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Mr. Coconut Palm

Northenmost and Southernmost FRUITING Conconut Palms

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Mr. Coconut Palm
23 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Keith that Fiji looks wonderful, has always been one of my favorite varieties of coconut palms! 

Pedro, I love the look of it too, especially when they are mature with their big round robust crown of leaves atop a large curving swollen short trunk, but they are just way too cold sensitive for me to try them in a marginal coconut area to begin with.

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Palmaceae
5 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Randy,

White fly is something I fortunately haven't had to deal with.  It looks like scale to me.  How do white flies differ since it looks the same as scale?

John

John,

Here in Florida we have a problem with spirialing white fly, not just on coconuts but other palms too, but mostly on coconuts. They are easy to see as you will see the spirialing underneath the leaflets. Then when it gets bad enough you will start seeing the sooty mold covering the leaflets. I seen coconuts so bad that the entire fronds are black with sooty mold.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 hour ago, Palmaceae said:

John,

Here in Florida we have a problem with spirialing white fly, not just on coconuts but other palms too, but mostly on coconuts. They are easy to see as you will see the spirialing underneath the leaflets. Then when it gets bad enough you will start seeing the sooty mold covering the leaflets. I seen coconuts so bad that the entire fronds are black with sooty mold.

Randy,

That sounds as bad as the sooty mold I have on the leaves of my Mexican Lime.  The leaves are black with it.  Have you noticed as Keith said above that some of his Coconut Palms are really affected, others are somewhat affected, and then others aren't affected at all?

John

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Palmaceae
13 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Randy,

That sounds as bad as the sooty mold I have on the leaves of my Mexican Lime.  The leaves are black with it.  Have you noticed as Keith said above that some of his Coconut Palms are really affected, others are somewhat affected, and then others aren't affected at all?

John

Here in my yard I just spray often for white fly before they get a foot hold. I have not really noticed one variety of coconut that get them more than others in my yard. At least in my yard white fly is an equal opportunity offender ;)

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Mr. Coconut Palm
19 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

John,

Here in Florida we have a problem with spirialing white fly, not just on coconuts but other palms too, but mostly on coconuts. They are easy to see as you will see the spirialing underneath the leaflets. Then when it gets bad enough you will start seeing the sooty mold covering the leaflets. I seen coconuts so bad that the entire fronds are black with sooty mold.

Randy,

That sounds as bad as the sooty mold I have on the leaves of my Mexican Lime.  Have you noticed as Keith said above

 

I guess I am fortunate that I haven't had a problem with them.  The sooty mold on my Mexican Lime I think is caused by something else.  I have only seen it on my lime and a nearby Oleander.

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bubba

Bermuda at N. 32.40 longitude definitely has fruiting coconuts. I am not certain of the longitude of Maderia but believe it is further North and believe the stunted small coconuts still qualify. Obviously, the La Quinta, Ca. coconut at N. 33.67 should qualify as the new record for fruiting coconut in the North. Given the extremely healthy nature of this coconut, it is hard  to believe that additional coconuts    (including those that are fruiting)  have not been located. 

Port Elizabeth,  South Africa at S. 33.573  is the current leader for the  furthest  coconut from the equator in the southern hemisphere. This results from the warm Agulhas Current  that brings warm waters down with coast from the tropics together with mountains near and parallel to the coast that exclude cold air from the interior.  I am uncertain whether or not the coconuts in Port Elizabeth produce coconuts or not but recall pictures that  demonstrated them to be healthy. 

 I still believe that the furthest  coconut from the equator has not been determined conclusively.  Potential suspects exist  in the Azores at 37N in  shielded locations using the warm volcanic soil and taking advantage of the extremely warm Gulfstream.  Other candidates include the Greek Islands and Cyprus. This is truly the quest for the holy grail!

 

 

 

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Cluster

I would like to see that coconut in Port Elizabeth has it has never been shown:(, searched for it everywhere but no single picture. Azores waters are way colder than Madeira during the winter(15/16 c vs 19c at the moment, maybe it still works though), yes Madeira is further north than Bermuda, almost at 33, while Porto Santo is at 33 also with cocos. The Madeira coconuts are public, unprotected and are trimmed every few months :\. Hopefully one day I will be able to convince them to stop it.

