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Southern California to lose its Palms!

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Sandy Loam

True, there are lots of washingtonia robusta in Florida, but they never seem to grow nearly as tall as in Southern California.

 

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RobustaEnvirons
5 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

 

Unfortunately, whatever city I move to down there I have to balance many different factors. More than just Climate. I would like to move further south when locating to Florida, but Orlando is a good middle ground. 

Orlando is subtropical with temps usually warm even in winter, summer temps no warmer than 100F, high above sea level, decently inland (which is good to defend against hurricanes), affordability, decent economy, jobs, decently affordable rent, and Orlando is in driving distance (located right in the middle of Florida) of most Florida cities. I couldn't afford to live in Miami (nor would I want to). Miami is more expensive, has more people, tougher local economy, longer drive to reach other Florida cities, and other states. Its a longer drive to get out of the state, when i want to head north to visit family for the holidays. I have to balance all these factors, primarily the low apartment and job factors.  

I figure Orlando is a good place to be, at least for a while. In the worst case, I could always move further south later on. The temperature graphs for Orlando Florida, should warm weather all year-round, even during Winter. I don't call 50s cold actually. Not warm, but not really the end of the world. I can tolerate that for a couple months, lol. 

It can't be that cold in Orlando, they grow many many different types of palms, including W. Robusta, and CIDP among others. They grow oranges there, so I don't know how cold it really gets. Probably not that cold. 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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RobustaEnvirons
5 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

True, there are lots of washingtonia robusta in Florida, but they never seem to grow nearly as tall as in Southern California.

 

I agree. That's a bummer for me. I still love W.Robusta though, so I don't know if I'll be changing my username come when I move. When I move to Florida I'll still be growing plenty of W.Robusta. lol. 

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Sandy Loam

You should have daytime temperatures in the 70s every day in Orlando all winter. It's just the overnight temperatures which can be cold.

Yes, there are lots or Orange groves outside Orlando. This is not the case of Miami. Near South Florida, it's sugarcane couuntry instead.

Back to the washingtonias in California --- At least they have the advantage of fusarium wilt being the only problem there. Here, there seem to be other things plaguing washingtonia robusta, and we are all noticing an increasing number of collapsed crowns.  Here in Florida, we have Texas Phoenix Palm Decline and a type of weevil that may also be killing our washingtonias. Given the massive distribution of washingtonias in Cali, the fusarium wilt may not be able to keep up with the volume and the washingtonias could therefore win out.

 

 

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Zeeth

W. robusta can get pretty tall in Florida as long as lightning doesn't kill them. They look pretty nice when planted in rows, like on this street in Bradenton:

https://goo.gl/1Rqjun

 

Nothing to do with climate, but don't get your hopes up about growing a healthy orange tree in Orlando. Backyard citrus is much more difficult in Florida than it ever has been before because of citrus greening. Commercial groves are only successful because of all the insecticides and foliar feeding they do. UF is working on a greening resistant orange, but who knows when it'll be made publicly available.

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Eric in Orlando

Orlando is a great climate to grow plants in. If you live in the metro/heat-island you can grow many tender zone 10 plants/palms. But you can also grow many temperate plants. Its a great tropical/temperate mixing zone.

But living wise, Orlando is becoming very undesirable to me. I'm looking to move out in the near future. I have already moved out to Altamonte Springs (north of Orlando). its becoming insanely crowded, rude, horrible unchecked growth and traffic, crime ridden, natural areas bulldozed, nothing historic saved and unpleasant. I've lived here for 36 years and its really gone downhill since the late 1990s. You might consider renting first.

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Sandy Loam
1 hour ago, Zeeth said:

W. robusta can get pretty tall in Florida as long as lightning doesn't kill them. They look pretty nice when planted in rows, like on this street in Bradenton:

https://goo.gl/1Rqjun

Here are some tall washingtonia robusta in St. Petersburg, Florida, too: 

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.6972869,-82.7357739,3a,75y,11.58h,97.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syjCVQConPH8DX7TmwQpnhA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Perhaps it's just the age of the trees which makes them so tall, regardless of where they are located.  In general, though, I have noticed that washingtonias way up in northern Florida don't seem to grow as tall, perhaps because of the cold nights in winter or perhaps because they simply are not as mature.  Here are some tall ones in freezing Tallahassee, way up in the extreme north of Florida (notice, BTW, how they keep their leaf bases forever up there):       

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4404848,-84.3150275,3a,75y,331.48h,110.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shiRlQhGo_EH6JQ3DIhI4gQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

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RobustaEnvirons

 

7 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Orlando is a great climate to grow plants in. If you live in the metro/heat-island you can grow many tender zone 10 plants/palms. But you can also grow many temperate plants. Its a great tropical/temperate mixing zone.

