Jubutyagrus

[TimHopper 29]

I was pulling a few small weeds from my XJubutyagrus (((Jubaea x Butia)x Butia) x Syagrus R. var. Bonsal) seed bed yesterday, and was suprised to find about a dozen sprouts emerging. I was not expecting to see any up before at least march. Woo Hoo, really happy to see that they are viable and germinating. I'm curious to see what germination rate that I get over the next year. I planted 620 seeds in the bed, and covered with wire mesh to keep the squirrels out. I usually get my best overall germination from large box beds built right on top of the ground with landscape cloth on the bottom to keep the roots contained and critters out. I also put a few hundred earthworms in the bed too just to richen the soil and keep it aerated and organic. Tim

Edited February 20, 2009 by TimHopper

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Tim,

Congratulations on your germinating success. Maybe I should try your method since I have very poor luck germinating in pots. I have dozens of Butias and Syagrus (100's) germinating under the trees. I started using stable litter as a mulch a few years ago and seems that is the perfect medium to ensure germination of the seeds that fall to the ground.

Nice to see you have bumped this old thread to the top again. It is loaded with useful information. Nothing new on the hybridizing front from here. With winter and cool weather most of my palms are dormant. There are several trees holding imature seeds that were pollinated late last summer. The fruit quits growing in the cold weather but resumes growth with warm weather.

Dick

[iamjv 118]

Tim, congrats on this cross!!! Hey maybe you could post some shots of the germinating seeds.... and then other pics down the line of development.... Jv

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Tim,

I'm wondering how you extract your seedlings from your planing bed. Do you wait until they have several strap fronds, or dig them up and repot them as they show above the ground? I've found that Butia seedlings are easy to transplant even if I've broken off some of the roots.

Dick

[TimHopper 29]

Tim,

I'm wondering how you extract your seedlings from your planing bed. Do you wait until they have several strap fronds, or dig them up and repot them as they show above the ground? I've found that Butia seedlings are easy to transplant even if I've broken off some of the roots.

Dick

Dick, Seems that they can be removed from the bed at about any size while young taking care not to break the seed off before they have at least two leaves. I'm going to leave this bed alone for a while to let more sprout and get larger. I sure don't want try to transplant any before it gets warm. I'm expecting most of the germination to occur in May-June. Tim

[Kris 1,393]

Any new news in this field....?

[buffy 483]

No hybridizing news, but I can confirm that Jubutygrus is a HEAVY feeder and sensitive to deficiencies. I planted a seedling in pine bark mulch with a bit of perlite and soil. The uncomposted bark apparently started sucking up nutrients, because the palm started to lose older leaves and show spotting. I reversed the trend by adding kelp meal on top. Apparently those micros were exactly what was needed. I was down to two leaves this winter in the greenhouse. I've since pushed one out whole and started a new spear. It was a little dicey there for awhile. My same sized Jubu planted in the same exact conditions suffered similar problems, but not nearly as bad.

Lesson of the day: Using uncomposted pine bark can really strip a planting medium of nutrients.

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

There is no hybridizing news from N. Calif. Our palms are just waking up from winter and just begining to push out new spathes. The next news will be when the seeds that were harvested last autumn start germinating. Some of the palms that were pollinated late last summer will begin to grow again with some warmth. There are a few that carried seeds through the winter, and some of them may be very interesting.

Dick

[TimHopper 29]

I have about twenty xJubutyagrus seedlings popping up in the germination bed from last Summer's pollination. I am very happy that they were viable and germinating. I dug around just a little and found others just starting to sprout. In a month or two I will start digging some out and pot them up into one gallons. I want to wait until they have at least two leaves. I am pretty excited about these because I was able to use pollen from my massive Bonsal Queen in my garden. It's purely speculation at this point, but I expect these to be some excellent trees.Tim

Edited May 5, 2009 by TimHopper

[Alberto 1,619]

I was pulling a few small weeds from my XJubutyagrus (((Jubaea x Butia)x Butia) x Syagrus R. var. Bonsal) seed bed yesterday, and was suprised to find about a dozen sprouts emerging. I was not expecting to see any up before at least march. Woo Hoo, really happy to see that they are viable and germinating. I'm curious to see what germination rate that I get over the next year. I planted 620 seeds in the bed, and covered with wire mesh to keep the squirrels out. I usually get my best overall germination from large box beds built right on top of the ground with landscape cloth on the bottom to keep the roots contained and critters out. I also put a few hundred earthworms in the bed too just to richen the soil and keep it aerated and organic. Tim

Hi Tim,

When your seeds were harvested?

