Mule Palm in Zone 8b

[nitsua0895]

I got a 5 foot tall mule palm and during December I left it mostly outside because it stayed so warm for most of the month but it's inside now because there were a couple of light freezes earlier this week. Has anyone had experience with how much cold this palm can handle without any damage?

I ask this because I'm thinking about planting it within the next month. I know Mule Palms have a similar hardiness to Butia Capitatas which grows very well here. During our coldest winters I've only noticed damage to Sago Palms which promptly come back the next spring. And with this being a warm El Niño winter I figured it might be okay to plant soon. It would also be in a sunny location on the south side of my house which should block cold winds from the north.

Also, some of the older fronds are turning grey on the tips and some of the new growth is curling on the end. Do I just need to apply a slow release fertilizer stick to the soil around it or should I do something else to make sure it's getting proper micronutrients? Especially while it's still in a nursery pot.

[Alicehunter2000]

Early March I would put that thing in the ground. Step back and be amazed at how well it does in the location you described above. 

Not sure what is causing the necrosis on the tips....maybe too much or too little water....I would water about once a week and just bid your time until March. Sit near the window and give as much light as possible.

[JLeVert]

I would leave it outside as much as you can unless the temperature is going to go below 40F.  The coolness will not bother it and the improved light and humidity will be great as well.  

[Palm crazy]

I agree with Joe, the lower indoor humidity is probably causing the damage. Put outside as much as possible. My indoor palms I have to mist several times a week to keep them from drying out. 

[nitsua0895]

Thanks for everyone's help!

For the next day or two we're forecast to have warm and humid weather so I just put it outside. However on Monday we may get as low as 25F and then a few nights right around freezing. When it gets cold here it's almost always very dry air so will it make any difference whether it's inside or outside on those days? 

I've also included a photo of the small Pygmy Date, Chinese Fan, Windmill, and Sylvester Dates I'm trying to grow. I planted my Butia Capitata last June and since then it's become so addicting.

[enigma99]

1 minute ago, nitsua0895 said:

Thanks for everyone's help!

For the next day or two we're forecast to have warm and humid weather so I just put it outside. However on Monday we may get as low as 25F and then a few nights right around freezing. When it gets cold here it's almost always very dry air so will it make any difference whether it's inside or outside on those days? 

I've also included a photo of the small Pygmy Date, Chinese Fan, Windmill, and Sylvester Dates I'm trying to grow. I planted my Butia Capitata last June and since then it's become so addicting.

Pretty much all your stuff can handle 25f no problem. Pygmy date will be roasted though so good thing you have a greenhouse for it. But they do pretty good even down to the upper 20s

[Ben in Norcal]

At that size, though, I'd bring it all in if it's going to get all the way down to 25.  No reason not to, so wouldn't risk it.

[enigma99]

55 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

At that size, though, I'd bring it all in if it's going to get all the way down to 25.  No reason not to, so wouldn't risk it.

Good point

[Joe NC]

I bought a mule as a small liner sized plant just over 3 years ago.  I live in zone 8a, so I know a few nights each winter this plant will probably need some help.  I potted it up into a 3 gallon pot shortly after buying it and would bring it inside just on nights when the lows were forecast to be below 20.  The rest of the time the previous 2 winters it spent outside in a sunny spot on the patio, no damage ever (even grows some in the winter).  This spring it was busting out of the pot, so I put it in the ground.  Maybe 5 nights a year at most I will have to worry about offering it protection, where I will tie up the fronds, wrap small christmas lights (like 400) around it and wrap the whole thing in a bed sheet then plastic.  I can easily gain 10F from the outside ambient temp this way.  I have done this for a "Fillabusta" to have it establish and gain enough mass to handle the defoliation 3 out of 5 winters lows would bring.  I use a thermo-cube inside the wrap that the lights will plug into as a thermostat, and a remote thermometer to see the temp inside the wrap.   The Washy has outgrown this (from seedling to around 9ft now), so I can now baby the mule using this set up.  I hope the Washitonia is more Filifera than Robusta and will survive the defoliation every few years as others have locally.  The mule is probably not going to be long term player in my landscape, but if I can keep it around long enough to establish some trunk I might get it to pull through the defoliation every few years once it outgrows the protection scheme.  

[nitsua0895]

Wow I have definently been protecting my mule palm way too much. The fact that yours suffered no damage down to 20F while in a pot is really encouraging. Do you have a photo of your planted mule palm?

