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Pal Meir

Chamaedorea tuerckheimii in Pots

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Pal Meir

Please post your experiences with growing Chamaedorea tuerckheimii in pots, your comments to soil mix, watering, light requirement, humidity, growth rate, fertilizing, deficiencies, pests, etc.

Though I don’t have much experience with this species yet I’ll start with my seedlings just germinated in 2015 during last autumn. The seedlings are in 8x9cm clay pots, the soil “mix” is 100% pine bark 2-8mm (only in one case mixed with a bit coir Kokohum®). As the seedlings are still very tiny I water only a bit, until water comes out of the draining hole. The water I’m using is carbonate free, acidic from a fountain in SW Germany (Odenwald). The palms stand on a desk in a living room, get some dimmed light from a window and a halogen reading lamp.

56acf4add2ae1_N1501-042016-01-30IMG_8487

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Kai

Hi Pal,

I ordered 2 tuerckheimii seedlings from Floribunda last summer and they arrived July 24th in Amsterdam. Together with many other plants they were subjected to 2 weeks in the dark box, barerooted in sphagnum moss. On arrival I thought that the tiny seedlings were doomed but I still potted them up in a loose cocofiber based soil with lots of organics and some perlite mixed in. One of seedlings even lost its little spear. I kept them at a constant 20 C living room temperature and only watered when the soil appeared dry. After a few weeks growth was visible with one of them and a few weeks later a new spear came out of the one that had lost it. I couldn't be happier.

Soon after I experienced its vulnerability to mites and I sprayed the 2 little plants completely with cooled down very strong espresso. This seems to have helped. I haven't seen any mite infestation since and it has been months.

I will upload some pictures when I get the chance.

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Phoenikakias
48 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

Please post your experiences with growing Chamaedorea tuerckheimii in pots, your comments to soil mix, watering, light requirement, humidity, growth rate, fertilizing, deficiencies, pests, etc.

Though I don’t have much experience with this species yet I’ll start with my seedlings just germinated in 2015 during last autumn. The seedlings are in 8x9cm clay pots, the soil “mix” is 100% pine bark 2-8mm (only in one case mixed with a bit coir Kokohum®). As the seedlings are still very tiny I water only a bit, until water comes out of the draining hole. The water I’m using is carbonate free, acidic from a fountain in SW Germany (Odenwald). The palms stand on a desk in a living room, get some dimmed light from a window and a halogen reading lamp.

56acf4add2ae1_N1501-042016-01-30IMG_8487

Pal, no offence but this detail about the mountain spring reminds me of an advertise about any local german beer:D, nevertheless you take the correct precaution measures for those gems.:greenthumb:

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Pal Meir
14 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Pal, no offence but this detail about the mountain spring reminds me of an advertise about any local german beer:D, nevertheless you take the correct precaution measures for those gems.:greenthumb:

The source of my water is neither German beer nor of any commercial origin: :P

56ad05b4e627b_Odenwald2011-08-12IMG_6380

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Josh-O

that water looks mighty tasty!! 

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Hamal

I agree, but for your plants, is there any difference between the fountain water and ordinary rain water?

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Phoenikakias
1 hour ago, Hamal said:

I agree, but for your plants, is there any difference between the fountain water and ordinary rain water?

I guess that rain water is available to be collected only whenever it rains. PLUS rain water in FULL of oxygen. HOWEVER if you let water standing in a bucket for some time, it will also absorb oxygen from the air.

Edited by Phoenikakias

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sashaeffer

Just bought this past spring and has always been in master bath where humidity is higher along with my Joey palm which I've had for a while. The Chamaedorea tuerckheimii came with most of it's soil so it drains well. Didn't start to really have fronds turn brown until December. I think I may not have been watering it enough as I was watering based on soil meter reading which usually showed "wet" thing is with those meters it can be "off" depending on how dense the soil is so I think it was drier than meter was showing. I will say these little guys seem to be pretty tough as it's always been pushing a active spear.  This bathroom has 1 small west facing window and a north facing skylight so ever gets direct sun, just bright light. Hopefully with increased watering it will turn itself around.

 

 

DSCF9986.JPG

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Hamal
4 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

I guess that rain water is available to be collected only whenever it rains. PLUS rain water in FULL of oxygen. HOWEVER if you let water standing in a bucket for some time, it will also absorb oxygen from the air.

