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TimHopper

Jubutyagrus

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TimHopper

Jubaea is  a stunning palm that I would love to add to my garden, but it's just too hot and wet down here. I do have a JuButia x Butia that is growing nicely toward flowering. I hope to introduce syagrus R. pollen when the time is right to hopefully produce JuButyagrus (waiting patiently while holding empty fertilizer bag)! I have some massive bonsal queens here that will be the pollen donors. The bonsal queen seeds that I got from Eric Anderson at www.seedcoseeds.com produced very bulky queens with the expanded base similar to those in topic "fat bottom girls".  Who has a large Jubutyagrus. I would love to see one. Tim

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lyle-turner

OMG totally off the subject im sorry , hahaha but. every time i see your name it reminds me of the movie ( predator, with arnold S ) quote: they did the same thing to jim hopper.

ill appoligise again but i had a laugh

regards

lyle

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STEVE IN SO CAL

I've coined a name for this palm....(JubxButia  X  Syagrus)

The Draft Mule Palm.

When you cross a donkey with a draft mare (clydesdale, belgian, percheron) you get what's called a draft mule. Hence the name.

Dick posted a pic of his small one in the travel section re his garden.

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TimHopper

(STEVE IN SO CAL @ Apr. 07 2007,08:40)

QUOTE
I've coined a name for this palm....(JubxButia  X  Syagrus)

The Draft Mule Palm.

When you cross a donkey with a draft mare (clydesdale, belgian, percheron) you get what's called a draft mule. Hence the name.

Dick posted a pic of his small one in the travel section re his garden.

Steve, I went to find the photo from Dick's place, here it is. Hey, the "Draft Mule" has a nice ring to it. There must be a large one growing somewhere.  Tim

xJubutyagrus.jpg

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TimHopper

Here is an updated photo of my JxBxB. Tim

jxbxb001.jpg

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PalmGuyWC

Hi!

Doesn't anyone have a larger Jubaea X Syagrus, or a Syagrus X Jubaea? I doubt if there is one, or we probably would have seen a picture posted. Anyone?

Dick

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cfkingfish

My Jubutiagrus is still strap-leaved, nothing special to show really.

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TimHopper

(cfkingfish @ Apr. 07 2007,15:35)

QUOTE
My Jubutiagrus is still strap-leaved, nothing special to show really.

Christian, Where did you get yours? I would like to see a photo of it if you get a chance. The photo of the small xJubutyagrus above shows broad strap leaves before going pinnate. Tim

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cfkingfish

Tim-

I will get a photo at the nursery today. I got it in a trade with Dave Prall, and it is [(Butia x Jubaea) X Syagrus]. The straps are a bit narrower - I should ask them where they got it.

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PalmGuyWC

Yo Steve,

"Draft Mule Palm" is such an inelegant name for what should be a very spectacular hybrid. Let's stick with Jubutyagrus which has a nice ring to it and is more descriptive. I'm from Georgia and I'm familiar with mules, an animal that I suspect most people have never even seen. They are a big, ugly animal with floppy ears and there is nothing elegant about them at all.  They are butt ugly.

I have never liked the term "Mule palm," for Butia X Syagrus......because there is just nothing pretty about a mule except they are strong, trainable, and do hard work. There is a term in the South, "As stubborn as a Mule."  How could they be otherwise when the father is known as a Jackass?

Also, let's not confuse Jubutyagrus with Jubaea X Syagrus or Syagrus X Jubaea.  I have yet to see a picture of the latter two.

Dick

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TimHopper

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 08 2007,08:57)

QUOTE
Yo Steve,

"Draft Mule Palm" is such an inelegant name for what should be a very spectacular hybrid. Let's stick with Jubutyagrus which has a nice ring to it and is more descriptive. I'm from Georgia and I'm familiar with mules, an animal that I suspect most people have never even seen. They are a big, ugly animal with floppy ears and there is nothing elegant about them at all.  They are butt ugly.

