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Chamaedorea tuerckheimii in Pots


Pal Meir

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Nice job, Pal. Congratulations on the seedlings. Again, please keep a very, very close eye on the undersides of the leaves for evidence of pests this winter with the heat on. Dry, stagnant, warm conditions are "party time" for spider mites.

J

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53 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

Pal inspecting N°1502 for spider mites:

590dcfeeca76c_N15022017-05-06P1030523.th

I never asked. What is that "Pal" figure  ?

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Pal,

wonderful plants you grow. They are really good for indoors because of their slow growth. 

Eckhard

wxBanner?bannertype=wu_bluestripes_metri

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  • 1 month later...

The newest leaf on my tuerck twins shows some mottling. This is normal for this species right?

tmp_14229-20170608_1355371741990832.thum

The twins are still doing very well and appear very healthy. They are in deep shade and they seem to like it!

I have seen this before with C. metallica and C. radicalis seedlings. Given too much brightness, the leaves get an unhealthy lightgreen color. But when put in deep shade, the leaves get dark and glossy.

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Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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3 hours ago, Kai said:

The newest leaf on my tuerck twins shows some mottling. This is normal for this species right?

tmp_14229-20170608_1355371741990832.thum

The twins are still doing very well and appear very healthy. They are in deep shade and they seem to like it!

I have seen this before with C. metallica and C. radicalis seedlings. Given too much brightness, the leaves get an unhealthy lightgreen color. But when put in deep shade, the leaves get dark and glossy.

It’s the same with mine, even worse: the green of new leaves is too yellowish and not dark enough; I guess the window sill gets too much daylight so I’ll put it on another, darker place.

593973f248a3c_N15012017-06-08P1030710.th

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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40 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

It’s the same with mine, even worse: the green of new leaves is too yellowish and not dark enough; I guess the window sill gets too much daylight so I’ll put it on another, darker place.

593973f248a3c_N15012017-06-08P1030710.th

To shed some light on the darkness:

tmp_14229-20170608_183901626494314.thumb

Now we can learn from eachother again!

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www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Pal: the "sand-blasted" or scraped appearance of the leaf you show indicates a (predictable) spider mite infestation, although the plant may also be getting a bit too much light as well. Please check the undersides of the leaves carefully for signs of fine webbing, or get a magnifier/loupe and look for active mites. This pest is one of the single biggest reasons why this species is NOT suitable for indoors cultivation long-term outside of a well-ventilated, but closed environment (e.g. a carefully thought out Wardian Case).

Good luck,

Jay

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27 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Pal: the "sand-blasted" or scraped appearance of the leaf you show indicates a (predictable) spider mite infestation, although the plant may also be getting a bit too much light as well. Please check the undersides of the leaves carefully for signs of fine webbing, or get a magnifier/loupe and look for active mites. This pest is one of the single biggest reasons why this species is NOT suitable for indoors cultivation long-term outside of a well-ventilated, but closed environment (e.g. a carefully thought out Wardian Case).

Good luck,

Jay

Thanks! :sick: It is because it got direct sunlight during the evening hours … :rant:

59398c2cb3803_N15012017-06-08IMG_9228.th

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Pal:

Red spider is generally easier to control than two-spot, which is our biggest problem species with indoor chamaedoreas in the 'States. If available online in the EU, you should probably just buy a small sachet of 500-1000 mixed spp predatory mites for release on the palms and houseplants in your home rather than waste time, effort and tears on b***s**t home remedies (including neem oil, et. al.). Remember that open windows in the late spring, summer and early fall will just provide a route for re-infestation since mites will hitch-hike on errant dust particles.

Kai, from afar, your plant looks great. Congratulations! Please note my cautionary words here about parasitic spider mites and this sp.

Jay

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I agree on the predatory mites. Just a few months ago I put all my palms together and set 500 little predators loose. So far it seems like a great succes! I can find no spider mites anymore. The tuerck was ridden from spider mites a long time ago. I treated it with a common anti mite solution several times. This was possible because it is just a small plant and far away from other plants or open windows and air currents.