The la Quinta coco looked nice.

Edited by Cluster

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bubba

 La Quinta, Ca. is  latitude 33.40 degrees North. I googled it and it described  latitude as 33.67. Obviously this makes no sense. Accordingly, it appears that the Port Elizabeth, South Africa coconut remains the current furthest coconut from the I equator. I  do not know if these coconuts produce fruit. 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎11‎:‎26‎, Cluster said:

No one uses Jackets during the long summer (july to october), only an odd day I would say, the still nights are during all the year. It only rains like 24.693 inches, the problem is July August and September are dry a reason why I think the coconuts look better there during winter :bummed:. If left alone I would guess the northern coast could suit them well, it does rain more there and the temperatures are not that much lower with the lows being the same.

For reference Ponta do sol (one of the southwest zones) in the warmest months will have 82.4 + high and 69 min.

I will tell you a very sad story about a coconut, which I heard by chances this last summer. So I went to a house in a privileged warm area (used for most banana exportation and tropical fruits) in which the owner had 14 different types of Mango and 16 of banana. I had to ask him, why do you not try a coconut to complement?! Apparently that was the plan, he brought one from Brazil, but he had to ask a friend to take care of it while he built the house or something. The coconut went to the northern coast near the sea, where it rooted with no issues and started to grow, some months later he asked the friend to take the coconut to the house in the southwest coast, apparently the friend ripped the roots of the coconut and soon it died in its new home with the best climate possible:(.

Pedro,

That is a very sad story.  I guess the moral of that story is too only ask a friend who is really into plants like all of us on here to take care of one of your most important plants like that.  Also, another common mistake people make with Coconut Palms is the way they handle them when they are little.  A lot of inexperienced and unthinking people will grab the palm by the trunk when it is still very young, often breaking off the connection point to the nut inside when its roots haven't sufficiently developed and it still nees the highly nutritious water inside to grow.  People should always move a young potted Coconut Palm by handling the pot with both hands and not grabbing the young trunk, and when planting it, always handle it by the root ball and not the trunk.  My wife helps me plant mine.  I will gently hit the pot on all sides with the fleshy part of my hand by my little finger to loosen it up the root ball and then turn the pot over on its side and hand it to my wife, and she will turn the pot somewhat upside down and gently shake it while I have both hands on the root ball adjacent to the husk to keep the palm from suddenly sliding out of the pot and getting crushed on the ground under the weight of its own root ball.  As the root ball slides out of the pot, I carefully turn it over and set it upright in the planting hole to plant it.

John

P.S.  How does your beautiful island look so green with so little rainfall?  The Rio Grand Valley of Texas averages a little more rain than your island yet looks a lot more brown and dried up most of the time than your island.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Here's some info about the white-fly.

http://lee.ifas.ufl.edu/Hort/GardenPubsAZ/Rugose.pdf

 

Thanks, Keith.  When I first started getting into palms and tropical plants, especially Coconut Palms, I got a lot of informative info from IFAS and the Florida Extension Sevice sent to me back when they would pack it up and mail it in manila envelope (in the early and mid 80's).

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Mr. Coconut Palm
2 hours ago, bubba said:

Bermuda at N. 32.40 longitude definitely has fruiting coconuts. I am not certain of the longitude of Maderia but believe it is further North and believe the stunted small coconuts still qualify. Obviously, the La Quinta, Ca. coconut at N. 33.67 should qualify as the new record for fruiting coconut in the North. Given the extremely healthy nature of this coconut, it is hard  to believe that additional coconuts    (including those that are fruiting)  have not been located. 

Port Elizabeth,  South Africa at S. 33.573  is the current leader for the  furthest  coconut from the equator in the southern hemisphere. This results from the warm Agulhas Current  that brings warm waters down with coast from the tropics together with mountains near and parallel to the coast that exclude cold air from the interior.  I am uncertain whether or not the coconuts in Port Elizabeth produce coconuts or not but recall pictures that  demonstrated them to be healthy. 