I have never liked the term "Mule palm," for Butia X Syagrus......because there is just nothing pretty about a mule except they are strong, trainable, and do hard work. There is a term in the South, "As stubborn as a Mule."  How could they be otherwise when the father is known as a Jackass?

Also, let's not confuse Jubutyagrus with Jubaea X Syagrus or Syagrus X Jubaea.  I have yet to see a picture of the latter two.

Dick

This is true Dick. People give me a strange look when I tell them that I love the" Mule" that I'm growing in my front lawn. Tim

HeLovesHisMule.jpg

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Alberto

Here is a photo of my Jubutyagrus that is now 3 months in the ground. For comparison 2 seedlings (of the same age(1year11m))of Butyagrus.

The Jubutyagrus has broader,longer leaflets and heavier texture then Butyagrus.

post-465-1176042771_thumb.jpg

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STEVE IN SO CAL

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 08 2007,08:57)

QUOTE
Yo Steve,

"Draft Mule Palm" is such an inelegant name for what should be a very spectacular hybrid. Let's stick with Jubutyagrus which has a nice ring to it and is more descriptive. I'm from Georgia and I'm familiar with mules, an animal that I suspect most people have never even seen. They are a big, ugly animal with floppy ears and there is nothing elegant about them at all.  They are butt ugly.

I have never liked the term "Mule palm," for Butia X Syagrus......because there is just nothing pretty about a mule except they are strong, trainable, and do hard work. There is a term in the South, "As stubborn as a Mule."  How could they be otherwise when the father is known as a Jackass?

Also, let's not confuse Jubutyagrus with Jubaea X Syagrus or Syagrus X Jubaea.  I have yet to see a picture of the latter two.

Dick

Dick...after 25 years as a proffessional farrier, I understand EXACTLY where you're coming from.. :D

My only argument would be that 'Mule Palm' is already deeply ingrained in the palm lexicon, putting the 'Draft' in front only helps to differentiate the two.

As a lad in KY, we had draft mules...and I only have fond memories of them pulling us on a hayride. Struggling to pull us up Hog Nob Hill, shoes clacking on the rocky grade, the driver cracking his whip above their heads yelling "Hup mike...hup Joe...get up there...hup...hup...get on, get on..hup hup".... their straining muscles glistening beneath the sweat brought on by that summer heat and humidity. And then the driver stopping for a few minutes after reaching the summit, to give these beasts of burden a well deserved rest....their rib cages expanding and contracting as they sucked in air, trying to replace oxygen that had left their strained muscles. I remember the contrast of what seemed like cruelty on the way up, tempered by a surprise show of kindness afterwards. I thought(and still do) they were impressive creatures, as I feel this palm will be...

I still get goose bumps when I think of it....

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TimHopper

Alberto, That Jubutyagrus looks happy in the ground. Very healthy looking. Tim

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PalmGuyWC

Hi Eric,

The photograph you show looks nothing like my Jubutiagrus (Jubaea X Butia) X Syagrus, and I'm 100% (OK, 95%) sure mine is the real thing. Check the photograph of mine above in this thread. The way the pinna stick together in your photograph makes it appear to be more Butia than anything.

Where did the name Everettii come from?  Was that the hybridiser? I think we have to be carefull about what this hybrid is called so we can stay on the same page. If it must be given a nickname, maybe Steve's suggestion of Draft Mule is not a bad idea. Just to be more specific, I think I will continue to call it a Jubutiagrus.

Dick

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PalmGuyWC

Ahhh,

Darn my after thoughts.  It just occured to me that the Jubutiagrus may not be a mule at all. What if it produces viable seeds, or will cross with something else? Then what should it be called? I guess we will have to wait awhile until they start blooming since apparently no one has a mature one.

Not to confuse the issue, but I'm also curious to see what the bloom spath will look like on Butia X Parajubaea. Butias generally have smooth bloom spaths while Parajubaea has course stubby spathes with deep ridges. It will be interesting to see if they produce fruit and seeds.  Will they be large like Parajubaea seeds with ridges, or smooth like Butias?

