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knell

Mixing/Splitting Liquid Fertilizer

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knell

I was wondering if anyone has experience with or knows if it is possible to mix your own liquid fertilizers?

There are brands at the hydro store that sell liquid N, P and K by themselves (e.g. 1-0-0)... is it possible to get all three and do blends with other micronutrients? Or do the ratios not transfer like that?

Im guessing it is a lot more work than ordering custom fertilizer but I like the idea of having more control over the mixes.

Im sure there are organic versions of this as well? Thanks in advance.

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Pal Meir

Here the recipe of RPS; good luck! :greenthumb:

56b38de419d06_ProPalmFertilizer.png.572c

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Monòver

Of course!

But it is a lot more work. I think is better buy two different fertilicers. One for example 3-1-2+ micros for spring and summer.

And other 2-1-4+ micros for autumn.

With this you can feed every palms.

I am using in my garden a few different fertilicers, making my own mixed. But you must study the chemical of the fertilicers. For example, you could use ammonium sulfate for put N. It has 21% of N. Easy? Yes, but this has sulfate and with this PH will be low. If your water or soil has high PH, will be perfect, but if you have acidic soil or water or you are growing for example Brahea calcarea, you will have a problem. 

This is only one example. Will be the same with every simple fertlicers. 

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Kai
1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

Here the recipe of RPS; good luck! :greenthumb:

56b38de419d06_ProPalmFertilizer.png.572c

Pal, very informative as always! Thanks. I was wondering why the 5% P2O5 is repeated. Does this simply mean 10% P2O5 or is it a typo?

Also ending with a total percentage of about 60%, I assume the remaining 40% will be water?

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Monòver
2 hours ago, Kai said:

Pal, very informative as always! Thanks. I was wondering why the 5% P2O5 is repeated. Does this simply mean 10% P2O5 or is it a typo?

Also ending with a total percentage of about 60%, I assume the remaining 40% will be water?

P2O5 is not repeated. Only has 5%. And this 5% is water soluble Phosphate. 

 

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Hamal

Do not forget Mg, which should be approximately one third of the K content. However mixing P2O5 and Mg and letting it sit for a period of time is not a good idea, because they will not stay in the solution. Also, trace element chelates are more stable in solid form than in a solution.

The problem with most commercial fertilizers is that they do not contain enough Mg. Fortunately there is a simple and inexpensive solution. I use a fertilizer in powder form and add enough epsom salt, so the K:Mg ratio is about 3:1. Other than the cost, the RPS fertilizer is perfect, even though I would prefer less N and more K.

PS: The P2O5 is repeated, because the total percentage of P in fertilizers is always measured in P2O5 equivalents, which is shown in the first row. The second row contains the actual representation of P in this fertilizer, which happens to be the same (but could theoretically be different).

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knell

Thank you all for the great responses, I cant wait to go to the hydro store tomorrow and see what i can find, as it is quite a wonderland for indoor growing supplies.

I am glad we sell bulk epsom salt at my workplace, so I can get it for 7 cents per ounce. It saved my majesty trio from turning yellow!

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knell
7 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Why the P2O5 is repeated is the secret of RPS :indifferent:http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/accessories/ProPal.shtml

I just noticed they dont ship this outside the EU... looks like Ill be making my own out of necessity! Ill update this thread with a total cost and find out if mixing and blending is worth it (the real test will be during the growing season!).

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PalmatierMeg

I'm curious why it must be liquid fertilizer that you mix yourself. Unless you have an excellent background in chemistry you are in for not just a ton of work with many complicated chemicals but also the possibility that if you make a mistake you could end up burning a valuable plant. What are Cali laws about obtaining and mixing all these chemicals in these tenuous times? Do you live in a residential area and, if so, are there rules about setting up your own fertilizer lab? I know CA is very strict compared to many states. It just seems risky as well as time consuming.

For my potted palms, I use Nutricote/Osmocote 10-10-10 or 13-13-13. They have some minors but I keep on hand Southen Ag Essential Minor Elements in granular form to supplement the majors. That stuff is great - it has more micros in higher concentration than anything else I've found. If you can't find it locally, it is available on-line. Keeping Epsom salts (magnesium) & manganese sulfate on hand won't hurt.

Palms need slow release fertilizer and that comes in pellet form. If someone is determined to use liquid fertilizer he must heavily dilute it and use it more often. More time-consuming work.

