Jump to content
TimHopper

Jubutyagrus

Recommended Posts

Kris

Dear Gaston  :)

thanks for those Jubea stills & info's on their longavity...

really nice to know about that.

thanks & love,

Kris  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
palmmermaid

(STEVE IN SO CAL @ Apr. 08 2007,11:49)

QUOTE

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 08 2007,08:57)

QUOTE
Yo Steve,

"Draft Mule Palm" is such an inelegant name for what should be a very spectacular hybrid. Let's stick with Jubutyagrus which has a nice ring to it and is more descriptive. I'm from Georgia and I'm familiar with mules, an animal that I suspect most people have never even seen. They are a big, ugly animal with floppy ears and there is nothing elegant about them at all.  They are butt ugly.

I have never liked the term "Mule palm," for Butia X Syagrus......because there is just nothing pretty about a mule except they are strong, trainable, and do hard work. There is a term in the South, "As stubborn as a Mule."  How could they be otherwise when the father is known as a Jackass?

Also, let's not confuse Jubutyagrus with Jubaea X Syagrus or Syagrus X Jubaea.  I have yet to see a picture of the latter two.

Dick

Dick...after 25 years as a proffessional farrier, I understand EXACTLY where you're coming from.. :D

My only argument would be that 'Mule Palm' is already deeply ingrained in the palm lexicon, putting the 'Draft' in front only helps to differentiate the two.

As a lad in KY, we had draft mules...and I only have fond memories of them pulling us on a hayride. Struggling to pull us up Hog Nob Hill, shoes clacking on the rocky grade, the driver cracking his whip above their heads yelling "Hup mike...hup Joe...get up there...hup...hup...get on, get on..hup hup".... their straining muscles glistening beneath the sweat brought on by that summer heat and humidity. And then the driver stopping for a few minutes after reaching the summit, to give these beasts of burden a well deserved rest....their rib cages expanding and contracting as they sucked in air, trying to replace oxygen that had left their strained muscles. I remember the contrast of what seemed like cruelty on the way up, tempered by a surprise show of kindness afterwards. I thought(and still do) they were impressive creatures, as I feel this palm will be...

I still get goose bumps when I think of it....

Steve,

I didn't realize you were a farrier.  Interesting.  I have 2 horses and my farrier is a lady from Tennessee.  She is great.

I wondered why you knew about the draft mules and now I know.    And you are right, they are amazing.  We used one to plow when I was a little girl in the Florida Panhandle.   And I rode one from the rim of the Grand Canyon to the bottom and back up.  That is a narrow trail and I never felt uncomfortable on it.

So I like the name "draft mule".  It implies strength and beauty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gtlevine

Tim, this was a fantastic post and I really enjoyed learning about the process through photography.

Thanks,

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swolf

Thanks to Gaston and Merrill for the longevity information.  Given the youth of America, clearly the answers need to come from abroad.  

As to Jubaea hybrids, questions remain about how longevity genes are manifest.  Time will tell.  We need a volunteer to monitor these hybrids long-term and report back

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
iamjv

Hey Gaston,

 Thanks for the info.  Is there any way that you could translate/summarize the jubaea palm info fromt the link you posted????

 Also, am I reading the photos info correct???  It seams as thought the 'concon' jubaea  photo shows the palm at a muture stage in 1890 and then the follow up picture in 2005 says it's 115 years old...  something seems to be wrong with the aging of the palm/pictures.

Thanks in advance,  Jv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
STEVE IN SO CAL

(palmmermaid @ May 21 2007,09:02)

QUOTE

(STEVE IN SO CAL @ Apr. 08 2007,11:49)

QUOTE

(PalmGuyWC @ Apr. 08 2007,08:57)

QUOTE
Yo Steve,

"Draft Mule Palm" is such an inelegant name for what should be a very spectacular hybrid. Let's stick with Jubutyagrus which has a nice ring to it and is more descriptive. I'm from Georgia and I'm familiar with mules, an animal that I suspect most people have never even seen. They are a big, ugly animal with floppy ears and there is nothing elegant about them at all.  They are butt ugly.

I have never liked the term "Mule palm," for Butia X Syagrus......because there is just nothing pretty about a mule except they are strong, trainable, and do hard work. There is a term in the South, "As stubborn as a Mule."  How could they be otherwise when the father is known as a Jackass?

Also, let's not confuse Jubutyagrus with Jubaea X Syagrus or Syagrus X Jubaea.  I have yet to see a picture of the latter two.

