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How was your winter?

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bubba

 How was your winter?

 Growing days /  December 2015 - February 2016 

LA-876

PS-914

PH,AZ-777

B'Ville,Tx-1278

CC,Tx-1010

Orl,Fl-1373

MIA,Fl-1898

KW,Fl-2028

HON,Ha-2284

Koeppen  requirement for tropical designation 64.4 F  coldest month 

LA-57,PS-56, PH-54, B'Ville-59, CC-57, Orl-60 and MIA-68

Please elaborate.

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Cindy Adair

I like that banana! Mine is small and just now showing hints of black at the base. Please post updates as yours blooms and fruits! 

Thanks!

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bubba

NO. La.- Growing-886- minimum month -54F

HOU.Tx- Growing-809- minimum month -53

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_Keith
18 minutes ago, bubba said:

NO. La.- Growing-886- minimum month -54F

HOU.Tx- Growing-809- minimum month -53

A rare year.  Usually those number would flip flopped plus a couple of degrees.

 

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Alicante
On 7/3/2016 5:45:49, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Proeza,

What are the normal highs and lows in F in areas like Cartagena and Malaga in the winter time?  I Would think that a Jamaican Tall (Atlantic Tall) Coconut Palm would do fairly well there in a good south facing microclimate.

John

It differs on the place or city. The official climate station from the port of Malaga (http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/observacion/ultimosdatos?k=and&l=6172O&w=2&datos=det) shows some temperatures which are very mild and quite warmer than the official ones from the city.

The average on the coldest month (January) is about 14ºC/57.2F. The annual average is about 20ºC/68F.

Those last 3 days we were affected by a cold wave which let snow at +800m altitude places. This is how the "cold" affects Malaga:

07 mar 2016
16.5
 
(17:00)
10.0
 
(07:50)
06 mar 2016
17.9
 
(17:20)
9.8
 
(07:40)
05 mar 2016
17.5
 
(15:20)
10.7
 
(08:20)

Those are some of the coldest days of 2016 in Málaga coastline. The maximums range from 16.5 to 17.9ºC (61.7F to 64.3F) while the minimums range from 9.8 to 10.7ºC (49.7 to 51.3F). The other days were quite normal, as they weren't affected by any major climate factor:

04 mar 2016
21.4
 
(11:20)
12.3
 
(08:00)
03 mar 2016
24.3
 
(15:20)
14.5
 
(07:30)
02 mar 2016
25.1
 
(14:00)
12.6
 
(05:20)
01 mar 2016
24.5
 
(13:20)
12.2
 
(04:40)

 

1st of March; 24.5/12.2ºC - 71.6/54F. | 2st March: 25.1/12.6ºC - 77.2/54.7F.

3st March: 24.3/14.5ºC - 75.7/51.8F. | 4th March: 21.4/12.3ºC - 70.5/54.2F

They have the mildest climate in Spain (Mango is commercially grown). This is how a Raphia Finifera looks after the entire winter (photos taken in 21th March):

P1010198.JPG

Dictyosperma looks like this in March:

010320102120.jpg

And enormous Roystoneas:

ou0gmr.png

But none coconut :( . I think that it can certainly grow there in the best microclimates in winter. Cartagena looks like this:

4hcy2g.png

But I didn't find any trace about coconuts or any trying of coconuts right there... The warmest mean annual averages from Spain are in Cartagena-Aguilas zone and in some spots from the southernmost coast, like Motril, Almuñecar or Málaga. Surpassing 20ºC (68F) of annual average only happens in Murcia province (Cartagena and Aguilas are from Murcia), and maybe somewhere in Malaga province close to the coastline; like in the official weather station of the port.

 

Edited by pRoeZa*
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bubba

 Malaga, Spain -683 G-MM-57F

 Las Vegas,NV-310 G- MM-47F

 Panama City Beach, FL.-714G-MM-51F

 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
21 hours ago, pRoeZa* said:

It differs on the place or city. The official climate station from the port of Malaga (http://www.aemet.es/es/eltiempo/observacion/ultimosdatos?k=and&l=6172O&w=2&datos=det) shows some temperatures which are very mild and quite warmer than the official ones from the city.

The average on the coldest month (January) is about 14ºC/57.2F. The annual average is about 20ºC/68F.