 I still believe that the furthest  coconut from the equator has not been determined conclusively.  Potential suspects exist  in the Azores at 37N in  shielded locations using the warm volcanic soil and taking advantage of the extremely warm Gulfstream.  Other candidates include the Greek Islands and Cyprus. This is truly the quest for the holy grail!

 

 

 

Keith,

I think it should be possible to grow some of the more cold hardy tall varieties on the southernmost sides of Cyprus, Crete, Malta, possibly Sicily, and maybe even Gibraltar in sheltered microclimates.  As far south as Malta is, it shouldn't be a problem at all, especially on the south side of the island.  I would think that it is far enough south in the Mediterranean and close enough to the African coast to have just enough winter time heat to make it the most likely spot for one to actually grow halfway decently.

John

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Cluster

John to answer your question why the island looks green.

The island is small but very varied, you have many types of microclimates, you can see snow while hugging a coconut with 68f. The south coast is totally different from the northern coast and even the mountains are so different, there is an area there that is close to being considered a desert in terms of rainfall and resembles marrocos or something, while others have giant Mountains and are green resembling Hawaii. There are zones there where it rains more than 3000 mm (118 inches), another factor is the humidity, a lot of the water retained by the forests and plants is due to the humidity.

As an example the "almost desert area" southeast:

018893f19054d1980f5d76cf7aae043c

This part is similar with how Porto Santo (also known as the golden island) looks.

 

By contrast the northern coast:

Madeira%202006%20181.jpg

74990220.jpg

Full of waterfall and green mountains. For this reason I think a public coconut (that gets zero to few water) would maybe look better in the northern parts of the island that have some sun.

Now look at the peaks, it is a rocky spiky mountains it looks more menacing, my friends told me it is the "mordor" of Madeira:

pico_do_arieiro___portugal__madeira_by_a

 

The central zones also have their charm:

cropAlignTop-1280-800-mad_vereda_25fonte

Madeira_Island_Mountains.jpg

 

The reason why the south is a lot drier and all these microclimates is in part due to the mountain ridge that covers the island from one point to the other. The clouds come from the north and are squeezed against those mountains, leaving the south with more sun and less rain. The smaller islands of Azores sometimes, but rarely, do have issues with water during the summer (needing to ask water form the other islands) despite raining a lot more than Madeira on average, though Madeira does not suffer from this due to the constant water in those areas I mentioned before.

Edited by Cluster
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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 hour ago, Cluster said:

John to answer your question why the island looks green.

The island is small but very varied, you have many types of microclimates, you can see snow while hugging a coconut with 68f. The south coast is totally different from the northern coast and even the mountains are so different, there is an area there that is close to being considered a desert in terms of rainfall and resembles marrocos or something, while others have giant Mountains and are green resembling Hawaii. There are zones there where it rains more than 3000 mm (118 inches), another factor is the humidity, a lot of the water retained by the forests and plants is due to the humidity.

As an example the "almost desert area" southeast:

018893f19054d1980f5d76cf7aae043c

This part is similar with how Porto Santo (also known as the golden island) looks.

 

By contrast the northern coast:

Madeira%202006%20181.jpg

74990220.jpg

Full of waterfall and green mountains. For this reason I think a public coconut (that gets zero to few water) would maybe look better in the northern parts of the island that have some sun.

Now look at the peaks, it is a rocky spiky mountains it looks more menacing, my friends told me it is the "mordor" of Madeira:

pico_do_arieiro___portugal__madeira_by_a

 

The central zones also have their charm:

cropAlignTop-1280-800-mad_vereda_25fonte

Madeira_Island_Mountains.jpg

 

The reason why the south is a lot drier and all these microclimates is in part due to the mountain ridge that covers the island from one point to the other. The clouds come from the north and are squeezed against those mountains, leaving the south with more sun and less rain. The smaller islands of Azores sometimes, but rarely, do have issues with water during the summer (needing to ask water form the other islands) despite raining a lot more than Madeira on average, though Madeira does not suffer from this due to the constant water in those areas I mentioned before.