But living wise, Orlando is becoming very undesirable to me. I'm looking to move out in the near future. I have already moved out to Altamonte Springs (north of Orlando). its becoming insanely crowded, rude, horrible unchecked growth and traffic, crime ridden, natural areas bulldozed, nothing historic saved and unpleasant. I've lived here for 36 years and its really gone downhill since the late 1990s. You might consider renting first.

I actually do plan on renting. That way in case I decide in the future I want to live somewhere else instead of Orlando, I'll be able to. I don't have my heart set on Orlando or anything, I just want a place centrally located within Florida, not too too expensive, and not an old people retirement community. 

After seeing the cost of living of Miami/Fort Lauderdale, I couldn't afford to live there. I don't need all that Miami glamour and expense. On the other hand, I don't want to live in Pensacola or Jacksonville either (way the heck up in Northern Florida). 

I think I will rent in Orlando, and keep my options open. It's a little ways out from now anyway (end of 2017/early 2018). 

I'm sorry you don't like Orlando. It's never fun to live in an environment you don't any longer like. Toledo Ohio isn't the best either. It's actually doing worse off economically than Orlando I believe. Not much going on around here. Even worse since we've got to battle the cold Winter weather all Winter long, each and every winter. 

I've heard of Altamonte Springs, thats an area I've been considering too. Even Toledo Ohio has many of the same negative traits you've mentioned. I think all cities exhibit these bad traits in some amounts. 

By the way, how is Winter Park? It scores about middle range on crime, and has affordable places to rent. Also, it's within close proximity to many things it appears.  

Or, even the non-Miami section of Florida's east coast such as Vero beach and etc? I may rent a little while in Orlando and then if I to, I could always move closer to the east coast portion of Florida. I look at it all as give and take. No place is perfect. 

Sorry, I digress. Little off the palm topic. 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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RobustaEnvirons
5 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

...and the RGV region of Texas, which has Washingtonia Robusta literally wherever you look:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.9030348,-97.4975438,3a,37.5y,154.56h,97.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sai3qn_8CFDSwF4jVVbEuMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

That does indeed look like a lot of Robusta! Wow. It's nice. 

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PalmatierMeg

"Orlando is subtropical with temps usually warm even in winter, summer temps no warmer than 100F, high above sea level, decently inland (which is good to defend against hurricanes)"

I assume you have visited Orlando, not just read travel books or surfed the internet. If not, I strongly suggest you take a week off to visit and scope out the area, which is what we did for the Ft. Myers/Cape Coral area. I always tell people to visit when the climate is at its most brutal: July/August. I question your remarks on Orlando's affordability - it is, after all, the home of the Rat's House, Universal Studio and Medieval Times. Unless you plan to live in the outer suburbs miles from your job, you will find traffic is abominable year round - tourists with their kiddies in summer and snow birds in the winter. Not to mention the put upon working stiffs who slog to work to support all that fantasy. I can't imagine the cost of living in Toledo comes close to Orlando's. As for being safer from hurricanes, not a chance. In 2004 Orlando was the crossroads for 4 major hurricanes. The FL peninsula is a 100 miles or less wide. But unless you have an unreasoning phobia about hurricanes, don't give them much credence. Every part of the country has its natural perils. My husband refused to consider living in Cali (where all my kinfolk originated and still live) because of earthquakes. Many people in Cali are terrified of hurricanes. But at least here we can prepare for the next cat 4 Charley, which originally was headed to Tampa before it made a sudden hard right toward us. We had 30 minutes notice and watched the local weather forecaster freak out and tell viewers to take cover ASAP. My son in S. Ft. Myers called and said, "Mom, you have a bulls eye on your roof." Thanks, Son, we've already pulled the shutters. Just another day in Paradise.