Dick

Dick...after 25 years as a proffessional farrier, I understand EXACTLY where you're coming from.. :D

My only argument would be that 'Mule Palm' is already deeply ingrained in the palm lexicon, putting the 'Draft' in front only helps to differentiate the two.

As a lad in KY, we had draft mules...and I only have fond memories of them pulling us on a hayride. Struggling to pull us up Hog Nob Hill, shoes clacking on the rocky grade, the driver cracking his whip above their heads yelling "Hup mike...hup Joe...get up there...hup...hup...get on, get on..hup hup".... their straining muscles glistening beneath the sweat brought on by that summer heat and humidity. And then the driver stopping for a few minutes after reaching the summit, to give these beasts of burden a well deserved rest....their rib cages expanding and contracting as they sucked in air, trying to replace oxygen that had left their strained muscles. I remember the contrast of what seemed like cruelty on the way up, tempered by a surprise show of kindness afterwards. I thought(and still do) they were impressive creatures, as I feel this palm will be...

I still get goose bumps when I think of it....

Steve,

I didn't realize you were a farrier.  Interesting.  I have 2 horses and my farrier is a lady from Tennessee.  She is great.

I wondered why you knew about the draft mules and now I know.    And you are right, they are amazing.  We used one to plow when I was a little girl in the Florida Panhandle.   And I rode one from the rim of the Grand Canyon to the bottom and back up.  That is a narrow trail and I never felt uncomfortable on it.

So I like the name "draft mule".  It implies strength and beauty.

Kitty...that makes two of us  :)

I will call them Draft Mule Palms, anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gaston in Argentina

JV

I dont know why but the link doesnt address to the right text for the pics if not a map where the Jubaeas are located in Chile.- The text tell about the records of this same palms.-

The yellowed picture of 1890 show the same Jubaea palm in Concon town then the another picture of the same, taken in 2005 and have the same size! So, it have the same size then 115 years ago.- The website is about this and another two tall Jubaeas in the town were pre-hispanic, also tell that the name of the place "concon" can come from the old indian name for the Jubaea palm "can - can", they say that the old trunks base show some marks and holes that are probably the dammage by a naval battle in 1891.-

The palm showed in the bottom pic show the older and taller palm, taller then "la capitana" and was knew for sure by the fundator of the city in 1544 Juan Bohon.-

The palm has a diameter of 160 cmts. (1,6 metres).- The owner of the garden where this old Jubaea is located said that under their shade was resting Pedro de Valdivia, fundator of the city in 1541.- Show another pic of the same but from the bottom of the monster.-48_12b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gaston in Argentina

Another angle...

Im sorry Tim because is out of the JubaeaButiagrus hibrid topic but in response about the age of the palms i always like to show this picture of famous THE FIVE PALMS OF GARCILAZO seen by Alcides D´orbigny in 1832 and that are all still alive.- They are Parajubaea torallyi var. microcarpa, the mother is the taller and its doughters the four rest.- His words in his book the naturalist D´Orbigny describing the specie telling "there´s five palms, the one very tall".-

I used to say that in the trunk at the heigt more then where a man today cannot write (aprox. 3,5 to 4 metres) someone write "1910" in the outer bark.-

.- For to know the size NOTE THE PERSON the bottom of the palm for the scale.- I unknow if were visited by the modern palm people but should be more visited during this days.- I was there and would recomend it.-

microcarpaiomg7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimHopper

Gaston, Since Jubaea is the original mother of XJubutyagrus I think you are on topic. I am very much enjoying the photos and history that you have posted. In consideration of longevity and extreme cold hardiness, Jubaea is a great palm to hybridize.

Gary, Thanks and I'm also following the thread of your Madagascar expedition. Amazing photos! Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

Hi, Gaston:

Thank you very much for the photos of your ancient cocosoid palms of South America.  It will probably take ten to twenty human generations to see how these cocosoid gems will fare in the Northern hemisphere.  In North Florida and South Georgia we can grow quite a few of the South American Butia, including those of the most interest to many of us.  Gary is trying several of them in No. Carolina.  I even have hopes for Attalea dubia, to be grown to about 12 ft. height in the greenhouse before planting out (or moving greenhouse!).  Do you think there is hope for A. dubia here in North Florida?