Pedro,

Wow, what an island!  It is very beautiful.  The northern coast sure looks like the green cliffs of Hawaii.  But even in the Hawaiian Islands, where they have abundant rainfall, I think there is an arid almost desert like area on the Big Island (Hawaii Island), and yet on the opposite side of the island it is tropical rainforest.

By the way, I sure love the water effect.  Last hour, it was very chilly outside (calm and clear night) here at my place, 43.5F and I was afraid as dry as it is after the cold front earlier that my yard was going to drop down to the mid to upper 30'sF, but no, all of sudden the breeze kicked in off the water, and within about 45 minutes right before midnight the temp jumped up to 48.3F!  If the breeze off the water continues throughout the night, the temp by day break may be about 52F or 53F!  That's the water effect for you in the winter time.  I love it for us Zone Pushers growing cold tender tropicals in marginal climates!

John

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Cluster

Wow that is quite a drastic change in such small time! I love the water effect as well.

Speaking of water, do coconuts really need a lot of water to fruit? If that is the case and I do get a coconut for our garden, maybe watering it a bit even in the winter might be good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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bubba

Pedro, Your  pictures of Madeira are staggering. I hope it  remains unblemished and relatively undeveloped. It's unique location in the warm waters of the Gulfstream make it a  phenomenal location for high latitude cocconuts.  It's beauty makes it  a certain travel  destination. Do you have any golf courses?

  John, I greatly admire your enthusiasm. I have always enjoyed the Texas perspective on all things tropical,  including but not limited to coconuts. I recently met a gentleman who grew up in an agricultural family from Weslaco and who is interested in palms and intend to show him around here.

Keith, High Honors on your knowledge and dedication to the coconut and your outstanding contributions. They are greatly appreciated.

The Board had a great contributor,Dennis from SA, who revealed the Port Elizabeth, SA coconuts together with the warm currents and shielding mountains that produce the perfect climate. It would be great to receive updates.

 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
2 hours ago, Cluster said:

Wow that is quite a drastic change in such small time! I love the water effect as well.

Speaking of water, do coconuts really need a lot of water to fruit? If that is the case and I do get a coconut for our garden, maybe watering it a bit even in the winter might be good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pedro,

I have read that for them to do well (the palms) they need at least 40 inches of rainfall per year.  That does not mean that they won't do well in other areas with less rainfall as long as they are given supplemental watering, which is evident by the relatively nice looking Coconut Palms in Madeira, the Rio Grande Valley, and Salton Sea area of Southern California.  However, I have not read anything about what the minimum amount of water is for decent nut production.  I would assume to get decent nut production at least about 45 inches per year would be a good starting point, fairly distributed throughout the year, with of course less water applied during the cooler winter months to prevent the chilly damp root effect that they don't like (which is more of a problem for us in South Texas and those growing them in Southern California, but I would still caution Madeirans to still taper off on winter time watering, since Madeira is at the low end temp wise of what Coconut Palms can bear for optimal growth).  I have seen mature Jamaican Talls in Key West with full sized nuts on them in areas that probably don't get much if any supplemental watering, and their annual average rainfall is about 39 inches per year.  I don't know how many of these nuts have an adequate amount of coconut water and thus are fully viable compared to areas like Miami that average about 60 inches per year, but my best guess would be that the nuts on trees in the Miami are have more water in them and there are a higher percentage of nuts that are fully viable for growing more palms than you would have with the nuts from palms in Key West.  I have also seen photos of a few Coconut Palms (presumably Jamaican Talls growing in the courtyard area of Ft. Jefferson National Monument in the Dry Tortugas.  I assume that the islands there (at the far west end of the Florida Keys about 70 miles west of Key West) are so named because they are even drier than Key West.  If I had to guess, the Dry Tortugas probably don't get more than 34 or 35 inches of rainfall per year, and I doubt very seriously if the park rangers who work there apply any supplemental watering to the palms.  The photos I have seen of them are aerial photos so, it was impossible for me to tell if they have nuts on them or not.  They probably do have nuts on them, but fewer and with less water content than the ones in Key West.  the palms also appeared to be shorter than the ones in Key West, again, probably from less rainfall, but the fact that they are growing there at all, makes me wonder if 150 to 200 years ago there might have been a few naturally growing Mexican Tall Coconut Palms along the beach at Boca Chica where the Rio Grande Delta is.  I think this because I have an idea that the Valley back then before the massive clear cutting of the extensive native palm and subtropical forest along the river for agricultural purposes that took place in the late 1800's and early 1900's had a significantly higher rainfall rate than now.  Now the Valley averages about 22 to 27 inches per year, with the higher amounts closer to the coast around Harlingen.  I think back many years ago that the Valley probably averaged about 29 to 34 inches per year, with all the native forest intact, and with the lower part of the Valley being 10A and the beach at the delta being 10B or borderline 10B many winters, it is entirely possible and maybe even likely that a few nuts occasionally sprouted after washing up there and grew into mature palms. Nuts here at North Padre Island have been known to sprout on the beach before someone picks them up and takes them home.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
Just now, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Pedro,