Anyway, when/if you visit Orlando, try to spend a day at Leu Botanical Garden. We were there in June and it's a fantastic place. It will give you an idea about what can be done to achieve a tropical-like garden in a place where winters dip into the 20s. So worth the visit.

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RobustaEnvirons
2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

"Orlando is subtropical with temps usually warm even in winter, summer temps no warmer than 100F, high above sea level, decently inland (which is good to defend against hurricanes)"

I assume you have visited Orlando, not just read travel books or surfed the internet. If not, I strongly suggest you take a week off to visit and scope out the area, which is what we did for the Ft. Myers/Cape Coral area. I always tell people to visit when the climate is at its most brutal: July/August. I question your remarks on Orlando's affordability - it is, after all, the home of the Rat's House, Universal Studio and Medieval Times. Unless you plan to live in the outer suburbs miles from your job, you will find traffic is abominable year round - tourists with their kiddies in summer and snow birds in the winter. Not to mention the put upon working stiffs who slog to work to support all that fantasy. I can't imagine the cost of living in Toledo comes close to Orlando's. As for being safer from hurricanes, not a chance. In 2004 Orlando was the crossroads for 4 major hurricanes. The FL peninsula is a 100 miles or less wide. But unless you have an unreasoning phobia about hurricanes, don't give them much credence. Every part of the country has its natural perils. My husband refused to consider living in Cali (where all my kinfolk originated and still live) because of earthquakes. Many people in Cali are terrified of hurricanes. But at least here we can prepare for the next cat 4 Charley, which originally was headed to Tampa before it made a sudden hard right toward us. We had 30 minutes notice and watched the local weather forecaster freak out and tell viewers to take cover ASAP. My son in S. Ft. Myers called and said, "Mom, you have a bulls eye on your roof." Thanks, Son, we've already pulled the shutters. Just another day in Paradise.

Anyway, when/if you visit Orlando, try to spend a day at Leu Botanical Garden. We were there in June and it's a fantastic place. It will give you an idea about what can be done to achieve a tropical-like garden in a place where winters dip into the 20s. So worth the visit.

Yes, I do plan on driving down there and visiting a couple times to get a feel for whether I like it or not.

I've read that Orlando is a subtropical climate on the USDA website (interactive zone map) and also when reading about Orlando. That's why I said it's a Subtropical environment. One of the websites I've read mentioned that bit about it being better defended from Hurricanes. I did not know too much about the damage from Hurricane Charlie in 2004. I've only read a little on it. Thank you. I guess the 100 miles doesn't matter as much as I thought. 

I have been to Orlando before in the past, although I will admit not in the mindset to live there. I'll definitely be sure to visit first. In April I moved to California and ended up not liking it as much as I expected. So I moved all my stuff (and transported my car) back to Toledo Ohio. It cost a lot of money, so believe me I learned a valuable lesson. I'll always visit first and test out wherever I might want to move to from now on. 

In terms of Cost of Living, all I really meant was that it's not as bad as some might suggest. When I (very briefly) moved to California I quickly realized that the Cost of Living there is very high. Apartments where I was in California were no less than $1000/month for a studio apartment. I'm primarily basing my Cost of Living on Rent, Gas prices, and other things like that. I've found Orlando to be much lower rent than anywhere in California. Just in my initial search I found quite a few apartments below $600/month (studio) and many include some utilities. Some I've seen posted in Orlando are garden style, where they're on ground level (so not an apartment complex). Your right though, the Cost of Living isn't as bad here in Toledo as Orlando. Orlando is lower than many other warm climate places, that's all I meant by that. 

The Apartments I saw posted were in decent neighborhoods from what I saw. To be honest, looking on a crime map of Orlando, there's not really a particular neighborhood that's crime free. Orlando looks like it's high on crime. But, Winter Park did rank decent on the map I looked at. That area seems decent. I'm kinda looking into Winter Park, Altamonte Springs and other surrounding areas if need be. I don't mind putting up with a lot if I have to. I will commute even leaving hours ahead of time if I have to. But, like you said, that's why I'm going to visit first. 