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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27 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Pal:

Red spider is generally easier to control than two-spot, which is our biggest problem species with indoor chamaedoreas in the 'States. If available online in the EU, you should probably just buy a small sachet of 500-1000 mixed spp predatory mites for release on the palms and houseplants in your home rather than waste time, effort and tears on b***s**t home remedies (including neem oil, et. al.). Remember that open windows in the late spring, summer and early fall will just provide a route for re-infestation since mites will hitch-hike on errant dust particles.

Kai, from afar, your plant looks great. Congratulations! Please note my cautionary words here about parasitic spider mites and this sp.

Jay

As first-aid I sprayed this Spruzit® on the leaves; it works quite well against spider mites, too.

593996357fa10_SpruzitP1030711.thumb.jpg.

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Pal:

Please remember that no single product will control spider mites effectively. For long term control you must use at least three products with different modes of action, since many ovicides don't control larval stages; ditto for adults, etc. These creatures are infamous for the rapidity with which they develop resistance to pesticides.  Since I know that hobbyist growers in the EU are under far greater restrictions to access of ag-chem than we are in the 'States, I would urge you to consider a predatory mite release. If you don't, due to their rapid life cycles during warm weather, a couple surviving red spiders will have repopulated your plants in literally no time at all. Chronically mite-stressed tuercks tend to die with alarming frequency.

Summer oil component probably more effective than the pyrethroid. I have NO confidence in the efficacy of any of these mixtures beyond the first application.

Jay

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I sprayed my tuercks with strong espresso, a common pesticide for mites and thats it. I always sprayed in the evening as their eggs usually hatch in the evening. It got completely clean and has been for at least a year now. But I keep it away from my other plants just in case...

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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22 minutes ago, Kai said:

I sprayed my tuercks with strong espresso, a common pesticide for mites and thats it. I always sprayed in the evening as their eggs usually hatch in the evening. It got completely clean and has been for at least a year now. But I keep it away from my other plants just in case...

In the past I sprayed my seedlings also with espresso (diluted 2nd brew), but I didn’t like the remaining stains on the leaves (maybe the coffee was too strong?), so I didn’t repeat the spraying, and now I have those pests … :rant:

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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59 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

In the past I sprayed my seedlings also with espresso (diluted 2nd brew), but I didn’t like the remaining stains on the leaves (maybe the coffee was too strong?), so I didn’t repeat the spraying, and now I have those pests … :rant:

The coffeestains can be cleaned, the damage to the leaves is permanent. Best is to spray every night, especially the undersides of the leaves. And use a few different sprays. You will win this battle, I know you will!

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Interesting to hear that espresso will avoid spider mites on the plants. Actually I don't have a problem with them but I'll keep this in mind for the future.

Thanks Kai and Pal 

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Kai:

With due respect, I have done controlled trials of many homemade spider mite controls on tropical plants over the years, including cold coffee sprays, and they simply don't work over time.

Period.

Ditto for neem oil, insecticidal soaps, sweat off a virgin's buttocks, elves' tears, etc.

I don't understand why you had to resort to a predatory mite release in your palm collection "just a few months ago" if the espresso works as you claim? More to the point, do you really think indoor marijuana growers and commercial horticulture and floriculture worldwide would spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars annually on sophisticated ag-chem and laboratory-grown predators in an ongoing battle with spider mites, gall mites, rust mites, broad mites, etc. if all they had to do is spray coffee infusions on their crops a couple nights a week? The only reason predatory mites are not more widely used is that they are more expensive than most miticides per control, are very slow to reproduce in winter, are self limiting once they suppress parasitic mite populations, are killed by chemicals targeting other arthropod pests, and so require repeated releases throughout the crop cycle to keep infestations under control. But for home and commercial growers of ornamental plants dealing with persistent infestations of abamectin and bifenazate-resistant spider mites, they are of huge value and non-toxic.

As for why now? Welcome to nice, dry warm weather! Spider mite season.

For more than you will ever want to know about how really challenging and expensive it is to control parasitic mites in a high-value crop under lights, I suggest spending an hour or so perusing one of the more heavily-trafficked indoor cannabis growers' forums.

Jay

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3 hours ago, stone jaguar said:

Kai:

With due respect, I have done controlled trials of many homemade spider mite controls on tropical plants over the years, including cold coffee sprays, and they simply don't work over time.

Period.

Ditto for neem oil, insecticidal soaps, sweat off a virgin's buttocks, elves' tears, etc.