I have read that for them to do well (the palms) they need at least 40 inches of rainfall per year.  That does not mean that they won't do well in other areas with less rainfall as long as they are given supplemental watering, which is evident by the relatively nice looking Coconut Palms in Madeira, the Rio Grande Valley, and Salton Sea area of Southern California.  However, I have not read anything about what the minimum amount of water is for decent nut production.  I would assume to get decent nut production at least about 45 inches per year would be a good starting point, fairly distributed throughout the year, with of course less water applied during the cooler winter months to prevent the chilly damp root effect that they don't like (which is more of a problem for us in South Texas and those growing them in Southern California, but I would still caution Madeirans to still taper off on winter time watering, since Madeira is at the low end temp wise of what Coconut Palms can bear for optimal growth).  I have seen mature Jamaican Talls in Key West with full sized nuts on them in areas that probably don't get much if any supplemental watering, and their annual average rainfall is about 39 inches per year.  I don't know how many of these nuts have an adequate amount of coconut water and thus are fully viable compared to areas like Miami that average about 60 inches per year, but my best guess would be that the nuts on trees in the Miami are have more water in them and there are a higher percentage of nuts that are fully viable for growing more palms than you would have with the nuts from palms in Key West.  I have also seen photos of a few Coconut Palms (presumably Jamaican Talls growing in the courtyard area of Ft. Jefferson National Monument in the Dry Tortugas.  I assume that the islands there (at the far west end of the Florida Keys about 70 miles west of Key West) are so named because they are even drier than Key West.  If I had to guess, the Dry Tortugas probably don't get more than 34 or 35 inches of rainfall per year, and I doubt very seriously if the park rangers who work there apply any supplemental watering to the palms.  The photos I have seen of them are aerial photos so, it was impossible for me to tell if they have nuts on them or not.  They probably do have nuts on them, but fewer and with less water content than the ones in Key West.  the palms also appeared to be shorter than the ones in Key West, again, probably from less rainfall, but the fact that they are growing there at all, makes me wonder if 150 to 200 years ago there might have been a few naturally growing Mexican Tall Coconut Palms along the beach at Boca Chica where the Rio Grande Delta is.  I think this because I have an idea that the Valley back then before the massive clear cutting of the extensive native palm and subtropical forest along the river for agricultural purposes that took place in the late 1800's and early 1900's had a significantly higher rainfall rate than now.  Now the Valley averages about 22 to 27 inches per year, with the higher amounts closer to the coast around Harlingen.  I think back many years ago that the Valley probably averaged about 29 to 34 inches per year, with all the native forest intact, and with the lower part of the Valley being 10A and the beach at the delta being 10B or borderline 10B many winters, it is entirely possible and maybe even likely that a few nuts occasionally sprouted after washing up there and grew into mature palms. Nuts here at North Padre Island have been known to sprout on the beach before someone picks them up and takes them home.