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knell
1 minute ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm curious why it must be liquid fertilizer that you mix yourself. Unless you have an excellent background in chemistry you are in for not just a ton of work with many complicated chemicals but also the possibility that if you make a mistake you could end up burning a valuable plant. What are Cali laws about obtaining and mixing all these chemicals in these tenuous times? Do you live in a residential area and, if so, are there rules about setting up your own fertilizer lab? I know CA is very strict compared to many states. It just seems risky as well as time consuming.

For my potted palms, I use Nutricote/Osmocote 10-10-10 or 13-13-13. They have some minors but I keep on hand Southen Ag Essential Minor Elements in granular form to supplement the majors. That stuff is great - it has more micros in higher concentration than anything else I've found. If you can't find it locally, it is available on-line. Keeping Epsom salts (magnesium) & manganese sulfate on hand won't hurt.

Palms need slow release fertilizer and that comes in pellet form. If someone is determined to use liquid fertilizer he must heavily dilute it and use it more often. More time-consuming work.

Thank you for your insight Meg!

Keep in mind this is the potted palm section, not the place for slow release pellets, if youve been following the ways of master Pal.

Again, Im working with potted palms in an indoor, semi-hydroponic environment. This is in the spirit of experimentation, and I want to have more control over the ratios  from season to season. 

It is nearly impossible to find a fert (aside from kelp or alfalfa meal) with low Phosphorus, so blend I will! I am no stranger to hard work and figuring things out, thats why I started this hobby. :)

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Danilopez89
7 hours ago, knell said:

Thank you for your insight Meg!

Keep in mind this is the potted palm section, not the place for slow release pellets, if youve been following the ways of master Pal.

Again, Im working with potted palms in an indoor, semi-hydroponic environment. This is in the spirit of experimentation, and I want to have more control over the ratios  from season to season. 

It is nearly impossible to find a fert (aside from kelp or alfalfa meal) with low Phosphorus, so blend I will! I am no stranger to hard work and figuring things out, thats why I started this hobby. :)

Is having high phosphorus bad for palms?

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knell
31 minutes ago, Danilopez89 said:

Is having high phosphorus bad for palms?

If I study this thread and a couple other resources [Leaser et al], the general consensus is that the consistent mixes contain P at a lower ratio than N / K, typically 3-1-2 + Mg and micro for the growing season, flipping N and K ratios in autumn.

Is high P bad? Im not sure, but it seems lower P is good, for the most part.

This is, of course, a generalization and needs tweaking for each palms habitat requirements/medium.

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Monòver

High Phosphorus is not bad for palms, only, is not necessary.

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NorthFlpalmguy

The only way I'd use the liquid is if injected into my irrigation system for ease of use. The uptake by palms generally isn't fast enough to necessitate a fast release fert. Slow release is normally better.

 

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knell
1 hour ago, NorthFlpalmguy said:

The only way I'd use the liquid is if injected into my irrigation system for ease of use. The uptake by palms generally isn't fast enough to necessitate a fast release fert. Slow release is normally better.

 

What sort of irrigation system do you have for your potted palms?

Do you mind sharing photos of your setup? It might even warrant its own thread so we can conpare and contrast.

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NorthFlpalmguy
59 minutes ago, knell said:

What sort of irrigation system do you have for your potted palms?

Do you mind sharing photos of your setup? It might even warrant its own thread so we can conpare and contrast.

I just use basic overhead irrigation with sprinklers, nothing fancy. I do remember a member here (or another landscape forum) having a fert mixer/injector on their drip system. 

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PalmatierMeg

I got it: the spirit of experimentation. And that might go well in CA where summers are hot & dry. I'm not so sure about FL. We sometimes get copious rain that can flush away liquid fertilizer before palm has a chance to access it. I'm not sure why specially formulated time-release pellets are so harmful, as long as user follows directions or even skimps on amounts. It's hard enough to find time to fertilizer my palms 2-3 times per season, much less than every week or two with liquid I have to mix myself. But you are motivated and I applaud your efforts.

Lots of phosphorus is recommended for flowering trees like hibiscus or trumpets (nitrogen for green growth, potassium for root development - perhaps a bit simplified, I know). Palms aren't grown for their flowers. My Cape Coral dreck soil is very high in phosphorus (it is mined inland) and very low in potassium. I have to buy fertilizer carefully for my in-ground palms. Not so with potted palms but I still don't want too much P.

Another issue we have here is the annual fertilizer blackout from June 1 through Oct 1 - no nitrogen or phosphorus allowed during rainy season to cut down on water pollution. As I am on a freshwater canal, I take the ban seriously, even for my potted plants. That's the time I go with potassium, magnesium and Essential Minor Elements.

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