I don't understand why you had to resort to a predatory mite release in your palm collection "just a few months ago" if the espresso works as you claim? More to the point, do you really think indoor marijuana growers and commercial horticulture and floriculture worldwide would spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars annually on sophisticated ag-chem and laboratory-grown predators in an ongoing battle with spider mites, gall mites, rust mites, broad mites, etc. if all they had to do is spray coffee infusions on their crops a couple nights a week? The only reason predatory mites are not more widely used is that they are more expensive than most miticides per control, are very slow to reproduce in winter, are self limiting once they suppress parasitic mite populations, are killed by chemicals targeting other arthropod pests, and so require repeated releases throughout the crop cycle to keep infestations under control. But for home and commercial growers of ornamental plants dealing with persistent infestations of abamectin and bifenazate-resistant spider mites, they are of huge value and non-toxic.

As for why now? Welcome to nice, dry warm weather! Spider mite season.

For more than you will ever want to know about how really challenging and expensive it is to control parasitic mites in a high-value crop under lights, I suggest spending an hour or so perusing one of the more heavily-trafficked indoor cannabis growers' forums.

Jay

You make a very convincing case.  While I'm not growing anything under lights inside, I'm curious about your thoughts on using them on an infestation of spider mites outside.  I only had a brief problem with one plant grown in a green house, which I acquired and brought home to my garden.  I used a spray (don't recall the name or active ingredient) and it cleared up, but haven't had a problem since. 

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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5 hours ago, stone jaguar said:

Kai:

With due respect, I have done controlled trials of many homemade spider mite controls on tropical plants over the years, including cold coffee sprays, and they simply don't work over time.

Period.

Ditto for neem oil, insecticidal soaps, sweat off a virgin's buttocks, elves' tears, etc.

I don't understand why you had to resort to a predatory mite release in your palm collection "just a few months ago" if the espresso works as you claim? More to the point, do you really think indoor marijuana growers and commercial horticulture and floriculture worldwide would spend tens or hundreds of billions of dollars annually on sophisticated ag-chem and laboratory-grown predators in an ongoing battle with spider mites, gall mites, rust mites, broad mites, etc. if all they had to do is spray coffee infusions on their crops a couple nights a week? The only reason predatory mites are not more widely used is that they are more expensive than most miticides per control, are very slow to reproduce in winter, are self limiting once they suppress parasitic mite populations, are killed by chemicals targeting other arthropod pests, and so require repeated releases throughout the crop cycle to keep infestations under control. But for home and commercial growers of ornamental plants dealing with persistent infestations of abamectin and bifenazate-resistant spider mites, they are of huge value and non-toxic.

As for why now? Welcome to nice, dry warm weather! Spider mite season.

For more than you will ever want to know about how really challenging and expensive it is to control parasitic mites in a high-value crop under lights, I suggest spending an hour or so perusing one of the more heavily-trafficked indoor cannabis growers' forums.

Jay

Jay,

Please enlighten us and post the reports on the controlled trials. We might learn something. All we have now are our own experiences which vary somewhat. This is no surprise as conditions between different growers might vary as well. A comparability study between different products in controlled environment might prove very valuable even though you say nothing works.

Thanks in advance

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Kai:

First, I would like to clarify that I am very open to alternatives to toxic ag-chemicals and have no preconceived opinion/bias against "home remedies". Indeed, in the greenhouse we now lean more on (economy brand) beer traps for snail and slug control than metaldehyde, largely because there are some exotic snails that will not feed on commercial mollusc baits but will consistently fall foul of beer baths. You now know my positive views on the value of farmed arthropod predators in an Integrated Pest Management protocol for control/eradication of spider mites.

If you use the search function on the forum you will see that I have been writing on this subject for some time. I have been posting text & images of Chamaedorea tuerckheimii here for almost 13 years. Since I also grow (or grew) very large numbers of agaves, adeniums, sobralia orchids, nepenthes, hydnophytines and cloud forest chamaedoreas and other small palms vulnerable to spider mites infestations, you can also find me under this avatar or "stonejaguar" discussing control protocols on other fora relating to those plants such as Agaveville, Carnivorous Plants in the Tropics, the Forum for Epiphytic Myrmecophytes, the Yahoo Adenium group, etc.