I have read and heard that Orlando traffic is brutal, and for the reasons you've stated. I guess that just comes with the territory. Toledo has little traffic if any. Only at rush hour. 

I'm not particularly worried about Hurricanes, I'm actually more concerned with Earthquakes. Like you said, at least you can have warning if even a small one. I prefer Hurricanes over earthquakes too. 

But, I definitely agree with you; I'll go visit first and in the Summer months. Thanks for letting me know about the Leu Botanical Gardens. I'll be sure to visit when I'm there. It sounds interesting.  

My move is a while off yet anyhow, so there's plenty of time for planning. 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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PalmatierMeg

When I think about it, Orlando is approx. midway across the state so you are 50 miles from each coast. I believe it is zone 9a/9b most winters. But definitely come in high summer. Some people claim to love summers but never counted on 6-7 months of temps over 90 and almost year round humidity. Sometimes a person gets all addled and does something crazy. In July 1993 after we moved down here, a guy strapped on sticks of dynamite and drove toward his ex-wife's house with the intention of blowing himself through her front window. Fortunately, police were tipped off and intercepted him. Only in Cape Coral.

If you are looking for a busy metro area with people on the move, lots of glitz and flash, Orlando may be your dream home. I'm a native of Washington, DC and spent 45 years of my life there. But when someone offered to buy our business, we got out of there. Traffic got worse and worse and does so to this day. We wanted to get as far from all that bustle and jammed roads as we could. That ruled out every large metro area in FL. After I spent hours researching in the library we decided on a July visit to Ft. Myers/Cape Coral. We also considered Pensacola but they have a 2-3 month freeze season. My husband suffers from the low light, winter cold SAD disorder and turns impossibly surly. Ft. Myers area drops below 40F only a few times a winter, occasionally not at all. The Cape passed inspection so we moved here. You need to decide what you truly want, do due diligence, then schedule trips.

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Matthew92
37 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

When I think about it, Orlando is approx. midway across the state so you are 50 miles from each coast. I believe it is zone 9a/9b most winters. But definitely come in high summer. Some people claim to love summers but never counted on 6-7 months of temps over 90 and almost year round humidity. Sometimes a person gets all addled and does something crazy. In July 1993 after we moved down here, a guy strapped on sticks of dynamite and drove toward his ex-wife's house with the intention of blowing himself through her front window. Fortunately, police were tipped off and intercepted him. Only in Cape Coral.

If you are looking for a busy metro area with people on the move, lots of glitz and flash, Orlando may be your dream home. I'm a native of Washington, DC and spent 45 years of my life there. But when someone offered to buy our business, we got out of there. Traffic got worse and worse and does so to this day. We wanted to get as far from all that bustle and jammed roads as we could. That ruled out every large metro area in FL. After I spent hours researching in the library we decided on a July visit to Ft. Myers/Cape Coral. We also considered Pensacola but they have a 2-3 month freeze season. My husband suffers from the low light, winter cold SAD disorder and turns impossibly surly. Ft. Myers area drops below 40F only a few times a winter, occasionally not at all. The Cape passed inspection so we moved here. You need to decide what you truly want, do due diligence, then schedule trips.

Yes, I suffer from SAD mildly and still really feel it in North FL especially Jan-Feb.

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cm05

I didn't know winter SAD was possible in Florida.

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

When I think about it, Orlando is approx. midway across the state so you are 50 miles from each coast. I believe it is zone 9a/9b most winters. But definitely come in high summer. Some people claim to love summers but never counted on 6-7 months of temps over 90 and almost year round humidity. Sometimes a person gets all addled and does something crazy. In July 1993 after we moved down here, a guy strapped on sticks of dynamite and drove toward his ex-wife's house with the intention of blowing himself through her front window. Fortunately, police were tipped off and intercepted him. Only in Cape Coral.

If you are looking for a busy metro area with people on the move, lots of glitz and flash, Orlando may be your dream home. I'm a native of Washington, DC and spent 45 years of my life there. But when someone offered to buy our business, we got out of there. Traffic got worse and worse and does so to this day. We wanted to get as far from all that bustle and jammed roads as we could. That ruled out every large metro area in FL. After I spent hours researching in the library we decided on a July visit to Ft. Myers/Cape Coral. We also considered Pensacola but they have a 2-3 month freeze season. My husband suffers from the low light, winter cold SAD disorder and turns impossibly surly. Ft. Myers area drops below 40F only a few times a winter, occasionally not at all. The Cape passed inspection so we moved here. You need to decide what you truly want, do due diligence, then schedule trips.