[TimHopper 29]

Alberto, The seeds were grown on three consecutive inflorescences last summer. The last batch was cleaned, dried for two weeks, then planted in mid-september. They have started germinating earlier than I anticipated. Tim

[TimHopper 29]

No hybridizing news, but I can confirm that Jubutygrus is a HEAVY feeder and sensitive to deficiencies. I planted a seedling in pine bark mulch with a bit of perlite and soil. The uncomposted bark apparently started sucking up nutrients, because the palm started to lose older leaves and show spotting. I reversed the trend by adding kelp meal on top. Apparently those micros were exactly what was needed. I was down to two leaves this winter in the greenhouse. I've since pushed one out whole and started a new spear. It was a little dicey there for awhile. My same sized Jubu planted in the same exact conditions suffered similar problems, but not nearly as bad.

Lesson of the day: Using uncomposted pine bark can really strip a planting medium of nutrients.

Dick. That is an amazing selection that you have there in your garden, I wish that I were your Neighbor. Tim

[Jeff zone 8 N.C. 36]

Tim, that should be a very cold hardy hybrid with the Bonsal Queen genes. Congratulations on your success.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Jeff zone 8 N.C.

[iamjv 118]

Tim, what do you mean by my 'Bonsal Queen" and how does it differ from a 'standard' Queen palm??? Thanks in advance. Jv

[merrill 408]

Hi, Johnny

During the last 35 years or so, the name "Bonsal Queen" has been applied to a wide variety of Queen forms.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited May 7, 2009 by merrill

[iamjv 118]

Thanks Merrill for the reply... any idea why that label would be applied to a queen??? Is it because they have a larger trunk or crown, more cold hardy???? Thanks in advance for your time. Jv

[merrill 408]

Hi, Johnny:

My apologies, but I haven't been able to glean any further info on these Queens. As I remember, they've been cited as both smaller AND larger than other queens. My computer search found nothing, another might do a better job; my computer is pretty cranky! For example, it is responsible for my occasional double posts.

My Best Wishes,

merrill

[Jeff zone 8 N.C. 36]

Thanks Merrill for the reply... any idea why that label would be applied to a queen??? Is it because they have a larger trunk or crown, more cold hardy???? Thanks in advance for your time. Jv

JV, as far as I know and can remember, that label came from a seed company in California that collected the seed from a Queen in Bonsal, California that had endured and survived more cold than others. I seem to remember that it also was supposed to hold more leaves and look robust. I ordered seeds from them a few years ago and can attest to the cold hardiness of this palm over the more typical Queen. I sprouted the seed, potted them into one gallon pots, then set them in half day sun near a greenhouse. When I went to move them inside for the winter they were rooted into the ground so I just left them in place and threw a loose and leaky piece of old greenhouse plastic covering over them for the winter. They ended up languishing like that for 2 or 3 years along with other Queen seedlings from several sources, with many dying from neglect, as I was busy with other more pressing needs. I finally potted them up into 3 gallon pots the summer before last. Of course all the queens took off and grew like weeds. They grew so well and had survived the previous winters easily as small plants even with half hearted protection, that I decided to overwintere them in a small coldframe with zero heat and in complete shade. They did not like that as the low got down to 14F outside so inside that coldframe was probably no better than 15F or 16F but with no wind. The Bonsal and Santa Caterina Queens survived the best even though all types showed heavy damage. All the queens lost their spears and all leaves so they were taken to the very edge of death. I think I remember some speculation that Bonsal, Santa Caterina, and Silver Queen are one and the same.