Without getting too far into the weeds, one reason I am particularly interested in alternatives to commercial miticides is that two of the three very effective products that I currently use for spider mite control (Forbid and Pylon), are immediately phytotoxic to seedlings and can kill them outright with a single spray. Seedling dwarf chamaedoreas are particularly vulnerable to spider mites.  IME, Forbid is also phytotoxic to adult C simplex, C tenerrima and several of the C undulatifolia complex and I would guess to other delicate, papery-leaf palms. At this point I have made multiple trials over the years with coffee sprays (on many plant families), isopropyl alcohol + Bayer 810 (an ag surfactant as substitute for soap/detergent recommended for home use), hot capsicum powder and surfactant, rosemary oil and surfactant ,and pure neem oil and surfactant. I think I gave neem oil more of a go than all the others combined over the past 10 years since I am well aware that azadirachtin  can be an excellent anti-feedant. Almost all of these mixtures (incl. coffee and neem oil) will produce a noticeable, momentary suppression of mite populations in indoor and greenhouse plants, inevitably followed by renewed buildup of mite population shortly thereafter. A key problem with oil and surfactant-based controls, including stylet oils, is that too frequent application over long periods of time tends to overwhelm the plants by functioning as perma anti-transpirants. I have given up on all these products since they have not worked for me and I am not aware of anyone who can demonstrate evidence that they have obtained sustained control of spider mites with any of them alone. See comments above - indoor cannabis growers have a huge incentive to be pesticide free, for obvious reasons, but various types of mites are currently a HUGE issue for the industry in some parts of the world.

One of the things that I noted early on when spraying coffee infusions about a decade ago when it was very popular with highland nepenthes growers as an experimental growth booster, is that many overlook the basic NPK fertilization aspect of coffee spray and attribute other "voodoo" attributes to it. Hence, to a greater or lesser degree, part of the positive result you see from spraying espresso is basically because you are applying a foliar fertilizer. BTW, that fad among nepenthes enthusiasts has more or less fallen by the wayside as growers have improved their knowledge of advanced cultivation requirements for these plants.

Gardeners who live in semi tropical and tropical conditions and are not pesticide crazy usually can get an small-scale, imported spider mite infestation under control with a single knock down type compound (even malathion or neem oil sprays) when their garden is inhabited by any mite predators, of which there are a legion.

Beyond all this, I think that I have been quite consistent here over time that I do not consider Chamedorea tuerckheimii to be a suitable palm for interiors. I base this opinion on my having grown more than a thousand over the years, including from wild and artificially-propagated seed (to F2), rescued wild plants, and rescued cultivated plants. While I have seen plenty of them grow quite well indoors in Guatemala for more than nine months, they inevitably blow up due to one reason or another, usually with spider mites involved. I am currently growing half a dozen seedlings from a new ecotype in a large terrarium in California under artificial lights and had to blast almost all the leaves off them with rotational sprays of miticides when I moved them from the greenhouse at eophyll stage with a few two spotted spider mites along for the ride. I wish everyone here who has them on table tops the very best of luck and sincerely hope they succeed long-term, but it is completely irresponsible to recommend this species as a houseplant given low probability of success and that all of the seed offered commercially at this time is wild-collected from endangered populations in SE Mexico.

593ad1aa3de1c_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiivar

Jay

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The leaf details of the two tuerckheimii's that I got from floribunda end of June 2015:

Palm #1:

Leaf #1, the oldest leaf on the palm. This leaf was present upon arrival in Amsterdam. As you can see it got damaged by spider mites:

(the spider mite infestation originated in my house and NOT at Floribunda, all plants were in perfect condition without any parasites on them)

593ad10619734_Leaf1.thumb.jpg.b0d293b3dc

Leaf #2, when I first planted the tiny barerooted seedling, it's little spear pulled out and this little dwarfed leaf was the first that came out again. It was infested with spider mites:

593ad3ad2f764_Leaf3.thumb.jpg.845647029a

Leaf #3, this leaf wasn't present upon arrival as well. A little spider mite damage is visible but not much:

(this is where I started the coffee treatment)

593ad27fd30e5_Leaf2.thumb.jpg.0484a36db3

Leaf #4, Still battling the mites with coffee and pesticide...