To Martin Farris:

The dense fiber on your fourth photo posted on May 20 seems very characteristic of Butia containing Jubaea heritance.  Elsewhere, it is observed even on ([{JXB}XB]XB)XB, listing the mother first. In Florida we have a very few Butia with this fiber that haven't yet been identified as diluted JXB etc. They had not yet appeared thirty years ago.  Almost every Butia I've seen with these fibers could be traced to Jubaea parentage.

A few of our native palmate palms in the SE U. S. are more coldhardy than these cocosoid South American palms. Sabal minor and the needle palm are perhaps the world's cold-hardiest palms.  The Needle palm is particularly attractive, but has a rather high heat requirement. Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjff

Merrill,

Thanks for the response, I was debating with my landscaper (who has about 30 years of experience with palms) whether all 4 were pure Butia.  It won't bother me a bit if 2 are JXB.  I guess we'll see when/if they flower.  What kind of fruit does a JXB produce?  Is it edible?  How old are they when they first flower typically?  Will they pollinate each other, or will the nearby Butia's have to take care of that?  Can a JXB pollinate a pure Butia?  Thanks again for the info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimHopper

Here are a couple of updated photos showing the fruit beginning to form. You can see that many of the flowers that did not accept the pollen have fallen off. Tim

MVC-009S.jpg

MVC-010S.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
STEVE IN SO CAL

Tim...maybe you should have tried spraying those female flowers with a little Tequila ...always worked for me in the past  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

Hi, Martin:

My (JXB)XB fruit and FTG JXB fruit are well-flavored, but the squirrels eat the pure Butia first.

I don't know the age of the JXB at FTG when it first bloomed.  The F2 seem to bloom at about the same age as Butia itself, at which time they're larger than Butia itself.

Since my (JXB)XB almost never self-pollinates, (JXB)XB may not make sib crosses.  Quien Sabe?.  My {[JXB]XB}XB seem to cross and self with total abandon, a rare experience!

OTOH, I got a BX(JXB) fairly easily.

This is based on VERY small populations!

Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kris

(merrill @ May 23 2007,01:13)

QUOTE
but the squirrels eat the pure Butia first.

i fully accept this fact as i see those guys wreck havoc on the

ripening seeds in our phoenix sylversters sp.and lost lots of

seeds to the squrieal damage and some droped out fast due to rainfall !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gaston in Argentina

(merrill @ May 22 2007,09:39)

QUOTE
Hi, Gaston:

 It will probably take ten to twenty human generations to see how these cocosoid gems will fare in the Northern hemisphere.  In North Florida and South Georgia we can grow quite a few of the South American Butia, including those of the most interest to many of us.  Gary is trying several of them in No. Carolina.  I even have hopes for Attalea dubia, to be grown to about 12 ft. height in the greenhouse before planting out (or moving greenhouse!).  Do you think there is hope for A. dubia here in North Florida?

Hi Merrill.

About Attaleas im surprised that mine small (1 metre tall) A. phalerata is still alive after 3 years of planted in the ground.- Ok, they werent the coldest winters but... It was partially defoliated by some freezes one winter but recovered quickly and seems to get surprisely more tolerance to cold with the age and size.-

I havent A. dubia on the ground and i must to wait a bigger size for plant them.- I get my hope on this specie since i saw the Alberto Barkema picture of one growing in an Araucaria angustifolia forest in the tableland of South Brazil, a place that is colder then here and perhaps more simmilar then northern Florida.- Those i saw in wild grew in mountains near Florianopolis, a place where Cocos nucifera grow.-

Do you know if someone have tried Attalea speciosa in outdoor around there? That´s espectacular palm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mjff

Merrill,

Thanks again for the reply.  What kind of fruit does the JXB produce though?  Fruit like a Jubaea or like a Butia or something entirely different?  

No squirrels near my house, so I guess I'll have it all to myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

Hi, Gaston:

Perhaps we North Americans hesitated to try Attalea, including its formerly separated genera,  because they were so spectacular we assumed they were very tender.  At least, that is why I didn't try them 35 years ago!  I'm trying to investigate specimens in the U. S. further.  Apparently there are several A. speciosa at Fairchild TG.  Best Wishes,  merrill

Hi, Martin:

As I remember, the FTG JXB fruit were quite similar to Butia, as mine through ([JXB]XB)XB have been.  These are a close second to Butia for the squirrels, which will drink the milk from 800 seed a day, if allowed to.  It usually takes a while for squirrels to figure out how good the milk is, but once they have, they are EXTREMELY aggressive for the milk.  Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nigel

So Tim....... I am itching to know........ do you have good seeds ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmGuyWC

I have just read again all 5 sections of this thread.  I think it's the most extensive discussion available concerning hybridizing the cocoid group of palms, and techniques of how to do it. Tim Hoopers pictoral account of his pollenization techniques is excellent. I guess the web is a fluid and ever moving thing, but it's a shame all this information can't be permanently saved, even if it does twist and turn from the original subject. Gaston sent in some great information and pictures of Jubaeas and Parajubaeas.