Thank you for your thoughts and advice. I appreciate it. That's crazy that people do things like that!  

I myself actually somewhat enjoy the Hustle and Bustle of a city. I don't exactly want to live in a big city (like Washington DC) but I do appreciate a town the size of Orlando/Tampa. I'm only 26 and I do enjoy the energy of people on the move somewhat. I might really like it there. I'm still working, and I can appreciate a place like Orlando that has the capacity to have many jobs. That's a positive of Orlando is its centralized in the state, and has many different industries for which I can draw from.      

I too get the SAD disorder. That is one of my many reasons for wanting to relocate down to Florida. Certainly not the only reason, but one of many. Here in Toledo Ohio in a normal year we have endless cloud-cover from Mid October-late March (200 days of clouds per year), with a crazy cold winter climate during those months. Its miserable. I love the spring/summer (which is also very humid here on the Great Lakes), but once Fall/Winter rolls around I hate being here. I count down the days until Spring every year.

I understand what you mean perfectly though. I will definitely need to figure out all that out. 

 

  

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Matthew92
1 hour ago, cm05 said:

I didn't know winter SAD was possible in Florida.

Yes, up here it can be downright chilly for days on end, and sometimes overcast a lot. Especially after a brutal freeze in the high teens everything is zapped, all the nice lush flowering plants are cut off and you have to wait till late March before it looks nice outside again. 

My dream is to create a cold hardy bulletproof garden for zone 8 that looks lush and tropical even through those terrible freezes.

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DoomsDave

Richard:

Where in California did you go to look for apartments? Your rates sound a bit low. (Alas.)

Ohio is a different planet from Florida and was even back in 1985. I'm originally from Euclid, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, which, sadly, has fallen on hard times. The cost of living in Cleveland is low, unless you're really poor, which a lot of people there now are. The big cost is winter heat.

My dad bought his house in 1970 for 25K, now it's worth about 45K. Nice, 3BR 1 BA with almost-full basement. Brother lives there now.

They're tearing down houses in the area because no one wants to pay to bring them up to FHA/VA specs. Old 'hood looks like someone missing teeth. I suspect Toledo is both better and worse. Youngstown is much much worse. On the other hand, Cleveland is a great place if you can partake of the corporate feast. There's a lot happening there but not everyone gets a seat at the table.

Back in 1985 I wanted to go to a palmy place. I was in my mid-20s and didn't know much, except that I hated those long [expletive] winters. I'd sprained my ankle on the ice, had to deliver newspapers in -30 F weather. There was a lot to miss, though; I'd have to leave behind a life time of friends and family. Cleveland can be a fun place, too.

I considered Florida then. I talked to a lot of people who'd gone there - and came back to Ohio. The chief complaint then was that there were no well-paying jobs for anyone, even if you had an education, even in places like Jax that were supposed to be "industrial centers." I'm sure that's changed a lot. Ohio has as well. Florida for the better, Ohio, alas, for the worse.

I was closely attuned to economy concerns then. I'd gone to Corpus Christi Texas in 1979 and come back soon after. Lots of palms! But, limited prospects, and my preparation was bad. Texas has a diversified economy but it also has blue northers. When the time came, I'd choose wisely and make it stick if I could.

I chose California because it had an economy based on a lot of things; tourism, industry of all kinds, logistics, the arts of all kinds, law, medicine, there's not much that's not out here. I wasn't sure where my vocational path lay then, but California offered many. I became an attorney in a place that's full of potential clients, which grows daily. That can change, of course, and might yet.

Still, I can appreciate why a young man or woman coming of age here in California might want to leave. Many in La Habra (in Orange County) do just that. It's expensive to even get by here (housing is far and away the worst expense), and if you don't qualify for a profession or well-paid job, the prospects are not good; you'll be a second-class citizen for lack of money. I don't suggest going out here as avidly as I once did. There's too many what-ifs. Traffic is terrible. I hear DC's worse, but that's a bit like saying colon cancer is worse than liver cancer.