Those last 3 days we were affected by a cold wave which let snow at +800m altitude places. This is how the "cold" affects Malaga:

07 mar 2016
16.5
 
(17:00)
10.0
 
(07:50)
06 mar 2016
17.9
 
(17:20)
9.8
 
(07:40)
05 mar 2016
17.5
 
(15:20)
10.7
 
(08:20)

Those are some of the coldest days of 2016 in Málaga coastline. The maximums range from 16.5 to 17.9ºC (61.7F to 64.3F) while the minimums range from 9.8 to 10.7ºC (49.7 to 51.3F). The other days were quite normal, as they weren't affected by any major climate factor:

04 mar 2016
21.4
 
(11:20)
12.3
 
(08:00)
03 mar 2016
24.3
 
(15:20)
14.5
 
(07:30)
02 mar 2016
25.1
 
(14:00)
12.6
 
(05:20)
01 mar 2016
24.5
 
(13:20)
12.2
 
(04:40)

 

1st of March; 24.5/12.2ºC - 71.6/54F. | 2st March: 25.1/12.6ºC - 77.2/54.7F.

3st March: 24.3/14.5ºC - 75.7/51.8F. | 4th March: 21.4/12.3ºC - 70.5/54.2F

They have the mildest climate in Spain (Mango is commercially grown). This is how a Raphia Finifera looks after the entire winter (photos taken in 21th March):

P1010198.JPG

Dictyosperma looks like this in March:

010320102120.jpg

And enormous Roystoneas:

ou0gmr.png

But none coconut :( . I think that it can certainly grow there in the best microclimates in winter. Cartagena looks like this:

4hcy2g.png

But I didn't find any trace about coconuts or any trying of coconuts right there... The warmest mean annual averages from Spain are in Cartagena-Aguilas zone and in some spots from the southernmost coast, like Motril, Almuñecar or Málaga. Surpassing 20ºC (68F) of annual average only happens in Murcia province (Cartagena and Aguilas are from Murcia), and maybe somewhere in Malaga province close to the coastline; like in the official weather station of the port.

 

Proeza,

Those are some really nice palms.  I especially like the big Royals.  It might be that the coast of Spain is just a little too chilly for Coconut Palms, even though even though it may be a 10B climate.  Coconut Palms don't like chilly weather, even if the temps are above freezing, and they especially don't like chilly damp weather.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
5 hours ago, bubba said:

 Malaga, Spain -683 G-MM-57F

 Las Vegas,NV-310 G- MM-47F

 Panama City Beach, FL.-714G-MM-51F

 

Keith,

Malaga, Spain has a mild winter time climate, but may just be a little too chilly for Coconut Palms, even though those January average temps are about the same as mine here, but here in Corpus Christi, our average temps warm up rapidly in February and March above the magic 60F soil temp for coconuts, whereas the coast of Spain, like in coastal Southern California has average temps that stay in the 50'sF from Dec. through March.

John

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Alicante
7 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Proeza,

Those are some really nice palms.  I especially like the big Royals.  It might be that the coast of Spain is just a little too chilly for Coconut Palms, even though even though it may be a 10B climate.  Coconut Palms don't like chilly weather, even if the temps are above freezing, and they especially don't like chilly damp weather.

John

Hello buddy, well Malaga in fact is a 11a climate, as some other zones from the southernmost coast of Spain.

It's not a humid climate, and the humidity it's higher in late summer and autumn, but the winters aren't very humid at all. In fact, Malaga has also semi-arid climate, Cadiz for example is very chilly and humid during all year (Cadiz is in the southernmost part of Spain, the climate of Cadiz is very similar to the climate of San Diego, the average annual temperature is about 18.6ºC/65.5F and all the seasons are mild, with about 3000h of yearly sunshine).

Durban in South Africa for example has similar winter lows but the maximums are above 23ºC in the coldest month (73.4F), it's the place that I've seen with the lowest winter averages that can hold a coconut, but the highs are also warm, the average maximum of the entire winter is about 24ºC (75.2F) in Durban. Malaga I think that it perfectly fits with the climate from Los Angeles. It's mediterranean-subtropical/semi-arid, depending on the zone of the city. In fact, look at how it looks the "Los Angeles Valley" :lol: , it has a totally semi-arid landscape:

ymjw9.png

In the port of Malaga (it applies to the city of Malaga) the normal maximums in Jan. and Feb. are 18-20ºC/64.4-68F while the minimums are 9-11ºC/48.2-51.8F (unless if appears a cold wave or an hot air mass, which usually doesn't get below 6ºC/42.8F in cold waves and above 24ºC/75.2F in hot air masses).