593ad40a46d60_Leaf4.thumb.jpg.6ecf12607e

Leaf #5, Still battling the mites with coffee and pesticide...

593ad48119b1e_Leaf5.thumb.jpg.713dba7f39

Leaf #6, This is the first spider mite clean leaf, still under observation of course!

593ad4de0bdb4_Leaf6.thumb.jpg.840e16b628

Leaf #7, Still clean and treatment was stopped.

593ad54f6b331_Leaf7.thumb.jpg.193e3d826b

Leaf #8, another healthy leaf with no signs of the mites.

593ad5aa56a83_Leaf8.thumb.jpg.d16270c865

Leaf #9, another healthy leaf without mites. If they come back, I will repeat the treatment. But so far so good...Love the mottling effect!

593ad609f396d_Leaf9.thumb.jpg.2994ebbe1c

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Again, an introduction of predatory mites to your palm collection "a few" months back apparently worked well and is most probably helping to keep new leaves clean. Older leaves look great and your diligence has been rewarded. As you now know, constant vigilance is key.

Good luck,

Jay

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14 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Kai:

First, I would like to clarify that I am very open to alternatives to toxic ag-chemicals and have no preconceived opinion/bias against "home remedies". Indeed, in the greenhouse we now lean more on (economy brand) beer traps for snail and slug control than metaldehyde, largely because there are some exotic snails that will not feed on commercial mollusc baits but will consistently fall foul of beer baths. You now know my positive views on the value of farmed arthropod predators in an Integrated Pest Management protocol for control/eradication of spider mites.

If you use the search function on the forum you will see that I have been writing on this subject for some time. I have been posting text & images of Chamaedorea tuerckheimii here for almost 13 years. Since I also grow (or grew) very large numbers of agaves, adeniums, sobralia orchids, nepenthes, hydnophytines and cloud forest chamaedoreas and other small palms vulnerable to spider mites infestations, you can also find me under this avatar or "stonejaguar" discussing control protocols on other fora relating to those plants such as Agaveville, Carnivorous Plants in the Tropics, the Forum for Epiphytic Myrmecophytes, the Yahoo Adenium group, etc.

Without getting too far into the weeds, one reason I am particularly interested in alternatives to commercial miticides is that two of the three very effective products that I currently use for spider mite control (Forbid and Pylon), are immediately phytotoxic to seedlings and can kill them outright with a single spray. Seedling dwarf chamaedoreas are particularly vulnerable to spider mites.  IME, Forbid is also phytotoxic to adult C simplex, C tenerrima and several of the C undulatifolia complex and I would guess to other delicate, papery-leaf palms. At this point I have made multiple trials over the years with coffee sprays (on many plant families), isopropyl alcohol + Bayer 810 (an ag surfactant as substitute for soap/detergent recommended for home use), hot capsicum powder and surfactant, rosemary oil and surfactant ,and pure neem oil and surfactant. I think I gave neem oil more of a go than all the others combined over the past 10 years since I am well aware that azadirachtin  can be an excellent anti-feedant. Almost all of these mixtures (incl. coffee and neem oil) will produce a noticeable, momentary suppression of mite populations in indoor and greenhouse plants, inevitably followed by renewed buildup of mite population shortly thereafter. A key problem with oil and surfactant-based controls, including stylet oils, is that too frequent application over long periods of time tends to overwhelm the plants by functioning as perma anti-transpirants. I have given up on all these products since they have not worked for me and I am not aware of anyone who can demonstrate evidence that they have obtained sustained control of spider mites with any of them alone. See comments above - indoor cannabis growers have a huge incentive to be pesticide free, for obvious reasons, but various types of mites are currently a HUGE issue for the industry in some parts of the world.

One of the things that I noted early on when spraying coffee infusions about a decade ago when it was very popular with highland nepenthes growers as an experimental growth booster, is that many overlook the basic NPK fertilization aspect of coffee spray and attribute other "voodoo" attributes to it. Hence, to a greater or lesser degree, part of the positive result you see from spraying espresso is basically because you are applying a foliar fertilizer. BTW, that fad among nepenthes enthusiasts has more or less fallen by the wayside as growers have improved their knowledge of advanced cultivation requirements for these plants.