I guess this is an unfolding story, as new hybrids are being createated and new information gleened.  Let's try to keep this thread going, and for those of you who are working on the hybrids, keep the information flowing.

Cool weather is here in N. Calif., so most of my growth is over for the year, but about next spring, lets send in pictures of our hybrids, how they survived the winter, how much they have grown, etc.

And, yes, Nigel, there are new, great hybrid seeds in the pipe line.

Dick

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swolf

While we wait for an update from Tim on his butyagrus backcross, maybe someone can clear up my novice confusion about 'mules' and sterility.  From what I've gathered so far, a palm may be sterile in one context (e.g. self-sterile) but fertile in another.  Even in a capacity where it's considered sterile, low probability exceptions (such as the mule backcrossed with Queen) may still be possible.

I wonder if these mule hybrids can more readily 'father' palms (pollen donors)?  I don't know if there's difference between Jubutyagrus and butyagrus toward the answer.  Has Merrill ever used the pollen from one of his mature Jubutyagrus to pollinate another palm?

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmGuyWC

Steve,

Those are very interesting questions you have asked, and I'm somewhat confussed on the subject myself. I expect Merrill will have a more definitive answer for you.

I have a Butia X Jubaea that's been blooming for about 15 years. Before Patrick Schafer started his hybridizing program about 7 years ago, the tree used to set copious amounts of seeds. I could kick myself now for not trying to germinate any of the seeds, but my interests were in other directions then. We always assumed the seeds were F2 hybrids, set by the pollen from the mother tree, in otherwords self pollinated.

Later on, Patrick determined that the tree was self sterile.  There were a couple of Butias growing not to far away, so we had to assume the B X J was being pollinated by Butias. Since then, he has crossed the B X J with butia, syagrus, and Jubaea.  

I have 3 large Butiagrus, and they grow fruit every year, but they are all sterile. One is growing right under a tall Syagrus and there are Butias nearby, but it has never set any viable seeds. Patrick pollinated one of the trees (I can't remember with what species) but not a single seed was set.

This year, Patrick got an excellent seed set using Jubaea as the mother plant and pollen from the Butia X Jubaea, so this proves that self sterile pollen will cross with another species. To confuse things, he has used Butiagrus pollen on Butia and Syagrus with zero success. I don't know if this has answered your questions or not.

Dick

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DoomsDave

(STEVE IN SO CAL @ Apr. 07 2007,08:40)

QUOTE
I've coined a name for this palm....(JubxButia  X  Syagrus)

The Draft Mule Palm.

When you cross a donkey with a draft mare (clydesdale, belgian, percheron) you get what's called a draft mule. Hence the name.

Dick posted a pic of his small one in the travel section re his garden.

Great name!

hMM.

Would't that apply to any Jube hybrid?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swolf

Dick, thanks for the feedback.  It may take time for collective experience to answer all the questions.  This article from Nigel says he observed what appeared to be natural butiaXbutyagrus (F2s).  And now I see hybridizing being done with parajubaea.  So many possible combinations!

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Butyagrus/nabonnandii.html

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmGuyWC

Steve,

I have a Butia X Parajubaea, the cross which was done by Patrick Schafer. He tells me it's the largest one, or the only one in N. Calif. It's been in the ground for about two years, and it's doubled in size each year. I can now walk under the tallest fronds.  It went through the coldest winter here in 8 years last winter, down to 23F and many freezing nights with not a scratch. There are some growing in Galviston TX, and in the Orlando Fla. area and apparently they will take the heat as well as the cold. Nigel, in the UK has some growing there too.

The first two weeks in Oct. were quite chilly here with night time temps. going down into the mid 40's, and the new sphere was still growing a half an inch in a 24 hr. period. In case you can't tell, I'm WILD about this beautiful hybrid. I'm palm limited in my climate, and this is a great new addition.

Dick

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exotic Life

Very nice pics in this treath of the Hybrid's, i love those hybrids just like everyone!

Tim, very nice demostration, step by step!