To let the imigination run a little further....would it be possible to cross a Butia X Parajubaea with Parajubaea?  The Butia X Parajub. has proven to be quite cold hardy so would not the cross back look more like Parajubaea, but with some of the cold hardiness of Butia?  If some of the new hybrids prove to produce viable seeds, the possible combinations are endless.  Exciting stuff, huh? Of course this is all speculation.

Dick

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Nigel

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 08 2007,15:10)

QUOTE
Hi Eric,

The photograph you show looks nothing like my Jubutiagrus (Jubaea X Butia) X Syagrus, and I'm 100% (OK, 95%) sure mine is the real thing. Check the photograph of mine above in this thread. The way the pinna stick together in your photograph makes it appear to be more Butia than anything.

Where did the name Everettii come from?  Was that the hybridiser? I think we have to be carefull about what this hybrid is called so we can stay on the same page. If it must be given a nickname, maybe Steve's suggestion of Draft Mule is not a bad idea. Just to be more specific, I think I will continue to call it a Jubutiagrus.

Dick

Dick is totally correct, and I will put my neck on the block and say that palm has not taken any queen pollen and is a `plain old` Jubaeaxbutia.

Can we also please drop this horrible mule name, its the worst name ever given to Butiagrus or Jubutiagrus, and does nothing to enhance the impression of this wonderful hybrid.

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PalmGuyWC

Right on Nigel!!

I was wondering when we might hear from you.

Dick

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Eric in Orlando

That palm came from  fertile seed produced by a J X B specimen that was pollinated with Syagrus pollen.

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Nigel

I have 2 (extremely expensive) character leafed palms  grown from fertile seed produced on Jubaeaxbutia pollinated with Syagrus pollen .

It is now perfectly apparent to me that neither took the Syagrus pollen but must have been contaminated with Butia pollen or self pollinated within the bag.

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SubTropicRay

Nice plants.  I'm jealous.

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PalmGuyWC

Pollinating (hybrid) techniques:

I have watched Patrick S. pollinating techniques many times, and he goes to extream lengths to prevent contamination of unwanted pollen but sometimes there is some contamination anyway.  He removes the male flowers usually a day or two after the flower spath opens. Most of the male flowers are at the tips of the rachilla, usually the lower half, and these are cut off. He then maticuliously removes all male flowers which are attached to the rachilla amongst the female flowers. This process can sometimes take hours. When all the male flowers are removed, the inflorescence and the ajacent exposed areas are sprayed down with a garden hose to remove any lingering pollen.

After the inflorescence drys, it is sprayed with a 10% acohol solution to kill any more lingering pollen that may remain. The entire inflorescence is then bagged with a light, tight meshed canvas bag and tied very tightly around the base of the peduncle. This  prevents unwanted pollen and honey bees from getting to the female flowers. The female flowers are considerably larger than the males and usually are not receptive to pollenisation for about 10 days, depending on the weather.  Warmer weather speeds up the process.

A few days before the female flowers reach anthesis, the canvas bag is removed and a carefull check to see if any male flowers were missed and if so, they are removed, and once again washed with a garden hose and an acohol spray, then bagged again.

The female flowers are then closely watched for anthesis.  Sometimes they are ready all at once, others depending on the tempratures, they open in an irregular fashion, and a couple of pollinating procedures may be required.

In theory the only time the female flowers might be exposed to contamination to unwanted pollen is when the pollinating process is going on.  Sometimes there are a few hungry bees swarming around that have to be swated away during the process. The pollinating process is tedious as each female flower has to be brushed with pollen and this can take some time.

After pollinating, the inflorescence is once again bagged untill the fruit begins to form.  After the fruit is over pea sized, the bag is removed and then a screen is installed over the inflorescence to prevent squirrls from eating the fruit, and then there is a long waiting process for the fruit to mature.  With Jubaeas or Butias this can be a matter of months, with Syagrus up to 18 months, with Parajubaeas.....a long time.