John

By the way, that theory that I have about the increased rainfall many years ago in the RGV, was confirmed by a professor from UT Brownsville that came and gave a talk to us Palm Society members about a year ago at the Texas Sabal Palm Grove Sanctuary on the southeast side of Brownsville.  He confirmed what I was saying about the increased rainfall in the RGV when the native subtropical palm forest was still intact many years ago, as that whole area was know to have periodic, if not annual flooding of the region, and is how the resacas got formed when the river channel would change its course during such flooding events, and then leave behind the oxbow lakes (resacas) that are such highly valued and sought after areas of real estate for homes now.  Fortunately, for about 20 years now, there has been a big push to restore a fairly long strip, a "green belt" of native vegetation along the river for many miles from northwest up the river from the Mission area all the way down to the delta south and east of Brownsville.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
1 hour ago, bubba said:

Pedro, Your  pictures of Madeira are staggering. I hope it  remains unblemished and relatively undeveloped. It's unique location in the warm waters of the Gulfstream make it a  phenomenal location for high latitude cocconuts.  It's beauty makes it  a certain travel  destination. Do you have any golf courses?

  John, I greatly admire your enthusiasm. I have always enjoyed the Texas perspective on all things tropical,  including but not limited to coconuts. I recently met a gentleman who grew up in an agricultural family from Weslaco and who is interested in palms and intend to show him around here.

Keith, High Honors on your knowledge and dedication to the coconut and your outstanding contributions. They are greatly appreciated.

The Board had a great contributor,Dennis from SA, who revealed the Port Elizabeth, SA coconuts together with the warm currents and shielding mountains that produce the perfect climate. It would be great to receive updates.

 

Keith,

Thanks for the compliment.  If you are interested in the "Tropical Tip of Texas" aka "Texas Tropics" as it is also called, look at my response to Pedro's comment about the availability of water and the fruiting of coconuts.  That's interesting about the man from Weslaco, which is inside the coconut belt in the Valley.  Several months ago, a man from Southern California contacted me about an uncle of his who has 10 acres he is going to start farming.  He told his uncle about me and that he should consider planting some Coconut Palms there.  We got in touch and he is planning on planting some there this spring with my help.  I will try to get a few different varieties for him to try.  The tall varieties like the Mexican Tall do fine there, but that is pretty far inland to try the Malayan Dwarfs due to chillier nights and a higher possibility of frosts or an occasional freeze there than in the Lower Valley near Brownsville.  I have however, heard of Malayan Dwarfs being grown as far inland as Weslaco, by the way, and I personally planted a Green Malayan Dwarf in a friend's backyard in Donna, just west of Weslaco, a few years ago.  Unfortunately, she had cancer and died shortly there after, so I don't know if her children sold the home or if anyone is taking care of the palm, since in the semi arid Valley, they need supplemental watering throughout the year.

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
Just now, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Keith,

Thanks for the compliment.  If you are interested in the "Tropical Tip of Texas" aka "Texas Tropics" as it is also called, look at my response to Pedro's comment about the availability of water and the fruiting of coconuts.  That's interesting about the man from Weslaco, which is inside the coconut belt in the Valley.  Several months ago, a man from Southern California contacted me about an uncle of his who has 10 acres he is going to start farming.  He told his uncle about me and that he should consider planting some Coconut Palms there.  We got in touch and he is planning on planting some there this spring with my help.  I will try to get a few different varieties for him to try.  The tall varieties like the Mexican Tall do fine there, but that is pretty far inland to try the Malayan Dwarfs due to chillier nights and a higher possibility of frosts or an occasional freeze there than in the Lower Valley near Brownsville.  I have however, heard of Malayan Dwarfs being grown as far inland as Weslaco, by the way, and I personally planted a Green Malayan Dwarf in a friend's backyard in Donna, just west of Weslaco, a few years ago.  Unfortunately, she had cancer and died shortly there after, so I don't know if her children sold the home or if anyone is taking care of the palm, since in the semi arid Valley, they need supplemental watering throughout the year.

John

By the way, I forgot to mention that his uncle's place is in McAllen, which is pretty far inland for the Malayans, but who knows, maybe we could get a couple to survive there.  Depending on his budget, I was thinking of trying a pure Mexican Tall or two if we can get them, a couple of Maymex hybrids, which we can easily sprout from coconuts collected off the beach at Padre Island, a Jamaican Tall or two, a Maypan or two, and a Green Hawaiian Tall, since they are supposed to be more cold and chilly and damp weather resistant than the other varieties.  Also, just for the heck of it, trying some Malayans too.  Trying all these may take a few years thought, since acquiring all these at one time is certainly out of my budget and may be out of his too.