Robbin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

Hi , Martin:

One anomaly In JXB is the great age of the JXB formerly at the old front entrance of FTG.  Its acquisition number RM followed by three digits suggested it was provided by the late Robert Montgomery [RM], the close friend of David Fairchild.   RM financed much of FTG so long ago that FTG couldn’t find records of this JXB provided by RM many years ago and labeled simply “Jubaea” for many years.  

They’re naming it Jubaea suggests it was a seedling from a Jubaea, and the stamen counts were consistent with JXB F1, not with either BXJ F1 or Jubaea itself.  This FTG JXB was not very tall considering its age and hybrid origin.

Steve and Martin:  Pollen from the FTG JXB applied to one of my Butia did produce a hybrid for me.  I’ll try to post this BX[JXB] when my equipment recovers.  This hybrid is not as vigorous as the usual JXB and [JXB]XB,  and hasn’t bloomed yet.  It surprises me in being as massive as it is, since the last cross that produced it eliminated the cytoplasmic inheritance that was in its father’s heritage.   Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimHopper

No luck yet with back crossing XButyagrus with Syagrus pollen. I tried several times with two of my seeding XButyagrus this summer with no viable seed sets. I have several more XButyagrus that I plan to try in the future. Included are some XButyagrus from Merrill's crosses that should be fruiting in a couple of years. I plan to keep trying until I stumble onto the right combination. My (JxB)xB may seed next year so I am hoping to cross it with Syagrus pollen. Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nigel

(TimHopper @ Nov. 03 2007,20:24)

QUOTE
No luck yet with back crossing XButyagrus with Syagrus pollen. I tried several times with two of my seeding XButyagrus this summer with no viable seed sets. I have several more XButyagrus that I plan to try in the future. Included are some XButyagrus from Merrill's crosses that should be fruiting in a couple of years. I plan to keep trying until I stumble onto the right combination. My (JxB)xB may seed next year so I am hoping to cross it with Syagrus pollen. Tim

Thats disappoiting Tim, did it set pseudoseeds or did all the seeds simply drop off ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimHopper

They just dropped off about three weeks after pollination. That seems odd to me because they drop off at a fairly large size. On a couple of XButyagrus inflourescences that I did not pollinate, they dropped off at a much smaller size right after the female flower petals turned brown. The pollinated ones held for about an extra two weeks longer and got so large that I thought they had set. The XButyagrus in my front yard produced 13 spathes during the last 8 months. There is an XButyagrus in a neighborhood neer me that produces copious amounts of seeds every summer. The fruit are perfect looking somewhere between Butia and syagrus (but to me are not edible). I tried germinating them for a few years until Merrill suggested opening some to check for embryos. Many were solid wood throughout. Others were perfect looking except that they had a small hollow chamber where the embryo should be. With so much seed variation on the same tree I have to wonder are they self pollinating for solid wood, stray Butia or Syagrus from nearby to produce nearly perfect but sterile seeds. Unsolved Mysteries. Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nigel

Very puzzling.... maybe Merrill has some experience of the reasons why seeds are dropped at different stages, its hard to understand why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cfkingfish

I don't know if I posted this one in this thread, but here is an xJubutiaygrus here in Southwest Florida. It should be noted that the backcross of Syagrus was not S. romanzoffiana, but most likely S. coronata or S. oleracea, as there are no Queens nearby.

IMG_0244-1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimHopper

Christian, That's an interesting cross. You can see the Syagrus influence in the upright stature with very little recurve. I'll bet the shaded location has some influence on its growth habit. I wonder how it would look out in a sunny position? Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

QUOTING swolf:

Posted on: Oct. 27 2007,15:46        

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While we wait for an update from Tim on his butyagrus backcross, maybe someone can clear up my novice confusion about 'mules' and sterility.  From what I've gathered so far, a palm may be sterile in one context (e.g. self-sterile) but fertile in another.  Even in a capacity where it's considered sterile, low probability exceptions (such as the mule backcrossed with Queen) may still be possible.

I wonder if these mule hybrids can more readily 'father' palms (pollen donors)?  I don't know if there's difference between Jubutyagrus and butyagrus toward the answer.  Has Merrill ever used the pollen from one of his mature Jubutyagrus to pollinate another palm?

Steve  

RESPONSE:

Hi, Steve:

A mule backcrossed with Queen is shown in Post #58 in this thread.  It is especially interesting because it is plumose, which is extremely rare in these hybrids.   This is due to the monumental efforts of the late Charles Raulerson.