 The official climate chart is from the airport; It's located in a zone which is like a valley where the thermal inversion is significantly bigger than in the city of Malaga, in that climate chart (airport) only 3 months have average maximums under 20ºC/68F, while on the port are bigger; January has 18.8C/65.84F and February has 19.5C/67.1F. The minimums at the airport in January and February (the coldest months) are 7.5C/45.5F 8.2C/46.8F, while on the port January has an average of 9.6ºC/49.3F and February has an average of 10.1ºC/50.2F. January averages 14.2ºC/57.56F and February averages 14.8ºC/58.64F, being the only months with averages under 15ºC/59F in the climate station of the port.

Anyways this 2015-2016 winter was more chilly than normal. The yearly average of the port is about 20ºC/68F but this only happens on the warmest zones, which are very near to the coastline and in the city. The Raphia Finifera didn't get any damage during the winter. 

I don't think that it's possible to grow coconuts on Europe without protection during winters. South California has the indian summers and El Niño phenomenon which gets highs of 25-30ºC/77-86F during various days of the winter, something very good for the coconuts and something impossible in Europe. Even there, with the warm days of the winter the coconuts don't last much winters, and the southernmost coast of California is about at 33ºN, Malaga is at 36º 50'N. 

The coconut of Newport Beach is still alive? The last time I've seen it on the web it was a bit damaged, but still alive. Kind regards John. :greenthumb:

 

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante
9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Keith,

Malaga, Spain has a mild winter time climate, but may just be a little too chilly for Coconut Palms, even though those January average temps are about the same as mine here, but here in Corpus Christi, our average temps warm up rapidly in February and March above the magic 60F soil temp for coconuts, whereas the coast of Spain, like in coastal Southern California has average temps that stay in the 50'sF from Dec. through March.

John

Hey John, one question. Do you think that a coconut would fit in this climate with a bit of wind/leaf protection during January and February? :

4hcy2g.png

This is the climate of Cartagena, normally between March and December the coconut would live good and thrive, until December the maximums are quite warm, lows on November are high and in December they are quite ok. The winter is quite dry, with relative mid-low humidity. It's a BSh climate. 10b/11a.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Mr. Coconut Palm
12 hours ago, pRoeZa* said:

Hello buddy, well Malaga in fact is a 11a climate, as some other zones from the southernmost coast of Spain.

It's not a humid climate, and the humidity it's higher in late summer and autumn, but the winters aren't very humid at all. In fact, Malaga has also semi-arid climate, Cadiz for example is very chilly and humid during all year (Cadiz is in the southernmost part of Spain, the climate of Cadiz is very similar to the climate of San Diego, the average annual temperature is about 18.6ºC/65.5F and all the seasons are mild, with about 3000h of yearly sunshine).

Durban in South Africa for example has similar winter lows but the maximums are above 23ºC in the coldest month (73.4F), it's the place that I've seen with the lowest winter averages that can hold a coconut, but the highs are also warm, the average maximum of the entire winter is about 24ºC (75.2F) in Durban. Malaga I think that it perfectly fits with the climate from Los Angeles. It's mediterranean-subtropical/semi-arid, depending on the zone of the city. In fact, look at how it looks the "Los Angeles Valley" :lol: , it has a totally semi-arid landscape:

ymjw9.png

In the port of Malaga (it applies to the city of Malaga) the normal maximums in Jan. and Feb. are 18-20ºC/64.4-68F while the minimums are 9-11ºC/48.2-51.8F (unless if appears a cold wave or an hot air mass, which usually doesn't get below 6ºC/42.8F in cold waves and above 24ºC/75.2F in hot air masses).

 The official climate chart is from the airport; It's located in a zone which is like a valley where the thermal inversion is significantly bigger than in the city of Malaga, in that climate chart (airport) only 3 months have average maximums under 20ºC/68F, while on the port are bigger; January has 18.8C/65.84F and February has 19.5C/67.1F. The minimums at the airport in January and February (the coldest months) are 7.5C/45.5F 8.2C/46.8F, while on the port January has an average of 9.6ºC/49.3F and February has an average of 10.1ºC/50.2F. January averages 14.2ºC/57.56F and February averages 14.8ºC/58.64F, being the only months with averages under 15ºC/59F in the climate station of the port.

Anyways this 2015-2016 winter was more chilly than normal. The yearly average of the port is about 20ºC/68F but this only happens on the warmest zones, which are very near to the coastline and in the city. The Raphia Finifera didn't get any damage during the winter. 

