetto bhi is the place they originate its like sabal mior lousiana

Edited by climate change virginia

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DCA_Palm_Fan
1 hour ago, climate change virginia said:

they are varietys of palmetto bhi is the place they originate its like sabal mior lousiana

Interesting. I have not heard of those.  Hmm.

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GeorgiaPalms

This thread is kind of dated, but I thought I would share this video as well in Gainesville, GA that I filmed last month. There are some Palmettos growing in the area and seem to be naturalizing all around the little area. This is on the zone 8a border according to the latest USDA map, the arbor day has it quite solid 8a.

 

 

Edited by GeorgiaPalms

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