I collect rain water in an underground tank (about 5000 liters or 1300 gallons). I have never run out of rain water (you hardly ever will in Germany, unless you own thousands of plants). The only problem I have is that the temperature is only about 8-10C (46-50F) when it comes out of my tank. But letting it sit for a few hours in the sun or overnight warms it up nicely, so it can be used for watering in the morning and evening.

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Pal Meir
1 hour ago, sashaeffer said:

Just bought this past spring and has always been in master bath where humidity is higher along with my Joey palm which I've had for a while. The Chamaedorea tuerckheimii came with most of it's soil so it drains well. Didn't start to really have fronds turn brown until December. I think I may not have been watering it enough as I was watering based on soil meter reading which usually showed "wet" thing is with those meters it can be "off" depending on how dense the soil is so I think it was drier than meter was showing. I will say these little guys seem to be pretty tough as it's always been pushing a active spear.  This bathroom has 1 small west facing window and a north facing skylight so ever gets direct sun, just bright light. Hopefully with increased watering it will turn itself around.

Throw away your soil meter (!!!)! Observe your palms with your own eyes, fingers, and nose (smell of soil?)! And don’t be worried about humidity. Water regularly, but don’t let the soil get soggy, don’t leave remaining water in the saucer/pot. And get a :greenthumb:!

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Phoenikakias
1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

Throw away your soil meter (!!!)! Observe your palms with your own eyes, fingers, and nose (smell of soil?)! And don’t be worried about humidity. Water regularly, but don’t let the soil get soggy, don’t leave remaining water in the saucer/pot. And get a :greenthumb:!

Out the hydrometer, in the finger in to the soil. I can feel this way moisture even in pumice!

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Palm Tree Jim

Thought I would post a photo of mime.

They came from Jeff Marcus last year.

 

Tucker photo.jpg

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Kai
3 minutes ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Thought I would post a photo of mime.

They came from Jeff Marcus last year.

 

Tucker photo.jpg

Looks like mine came from the same batch. Good to see their cousins doing fine.

I forgot to add that I only water them with collected rainwater, like all my plants. 

Also I placed a large soucer underneath the secondary pot. The soucer is filled with water and I think this contributes to the humidity around the plant. So far no leaf browning yet...

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Palm Tree Jim
17 minutes ago, Kai said:

Looks like mine came from the same batch. Good to see their cousins doing fine.

I forgot to add that I only water them with collected rainwater, like all my plants. 

Also I placed a large soucer underneath the secondary pot. The soucer is filled with water and I think this contributes to the humidity around the plant. So far no leaf browning yet...

I must admit, for the most part I ignore them and I use regular water.

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XYZ

Recent photos of your tuercks at hand that can be posted?  Curious to see the results. SoCal has notoriously dreadful water for root sensitive tropicals, so you may have found alternative strategy to suceeding with this palm in cultivation.

J

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Pal Meir

Enjoying some sunlight during dark winter, 107 days after germination: :)

56b605696210c_N15012016-02-06P1010251.th

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Palm Tree Jim
On 1/31/2016, 7:04:36, stone jaguar said:

Recent photos of your tuercks at hand that can be posted?  Curious to see the results. SoCal has notoriously dreadful water for root sensitive tropicals, so you may have found alternative strategy to suceeding with this palm in cultivation.

J

The pictures I posted are recent. 

If you like, I can take some today for you and post.

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Pal Meir

Cham tuerck N°1502 has a split leaf tip (82 days after germination):

56cc6d05ce332_N15022016-02-23P1010267.th

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Pal Meir

The eophyll of N°1501 too has split (127 days after germination):

56d034fd8f416_N15012016-02-26P1010283.th

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Pal Meir

An update of the first 4 seedlings, showing their eophylls:

56dd72f8244de_N1501-042016-03-07IMG_8513

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gyuseppe

Pal in total  are germinated 4 seeds  of 10 seeds ?, I   so  already would be  happy
Seedlings have good health

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Pal Meir
13 minutes ago, gyuseppe said:

Pal in total  are germinated 4 seeds  of 10 seeds ?, I   so  already would be  happy
Seedlings have good health

No, 7 of 10 looked viable when I received them from RPS, but only 6 germinated yet. One (N°5) I’ve killed/cooked on New Years Eve when it was placed too long too close under my halogen reading lamp … :( So there are still 5 seedlings and 1 seed left.

