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Pritchardia martii or ???


Tracy

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Nice pics Tim, any idea where those were.??  Those are really tall in comparison to the upper level ones .

aloha

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  • 8 months later...
On 6/5/2019 at 1:38 PM, Tracy said:

I'm just not feeling Pritchardia martii at this point with mine.  Curious what your little guy looks like 2 years later Matt (the one pictured above for the leaf underside).  Can anyone match it with a different Pritcharida species?

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@Tracy Did you come to a conclusion on what this may be?  I am in the same boat as you are/were.  I would guess maybe beccariana?  Please don't take my guess serious.  I'm as green as the underside as those leaves :floor:

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Here is a pic of mine that was purchased as perlmanii. The undersides are green like yours but have some browning/whitish "fuzz" on the petiole. 

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55 minutes ago, Big Eye said:

@Tracy Did you come to a conclusion on what this may be?  I am in the same boat as you are/were.  I would guess maybe beccariana?  Please don't take my guess serious.  I'm as green as the underside as those leaves :floor:

I am still waiting for it to get larger and someday produce fruit that may assist in the id.  I do know that it is very different from my Pritchardia beccariana which has flatter more 2 dimensional leaves and proportionally for the plant much larger leaves.  Here P beccariana is also much more susceptible to spotting from our coldest winter temps.  Good luck with your id.  For those more familiar with the genus, photos of the entire palm as well as close ups of the trunk will be helpful.

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 8 months later...
On 6/5/2019 at 8:01 PM, quaman58 said:

have to agree, probably not martii. But it's got the nice big circular flat leaves, which is cool. It is a knock off of a Jungle Music "lanaiensis" that I'm growing. So, assuming that it was correctly labeled when I bought it (always a precarious assumption with Pritchardia), if you follow that bread crumb trail through Don Hodel's book, it would be glabrata. I know, that's a lot of assumptions...

So Bret, do my updated photos still look like the plant you got from Jungle Music as Pritchardia lanaiensis?  Mine is starting to show some lepidota on the underside of the leaflet margins, but not dispersed through the rest of the leaf underside.  It doesn't have the prominent triangular liguales that Matty's P martii have as shown in photos earlier in this thread.  It's attractive even though I have no doubt at this point that it is not Pritchardia martii.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Tracy,

 Yours is a lot more lush looking than mine is, so I guess you need to compare with a somewhat filtered eye.   Whether it is the palm itself, or the rather exposed area  (only a few feet from a big Washingtonia as well), it is somewhat slow growing, and has remained rather short and stocky.  Interestingly, it also yellows out a lot during the winter, only to green up nicely with the return of warm weather, year in, year out. It's the only Pritchardia have that does this. The yellow mid-rib on the leaves stand out a lot on this one. Here you go..

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Edited by quaman58

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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7 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Whether it is the palm itself, or the rather exposed area

Very nice specimen Bret.  There is definitely a difference in exposure that yours receives compared to mine.  Mine receives almost the opposite, some filtering from my neighbor's Howea's on the other side of the fence, my house to the south blocking winter sunlight and a solitary Dypsis pembana overhead immediately to the west.  As you note, it's hard to ascertain if the cultural differences translate into the appearance differences or if it is more fundamental genetics.  I had some droopy leaftips after the Dypsis pembana dropped a frond on them, but as soon as I bent them back up the droopy leaf tips disappeared on the two leaves.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Tracy, not so sure yours is P. martii, and I doubt it is P. glabrara either. Given the variability of the species and the difficulty of identifying younger plants, your’s just doesn’t look like a P. martii as you’ve already suspected. To be even less help, I have no idea what it could be.

The seed for my P. Martii came from a wild population on Oahu and I must say, it’s just a stunning palm. To me, it’s right up there with P. viscosa. 

My P. glabrata also came from a trusted source and the two species, appearance wise, could not be more different. 

Here are a few photos of both palms and check out the leaf stiffness and the amount of lepida on the P. martii, both on the underside and the apical end of the petiole.  

The P. glabrata will be on a separate post.

Tim

 

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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Here are a few photos of P. glabrata, so different. Squat, wide, soft pendulous leaves, and copious clusters of seed,  In one of the photos there is a P. martii in the background, the difference is obvious. These natives are located in the ‘wild’ part of the garden.

Tim

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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3 hours ago, realarch said:

Tracy, not so sure yours is P. martii, and I doubt it is P. glabrara either. Given the variability of the species and the difficulty of identifying younger plants, your’s just doesn’t look like a P. martii as you’ve already suspected. To be even less help, I have no idea what it could be.

The seed for my P. Martii came from a wild population on Oahu and I must say, it’s just a stunning palm. To me, it’s right up there with P. viscosa. 

My P. glabrata also came from a trusted source and the two species, appearance wise, could not be more different. 