You never know what to expect with winters in Montgomery. I know the all time record low is -5F but that hasn't happened since 1899 and I hope it never comes anywhere close to that again. But the coldest I've personally experienced is 13F which happened last January. However, every now and then we can have a zone 9b winter like it's been so far this year.

I really hope my mule palm can reach its mature height, especially since I'm going to position it in a microclimate but it all just depends whether or not it can withstand the extremely rare drop to the low teens. I know I'm going to do everything I can to protect it.

I've noticed that Butia Capitata, Trachycarpus Fortunei, and Sabal Palmettos are completely hardy here without any protection but I saw lots of tall Washingtonias that died after the extreme cold last year. However one defoliated, came back, and now it looks really nice so I wonder if it was more Filifera. 

 

 

[Brad Mondel]

Remember that potted palms are less hardy than ones growing in the ground, seedlings are more vulnerable as well and also cold weather combined with rain will promote crown rot. Make sure your soil is well drained and isn't wet during the cold snaps. Do not get moisture in the crown at all as this can promote fungal and bacterial infections. 

I lost a young planted mule during a cold snap at 17F because the soil was soggy wet. 

[nitsua0895]

3 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

Remember that potted palms are less hardy than ones growing in the ground, seedlings are more vulnerable as well and also cold weather combined with rain will promote crown rot. Make sure your soil is well drained and isn't wet during the cold snaps. Do not get moisture in the crown at all as this can promote fungal and bacterial infections. 

I lost a young planted mule during a cold snap at 17F because the soil was soggy wet. 

Did your mule palm get snow on it or did it just rain a lot and then get extremely cold right after?

We're expecting half an inch of rain this evening and then it's going to turn cold really quick. Tomorrow is only going to be in the mid-40's with winds up to 30mph.

 

 

[Palm crazy]

Once you plant your mule this spring it will grow fast and be able to handle down to the upper teens, mine has been through 16F (with overhead canopy) no damage what so ever.  Do bring inside when it gets cold, put out side when it’s not freezing again. It going to love your climate, once you plant that puppy! 

If its only in the mid 40’s with no freezing at night just put it in a protected spot away from cold winds, a warm spot. Close to the house is usually a warm spot. 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Palm crazy

[Brad Mondel]

Mine experienced a sharp frost followed by heavy rain. Poor guy never had a chance without protection. Yours is larger so yours will be hardier than mine was though. 

Bring him inside if the forecast is below 32F but put him back outside if it's warmer. At least until you can plant him. 

[Joe NC]

On 1/9/2016, 3:28:55, nitsua0895 said:

Wow I have definently been protecting my mule palm way too much. The fact that yours suffered no damage down to 20F while in a pot is really encouraging. Do you have a photo of your planted mule palm?

 

 

I snapped a quick photo this morning on the way out the door with my phone, red solo cup for scale.  Its planted close to a SE facing brick wall to hopefully benefit from the micro-climate.  It is just over 4ft tall with the fronds arching, and if I were to stand them up straight it is right around 6ft.  The lowest three fronds are the only left from when it was planted this spring.  The rest are from one summer's growth in the ground.  I expect it to explode next year.  

 

[Alicehunter2000]

If it were me I would still bring it in with freezing temps....Plant in the spring.

Mules are notorious for spear pulling with freezing temps at this stage ...

 That being said. They usually recover and come on strong after that.

[Joe NC]

An important piece I left out of my first comment was that the sunny spot on my patio was under the eave of the house and it didn't get any water in the crown before freezing temps.  I did leave it out unless the forecast was for a low below 20, but I'm sure the spot on the concrete slab up near the house kept it a little warmer.  I would try to maximize the amount of outside sun your plant gets, and just bring it in when there is ice or cold (below 28-25?) in the forecast.  I would guess that it should be at least as hardy as a queen?

[nitsua0895]

6 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I snapped a quick photo this morning on the way out the door with my phone, red solo cup for scale.  Its planted close to a SE facing brick wall to hopefully benefit from the micro-climate.  It is just over 4ft tall with the fronds arching, and if I were to stand them up straight it is right around 6ft.  The lowest three fronds are the only left from when it was planted this spring.  The rest are from one summer's growth in the ground.  I expect it to explode next year.  

 

Your palm looks great! I'm so ready to get mine planted. How cold did it get in North Carolina last night and did you have to do anything to protect it from the cold? Here we got down to 26F and it's supposed to be around 28F tonight but then it's going to warm up later in the week.