[TimHopper 29]

Eric Andersed at http://seedcoseeds.com/ sells queen seeds from trees labeled as "bonsal" which were originally collected in Bonsal California. About 9 years ago I bought some of these bonsal queen seeds after he recommended them for producing exceptional trees. Eric is from a long line of Nurserymen and knows his stuff. The seeds were no higher in price so I bought and germinated them. I have 5 of these 9 year olds planted in my home garden, and no doubt they rival my other queens from other sources. Generally, they are about 30 percent more massive in all respects regarding height, trunk girth, crown, leaflets. My largest bonsal is about 45 feet overall at 9 years old. Another source queen the same age is about 30 feet overall at the same age and identical care.I can't attest to any difference in cold hardiness as I have not seen temps here below 27f and none of my queens damage. The only negative quality that eventually shows up on all of my Bonsal queens is that when the trunk approaches maximum girth the base expands into sort of an elephant foot shape. Shortly after, the bottom 12 inches of trunk expolodes into a mass of air-roots trying to find the ground. It is a little unsightly to me, so I usually mound up some mulch around them and gradually add soil to change the planted height. I have decided to use my Bonsal queen pollen for my hybridizing efforts just because of the obvious growth and vigor advantage. Tim

Edited May 8, 2009 by TimHopper

[Jeff zone 8 N.C. 36]

Eric Andersed at http://seedcoseeds.com/ sells queen seeds from trees labeled as "bonsal" which were originally collected in Bonsal California. About 9 years ago I bought some of these bonsal queen seeds after he recommended them for producing exceptional trees. Eric is from a long line of Nurserymen and knows his stuff. The seeds were no higher in price so I bought and germinated them. I have 5 of these 9 year olds planted in my home garden, and no doubt they rival my other queens from other sources. Generally, they are about 30 percent more massive in all respects regarding height, trunk girth, crown, leaflets. My largest bonsal is about 45 feet overall at 9 years old. Another source queen the same age is about 30 feet overall at the same age and identical care.I can't attest to any difference in cold hardiness as I have not seen temps here below 27f and none of my queens damage. The only negative quality that eventually shows up on all of my Bonsal queens is that when the trunk approaches maximum girth the base expands into sort of an elephant foot shape. Shortly after, the bottom 12 inches of trunk expolodes into a mass of air-roots trying to find the ground. It is a little unsightly to me, so I usually mound up some mulch around them and gradually add soil to change the planted height. I have decided to use my Bonsal queen pollen for my hybridizing efforts just because of the obvious growth and vigor advantage. Tim

Thanks for that link Tim (Eric Andersen at http://seedcoseeds.com/ ) I could not remember when I wrote the above but Eric at Seedco was where my seeds came from.

[iamjv 118]

Jeff - thanks for the reply and recounting of your experiences with these queens. I do hope they've managed to survive and have fully recovered by now.

Tim - thanks for reposting that previous post. It'll be interesting to see what if any effects that pollen has on your hybrids.

Jv

[TimHopper 29]

My XJubutyagrus seedlings are really germinating well with the warm weather here. The seed bed is full of spikes producing the first leaf. It looks like the xButyagrus is going to germinate at a much higher percentile than my past xButyagrus seeds. It is very early to see this many seedlings in the bed. Tim

[Kris 1,393]

Dear Tim

Thanks for the update !

Love,

Kris

[TonyDFW 1,099]

Here are my Jubutyagrus, just planted this year.

This is my ButiaXJubea

Another image of it after 9 years from seed.

Here is my Jubea chilensis 16 years old from seed.

Other stuff.

Calypso Oleander

[iamjv 118]

Good to see you posting Tony.... jub is looking great! Jv

[millic 1]

Tony, where did you find your Jubutyagrus?

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Tony, where did you find your Jubutyagrus?

Millic,

Patric Schafer has some Jubutyagrus for sale, also a few Syagrus X (Butia X Jubaea) along with some other Cocoid hybrids. His E mail is PLS@Hughes.net

Patric is here this morning working on some palms. He discovered my tallest Jubaea has 2 emerging spathes, the first time it has bloomed. This makes 3 out of 4 Jubaeas that I have that are blooming. The bad new is he discovered that the Jubaea that has been blooming for years and has the most mature spathe that was about to open had its peduncle snap off at the base. He is going to remove it to collect pollen as it was about to open.

Dick

[iamjv 118]

Lets just hope the pollen had matured enough prior to this happening.... congrats on the others blooming for the first time. JV

[TonyDFW 1,099]

Tony, where did you find your Jubutyagrus?

I got them from Patric and Dick already gave you his contact info. Great quality plants and very well shipped.

