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TimHopper

Jubutyagrus

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PalmGuyWC

Hello Charles,

You must have the perfect growing conditions for the cocoid hybrids. They are all beautiful, and thanks for posting the photos. You were very lucky to get Nigel's Jubaea X Syagrus, as I think Patrick told me he only got less than 10 seeds to germinate. Mine is much smaller than yours and you must have gotten the first crop. It sure is a strange looking palm and yours is the largest I've seen.

I remember when you posted a picture of your Syagrus X (Butia X Jubaea) last year and it only had strap fronds. It sure has grown a lot. Also, you have the largest Butia Paraguensis X Syagrus I've seen. No one knows what the mature palm will look like, but my Butia Paraguensis looks quite different from the other Butias, with a very fat, squat trunk, and the heaviest textured Butia I have. The flowers are magenta colored and quite beautiful.

How about a picture of your Butia X Parajubaea? Mine has grown incredably fast and is now taller than my head. Thanks again for the photos. You must be the cocoid hybrid king!

Dick

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Charles Wychgel
You were very lucky to get Nigel's Jubaea X Syagrus, as I think Patrick told me he only got less than 10 seeds to germinate. Mine is much smaller than yours and you must have gotten the first crop. It sure is a strange looking palm and yours is the largest I've seen.

No one knows what the mature palm will look like, but my Butia Paraguensis looks quite different from the other Butias, with a very fat, squat trunk, and the heaviest textured Butia I have. The flowers are magenta colored and quite beautiful.

How about a picture of your Butia X Parajubaea? Mine has grown incredably fast and is now taller than my head.

Dick

I was lucky indeed when I got my hybrid palms from Nigel, as he was the only one that imported larger plants from the USA.

I do get green with envy when I see what is available in the palm market in your country be it exotic Dypsis or rare hybrids in any size, you have everything money can buy while in Europe it is mostly seedlings and young plants, though I must admit in the Canary islands the situation is improving every year!

I posted a pic of my ButiaxParajubaea in the other thread it is not bigger than yours maybe only 1,50 meter.

Love to see a pic of your Butia paraguensis btw.

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iamjv

Hey Charles thanks for those wonderful high-res pictures of your hybrids. It'll be interesting to see, over the next few years, how all these hybrids mature. Look forward to seeing future posts and pics. Jv

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merrill

Several palm breeders have reported that JXB and [JXB]XB are self sterile as have I. OTOH, [(JXB)XB]XB has been reported by several to be reasonably fertile when self pollnated or Sibling pollinated. It will be extremely interesting too see what kind of segregation is shown amongst these Selfs and Siblings.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited by merrill
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Alberto
There is another cross that may have been successful, but it's "TOP SECRET" but I'm not allowed to mention it yet. (It could be a total dud, but seeds are forming, but it's to early to tell yet. Dick

Please tell me he crossed Butia w/ Cocos. Please. The freakin' holy grail. Can I call shotgun on that. If so, "shotgun".

When you say Cocos you means Cocos nucifera??? Not Syagrus (Cocos) romanzoffiana ????? Butia x Cocos nucifera is the Holy Gray!

What intersting crosses to try:Butia x Cocos nucifera ,Parajubaea cocoides or other sp x Cocos nucifera, Butia x Jubaeopsis caffra.......

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merrill

Hi, Alberto:

Even tho I never saw a hint of compatibility between Cocos and Butia, that would be a sure thing compared to Jubaeopsis and Butia. My favorite cytogeneticist opined that there was little or no sexual activity by Jubaeopsis, that it was a collection of one or more asexual clones, which was fascinating to me! All of this was a result of the outlandish number of chromosomes of Jubaeopsis.

Best Wishes,

merrill

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Mark Heath
There is another cross that may have been successful, but it's "TOP SECRET" but I'm not allowed to mention it yet. (It could be a total dud, but seeds are forming, but it's to early to tell yet. Dick

Please tell me he crossed Butia w/ Cocos. Please. The freakin' holy grail. Can I call shotgun on that. If so, "shotgun".

When you say Cocos you means Cocos nucifera??? Not Syagrus (Cocos) romanzoffiana ????? Butia x Cocos nucifera is the Holy Gray!

What intersting crosses to try:Butia x Cocos nucifera ,Parajubaea cocoides or other sp x Cocos nucifera, Butia x Jubaeopsis caffra.......