Gardeners who live in semi tropical and tropical conditions and are not pesticide crazy usually can get an small-scale, imported spider mite infestation under control with a single knock down type compound (even malathion or neem oil sprays) when their garden is inhabited by any mite predators, of which there are a legion.

Beyond all this, I think that I have been quite consistent here over time that I do not consider Chamedorea tuerckheimii to be a suitable palm for interiors. I base this opinion on my having grown more than a thousand over the years, including from wild and artificially-propagated seed (to F2), rescued wild plants, and rescued cultivated plants. While I have seen plenty of them grow quite well indoors in Guatemala for more than nine months, they inevitably blow up due to one reason or another, usually with spider mites involved. I am currently growing half a dozen seedlings from a new ecotype in a large terrarium in California under artificial lights and had to blast almost all the leaves off them with rotational sprays of miticides when I moved them from the greenhouse at eophyll stage with a few two spotted spider mites along for the ride. I wish everyone here who has them on table tops the very best of luck and sincerely hope they succeed long-term, but it is completely irresponsible to recommend this species as a houseplant given low probability of success and that all of the seed offered commercially at this time is wild-collected from endangered populations in SE Mexico.

593ad1aa3de1c_Chamaedoreatuerckheimiivar

Jay

Jay,

Thank you so much! I will read into your previous posts regarding the subject. I should have done this before asking of course!

I understand you don't recommend this species to any indoor growers, their special requirements will result in most of the little palms dying. If these came from wild collected seeds from endangered population, then I see your point on it being irresponsible to say the least. I hope I didn't make a wrong decission on buying 2 seedlings from Floribunda, but I fully trust them on ecologically correctness.

As you can see in my most recent posts here I'm doing my very best to keep these two little guys as healthy as possible.

Cheers!

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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6 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Again, an introduction of predatory mites to your palm collection "a few" months back apparently worked well and is most probably helping to keep new leaves clean. Older leaves look great and your diligence has been rewarded. As you now know, constant vigilance is key.

Good luck,

Jay

Jay,

Thank you but I think you misunderstood my story (just a littlebit). My tuerckheimii's were not treated with the predatory mites, they are 2 stories away from the rest of my palms where the little predators were released. The tuerckheimii's were only treated with coffee and a common store bought pesticide.

In order to deal with the probable rootcause for the infestation, the tuercks were placed as far away from any open windows and possible drafts and a permanent dish with water around the pot is supposed to surround the little plant with somewhat higher humidity. Killing off mites with coffee and pesticide was just an immediate action and wouldn't work well as a stand alone treatment.

Still I'm very much aware of the possibility of the mites returning someday, it's even very realistic. I keep on the lookout!

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Palm #2:

Leaf #1, the oldest leaf on the palm. This leaf was present upon arrival in Amsterdam and got infested here.

593ade6e46582_Leaf1.thumb.jpg.c92548ca79

Leaf #2, this is the most damaged leaf and a good example on the damage spider mites can do. It looks horrible, but it's clean now and I leave it on untill it dies off.

593adeac2e591_leaf2.thumb.jpg.347b5a0144

Leaf #3, Again, this is the moment where I started treating the plant. Spider mite damage is still present but not as much as the previous leaf.

593adf2f9c02e_Leaf3.thumb.jpg.5507ba9488

Leaf #4, Still signs of mite damage and some damage on both sides of the leaves for unknown reason. Probably it has something to do with a short period of underwatering.

593adfbbdb90e_Leaf4.thumb.jpg.f4142b2e12

Leaf #5, The first clean leaf since infestation.

593ae0495509a_Leaf5.thumb.jpg.32ad8c386c

Leaf #6, Another clean leaf with some nice mottling on it.

593ae0a78350e_Leaf6.thumb.jpg.650945144a

Leaf #7, currently emerging and clean of course.

593ae0eb6980c_Leaf7.thumb.jpg.75b355b173

www.facebook.com/#!/Totallycoconuts

Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

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Not to take away from your obviously excellent pest control so far, Kai, but you should be aware that many predatory mite genera can be aerially dispersed (so this is good!), just like spider mites (but this is bad!). Any air movement in the same building and either type can float both around and out of the space. Ditto from the route inside from the outside with open windows and doors. Your "wet" undercanopy environment is also a major cultural plus.

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