I don't think that it's possible to grow coconuts on Europe without protection during winters. South California has the indian summers and El Niño phenomenon which gets highs of 25-30ºC/77-86F during various days of the winter, something very good for the coconuts and something impossible in Europe. Even there, with the warm days of the winter the coconuts don't last much winters, and the southernmost coast of California is about at 33ºN, Malaga is at 36º 50'N. 

The coconut of Newport Beach is still alive? The last time I've seen it on the web it was a bit damaged, but still alive. Kind regards John. :greenthumb:

 

Hey Proeza,

Thanks for the detailed info about the coastal climate of Southern Spain.  I am afraid that even though you have a 10B/11A climate there, that your winter averages between the highs/lows are just about 1.5F to 2F too cool for Coconut Palms, but in a well protected microclimate on the south side of a house or building with lots of winter sunshine during the day to warm it up, if planted near a south facing wall that would give off heat at night in the winter, then it may be possible, especially for a Jamaican (Atlantic) Tall, Mexican Tall, or Green Hawaiian Tall (which I think is more tolerant of chilly winter time weather and can probably be grown at a higher elevation than the Golden Hawaiian Tall that is found along the beaches there).  You may be able to get a viable sprouted nut or even a small sprouted coconut sent to you from the Canary Islands that might make it the warmest microclimate along the southern coast of Spain.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
10 hours ago, pRoeZa* said:

Hey John, one question. Do you think that a coconut would fit in this climate with a bit of wind/leaf protection during January and February? :

4hcy2g.png

This is the climate of Cartagena, normally between March and December the coconut would live good and thrive, until December the maximums are quite warm, lows on November are high and in December they are quite ok. The winter is quite dry, with relative mid-low humidity. It's a BSh climate. 10b/11a.

Proeza,

See my post above.  I think that it's just a little too chilly.  Here on the east side of Corpus Christi, Texas, near the water is the NORTHERNMOST LIMIT of where we can try growing them in Texas.  They are marginal here, but they have been known to grow to maturity and even fruit here between really bad winters.  Here at my place, near the Laguna Madre, I average a soil temp of about 57F for a brief period of about 3 to 4 weeks in January, but by mid Feb. my normal average temps (and thus my soil temps) are usually above 60F, which is the minimal soil temp for a coconut to survive for any length of time.  By late Feb. and early Mar., we have a lot of highs in the '70'sF and 80'sF.  Our normal high/low at the airport now is 74F/55F.  Also, in the summer, our normal highs are in the low to mid 90'sF with lows in the mid to upper 70'sF along with high humidity, which Coconut Palms like.  One advantage that you may have in trying one there is that in the winter (as here) your relative humidity is fairly low and you don't have a lot of rain in the winter (same as here), but in Southern California, they have chilly wet winters.  Winter is the rainy season there, and that is what makes it VERY DIFFICULT to grow a Coconut Palm there.  The Newport Beach palm finally died last year.  It made a good long run though for about 30+ years!

John

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SailorBold
On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2016‎ ‎6‎:‎23‎:‎12‎, Palm crazy said:

This might be my last warm winter, do for a cold one in a year or two. This years low was colder at 19F in January, 32F twice in February.  I started putting the semi hardy foliage pots out in mid February. And there is so much in bloom right now it awesome, native and otherwise blooming early.  Peach tree is almost ready to bloom, other trees are in full bloom. 

Awesome...I hear ya on that...but now is the best time to establish your trees so they get HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGE,  I look forward to seeing your Spring pics!   

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SailorBold

Winter was cold as usual but could have been much worse. The filiferas are damaged and are showing more damage as the weather gets warmer. They are growing pretty fast atm..

Overall the low in my hood was at ~15f (-9C).... same as last year... so Ill take that-  

 

The only thing I have blooming is this messemb... and it has been since late February... earlier than last year by a couple weeks. 

IMAG1691.jpg

IMAG1692.jpg

IMAG1688.jpg

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Best. Winter. Ever. Low at the house was 28F twice this year, 26F at the nursery. Jubaea, butia and med fans grew through the entire winter as we only dipped below freezing less than a dozen times.  Butia, trachycarpus and med fans are already flowering and we'll be in the mid to upper 80's starting Monday.

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Arlington Municipal Airport

A little cooler over there than my house.