Here are a few photos of both palms and check out the leaf stiffness and the amount of lepida on the P. martii, both on the underside and the apical end of the petiole

I fell in love with P martii while visiting some public gardens on Oahu while surfing the north shore with my sons several years back.  When I saw one come up at a palm society auction I wasn't going to miss the opportunity.  Initially when this wasn't looking like a P martii, I considered removing it and trying to find the real deal to replace it.  I've given up on that, as much as I love the P. martii look and decided to keep this one in place, whatever it is.  I have to agree that your P glabrata looks different as well.  Mine has none of the pendant leaftips one would expect of P glabrata.  I guess I have the inverse of your trusted seed sources for my Pritchardia, not that I'm saying anyone did anything intentional to mislabel it.  Perhaps the difficult identification is because it's a hybrid and so doesn't show all the right characteristics for any true species.  Someday it will flower and hopefully that will provide additional clues to the puzzle.

I love your P martii and really like the P glabrata!  :drool:

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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On 11/17/2020 at 7:11 AM, quaman58 said:

Tracy,

 Yours is a lot more lush looking than mine is, so I guess you need to compare with a somewhat filtered eye.   Whether it is the palm itself, or the rather exposed area  (only a few feet from a big Washingtonia as well), it is somewhat slow growing, and has remained rather short and stocky.  Interestingly, it also yellows out a lot during the winter, only to green up nicely with the return of warm weather, year in, year out. It's the only Pritchardia have that does this. The yellow mid-rib on the leaves stand out a lot on this one. Here you go..

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My Martii looks Like that!  Can’t wait for 10 more years to see it grow little taller lol. 

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  • 5 months later...

Here's a Martii I bought from Floribunda and I have to make a decision on plant or pot up. Not seeing too many markings. Maybe it's Beccariana? 

 

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Yeah Matt, I don't see much coloration on the leaf undersides. Which is weird, since FB is usually very good with their Id's.  The leaf shape & contour seems right for Martii; I don't think it's flat enough for becarriana. Looks happy as a clam though..

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Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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I have one bought about 20 years ago.  Probably the last 10 the irrigation failed and it's been living just fine under the shade of a huge old 50+ year old Kukui Nut tree that was here and huge when I bought the place 40 years ago.  It's been living in the shade and growing slowly on about 20" of rain a year.  What do you think is it really P. martii?   It has about 5' of trunk below the hanging fronds.

 

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Steve

Born in the Bronx

Raised in Brooklyn

Matured In Wai`anae

I can't be held responsible for anything I say or do....LOL

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  • 7 months later...

I'm still stumped on this one.  The lower leaves with bent tips is only because they get run into when going along the walkway or wheeling my trash cans out.  Blades are pretty stiff until they get bent by something else.  While there is a hint of flecking on the edges of the undersides of the leaves, the rest of the underside is pretty darn green.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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14 hours ago, Tracy said:

I'm still stumped on this one.  The lower leaves with bent tips is only because they get run into when going along the walkway or wheeling my trash cans out.  Blades are pretty stiff until they get bent by something else.  While there is a hint of flecking on the edges of the undersides of the leaves, the rest of the underside is pretty darn green.

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Any chance its Pritchardia waialealeana? It looks somewhat similar to the one in Hoomaluhia which has those distinct all green leaves.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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14 hours ago, Kailua_Krish said:

Any chance its Pritchardia waialealeana? It looks somewhat similar to the one in Hoomaluhia which has those distinct all green leaves.

This one is very rare I think. It does share some features like a lake of hairs on the ridges of the leaflet-petiole juncture.

I noticed that with this one and p. glabrata, stiff vs. droopy leaflet tips seems to be a variable feature and not a reliable identifier.  

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29 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

This one is very rare I think. It does share some features like a lake of hairs on the ridges of the leaflet-petiole juncture.

I noticed that with this one and p. glabrata, stiff vs. droopy leaflet tips seems to be a variable feature and not a reliable identifier.  

Floribunda sells them so while uncommon not really rare per se

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-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Thanks for clarifying. Yeah I shouldn't have said "very rare". Hodel's book says it is rare in cultivation and has been limited in setting seed. Seems like a possibility to be it.

Should have said "lack of hairs" not "lake of hairs".

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6 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah I shouldn't have said "very rare". Hodel's book says it is rare in cultivation and has been limited in setting seed. Seems like a possibility to be it.

Should have said "lack of hairs" not "lake of hairs".

No worries! Apologize if it came off snarky. I just know that given the popularity of Floribunda as a source for palms and how easy it is to mix up pritchardia seedlings it could be in the realm of possibility. I have one in my yard but its much too small to make a comparison. The key thing I noticed at Hoomaluhia was that they were much more of a lime green than the other species, even growing in the same soil and they weren't potassium deficient.

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-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/16/2021 at 7:36 AM, Kailua_Krish said:

Any chance its Pritchardia waialealeana? It looks somewhat similar to the one in Hoomaluhia which has those distinct all green leaves.