With hybridising, it's a hit and miss proposition.  Often times only a small precentage of the hybrid seed will be viable, sometimes none at all. Some palms of the same species will be more receptive to hybridisation than others. This is an on going learning process and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.  Does temperature have anything to do with the success rate?  Was the pollen viable? Were the trees compatible? Was the timing  right? There are still a lot of unanswered questions to hybridising, and sometimes there seems to be no rhime or reason to the success rate.

Mind you.....all of this is usually taking place perched on the top of a tall ladder, squeezed in between fronds, in swealtering heat, swating honey bees, and it's tedious work, so if you think the hybrids are expensive, there is a very good reason. It's not easy.

After all this, there is the germinating process, then growing the seedlings up to a size where their adult characteristics began to show. This can take another 2 or 3 years. Excuse my spelling.....no spell checker here.

Dick

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Nigel

Dick, when people look at prices of hybrids they completely fail to understand the amount of work and effort that goes in.

Some guys seem to think that brushing a bit of pollen on will guarateee the results, but as we both know its not enough.

I bought my two character leaf `Jubutyagrus` plants in europe ,they had been improted from Florida.

At that time Merrill was the only guy in the world who had created Jubutyagrus , albeit using an F2 JxB.

I remember buying some JxB and BxP from patrick and urging him to make the Jubutyagrus cross which he hadnt tried at that time, and its probably now his best success.

I sometimes wonder if your hybrid is in fact a BxJ , because the J seems to be notoriously difficult to pollinate with Syagrus pollen, yet your  JxB seems to take it readily.

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Kris

Dear Dick & Dear Nigel  :)

that hybrid topic in your conversation is very intreasting...

and wish to know wheather this combination of JubeaXButiaX

Saygrus will the trunk remain as massive as the pure jubea ?

Dear folks kindly let me know that and in above hybridisation

is there any combination which puts out trunk similar or even

bigger trunk than the Jubea pure trait ? iam very curious to

know this info..

thanks & Love,

Kris  :)

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TimHopper

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 09 2007,10:03)

QUOTE
Pollinating (hybrid) techniques:

I have watched Patrick S. pollinating techniques many times, and he goes to extream lengths to prevent contamination of unwanted pollen but sometimes there is some contamination anyway.  He removes the male flowers usually a day or two after the flower spath opens. Most of the male flowers are at the tips of the rachilla, usually the lower half, and these are cut off. He then maticuliously removes all male flowers which are attached to the rachilla amongst the female flowers. This process can sometimes take hours. When all the male flowers are removed, the inflorescence and the ajacent exposed areas are sprayed down with a garden hose to remove any lingering pollen.

After the inflorescence drys, it is sprayed with a 10% acohol solution to kill any more lingering pollen that may remain. The entire inflorescence is then bagged with a light, tight meshed canvas bag and tied very tightly around the base of the peduncle. This  prevents unwanted pollen and honey bees from getting to the female flowers. The female flowers are considerably larger than the males and usually are not receptive to pollenisation for about 10 days, depending on the weather.  Warmer weather speeds up the process.

A few days before the female flowers reach anthesis, the canvas bag is removed and a carefull check to see if any male flowers were missed and if so, they are removed, and once again washed with a garden hose and an acohol spray, then bagged again.

The female flowers are then closely watched for anthesis.  Sometimes they are ready all at once, others depending on the tempratures, they open in an irregular fashion, and a couple of pollinating procedures may be required.

In theory the only time the female flowers might be exposed to contamination to unwanted pollen is when the pollinating process is going on.  Sometimes there are a few hungry bees swarming around that have to be swated away during the process. The pollinating process is tedious as each female flower has to be brushed with pollen and this can take some time.