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Pal Meir

This is the last seedling N°1506, germinated on 2015-12-18, showing only the tip of the eophyll:

56dd846a6f204_N15062016-03-07IMG_8514.th

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gyuseppe

Pal you did 5 seedlings, so I would be very happy!
you have killed 1 for your mistake, unfortunately I know how it feels after losing a germinated seed :(

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XYZ

Pal Meir:

Your very detailed germination diary on these Mexican origin seeds from RPS has been a very interesting to read. A few thoughts on this particular Chamaedorea:

- I think that when molecular work is done on these palms we will find that there are at least three "good" species involved, with C. tuerckheimii corresponding to the "blue" form from lower montane rainforests of Alta Verapaz, Baja Verapaz and El Quiche, Guatemala and both the disjunct northwestern and eastern lowland populations needing new names.

- Besides some very delicate geonomas and so forth, I doubt whether there are worse palms as candidates for cultivation indoors than some of the dwarf cloud forest chamaedoreas, with this one being fairly high on the list of being "very unsuitable for home culture". Spider mite infestations alone will drive you to despair in the long run.

- Over the past decades I have germinated what I consider to be from fairly representative numbers (40-100)  to very large numbers (>1000) of seeds from all three populations and find there are some quite distinct morphological differences between the eastern populations and everything else. Germination times for both wild-collected and hand-pollinated "blue" Alta Verapaz and commercial source wild-collected Mexican seed can vary from several months to well over three years. Based on a decent sample size, eastern form seed germinates uniformly and very rapidly with moderate heat; ~six months.

- I suspect that I am the only grower to have produced F2 artificially propagated tuerckheimii. I am now convinced that - for a variety of reasons - this species cannot be maintained in sustainable long-term cultivation outside of benign conditions under intermediate conditions in wet, shady tropical gardens. As many people have noted, the Veracruz and Oaxacan populations appear to be comparatively easier to cultivate, yet pose the very same challenges for propagators as the blue form with regard to the mechanics of pollination and rather low seed set from these efforts. I think that growers should probably reconcile themselves to the fact that the persistence of these palms in low numbers in cultivation will hinge on continued sourcing of wild-collected seed from the three range states.

All that having been said, good luck with your seedlings!

J

 

 

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Pal Meir

@stone jaguar Thank you for your infos and comments. I hope my five Ch. tuercks will grow also in the environment of my working desk, under the halogen reading lamp, getting some humidity from the other palms:

56df2e92342d9_N15002016-03-08P1010347.th

56df2e99bc209_N15002016-03-08P1010348.th

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Pal Meir

Perfectly formed eophyll of N°1504:

570bb8a4b5425_N15042016-04-11P1010384.th

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Pal Meir

Update: N°1501 half a year (2016-04-24) after germination (2015-10-22)

571cc18a9fbe5_N15012016-04-24P1010388.th

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Pal Meir

Now unfolding its 2nd leaf:

572b4617142a3_N15012016-05-05P1010506.th

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Pal Meir

The babies are still happy and don’t worry in their small pots in the small box in the dry air in my living room: :)

572cc026f2b29_N1501-062016-05-06P1010513

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Pal Meir

Entire 2nd leaf, not (yet?) split at the tip:

5739b6434a458_N15012016-05-16P1010562.th

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cristi

Your seedlings are looking great.

I would like to have your opinion about my problem:

 

Thank you.

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XYZ

Pal Meir:

The Mexican populations are very variable with regard to shape of the leaf apex, particularly in youth. Yours look great so far. I have a couple of F2 Coban "blue" seedlings as well as some of the Honduran mottled form that are a couple months behind yours. When they push out their first leaves, I'll post them here for comparison.

Cheers,

J

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Pal Meir

@stone jaguar Please post the results with your potted C tuercks here too! And as you have also the other varieties it will be even more interesting. :interesting:

The seedling N°1503 which had sprouted from the very tiny seed #7 didn’t grow for a long time any more, but with the plastic bag method I could wake it up and make grow again: ^_^

573b0996b289c_N15032016-04-30P1010500.th

573b099e2ee22_N15032016-05-17P1010566.th

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Pal Meir

Enjoying the filtered sunlight: :greenthumb::)

5748728343956_N15012016-05-27P1010670.th

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Pal Meir

Slender stem with strong roots:

575d68ec33030_N15012016-06-12IMG_8749.th

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Pal Meir

Update 2016-06-12; N°1501 and 02 with tip of 3rd leaf:

575d6d752adfa_N1501-062016-06-12P1010790

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Howeadypsis

They look really nice!

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Pal Meir

Unfolding its 3rd leaf the palm N°1501 resembles more and more a Lodoicea: :blink:

576d5045becff_N15012016-06-24P1010897.th

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Kai

Looking very healthy, Pal! Did you put them in pure pinebark?

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