November

                                 Max              Avg                    Min  
Temperature  
Max Temperature 84 °F 69 °F 43 °F
Mean Temperature 76 °F 60 °F 41 °F
Min Temperature 71 °F 51 °F 30 °F

December

                                    Max             Avg                Min  
Temperature  
Max Temperature 81 °F 66 °F 41 °F
Mean Temperature 74 °F 54 °F 36 °F
Min Temperature 71 °F 42 °F 30 °F

 

January

                                     Max             Avg                Min  
Temperature  
Max Temperature 78 °F 58 °F 42 °F
Mean Temperature 64 °F 48 °F 35 °F
Min Temperature 54 °F 37 °F 27 °F

 

February

                                        Max               Avg               Min  
Temperature  
Max Temperature 79 °F 67 °F 52 °F
Mean Temperature 72 °F 55 °F 42 °F
Min Temperature 66 °F 43 °F 28 °F

 

 

 

 

 

       
   
       
       
     

 

 

 

 

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Palm crazy
2 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Awesome...I hear ya on that...but now is the best time to establish your trees so they get HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGE,  I look forward to seeing your Spring pics!   

I was thinking of taking some pic of my garden on the first day of spring. Been raining the last two weeks non stop and next weeks looks dry finally. 

That succulent looks awesome, probably not dry enough here for that one. LOL! 

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displaced_floridian
On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2016‎ ‎5‎:‎00‎:‎42‎, pRoeZa* said:

Hello buddy, well Malaga in fact is a 11a climate, as some other zones from the southernmost coast of Spain.

It's not a humid climate, and the humidity it's higher in late summer and autumn, but the winters aren't very humid at all. In fact, Malaga has also semi-arid climate, Cadiz for example is very chilly and humid during all year (Cadiz is in the southernmost part of Spain, the climate of Cadiz is very similar to the climate of San Diego, the average annual temperature is about 18.6ºC/65.5F and all the seasons are mild, with about 3000h of yearly sunshine).

Durban in South Africa for example has similar winter lows but the maximums are above 23ºC in the coldest month (73.4F), it's the place that I've seen with the lowest winter averages that can hold a coconut, but the highs are also warm, the average maximum of the entire winter is about 24ºC (75.2F) in Durban. Malaga I think that it perfectly fits with the climate from Los Angeles. It's mediterranean-subtropical/semi-arid, depending on the zone of the city. In fact, look at how it looks the "Los Angeles Valley" :lol: , it has a totally semi-arid landscape:

ymjw9.png

In the port of Malaga (it applies to the city of Malaga) the normal maximums in Jan. and Feb. are 18-20ºC/64.4-68F while the minimums are 9-11ºC/48.2-51.8F (unless if appears a cold wave or an hot air mass, which usually doesn't get below 6ºC/42.8F in cold waves and above 24ºC/75.2F in hot air masses).

 The official climate chart is from the airport; It's located in a zone which is like a valley where the thermal inversion is significantly bigger than in the city of Malaga, in that climate chart (airport) only 3 months have average maximums under 20ºC/68F, while on the port are bigger; January has 18.8C/65.84F and February has 19.5C/67.1F. The minimums at the airport in January and February (the coldest months) are 7.5C/45.5F 8.2C/46.8F, while on the port January has an average of 9.6ºC/49.3F and February has an average of 10.1ºC/50.2F. January averages 14.2ºC/57.56F and February averages 14.8ºC/58.64F, being the only months with averages under 15ºC/59F in the climate station of the port.

Anyways this 2015-2016 winter was more chilly than normal. The yearly average of the port is about 20ºC/68F but this only happens on the warmest zones, which are very near to the coastline and in the city. The Raphia Finifera didn't get any damage during the winter. 

I don't think that it's possible to grow coconuts on Europe without protection during winters. South California has the indian summers and El Niño phenomenon which gets highs of 25-30ºC/77-86F during various days of the winter, something very good for the coconuts and something impossible in Europe. Even there, with the warm days of the winter the coconuts don't last much winters, and the southernmost coast of California is about at 33ºN, Malaga is at 36º 50'N. 