I pollinated my Butia.C w/ Cocos.N pollen this year and recieved 5 seeds. I have them sown but none have germinated so far. W/ winter coming i suppose it'll be next year if/when they germinate. I'll try it again next spring but i will keep everyone posted.

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edbrown_III

But what is this

post-562-1226846143_thumb.jpg

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PalmGuyWC

Mark,

Earlier this year you posted a picture of what you thought was an accidental Butia X Coconut cross. It sure looked like one. How is that palm doing? We would sure like to watch the progress of that hybrid. Years ago they tried to cross a Coconut with Jubaopsis at Fairchild Gardens. The Jubaeopsis pollen was sent from S. Calif. The cross was unsuccessful, however we know that some individuals of a species are more receptive to foreign pollen than others. Also sometimes a cross will work one way and not the other. I wonder if anyone has tried to used Jubaeopsis as the mother plant?

Dick

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PalmGuyWC

Ed,

We must be on the same wave length. You posted the pics of the Butia X Coconut while I was writing my letter.

Dick

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Alberto

Coconuts....coconuts...where is a flowering coconuuut????? YES! I´ll try to make this hybrid!!!!!1

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edbrown_III
Ed,

We must be on the same wave length. You posted the pics of the Butia X Coconut while I was writing my letter.

Dick

Dick,

Yes ---- collective conscienous of the IPS I reckon.... Heres a photo of one of Patricks Jubbutyagrus next to another hybrid to bring it back on thread

Best regards,

Ed

post-562-1226854074_thumb.jpg

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edbrown_III
Coconuts....coconuts...where is a flowering coconuuut????? YES! I´ll try to make this hybrid!!!!!1

Alberto

we all are... like Mark we all are... I have a few incubating also---

Like Patrick its a 500 km trip to get pollen where thy flower.

Best regars,

Ed

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merrill

Hi, Ed:

I really like the palm in Posts 248 and 249. What were the parents? If the mother was Butia, that palm certainly looks like what one would expect of Butia X Cocos. Please keep us informed! Will you hazard a prediction as to its fertility/sterility?

Best Wishes,

merrill

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Alberto
Coconuts....coconuts...where is a flowering coconuuut????? YES! I´ll try to make this hybrid!!!!!1

Alberto

we all are... like Mark we all are... I have a few incubating also---

Like Patrick its a 500 km trip to get pollen where thy flower.

Best regars,

Ed

For me it´s a 200 km trip. I see them flowering every vacation at the beach in Guaratuba. This year...wait for me coconuts!!!

Ed,what means: ´´I have a few incubating also---´´ Do you have hybrid seeds incubating?

What is that palm seedling above(post 249). It´s large strap leaves are intrigating!.................

Edited by Alberto

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edbrown_III
Coconuts....coconuts...where is a flowering coconuuut????? YES! I´ll try to make this hybrid!!!!!1

Alberto

we all are... like Mark we all are... I have a few incubating also---

Like Patrick its a 500 km trip to get pollen where thy flower.

Best regars,

Ed

For me it´s a 200 km trip. I see them flowering every vacation at the beach in Guaratuba. This year...wait for me coconuts!!!

Ed,what means: ´´I have a few incubating also---´´ Do you have hybrid seeds incubating?

What is that palm seedling above(post 249). It´s large strap leaves are intrigating!.................

Alberto, & Merrill,

those are at Marks place Butia seed but definitively some hybrid-- putative Butiax Cocos

I have been applying Cocos pollen for the past several years to various Butias to see if any sucess. as is other folks. some of the seeds are incubating now --- theres several of us trying this-- perhaps it will pan out.

Best regards,

Ed

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Nigel

Wow........ butias and coconuts growing everywhere together here, no putative hybrids but another new project for me !!!

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Mark Heath

Thank you Ed for reposting the pics for me. Out of thousands of XButiagruss' that lone one looks like that. I have two large flowering/fruiting Cocos Nuciferas here at my home. Also, i allways wait for the second day of anthesis to polinate

so all of the female flowers are receptive and i don't waist pollen. I have only two flowering Butias here so contamination is not an issue. Maybe, just maybe a bee pollinated the butia w/ Cocos pollen,(i hope)!!

I will add that the fronds are very thick and wide, they feel and look just like a young Cocos. They a 9inches wide and showing "windows".