My impression from a distance is that Gary gets a disproportionate share of self-pollinated offspring from XButyagrus.  One would expect more back-crossing or crossing with the more fertile pollen from neighboring non-sterile palms.

I haven't tried to pollinate anything with XJubutyagrus [XJ] pollen, because XJ seems much more thoroughly sterile than Butyagrus itself.  Each inflorescence has close to 1000 seed, all of which have solid endocarp.  XButyagrus seed often have at least a bit of endosperm.  

A suggestion for anyone wanting to introduce Parajubaea in these hybrids: Plan so that the last cross will be w/ Queen pollen!

Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

Hi, Nigel:

The factors controlling when sterile fruit abscise or not are beyond me, but in general those with an empty cavity would be more promising for further attempts than those with no cavity at all.

Hi, Christian:

Can you give us more info on the geneology of your Jubutyagrus?  

Many Thanks, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swolf

(merrill @ Nov. 02 2007,12:33)

QUOTE
They’re naming it Jubaea suggests it was a seedling from a Jubaea, and the stamen counts were consistent with JXB F1, not with either BXJ F1 or Jubaea itself.  This FTG JXB was not very tall considering its age and hybrid origin.

Steve and Martin:  Pollen from the FTG JXB applied to one of my Butia did produce a hybrid for me.  I’ll try to post this BX[JXB] when my equipment recovers.  This hybrid is not as vigorous as the usual JXB and [JXB]XB,  and hasn’t bloomed yet.  It surprises me in being as massive as it is, since the last cross that produced it eliminated the cytoplasmic inheritance that was in its father’s heritage.   Best Wishes, merrill

Merrill,

How fast/are your Jubutyagrus still growing?  I wonder what the final height of this hybrid is?  If it ultimately grows tall enough, I think it's probably the best (albeit rare) large-scale cold-hardy palm known.  Especially if one values self-cleaning and lack of armor along with beauty.

Similarly, how tall would you say the FTG JXB was?  It appears that the butia heritage may cap the stature quite a bit -- assuming that hybrid was 'full grown'.

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
freakypalmguy

This is such a great thread. I just got done reading it all again.

Question: What does F1, F2, mean?

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
merrill

QUOTING STEVE WOLF:

MERRILL:How fast/are your Jubutyagrus still growing?  I wonder what the final height of this hybrid is?  If it ultimately grows tall enough, I think it's probably the best (albeit rare) large-scale cold-hardy palm known.  Especially if one values self-cleaning and lack of armor along with beauty.

Similarly, how tall would you say the FTG JXB was?  It appears that the butia heritage may cap the stature quite a bit -- assuming that hybrid was 'full grown'.

END QUOTE.

Hi, Steve:

Sorry to answer so slowly; computer problem.  I hadn't seen the FTG JXB for a long time - perhaps 22 feet? You're probably correct; we need to use the much taller Butia yatay to produce taller JXB.  Altho Gaston has found only a comparatively small number of Queen X yatay, and my yatay from Entre Rios refuses to cross w/ anything, it obviously is possible.

My XJubutyagrus seem to be slowing down.  They will probably slow with age as has XButyagrus, and require excellent nutrition here in Florida, as does XButyagrus, in order not to look ratty.

I'm not sure my second XJubutyagrus cleans its trunk as well as the one usually photographed.  Will post a photo soon.

JXBXPj and JXPjXQ would be very interesting; Pj doesn't seem to grow well in Florida.

Best Wishes, merrill

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
swolf

Thanks Merrill.  How tall are your XJubutyagrus now?

With your XJubutyagrus still growing, their final height is still unknown.  While variable (and impacted by the queen "father"), one would think the average XJubutyagrus would be somewhat larger/taller than the average XButyagrus, given the larger/taller "mother".      

The only thing about Parajubaea that I don't like is the possible loss of the clean trunk seen on your XJubutyagrus.  It is interesting that JXB and Dick's BXP grow so fast -- hybrid vigor can apparently substitute for queen speed!

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmGuyWC

I have a Syagrus (mother) X (Butia X Jubaea), and it hasn't grown as fast and with the viggor as the backcross of (Butia X Jubaea) X (Syagrus).  One would think with Syagrus being the mother plant that it would grow faster with the speed of a Syagrus. It also has a thinner texture than the other cross.

It could be that it's just this particular plant, and maybe it will speed up next summer. We shall see.

Dick

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×