The coconut of Newport Beach is still alive? The last time I've seen it on the web it was a bit damaged, but still alive. Kind regards John. :greenthumb:

 

Hi Proeza,  sorry to say the Newport Beach coconut died in June of 2014 after living there for over 20 years.  It never did produce fruit. Here's what it looked like in it's last days:

Newport coconut-6-14-dying.jpg

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bubba

Further research on some winters this year with thoughts on coconuts:

CC,Tx. 1010/57;Orl,Fl 1373/60; B'Ville, Tx. 1278/59; Durban, SA 1360/63; LA 876/57; PH,AZ.777/54; Malaga, Sp. 683/57;Malta 664/56; Tel Aviv,Is. 668/54; Paphos, Cyprus 706/55; NO,LA 886/54;Hou, TX 809/53; Palm Springs, Ca.917/56 (Coconut growing) (33/47 N); Perth, Aus. 661/56 (Coconut growing) (31/57S);Port Elizabeth, SA 787/56 (Coconut growing) (33/59S=furthest from the equator); new suspect Beirut, Leb. 917/56 (33/49 N)-Those appear to be very attractive numbers for what would become the furthest N. Coconut in the N. Hemisphere unless CA. Desert can move further N.

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displaced_floridian
On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2016‎ ‎3‎:‎46‎:‎35‎, Cindy Adair said:

Best winter ever for me! In western Puerto Rico at about 900 ft. I need no heat, as the low recorded outside on my porch before dawn was 66 F last September. Next lowest temperature was (many nights) 68 F.

Highest at that spot ( in the shade) was 88 F which I got many times until February. Since then the high probably 85 F.

So only ceiling fans off or on as needed all year round.

Sometimes when it is really "cold" like 70 F or below, I do close the window shutters just to my bedroom at night...

So much better than VA where the average winter low was 20 F and I recall it hitting 0 F one winter. Plus hotter there in the summer.

Plants like the temps here too!

Wow, that sounds like a near-perfect climate.

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SailorBold
22 hours ago, displaced_floridian said:

Hi Proeza,  sorry to say the Newport Beach coconut died in June of 2014 after living there for over 20 years.  It never did produce fruit. Here's what it looked like in it's last days:

Newport coconut-6-14-dying.jpg

Someone needs to plant another one..

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Alicante
On 11/3/2016 20:29:30, bubba said:

Further research on some winters this year with thoughts on coconuts:

CC,Tx. 1010/57;Orl,Fl 1373/60; B'Ville, Tx. 1278/59; Durban, SA 1360/63; LA 876/57; PH,AZ.777/54; Malaga, Sp. 683/57;Malta 664/56; Tel Aviv,Is. 668/54; Paphos, Cyprus 706/55; NO,LA 886/54;Hou, TX 809/53; Palm Springs, Ca.917/56 (Coconut growing) (33/47 N); Perth, Aus. 661/56 (Coconut growing) (31/57S);Port Elizabeth, SA 787/56 (Coconut growing) (33/59S=furthest from the equator); new suspect Beirut, Leb. 917/56 (33/49 N)-Those appear to be very attractive numbers for what would become the furthest N. Coconut in the N. Hemisphere unless CA. Desert can move further N.

Hello Bubba, do you have some photos of the coconut in Port Elizabeth? In 7 years I've never found any photo or information which is not a couple of threads in palmtalk. Those threads/posts also don't include any photo or street view or something to prove that they are planted somewhere.

I've been seeking for it for years. The 1st time I've heard of it was in 2009, but I suspect that Port Elizabeth hasn't got any coconut. 

In South Africa they largely grow on Durban. Port Elizabeth has an annual average of 17.5ºC/63.5F. Here is the climate page.

Beirut can't grow any one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut#Climate 4 months have high averages under 20ºC/68F, while the winter is very wet and chilly.

I think that at this moment, the northernmost confirmed ones (with graphic proves) are on Palm Springs and in Funchal, Madeira.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante
On 10/3/2016 2:39:22, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Proeza,

See my post above.  I think that it's just a little too chilly.  Here on the east side of Corpus Christi, Texas, near the water is the NORTHERNMOST LIMIT of where we can try growing them in Texas.  They are marginal here, but they have been known to grow to maturity and even fruit here between really bad winters.  Here at my place, near the Laguna Madre, I average a soil temp of about 57F for a brief period of about 3 to 4 weeks in January, but by mid Feb. my normal average temps (and thus my soil temps) are usually above 60F, which is the minimal soil temp for a coconut to survive for any length of time.  By late Feb. and early Mar., we have a lot of highs in the '70'sF and 80'sF.  Our normal high/low at the airport now is 74F/55F.  Also, in the summer, our normal highs are in the low to mid 90'sF with lows in the mid to upper 70'sF along with high humidity, which Coconut Palms like.  One advantage that you may have in trying one there is that in the winter (as here) your relative humidity is fairly low and you don't have a lot of rain in the winter (same as here), but in Southern California, they have chilly wet winters.  Winter is the rainy season there, and that is what makes it VERY DIFFICULT to grow a Coconut Palm there.  The Newport Beach palm finally died last year.  It made a good long run though for about 30+ years!