Dick, i'll baby that palm and maybe in a few years we will be able to reconize " Who's the baby daddy"!!!!!

Merrill,

I hope one day soon i can finally get you to visit, i need for YOU to see this palm up close, i think you'll be impressed

and probably confused just like Ed and I.

Phil Bergman,

I'm hoping that someone can convince a big wig in botany to come over here and help us out. We just might have the

"California Coconut"!!!!!

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PalmGuyWC

Mark,

The "experts" said it couldn't be done, but just from the photographs alone, I'd bet that's a Butia X Coconut hybrid. If so, it may prove to be pretty cold hardy, but if you expect any real cold this winter, I hope you at least throw a sheet over it. That palm is to valueable to take any chances.

Dick

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Mark Heath
Mark,

The "experts" said it couldn't be done, but just from the photographs alone, I'd bet that's a Butia X Coconut hybrid. If so, it may prove to be pretty cold hardy, but if you expect any real cold this winter, I hope you at least throw a sheet over it. That palm is to valueable to take any chances.

Dick

Dick, i agree, i'll baby that sucker!!! I just measured the latest new frond and it is 12inches wide and still has windows.

It has a few semi-pinnate fronds. Who knows, i hope that this is what i think it is!!! But it was an accident!!! I have performed the cross BXCocos this year and i am still waiting for germination. I'll try it agaim next year! I just harvested Cocos. Nucifera pollen today and i am baking it as we speak!! If anyone knows of a botanist who would/could indentify it, please send them my way, if anybody here was to see the palm in person you would really think it was a BXC.N. I have two other ones that are showing the same traits but they're smaller 3gallon size, so i'll wait and keep an eye on them to see if they resemble the Cocos more and more each year or not.

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merrill

H, Mark:

Congratulations for the Cocos hybrid! It is ironic, and wonderful, that you have this as a volunteer! Please give it every encouragement. When do you think it will bloom? It will be fascinating to see what fruit/seed, if any, it has.

There is a personal message to you on the IPS Board

Best Wishes.

merrill

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Mark Heath
H, Mark:

Congratulations for the Cocos hybrid! It is ironic, and wonderful, that you have this as a volunteer! Please give it every encouragement. When do you think it will bloom? It will be fascinating to see what fruit/seed, if any, it has.

There is a personal message to you on the IPS Board

Best Wishes.

merrill

Hello Merrill,

I fear that when it blooms is when we will finally know the truth. I just don't want to wait that long!!!! The base is a little larger than a 4inch diameter pipe, so we have a while to wait.

Also, I'm getting ready to add another large Butia.C here at my property, so i'm going to have to bag my inflorescences

from now on when it restarts producing inflorescences again after transplanting.

Maybe we will know if the seeds that i spoke of germinate!!

BTW, I have pollinated my Cocos at different times w/ Syagrus and Butia pollen w/ zero success. I even tried Cocos pollen on my Queen w/ zero success. The only time i have had seeds set is when i pollinated my Butia w/ Cocos pollen.

I also used half frozen and half fresh Cocos pollen, that is when i harvested 5 seeds. The two flowering Cocos produce copious amounts of inflorescences!!! Next spring is going to be exciting for me!!

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PalmGuyWC

Mark,

I expect you will be able to identify who the "daddy" was well before your hybrid blooms. Once it produces divided fronds the adult characteristics should show. Are the Coconuts you grow Malay dwarfs or tall greens? It may be that you have a Coconut that is more compatible with Butia than the others. Also, is your hybrid a fast grower or slow?

Dick

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Mark Heath

Hello Dick,

I suspect that my Coco that was flowering profusly at the time is a Green Maypan.. It does'nt have the traditional "swollen" trunk that a dwarf does. I could be wrong though!!! The hybrid in question grows slow, much to my dismay!! It does though have a few pinnate fronds and they look like a Cocos!!!! The Hybrid is solid green!! Next year i'll post more pics so you can see what i'm talking about. I don't think it's gonna grow much during the winter like my BXP does!

BTW, the other Cocos that is flowering is a cross between a gold and a green, right in the middle!! It has about 10ft of clean trunk.