John

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Zeeth
43 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I have seen mature Jamaican Talls in Key West with full sized nuts on them in areas that probably don't get much if any supplemental watering, and their annual average rainfall is about 39 inches per year.  I don't know how many of these nuts have an adequate amount of coconut water and thus are fully viable compared to areas like Miami that average about 60 inches per year, but my best guess would be that the nuts on trees in the Miami are have more water in them and there are a higher percentage of nuts that are fully viable for growing more palms than you would have with the nuts from palms in Key West.  I have also seen photos of a few Coconut Palms (presumably Jamaican Talls growing in the courtyard area of Ft. Jefferson National Monument in the Dry Tortugas.  I assume that the islands there (at the far west end of the Florida Keys about 70 miles west of Key West) are so named because they are even drier than Key West.  If I had to guess, the Dry Tortugas probably don't get more than 34 or 35 inches of rainfall per year, and I doubt very seriously if the park rangers who work there apply any supplemental watering to the palms. 

 

One to remember is that the Keys sit on a freshwater lens, so the palms there have easy access to ground-water.

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Mr. Coconut Palm
21 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

 

One to remember is that the Keys sit on a freshwater lens, so the palms there have easy access to ground-water.

Thanks, Keith.  I didn't know that.  Does it extend all the way out to the Tortugas?

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Zeeth

I'm not sure. I would imagine that they would at least have access to saltwater though, considering the island's small size. You're right about rainfall though, Dry Tortugas only gets 36" per year. 

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Cluster
5 hours ago, bubba said:

Pedro, Your  pictures of Madeira are staggering. I hope it  remains unblemished and relatively undeveloped. It's unique location in the warm waters of the Gulfstream make it a  phenomenal location for high latitude cocconuts.  It's beauty makes it  a certain travel  destination. Do you have any golf courses?

  John, I greatly admire your enthusiasm. I have always enjoyed the Texas perspective on all things tropical,  including but not limited to coconuts. I recently met a gentleman who grew up in an agricultural family from Weslaco and who is interested in palms and intend to show him around here.

Keith, High Honors on your knowledge and dedication to the coconut and your outstanding contributions. They are greatly appreciated.

The Board had a great contributor,Dennis from SA, who revealed the Port Elizabeth, SA coconuts together with the warm currents and shielding mountains that produce the perfect climate. It would be great to receive updates.

 

Hello Keith, thank you

I am glad you enjoyed this island which you did not know, the photos were not taken by me just to be clear, though I have been posting many taken by me/us on the Madeira thread:). The island has very developed areas (city of Funchal being the most) with a lot of gardens and flowers, but also you have easy access to untouched/barely touched nature in a matter of minutes and there is a lot to explore in those protected areas. I like this combo to be honest! Many centuries ago they built aqueducts to bring water from the north to the south. These paths called levadas are one of the main attractions of Madeira and enables people to travel in the heart of the island with only nature, the unesco protected and endemic laurisilva forest as it was when we arrived. Many Kms/miles of them.

As an example of a levada:795445.jpg

 

I do not understand much about Golf but it is something quite famous there, 2 courses with great views and one more recent in Porto Santo (the northern most island of the archipelago where we have found cocos as well!). If I recall correctly the european gold tour also takes place there.

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Cluster

Hello John

Thanks for the detailed answer, so if the coconuts in Madeira are given enough water the palms will probably keep them and not abort them and they will grow bigger/have more water in theory? In the south it does not rain much during those 3 months (though don't worry it rains a lot more than the southeast desert zone I showed you before:) it is between the northern coast and the southeast in terms of rain and lushness) I think they might benefit a lot more from water with such water requirements.

The zone in RGV reminds of the south coast of Madeira, it is said the island was a lot greener in the south before we arrived there and so it had a lot more rain and humidity associated with it. Madeira actually means wood in portuguese and the "legend" says we burned the island when we arrived because it was too dense, though some say that is just a myth. 