John

well, that climate chart is wrong, I've been skeptic about it because Spring avgs are too low, and yep! They are quite less than in the reality

March maximums are about 21ºC / 69.8F. April maximums are about 23ºC / 73.4F. May maximums about 26ºC / 78.8F and June about 29.5ºC / 85F. Anyways it's impossible to find any coconut in continental Europe nor the islands which are in the Mediterranean Basin. Probably, with a bit of luck as you say; in a place near a building or something where the heat remains, and a good orientation to avoid it from cool winter winds maybe maybe it can survive during the winters in a few points of the southernmost coast of Cyprus or in a few points near Cartagena, or in the zone of Malaga. 

Anyways, if the global warming continues, I think that in 15-20 years we would be able to have them :lol:

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bubba

Proeza, Palmateer  started a topic on Palm Talk on  December 17, 2007 titled "Coconut Growing the farthest from the Equator" . Palmza  of Durban, South Africa (Dennis)  reported "beauties at East London, SA (33S) and OK coconuts at Port Elizabeth, SA (33'59).  Another Palm Talker, Ed 110220 from Cape Town, SA made certain that coconuts  could not be grown in the Mediterranean climate of his city but confirmed the basis of the Port  Elizabeth, SA  microclimate resulting from the warm Algulhas Current  and the fact that mountains near two in parallel to the coast exclude cold air from the Port Elizabeth  location. Additionally, three rivers from the tropical interior converge at the site.  Although no pictures were posted, I think we need to reach out to Dennis and others in this location who are familiar   before we dispel what was reported as fact.  Accordingly, the request is hereby made. 

 Concurrently, a review of the climate of Beiruit, Lebanon  should not be discarded as a viable location for the  growing of a mature coconut. In 2016,  January and February minimum temperatures were 39F and 51F respectively. The  December 2015 minimum temperature was 48F.  A large heat increase  occurs both before and after this short and mild winter time. Additionally, it appears that relative humidity is quite high.  I am completely unfamiliar with this area but the climate is unquestionably a legitimate candidate. I would request IPS members  familiar with this area to weigh in  on what creates this equitable climate  together with opinions regarding possible coconut cultivation. 

 

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palmsOrl
On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2016‎ ‎11‎:‎09‎:‎07‎, RedRabbit said:

I'm comfortable with thinking Orlando and Tampa probably won't see a temperature below 20f again, but we'll probably see 25f... Unfortunately it doesn't matter too much how warm we are 7yrs in a row if we get down into the mid 20s during the 8th year. Taking climate change into consideration, who can really say for sure.

It is kind of odd to think we all have an interest in global warming. I wouldn't mind if Tampa is at 10b in 20yrs and Miami is at 11b, but I've got a feeling that wouldn't come consequence free. 

Agreed.  That is along my lines of thinking.  Yes, we will see mid-20s once or twice per decade, but the extreme record lows of the past (18-21F or so) will not happen in the urban areas like Orlando and Tampa anymore.  10b palms will be multi-year annuals that will last a few years (or more in a few cases) between big freezes and 10a palms will generally survive for many years and become more and more common in landscapes.  I could see downtown Orlando being a technical borderline 10b years from now (average annual minimums 35-36F) and despite the much lower averages than other FL 10b areas, the flora planted in the area will be largely tropical, along with the usual native temperate stuff.

This winter was quite mild as far as our winter minimum temperatures go.  Many 10b palms received mild to moderate damage, though many came through unscathed.  My unprotected triple Christmas palm is spotless.   Ptychosperma sanderianum is another winner.  My Satakentia has shown more damage as time has passed and has lost about 50% of the foliage of the crown.  I only lost one weak Cocos and noticed spear pull on a 1 foot Pinanga coronata last week.  I think it may actually survive.  The betel nut looks rough but has plenty of green left on the foliage and will almost surely survive.  The question is whether it will show reduced growth and vigor going forward.