I'm sure I can get it to survive here for a long time but I worry about what I'll be able to do when it gets tall and we get record cold around 5-10F. 

 

[Joe NC]

4 hours ago, nitsua0895 said:

Your palm looks great! I'm so ready to get mine planted. How cold did it get in North Carolina last night and did you have to do anything to protect it from the cold? Here we got down to 26F and it's supposed to be around 28F tonight but then it's going to warm up later in the week.

I'm sure I can get it to survive here for a long time but I worry about what I'll be able to do when it gets tall and we get record cold around 5-10F. 

 

The coldest it has seen this year is one night of 25, and a couple of 27-28 nights.  It looks like it might get in the upper 20's tonight.  I'm not worried, yet... 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

There is variability with hybrids, but for the most part mules are undoubtedly more cold hardy than w. Robusta. I've seen more pindo looking mules not burn with w. robusta beside them completely defoliated.

[Joe NC]

Forecast for tomorrow night keeps bouncing between the low 20's and 19.  I chickened out and wrapped up the little mule with lights and tarps.  Better safe than sorry (and it only takes 20 minutes of effort at most).  This method will provide at least 10 degrees of protection, and won't cook the plant. 

  

Tie up fronds.

Wrap the poor plant in a ridiculous amount of incandescent mini christmas lights.   

I plug the lights into a thermocube so they only come on when it gets below 35 and more importantly shut off if it gets over 45 under the wrap.  I try and place the cube with the lights plugged into it right in the center of the plant, up against the newest spear.  I also try and just wrap the lights around the outside of the plant away from the cube.  I stick a wireless outdoor thermometer in there just so I can see what is going on temperature wise under the wrap.

Wrap the whole mess using paper lined plastic painters drop cloths.  I use the thicker ones from Wxxmart, and they have lasted a few years for less than 10 bucks.  Put the plastic side out and they are rain proof.  Tie it up with twine and stick some rocks on the bottom for good measure.  The white tarp keeps it from cooking in the sun if you have to leave it on for a couple of days.  

[nitsua0895]

6 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

Forecast for tomorrow night keeps bouncing between the low 20's and 19.  I chickened out and wrapped up the little mule with lights and tarps.  Better safe than sorry (and it only takes 20 minutes of effort at most).  This method will provide at least 10 degrees of protection, and won't cook the plant. 

  

Tie up fronds.

Wrap the poor plant in a ridiculous amount of incandescent mini christmas lights.   

I plug the lights into a thermocube so they only come on when it gets below 35 and more importantly shut off if it gets over 45 under the wrap.  I try and place the cube with the lights plugged into it right in the center of the plant, up against the newest spear.  I also try and just wrap the lights around the outside of the plant away from the cube.  I stick a wireless outdoor thermometer in there just so I can see what is going on temperature wise under the wrap.

Wrap the whole mess using paper lined plastic painters drop cloths.  I use the thicker ones from Wxxmart, and they have lasted a few years for less than 10 bucks.  Put the plastic side out and they are rain proof.  Tie it up with twine and stick some rocks on the bottom for good measure.  The white tarp keeps it from cooking in the sun if you have to leave it on for a couple of days.  

I'll have to give that method a try in case we get extremely cold next winter. We're going to be around 30F tonight and 25F tomorrow night so I'm glad I waited to plant mine. It's on my front porch right now and I'm going to bring it in later tonight. 

[smithgn]

Joe NC- Great pics demonstrating how you protect your mule. I use a thermo cube and Christmas lights as well. Also, you're totally right by protecting it just in case. Even if temperatures drop barely below freezing, if I have time, I hook everything up and pop my mini-greenhouses over my tender stuff just to be safe. 20 minutes of preparation can save you a whole growing season spent regrowing fried fronds. Where in North Carolina are you? I look forward to seeing how y'alls Mules do; I've often wondered how they would do in my area.

[Joe NC]

5 hours ago, smithgn said:

Joe NC- Great pics demonstrating how you protect your mule. I use a thermo cube and Christmas lights as well. Also, you're totally right by protecting it just in case. Even if temperatures drop barely below freezing, if I have time, I hook everything up and pop my mini-greenhouses over my tender stuff just to be safe. 20 minutes of preparation can save you a whole growing season spent regrowing fried fronds. Where in North Carolina are you? I look forward to seeing how y'alls Mules do; I've often wondered how they would do in my area.