After pollinating, the inflorescence is once again bagged untill the fruit begins to form.  After the fruit is over pea sized, the bag is removed and then a screen is installed over the inflorescence to prevent squirrls from eating the fruit, and then there is a long waiting process for the fruit to mature.  With Jubaeas or Butias this can be a matter of months, with Syagrus up to 18 months, with Parajubaeas.....a long time.

With hybridising, it's a hit and miss proposition.  Often times only a small precentage of the hybrid seed will be viable, sometimes none at all. Some palms of the same species will be more receptive to hybridisation than others. This is an on going learning process and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.  Does temperature have anything to do with the success rate?  Was the pollen viable? Were the trees compatible? Was the timing  right? There are still a lot of unanswered questions to hybridising, and sometimes there seems to be no rhime or reason to the success rate.

Mind you.....all of this is usually taking place perched on the top of a tall ladder, squeezed in between fronds, in swealtering heat, swating honey bees, and it's tedious work, so if you think the hybrids are expensive, there is a very good reason. It's not easy.

After all this, there is the germinating process, then growing the seedlings up to a size where their adult characteristics began to show. This can take another 2 or 3 years. Excuse my spelling.....no spell checker here.

Dick

Dick, An excellent description of successful technique. The same techniques I have used minus the alcohol (although I usually have a cold beer). I am going to capture all of these steps with close-up descriptive photos which I will post in a couple of weeks. Im sure there are some folks out there that would like to give it a shot. You can use the same steps on many other compatible genera. Tim

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PalmGuyWC

Nigel,

As you stated earlier, I would put my neck on the block that my hybrid is a Jubaea X Butia, or possibably the other way around. There are many factors that make me believe this. The seed came to me through the Palm Society seed bank when Lucita Wait was running it, and she had recieved the seeds from Huntington Gardens. I recieved 5 seeds in 1973 and only one germinated. The cross was made by a man who was associated with Huntington Gardens at the time.  We contacted him years later and he had moved on to other things and didn't remember making the cross, so there is no way to determine which was the mother tree.

My inclination is to believe Jubaea was the mother tree, because, as I remember the seeds were fairly large and round like a Jubaea.  When the plant was smaller the tips of the fronds had distinct hooks on them as many Jubaeas have.

The tree is much larger than a "normal" Butia and it has a distinct blue/grey color. The trunk is thick too. The "boots" or leaf bases adhear to the trunk like a butia, but they are wide at the base like a Jubaea.

When the tree finally bloomed my doubts were dispelled as to whether it was a hybrid or not.  The spathes are covered with a rust collored tomentum as is a Jubaea.  The flowers are a bright wine color and the inside of the spath is wine colored for the first few days after opening. The seeds from the tree are round and fairly large.

Before Patrick started hybridising, the tree used to produce copious amounts of seeds and we assumed they were F2 hybrids..pollinated by itself.  We learned later that the tree was self sterile, as Patrick cleaned all the male flowers off an inflorescence and treated it as he would when hybridizing.  When he applied pollen from another inflorescence from the tree, not one seed was set. (He is going to do this again this year just to make darn sure). We now believe the flowers were pollinated by a couple of Butias which grow near by.  They are close enough to be air pollinated or by honey bees which cover the flowers when in bloom.

The earlier seeds that may have been sent out about 5 years ago, which we thought were F2's are most likely (Jubaea X Butia) X Butia.  I have one with  divided fronds and it looks mostly like a butia, but it has a very heavy texture and has a slightly different apperance from a Butia, but I can't describe it.

Patrick has applied various pollens on the tree, but so far only Butia and Syagrus have set seeds.  He had no luck with Parajubaea or Jubaea pollen, but I'm sure he will try again, and maybe other species if he can get the pollen.

It will be interesting to see how the Jubutiagrus will turn out.  I expect it will be a large, very cold hardy tree. The one I have has a heavy texture and it's grown very fast.

The real winner though, is the Butia X Parajubaea.  It's not an easy cross to do, but mine has grown fast, and has proven to be very cold hardy. At the moment, it's my most prized palm.