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Mr. Coconut Palm
22 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Hello John

Thanks for the detailed answer, so if the coconuts in Madeira are given enough water the palms will probably keep them and not abort them and they will grow bigger/have more water in theory? In the south it does not rain much during those 3 months (though don't worry it rains a lot more than the southeast desert zone I showed you before:) it is between the northern coast and the southeast in terms of rain and lushness) I think they might benefit a lot more from water with such water requirements.

The zone in RGV reminds of the south coast of Madeira, it is said the island was a lot greener in the south before we arrived there and so it had a lot more rain and humidity associated with it. Madeira actually means wood in portuguese and the "legend" says we burned the island when we arrived because it was too dense, though some say that is just a myth. 

Hey Pedro,

That is really interesting.  I love history too.  My mother was a history teacher and my father was interested in it also.  Considering Madeira's position in the Atlantic, I could see how it originally had significantly more rainfall, especially on the south side of the island like you said.  I wish I could have seen many areas in their pristine condition like that.  I wish I could have seen the Everglades and Florida in its pristine condition.  By the way, I don't remember if I have asked you this before, but are there any coral reefs along the southern coast of Madeira?  It seems like the water temps stay warm enough in the winter time for the more cold hardy tropical corals like star coral to grow there?

John

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Mr. Coconut Palm
6 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Hey again John,

Yes you can find black coral in certain areas, Antipathella Wollastron. Take a look this spanish page:http://www.checkthesea.com/2015/03/gerardia-macaronesica.html

 

 

Pedro,

That's beautiful.  I am a certified diver, but now I just go snorkeling in the spring, summer, and fall.  It looks like there is good diving and snorkeling around Madeira and the Canaries also.

John

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Greg56

Hi all, 

Just a random thought on this interesting topic (I'm NOT any sort of expert!) Would Southern Japan be a candidate for "high latitude" coconut palms, with it's impressively warm ocean currents? Welcome your thoughts. (I've not been there yet, but am curious)

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kinzyjr
1 hour ago, Greg56 said:

Hi all, 

Just a random thought on this interesting topic (I'm NOT any sort of expert!) Would Southern Japan be a candidate for "high latitude" coconut palms, with it's impressively warm ocean currents? Welcome your thoughts. (I've not been there yet, but am curious)

@palmfriend is probably the resident expert in this area.  Welcome to PalmTalk!

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palmfriend

@Greg56 Hi, welcome to palmtalk!

Since I am located on Miyako island I can not speak for whole Okinawa 

but what I have found out so far I have published here on pt. 

I hope it helps to get an impression.

regards

Lars

 

  • Upvote 1

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Tyrone

On the west coast of Oz I’ve seen them fruiting at Dongara just south of Geraldton. In the 29s south so not quite 30S. 

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The Palm Nut

On the east coast of Australia at a place called South West Rocks which is about 60 km north of Port Macquarie produces coconuts, I have seen them but are they viable? Have no idea but on a good year its possible. I have seen one at Coffs Harbour 30 plus feet with nuts on it, viable? Coffs Harbour is about 150 Km north of Port.

839950933_IMG_20211219_1652091.thumb.jpg.5033245ccbd233b089d29bf5188a5f50.jpg

These pictures where taken off Google maps.

Cheers

Mike

 

IMG_20211217_125604.jpg

IMG_20211217_125633.jpg

IMG_20211219_165258[1].jpg

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Tyrone
6 hours ago, The Palm Nut said:

On the east coast of Australia at a place called South West Rocks which is about 60 km north of Port Macquarie produces coconuts, I have seen them but are they viable? Have no idea but on a good year its possible. I have seen one at Coffs Harbour 30 plus feet with nuts on it, viable? Coffs Harbour is about 150 Km north of Port.

839950933_IMG_20211219_1652091.thumb.jpg.5033245ccbd233b089d29bf5188a5f50.jpg

These pictures where taken off Google maps.

Cheers

Mike

 

IMG_20211217_125604.jpg

IMG_20211217_125633.jpg

IMG_20211219_165258[1].jpg

Yes I think 30 degrees south is roughly where they start to fruit at least in Australia. 

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