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Chamaedorea tuerckheimii in Pots


Pal Meir

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@stone jaguar I would like to add an explanation why I had stopped using coffee brew. Once when I saw some spider mites on the underside of new leaves I did not spray the coffee solution but soaked the plants upside down in coffee brew. After a couple of days I noticed that the soaking treatment must have been too strong for the young seedling because margins of the weak new leaves got brown (e.g. leaf #3 and #4 of plant N°1502). Since that time I did nothing, only spraying the leaves with pure water (from a fountain which I use for watering too). So far the palms produced nice new leaves (e.g. #5, 6 and 7 of N°1502). As the palms are placed on a window sill facing NNE since late May the (weak) evening sun reaches also that window sill, the Lytocaryum itapebiense and … the Ch tuerckheimii. My fault was that I did not control the undersides of the leaves with a stronger magnifier after having noticed that the colour of the leaves was lighter than before ………

593aef4452e51_N15022017-06-09P1030712.th

593aef4825afc_N15022017-06-09P1030713.th

 

Pal’s inspection was not diligent enough, could it be that he needs glasses?

593aef4bec84a_ChtuerckheimP1030522.thumb

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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2 hours ago, stone jaguar said:

Not to take away from your obviously excellent pest control so far, Kai, but you should be aware that many predatory mite genera can be aerially dispersed (so this is good!), just like spider mites (but this is bad!). Any air movement in the same building and either type can float both around and out of the space. Ditto from the route inside from the outside with open windows and doors. Your "wet" undercanopy environment is also a major cultural plus.

I'm learning so much here! Thank you again!

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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I too am enjoying learning more than I could hope to know about spider mites!

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Here's my gang of 4. I believe I have 2 of each "sub" species. These live in the shadows & not in a greenhouse. I do spray the leaf undersides with a soap/water mix weekly though. Anyone know what micronutrient the one with the ZZZZZ leaf pattern is lacking? Boron?

 

Thanks, Randy

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"If you need me, I'll be outside" -Randy Wiesner Palm Beach County, Florida Zone 10Bish

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Randy, nice job with tricky plant. Yes, you have some mild nutritional deficiencies visible, but be very careful with boron on these things. I smoked a few of mine late last year by being just a tad overzealous...and I mean at like 2.5 ml boric acid x gl as soil feed. I now use Solubor as  ery, very dilute foliar spray only, not drench. Not mobile, so don't expect changes in any existing leaves.

Just curious as to why you believe these represent two subspecies? Besides the fact that there is no taxonomic determination as to the different populations (yet), all of these look like Veracruz/N Oaxacan material to me. Central Guatemalan material typically lacks a conspicuous notch at the leaf tip.

J

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hit them all with some Microplex, a chelated micro nutrient supplement. I'll post the results as soon as I see any! I thought they looked different, although after some research, I do see the difference between the two populations.

 

Thanks, Randy

"If you need me, I'll be outside" -Randy Wiesner Palm Beach County, Florida Zone 10Bish

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  • 1 month later...

Any advice on potting these up?

Not so much on the potting soil, but how sensitive are they to this?

Thanks!

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17 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

I don’t think that their roots are specially sensitive.

Thanks!

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I too have had no trouble repotting these. I have never tried a clay pot though. Good luck with your beauty.

Cindy Adair

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  • 6 months later...

I posted a topic about the spring checkup of my Cham tuercks in the main forum but I am including a photo in this topic.

5a99d8eda9ab1_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiix90

  • Upvote 4

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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5 hours ago, Kai said:

Very nice Meg! Any flowers on 'em yet?

The 3 older ones have flowered several times (I was told they are males) but as FL lacks the species-specific fertilizing wasp and I don't attempt hand fertilization, I won't get offspring even if I had females.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Meg: out of curiosity, who told you - or where did you read - that they’re wasp-pollinated? AFAIK, they are almost certainly pollinated primarily by small dipterans in nature. I would be stunned to learn that any of the chamaedoreas has any species, or even species group, -specific pollinators. Flowers, both sexes, be dissected out to hand pollinate. This has been done in Guatemala to F2 by me, and F1 for the SE Mexican form by a US botanical garden last year.

With the exception of fig wasps and a few other cases, as a rule wasps are not great pollinators.

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53 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Meg: out of curiosity, who told you - or where did you read - that they’re wasp-pollinated? AFAIK, they are almost certainly pollinated primarily by small dipterans in nature. I would be stunned to learn that any of the chamaedoreas has any species, or even species group, -specific pollinators. Flowers, both sexes, be dissected out to hand pollinate. This has been done in Guatemala to F2 by me, and F1 for the SE Mexican form by a US botanical garden last year.

With the exception of fig wasps and a few other cases, as a rule wasps are not great pollinators.