Dick

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merrill

Hi, Dick:

Thank you for your very thorough explanation: I can also attest to the difficulty as you describe.

We may have an advantage here in Florida because of our high humidity.  I use a large rasp to remove all of the teeth on the petiole, and a high quality clear plastic bag to enclose the inflorescence.  Condensation kills any extraneous pollen; alcohol is unnecessary in our case.  I have never been able to identify any outcrosses following this procedure; as you can imagine I watch for them very carefully. Any significant tear does produce outcrosses, of course  A now well-known corn breeder loudly scoffed at my using clear plastic bags, but they have worked very well here in N. FLA. This corn breeder WAS NOT Dr. Merle T. Jenkins. the world-famous late USDA corn breeder for whom I worked for several years in H. S & college as a breeding technician.

I dilute the pollen about 1:4 with corn starch. I modify a 10-ml disposable syringe needle by heating and removing the needle and smoothing and enlarging the bore of the plastic base of the needle with (your choice!) about a 3/64" drill.  Fill to about half the syringe w/ the diluted pollen, and use the syringe as a small duster.  I've gotten very high seed set this way.  I can save time by leaving the bag on the infructescence, cutting the outer corner of the bag, and blowing the pollen in from both ends of the bag.  Use wire from phone cable to tie the bags; it saves a lot of time.

In accordance w/ my understanding of the International Rules of Nomenclature, Everett (ex everettii) was the guy that joined me in the pollination of XJubutyagrus many years ago and his name is very appropriate in these circumstances: XJubutyagrus everettii.  

My good friends, It is far too early to pass judgment on the small pinnate seedling XJubutyagrus produced by Eric, the Curator of Palms at Leu Gardens. Considering. his expertise, the odds of its being as he says are excellent.  XButyagrus is exceedingly variable, much the same would be expected for XJubutyagrus, as I have observed on my two lonely mature XJubutyagrus..

Hi Krischar:

I hope I'm not intruding, but cytoplasmic inheritance seems to favor heavy trunks on Jubaea/Butia crosses, even though in my opinion, the Butia/Jubaea crosses are more attractive.  Colchicine or diethyl sulfate, anyone?

Hi, Nigel and Dick:

If you're talking about the same hybrid I remember, someone from Texas, Johnny Volk perhaps, counted anthers on that particular hybrid and the count strongly suggested BXJ.  The scientist at HBG sent BXJ seeds to various locations, including Florida,  I missed the Palm Society meeting where he handed out his progeny.  I feel a bit disloyal saying this, but it is too graceful to be JXB!

Best Wishes,

merrill

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Gtlevine

Merril, do you have a photo to post of your two mature palms, xJubutyagrus?

Gary

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richtrav

Gary

Here is a picture of one of Merrill's, taken last month:

xjubutyagrus.jpg

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Nigel

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 09 2007,13:41)

QUOTE
It will be interesting to see how the Jubutiagrus will turn out.  I expect it will be a large, very cold hardy tree. The one I have has a heavy texture and it's grown very fast.

The real winner though, is the Butia X Parajubaea.  It's not an easy cross to do, but mine has grown fast, and has proven to be very cold hardy. At the moment, it's my most prized palm.

Dick

Dick, I totally agree. Patricks Jubutyagrus here all have that heavy leaf , and a noticeably lighter green than butyagrus.

My ButiaxParajubaeas are my fastest growing pinnate palms.

My most prized palm though is the JubaeaxSyagrus that Patrick produced. An odd looking palm , very stocky with short wide leafs.

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NCpalmqueen

I find all this very fascinating and interesting.   To Merrill and Patrick and all those who perform these tedious crosses, kudos to you and Thank you.  Tim--Please do post photos of the pollinating process!  Merrill--Your jubutiagrus is fantastic!   Nigel--Please post photos of your crosses.....that parajub x sounds interesting.  I wonder if it takes heat better than parajubaea.