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iamjv

Hey Mark,

Good looking palm!!! Can you tell us when that palm germinated and how long have you had it in the ground???? Thanks. Jv

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Mark Heath
Hey Mark,

Good looking palm!!! Can you tell us when that palm germinated and how long have you had it in the ground???? Thanks. Jv

Hey JV

The hybrid is four years old and has been in the ground for two. this past year it has sped up a bit due to the roots getting established. Hopefully it will take off like a rocket next year and i'll keep you posted. We here in Florida usually don't see cold weather untill December, but this year it came early. So therefoe we lost a cpl of months of growing season.

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iamjv

Mark thanks for the update on the palm. Look forward to seeing it grow and prosper in your garden. Yes indeed winter has come early to Florida... I saw Jacksonville went down to 27F this morning. Jv

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Alberto

To stay ´´on topic´´ here are pics of my 2 best Jubutyagrus:

Number 1:

post-465-1227369918_thumb.jpg

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Alberto

And the oldest and biggest:

post-465-1227370263_thumb.jpg

Edited by Alberto

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Alberto

Same palm in perspective;

post-465-1227370516_thumb.jpg

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HKO2008

Oh my god!!!

Cannot wait till my jubutyagrus arrives.

What kind of palms did you use Alberto? Butia Eriospatha in the mix?

Henri

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Alberto
Oh my god!!!

Cannot wait till my jubutyagrus arrives.

What kind of palms did you use Alberto? Butia Eriospatha in the mix?

Henri

Henri, the seeds came from Patric Schaffer.

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HKO2008

Hello Alberto,

it seems Patric is the source of a lot of hybrids. Nice to see your jubutiagrus is doing fine in Parana state Brazil. What wintertemps do you have? A lot of frosts?

Henri

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PalmGuyWC

Be carefull what you wish for. I have a "mature" palm garden that was started in 1974. All of the palms are big now and I've run out of planting room. The hybrids were not available when I started planting. I was lucky enough to grow a Butia X Jubaea and 3 Butiagrus and they are large palms now. As winter is approaching the sun angle is very low and the areas in my garden that got full sun in the summer are now shaded which lowers the daytime tempetures. If available when I started, my garden would be full of the cocoid hybrids which would be unique and able to take my winter lows.

The good new is.......I have a friend who lives not to far from me and he has over an acre that is open. It used to be a vegitable garden and it's very valueable real estate, but now instead of selling the property, he wants to make it a garden. After seeing my garden, he's been stung by the palm bug. He already has some very nice Syagrus growing around his pool area and the vacant property is just behind a wall from his pool area.

I have already given my friend some Butias, Braheas, Parajubaeas, etc. and I hope soon he will be ready to plant some hybrids and some Jubaeas. He has canal water so he has an unlimited water supply in the summer. I'm very excited to see a new palm garden with bamboo and a lot of other things spring up near me. The garden hasn't been designed yet, but it will be soon, and hopefully palms can be planted next year. I have a couple of rare cocoid hybrids that I have no room for, so they will be going into his garden soon where they will have good soil, plenty of sunlight and room to grow. There will be lots of berms in his flat garden and some huge bolders brought in. My friends brother-in-law owns a large construction company with heavy equipment to haul in the soil and bolders, etc.

You will be hearing a lot about this garden in the near future with before and after photos.

Dick

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iamjv

Dick, that sounds like a great palm project and garden to be!!! Should turn out to be a wonderful temperate palm garden. We'll look forward to pics... Jv

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HKO2008

Dick,

running out of space is the first problem palm enthousiast encounter, it seems. I wish you all the luck in getting that property full of palms, hybrids and palm trials.

Henri

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PalmGuyWC

I should mention that my friend has some very nice Syagrus R. with very fat trunks and unusual fronds that differ from the norm. They have trunks but have bloomed for the first time this year and the flowers are easy to reach. Patrick Schaffer has access to these palms and he's already crossed two of them. We will have to wait until next year to see the results. One was crossed with Jubaea, and the other.......a surprise!! :)

Dick

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HKO2008

I found pictures of Tim Hopper.

I also found a picture in his Butyagrus album. I believe this is a jubutyagrus or bujubyagrus at Merrill's place

Jubutyagrus 1

We all know this one

Jubutyagrus 2

am i wrong?

Edited by HKO2008

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merrill

Hi, HKO:

Don't remember seeing #1; looks too hilly to be FL. What can you tell us, please?

Best Wishes,

merrill

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