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RedRabbit
1 hour ago, palmsOrl said:

Agreed.  That is along my lines of thinking.  Yes, we will see mid-20s once or twice per decade, but the extreme record lows of the past (18-21F or so) will not happen in the urban areas like Orlando and Tampa anymore.  10b palms will be multi-year annuals that will last a few years (or more in a few cases) between big freezes and 10a palms will generally survive for many years and become more and more common in landscapes.  I could see downtown Orlando being a technical borderline 10b years from now (average annual minimums 35-36F) and despite the much lower averages than other FL 10b areas, the flora planted in the area will be largely tropical, along with the usual native temperate stuff.

This winter was quite mild as far as our winter minimum temperatures go.  Many 10b palms received mild to moderate damage, though many came through unscathed.  My unprotected triple Christmas palm is spotless.   Ptychosperma sanderianum is another winner.  My Satakentia has shown more damage as time has passed and has lost about 50% of the foliage of the crown.  I only lost one weak Cocos and noticed spear pull on a 1 foot Pinanga coronata last week.  I think it may actually survive.  The betel nut looks rough but has plenty of green left on the foliage and will almost surely survive.  The question is whether it will show reduced growth and vigor going forward.

I'm a little surprised the Satakentia was damaged and not the Adonidia... I was saying in another thread that in Tampa I hadn't seen any damage until last week. I took a little more eastern route to work and all the adonidias had maybe 25% damage and there was a coconut looking less than happy. Overall, it was a great winter. I just planted most of my palms today and I've got about 6 archontophoenix coming next week then I'll be done for this spring. 

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enigma99

El Nino years don't seem to favor California that well. Was pretty chilly, my winter low was 29F but lots of nights at or below freezing. Plus the cold rain... Nov-Jan didn't have many warm days. Good news for us it looks like El Nino might be gone time we get to this winter 

Edited by enigma99

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MattyB

I lucked out on the coldest nights and had a breeze on every one of them.  Turned out to only have an ultimate low of 42f this winter.  Most winters I hit 36f to 38f.

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Pando

It got to 38F for me this winter, with 37F last year. This was in front yard, but probably never got below 40F in the back.

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Josh-O

In Carlsbad I only got down to 42F

at the vista garden I saw temps down to 30F with no frost on any of the plants thanks GOD

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NorCalKing

Bottomed out 25f here late Dec. Did some damage to my Archie. But she's recovering like she's possessed. Unreal how many new fronds have popped.

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knell

The weather here makes absolutely no sense over the next week, record highs then a 20 degree drop into almost January-esque lows in April with rain:

image.jpeg.a96bb2c8ead16ae2e8f9c328f2d1c

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Matthew92

Our mild 9a/9b winter still led to a great bloom of many more northern deciduous trees.

IMG_6830.thumb.JPG.dc776b3b0b2fc8b43a28a

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palmsOrl

Lovely flowers.  We have a number of individual trees I have noted in my area that do not bloom at all after a mild winter, then they leaf out late and just look scraggly and pitiful.  They need those chill hours!

Many of my palms are responding really well to the spring weather and are looking healthier.  I just planted a Neoveitchia and an orange Areca vestiaria.

I do hope we get a few more rain events between now and the start of the rainy season in late May so it doesn't get too terribly dry.

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JEFF IN MODESTO
  • I had a single sub freezing morning this pst winter, the low being 29.9f.... very little damage to anything except just a lil burn on my freshly planted king palm.

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SouthSeaNate

Winter here was mild but also very dry...

Dec: High: 20.2C/68.4F Low: 10.8C/51.4F Av.High: 18.4C/65.1F Av.Low: 14.2C/57.6F Rainfall: 17.4mm

Jan: High: 20.8C/69.4F Low:  8.9C/48.0F  Av.High: 17.5C/63.5F Av.Low: 12.7C/54.9F Rainfall: 19.3mm

Feb: High: 22.6C/72.7F Low: 10.2C/50.4F Av.High: 19.0C/66.2F Av.Low: 14.6C/58.3F Rainfall: 0.6mm

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cm05

"Extreme" but mild sums up this past winter, it was the warmest on record here. Warmest December on record by a pretty large margin. Had virtually no snow until the end of January, then we had a blizzard. A brief but potent cold outbreak in February dropped us down to 0F (-17.8C), which is extreme even by our standards, but luckily there was enough snow on the ground to insulate my zone 7/8 plants so there was very little damage done.

The "extreme" weather has continued into spring, one of the warmest March's on record followed by a cold start to April, had 4 freeze warnings so far this month but tonight should be our last.

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