I read it somewhere but can't remember where or when. Is that info incorrect? I don't want to repeat incorrect data. My understanding is that this species usually requires some kind of insect pollinator that doesn't exist in FL. I would love to learn how to hand pollinate them, assuming I ever end up with mature females but suspect the technique might be difficult and/or tedious.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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“Yes”. Likewise ants don’t pollinate them either, another myth repeated on the web.

With flowers in synch and good eyes, flowers not difficult to work with. Require some form of illuminated magnification, fine scalpel, finer needle (entomological are good), and some luck. I remove one valved upper petal on female flowers to create a cup under the stigma to catch errant pollen grains for second tries.

Good luck. A beautiful and endangered species taken for granted by some palm collectors. Worth every effort to perpetuate it in cultivation by artificial propagation.

J

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47 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I would love to learn how to hand pollinate them, assuming I ever end up with mature females but suspect the technique might be difficult and/or tedious.

Meg, you can do it! Perhaps @stone jaguar can tutor you further in that technique! If you end up with both male and female plants, it sure would be great to put those beautiful babies to good use, producing seed! :wub:

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Pal,

what a beauty. For sure one or the most beautiful palms. 

Is it difficult to grow?

Eckhard 

Edited by Palmensammler

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_metri

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1 hour ago, Palmensammler said:

Hi Pal,

what a beauty. For sure one or the most beautiful palms. 

Is it difficult to grow?

Eckhard 

The only problem is spider mites :bemused:, but it is a real problem; so you have to spray the underside of the blades at least once a day with water ……… 

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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5 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Very nice! How old is it? Mine is pushing its 11th leaf:

5ad62e1f67234_N15022018-04-17P1040433.th

I got a group of these from Floribunda 4 years ago.

To date, I have only lost one but the pot was attacked by my dog.

Let me get some photos of the others.

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18 hours ago, Palmensammler said:

Hi Pal,

what a beauty. For sure one or the most beautiful palms. 

Is it difficult to grow?

Eckhard 

Surprisingly robust even as seedlings. But as Pal said, they are spider mite magnets, esp. indoors. Mine stay outside year round but attract spider mites during dry season. I bought two miticides to alternate periodic treatments starting in Nov. Indoors you will have to use insecticidal soap or water to treat them. They don't like direct sun, wind or extremely high temps. In summer mine live under deep shade in my palm jungle where ambient temps stay 10-15 degrees F on hot days. I worry more about heat than cold with these.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Hi Meg and Pal,

so I have to look for some small plants. Spidermites will be a problem but this should be a problem that can be solved.

Will be more difficult to get available plants in Germany.

Eckhard

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_metri

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4 minutes ago, Palmensammler said:

Hi Meg and Pal,

so I have to look for some small plants. Spidermites will be a problem but this should be a problem that can be solved.

Will be more difficult to get available plants in Germany.

Eckhard

http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/de/small.shtml

5ad76d5e2d286_Bildschirmfoto2018-04-18um

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Hi Pal,

I know this source but unfortunately my experiences are not very good with seeds from them.

Eckhard

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  • 4 weeks later...
8 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

@Kai If you would like to have an alternative to your predatory mites I could recommend Palmolive®; it works to 100% without damaging the leaves:

5afc0b12f3bf8_PalmoliveP1040520.thumb.jp

Is that just a Palmolive soap you're using ? How does it differ from using regular soap for leaves cleaning ?

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11 minutes ago, Reynevan said:

Is that just a Palmolive soap you're using ? How does it differ from using regular soap for leaves cleaning ?

I didn’t use another soap, so I can’t say, but Palmolive® dish-soap is also very soft to your hands … :D

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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3 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

@Kai If you would like to have an alternative to your predatory mites I could recommend Palmolive®; it works to 100% without damaging the leaves:

5afc0b12f3bf8_PalmoliveP1040520.thumb.jp

Yes, a very good alternative. Thanks! I have a bottle of liquid green soap with which I mix a 10% soap/spiritus solution to spray any infected plants. Though I haven't had the nerve to spray my tuercks, it works wonders on my cherry tree which is infested with aphids every year (in colaboration with farmer ants).

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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19 minutes ago, Kai said:

Yes, a very good alternative. Thanks! I have a bottle of liquid green soap with which I mix a 10% soap/spiritus solution to spray any infected plants. Though I haven't had the nerve to spray my tuercks, it works wonders on my cherry tree which is infested with aphids every year (in colaboration with farmer ants).

One month ago I noticed that the undersides of the blades were infested again by spider mites although I had sprayed them daily with water, so I changed my method and dipped the palms into water with Palmolive dish-soap. And it worked excellent: The leaves didn’t suffer any damage at all and the mites died all together after a couple of days.

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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