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Jv,

Sometimes Patric will remove an unopened spathe from one of the Butias to keep the pollen from contaminating a nearby Butia that he is hybridizing. Usually this is a few days before we expected the spathe would open. If layed outside in a warm place the spathe will open in 2 or 3 days and they are always loaded wilth pollen when they open. I'm sure the pollen is viable. Usually when a spathe opens there is already a lot of loose pollen that has already been released before the spathe opens.

Dick

[iamjv 118]

Well it looks like Patric will have a lot of pollen to work with this year.... good news for the rest of us! Jv

[millic 1]

Thanks for the info guys!

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Not only is it tedious to work on Jubaea flowers, it's dangerous. My latest Jubaea to produce spathes is also my tallest. The spathes must be at least 35 feet above the ground, and they are difficult to reach. Patric put up an extention ladder the other day to get a closer look. The ladder was shakey and wobbly and not safe at all and he still needed another 4 or 5 feet to reach the flowers. I don't know how he will reach the flowers and have two hands to work with them, but I know he will try since there aren't that many Jubaea inflorescences to work with. He's gonna kill himself one of these days falling off a ladder. Some of the Syagrus are hard enough to reach.

We discussed renting a scaffold, but the flowers have to be revisited several times over several weeks and the cost of renting a scaffold would be prohibitive. I guess a taller more stable ladder will have to be purchased, but there are limits.

Dick

[ricky 2]

have you ever thought about putting a sky walk in dick it would give you a different look to the garden and make getting at those flowers a bit easier just an idea to think about

ricky

[iamjv 118]

It might be wise to see if tree or pole climbing safety equipment can be purchased so that he can at least secure himself to the tree once he gets up to those heights. (During these economic times it's amazing what is being sold and usually dirt cheap....) The guy that comes around and trims my washies has a safety belt that he wears and then can strap himself to the trunk of the palm... We truly appreciate all that Patric is doing but there is no sense in getting injured over this.... Jv

[GreenIslandPalms 8]

Not only is it tedious to work on Jubaea flowers, it's dangerous. My latest Jubaea to produce spathes is also my tallest. The spathes must be at least 35 feet above the ground, and they are difficult to reach. Patric put up an extention ladder the other day to get a closer look. The ladder was shakey and wobbly and not safe at all and he still needed another 4 or 5 feet to reach the flowers. I don't know how he will reach the flowers and have two hands to work with them, but I know he will try since there aren't that many Jubaea inflorescences to work with. He's gonna kill himself one of these days falling off a ladder. Some of the Syagrus are hard enough to reach.

We discussed renting a scaffold, but the flowers have to be revisited several times over several weeks and the cost of renting a scaffold would be prohibitive. I guess a taller more stable ladder will have to be purchased, but there are limits.

Dick

Dick,

If you need a more accesible(safe height) supply of Syagrus pollen, you and/or Patric are welcome to what would be an almost endless supply of queen pollen at our palm nursery in Gilroy. We are just about over an hour south of you and right on the 101. We have several thousand queen's on our property, and some really incredible specimens that are flowering with nearly 30 inch wide trunks like the ones pictured. I find the work you and Patric are doing with hybrid cocoides fascinating, and just thought I would extend the offer if you guys were interested.

Mike

[PalmGuyWC 1,486]

Mike,

Thanks for your generous offer, but I have a couple of Queens where the flowers can be reached. Also recently we discovered some young Queens growing by a friend's pool and they bloomed for the first time last year. Patric has already crossed a couple with some other cocoids. I would still like to see your opperation sometime.

To be accurate, I don't do any of the hybridizing as Patric does all the work. I just watch what he's doing and try to chronical it on Palm Talk.

Regards,

Dick

[TimHopper 29]

xJubutyagrus Seedlings

This project has been some time in the making, but I finally have a number of xButyagrus seedlings. Germination rates were at about 30% and subsequent seedlings have been strong growers and unaffected by freezing temps to about 26 degrees. I am growing them outdoors so that they are hardened off and ready to transplant this Summer. Tim Hopper

Edited March 11, 2010 by TimHopper

[Mark Heath 34]

Congratulations Tim!!

It will be quite some time before i can pollinate my BXJXB palms! I look forward to that time!

Good job!!!

Mark

[TimHopper 29]

Mark, With a little push with good fertilizer, My BxJxB seedsed in about 7 years. Tim