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TimHopper

Dick, I found photos of a couple of your hybrids. Are they JxB and BxP? Tim

dicksjxb.jpg

dicksbxp.jpg

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Gtlevine

(richtrav @ Apr. 09 2007,16:27)

QUOTE
Gary

Here is a picture of one of Merrill's, taken last month:

xjubutyagrus.jpg

WOW!

and WOW!, again. That is a stunning hybrid, very unusual and very attractive. Thanks for posting the photo.

Gary

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merrill

Hi, Richard:

Thank you for posting my XJubutyagrus everettii.  I'm beginning to realize that these Butiinae hybrids require much, much better feeding as they mature, especially here in N. Florida.  The plant you posted looks perfectly healthy, but the consecutive leaves are considerably smaller than a few years ago..  I plan to feed them better and improve their appearance now.  If you look around Florida. you'll see a lot of ratty, underfed XButyagrus.

BTW, the unilluminated trunk of the XJubutyagrus adds about 2.5 feet in height.  The trunk diameter is 22 inches.  I'm going to try to utilize my son's photographic memory to find out when the XJubutyagrus was planted.

.

BTW, the unilluminated trunk of the XJubutyagrus adds about 2.5 feet in height.

Hi, GTLevine:

Above (from R Travis) is what you asked for in your prior posting.  BTW, I'd certainly be very grateful for a copy of your California article on the Huntington XButyagrus hybrid.  Best Wishes,  Merrill

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Kris

Dear Merrill  :)

thanks for the information,and it seems that one has to

compromise between trunk size or beauty ! so its clear that

both the trait is not seen in the same Palm..

Love,

Kris  :)

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merrill

Hi, Kris:

I agree, but suppose someone might start in his 20's and figure out something.  In this pair, I'd try [bXJ]XJ.  perhaps you can convince Dick or Patrick to pollinate Dick's BXJ with J pollen.  I think that would be particularly attractive.   Best Wishes, merrill

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Kris

(merrill @ Apr. 10 2007,01:41)

QUOTE
Hi, Kris:

perhaps you can convince Dick or Patrick to pollinate Dick's BXJ with J pollen.  I think that would be particularly attractive.

Best Wishes, merrill

:)  :)

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PalmGuyWC

Wow!  There is a lot of information to be digested here. Merrill, I guess I haven't been paying close attention, as I didn't realize you had a mature Jubutagrus. It's absoultely stunning and I suppose about what I would expect one to look like. The first thing I noticed is that it has a clean trunk, unlike my  Bujubaea hybrid. I find this a very desirable trait.

From the information I have gleaned, I suppose my hybrid from seeds from Huntington B. Gardens is a Butia X Jubaea, so maybe it should be called a Bujubaea since the mother should be named first. Yes, Tim, the first photo that you retrieved is the "Bujubaea," and the second one is Butia X Parajubaea.

I agree, Merrill, there is quite a bit of variation in Butia X Syagrus.  I have 3 and they all look different.  Patrick informs me that so far, all the Butia X Parajubaeas seem to be uniform and look alike. I've seen pictures of others from the same seed lot and they all look just like mine. There are a couple of fellows in central Florida area that have some, and it will be interesting to see how they progress.

I think the B X P will be one of the best crosses of all. It's fast growing and has proven to be very cold hardy, and being half butia, it seems to take the summer heat too. Time will tell.

Nigel, I'm jealous that you have a Jubaea X Syagrus, since it came from MY Jubaea.  I haven't even seen one yet! I think Patrick has been successful in the past couple of years in crossing Syagrus X Jubaea, but they are still seedlings. This should be an interesting hybrid, particularly if the cytoplasmic trait kicks in. I can't even imagine what the hybrid will look like. So far, as I know, none of the plumose characteristics have shown up in any of the hybrids with Syagrus in them, but I can see a GIANT Syagrus looking tree that is super cold hardy. (sigh)  We shall soon see, but maybe wishfull thinking from me.

Dick

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