I looked P wailealeana up on Palmpedia and at least some of the description applies:

proximal margins of petiole with only a few fibers; leaf blade slightly undulate, divided 2/5, abaxial surface incompletely covered with scattered lepidia and mostly lacking cottony indumentum on folds at base, segment tips drooping to occasionally stiff;

Will probably have to wait for this one to get mature enough to produce an inflorescence and seed to get a better idea.  Thank you for the tip Krish.  Anyone growing P wialealeana that can share what theirs looks like for comparison, I would appreciate seeing.  I think all the photos on Palmpedia for this species were specimens in habitat.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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  • 1 month later...

@Tracy , I as well have a bit of a query regarding my “Martii”. It was sold to me as a 1G last year and he stated it was procured from Floribunda. It has grown very well in virtually all day sun with a little protection to the West from my Chambeyronia Hookeri. I have another in the backyard that o got at the same time. I just planted last week and the size difference is immense. The one in reference has grown much, much more which is fantastic!! 
 

After looking at it more thoroughly today while watering over the top, I noticed a couple features that are similar to yours so I thought I’d post for review. It seams to have an odd amount of flecking on the petiol but it doesn’t seem to transfer to the leaf undersides. They are almost all green. Very light speckling at best.  I do see a yellow stripe on the petiol as @MattyB stated previously but not sure if that confirms anything. Leaf structure looks good too. I don’t know….what do you all think? 
 

Thanks in advance. 
 

-dale

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3 hours ago, Billeb said:

@Tracy , I as well have a bit of a query regarding my “Martii”. It was sold to me as a 1G last year and he stated it was procured from Floribunda. It has grown very well in virtually all day sun with a little protection to the West from my Chambeyronia Hookeri. I have another in the backyard that o got at the same time. I just planted last week and the size difference is immense. The one in reference has grown much, much more which is fantastic!! 
 

After looking at it more thoroughly today while watering over the top, I noticed a couple features that are similar to yours so I thought I’d post for review. It seams to have an odd amount of flecking on the petiol but it doesn’t seem to transfer to the leaf undersides. They are almost all green. Very light speckling at best.  I do see a yellow stripe on the petiol as @MattyB stated previously but not sure if that confirms anything. Leaf structure looks good too. I don’t know….what do you all think? 
 

Thanks in advance. 
 

-dale

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Nice looking but as to the id, I don't know.   These are so difficult at this size.  I still have a few Pritchardia which ate close to flowering age that I don't have solid id's for yet.  

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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Dale, just an observation. After looking at the P. martii here in the garden yours looks to be something different. I wish I could ID yours, but as Tracy alluded to, Pritchardia are hard to identify particularly when young. The leaves on my martii have deep splits between the pinnae, probably 1/3 of the entire leaf. The end of the leaflets are also very pointed and split. The lepidia on the underside are so prominent that it appears white. 

Here are a few photos from the garden, it always amazes me just how long the petioles are being in full sun. 

Tim

 

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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2 hours ago, realarch said:

The lepidia on the underside are so prominent that it appears white. 

 

2 hours ago, realarch said:

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Even without looking for the other features you mentioned that are present on yours, if one doesn't see that white out of lepidia on the undersides, I think that one can rule out P martii.  I think I alluded to the fact that I was told that mine "might" develop more lepidia as it matured.  While it did develop some leidia on the margins of the leaves, it never filled in like what you show.  At the size mine is, I have ruled out P martii now.  I'm a bit hesitant on the advice that I received about them developing more lepidia as they mature, as the other Pritcharidia species I have that are covered with lepidia, it was apparent at a very small size.  Thanks for the updated post of your beautiful Pritchardia martii Tim!  It's the gold standard for comparison.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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4 hours ago, realarch said:

Dale, just an observation. After looking at the P. martii here in the garden yours looks to be something different. I wish I could ID yours, but as Tracy alluded to, Pritchardia are hard to identify particularly when young. The leaves on my martii have deep splits between the pinnae, probably 1/3 of the entire leaf. The end of the leaflets are also very pointed and split. The lepidia on the underside are so prominent that it appears white. 

Here are a few photos from the garden, it always amazes me just how long the petioles are being in full sun. 

Tim

 

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Tim, I hear ya. I guess I’m holding onto the fact that it was procured from FB and Jeff’s ID’ing has been known to be accurate.  I’m also hoping others are true in stating the color on the underside comes in later in life. Sounds pretty optimistic I guess. 

I think we’ve all seen pretty big Pritchardias. Because of the location I planted this supposed “Martii” and it’s growth size, I’m praying it’s at minimum a hybrid to keep it not so grand. It’s not in the right location for that. 
 

only time will tell. Will update this thread with pics as Tracy has been doing. Thanks. 
 

-dale

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