I'm in Wilmington, just outside the urban heat island in a solid z8a.  I have already had a couple of nights in the mid 20's and all the tender tropical stuff had been fried by early Dec, but my friends who live downtown as of yesterday still had annual begonias flowering.  There is usually at least a 5 degree difference between actual downtown temps and the airport (my temps), I'm sure people could grow mules in that heat island or close to the beach with minimal problems.  There is a tall W. robusta (real skinny so I don't think hybrid?) that has been downtown for years and only gets defoliated during the worst (aka last) winters.  My mule is going to be stretch, depending on its genetics, the polar vortex, and my ability to keep it protected until it has some trunk and is established at its maximum hardiness.  At best I expect someday to have to break out the chainsaw and remove it's carcass, at worst it will die small enough for me to pull it out by hand.  I think I am only a few degrees away a couple of nights every third year to have mature butia leaning mule survive.  Before the last two brutal winters a nursery around here started selling some big ones ($$$), and they had one with 6ft of clear trunk planted.  The following summer it looked pretty rough after dealing with being transplanted and the arctic blast, but it did still have some green in the center and it was alive.  I have no idea how it is doing now after last winter, as the nursery went out of biz or moved.  I have seeds of B. eriospatha x S. rom littoralis, that I am trying to germinate. Hopefully the parents will impart a couple of extra degrees of hardiness (supposedly the littoralis is hardy to 15?) and these mules will be good long term here?          

Edited January 18, 2016 by Joe NC

[Zeeth]

4 hours ago, Joe NC said:

 I have seeds of B. eriospatha x S. rom littoralis, that I am trying to germinate. Hopefully the parents will impart a couple of extra degrees of hardiness (supposedly the littoralis is hardy to 15?) and these mules will be good long term here?          

I've heard of that hybrid having the best hardiness out of all of the mules, so good luck germinating them!

[Ben in Norcal]

6 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

I've heard of that hybrid having the best hardiness out of all of the mules, so good luck germinating them!

I'd expect that would be a Monster Mule!

[maesy]

I also have a mule palm growing in my garden here in Switzerland similar as yours in hight Joe. Our climate is actually far too cold, maybe 7b, but sometimes with prolonged freezes for several days.

Only yesterday we had -12 degrees celsius (10 degrees fahrenheit). I use heating cable, and lots of fleece for protection. 

I will post a photo when I have the time.

Marcel

Edited January 19, 2016 by maesy

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

From what i have witnessed is if a w. robusta survives in your area then mules will too. 

[Joe NC]

I got scared and wrapped my washy too.  I happened to see some 75% off "Plankets" in the clearance pile at the big box and was inspired.  Same method as above but 2 frost cloths took the place of the 2 plastic tarps.  I wasn't sure if it would work as well since the frost cloths are breathable, but as of 6 am this morning it was 20 outside and 38 inside both the plastic tarp mule and frost cloth wrapped washy.  Using the 10x20 Plankets, I should be able to protect the mule until is has some real size to it.    

September, looking fat and happy.

Yesterday (minus 3 fronds) looking sad and mummy-wrapped  

[yabazid]

yes that is much needed for the washy and the mule. Highs in Anderson been between high 30s low 40s, and lows between low 30s and low 20s. Idk about your location but I can imagine its very similar. This will continue till the end of the week and rise back to mid 50s (looking forward to that). What mostly kills or damage my palms is this kind of weather, were the temps stay freezing for a week!

But you have a washy growing, so I guess maybe its a few degrees warmer where you at! If I am to grow a washy, I would have to protect it way many times to be worth it. 

[maesy]

Mine in November.

 

 

And that is how it looks right now

 

Marcel

 

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by maesy

[Palm crazy]

Our cold spells up north come about every 4-6 weeks in winter so that would mean another freeze in February around 25F −31F. Haven’t had any snow this years which is really great! Last frost date is March 31.  

Those lights and wrappings are classic, some great examples of palm protection. Good luck, hope it warmer than expected. 

[nitsua0895]

With temperatures in the mid-70's for a few days and no freezes in the 10 day forecast I figured I'd go ahead and plant my mule palm. Thankfully it's not very tall so I can protect it if there's a record cold snap before spring. 

 

 

[Matthew92]

On 1/19/2016, 9:30:27, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

From what i have witnessed is if a w. robusta survives in your area then mules will too. 

Mule is more cold hardy than a W. robusta though right?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

5 hours ago, Opal92 said:

Mule is more cold hardy than a W. robusta though right?

Yes, most of them are.