Still, there's always room for another good soul who likes palms! We're in the home stretch to Christmas, and I spent the afternoon in the warm sun, trimming palm leaves, taking a PT break once in a while, or snapping a picture.

You're wise to be careful. Meg's advice is sound.

If you have specific questions, feel free to shoot me a confidential PM.

best

dave

 

 

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RobustaEnvirons
7 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Richard:

Where in California did you go to look for apartments? Your rates sound a bit low. (Alas.)

Ohio is a different planet from Florida and was even back in 1985. I'm originally from Euclid, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, which, sadly, has fallen on hard times. The cost of living in Cleveland is low, unless you're really poor, which a lot of people there now are. The big cost is winter heat.

My dad bought his house in 1970 for 25K, now it's worth about 45K. Nice, 3BR 1 BA with almost-full basement. Brother lives there now.

They're tearing down houses in the area because no one wants to pay to bring them up to FHA/VA specs. Old 'hood looks like someone missing teeth. I suspect Toledo is both better and worse. Youngstown is much much worse. On the other hand, Cleveland is a great place if you can partake of the corporate feast. There's a lot happening there but not everyone gets a seat at the table.

Back in 1985 I wanted to go to a palmy place. I was in my mid-20s and didn't know much, except that I hated those long [expletive] winters. I'd sprained my ankle on the ice, had to deliver newspapers in -30 F weather. There was a lot to miss, though; I'd have to leave behind a life time of friends and family. Cleveland can be a fun place, too.

I considered Florida then. I talked to a lot of people who'd gone there - and came back to Ohio. The chief complaint then was that there were no well-paying jobs for anyone, even if you had an education, even in places like Jax that were supposed to be "industrial centers." I'm sure that's changed a lot. Ohio has as well. Florida for the better, Ohio, alas, for the worse.

I was closely attuned to economy concerns then. I'd gone to Corpus Christi Texas in 1979 and come back soon after. Lots of palms! But, limited prospects, and my preparation was bad. Texas has a diversified economy but it also has blue northers. When the time came, I'd choose wisely and make it stick if I could.

I chose California because it had an economy based on a lot of things; tourism, industry of all kinds, logistics, the arts of all kinds, law, medicine, there's not much that's not out here. I wasn't sure where my vocational path lay then, but California offered many. I became an attorney in a place that's full of potential clients, which grows daily. That can change, of course, and might yet.

Still, I can appreciate why a young man or woman coming of age here in California might want to leave. Many in La Habra (in Orange County) do just that. It's expensive to even get by here (housing is far and away the worst expense), and if you don't qualify for a profession or well-paid job, the prospects are not good; you'll be a second-class citizen for lack of money. I don't suggest going out here as avidly as I once did. There's too many what-ifs. Traffic is terrible. I hear DC's worse, but that's a bit like saying colon cancer is worse than liver cancer.

Still, there's always room for another good soul who likes palms! We're in the home stretch to Christmas, and I spent the afternoon in the warm sun, trimming palm leaves, taking a PT break once in a while, or snapping a picture.

You're wise to be careful. Meg's advice is sound.

If you have specific questions, feel free to shoot me a confidential PM.

best

dave

 

 

Thanks DoomsDave for your perspective. Wow, that's a lot of travel and a lot of story.

When I moved to California back in April, I had moved to the Central Valley in Hanford California. I moved in with a friend who has a good professional career job. He had no problem affording the 1000/month rent (he actually stayed at a B&B for a while for $700/month). But, I on the other hand quickly found out California is an expensive place to live if you're not a professional with a degree like my friends, just like you said. Just like you said, I was a second class citizen and realized that only after being there a little bit. It's an arena only the well off can play in. And I was in the Central Valley, I can't imagine the costs of LA or SF!

In Hanford it was the cheapest prices in California at that! That's why they probably seem low to you. The central valley is lower income and lower jobs as well. There's not many jobs to speak of anyhow. I can't see paying more than $600 for an apartment.

I looked online and quickly found many apartments in Orlando that are under that price range. It's not even a contest. And in LA and San Francisco prices are even higher! So I can't compete with that, and it isn't worth living with all that. I saw prices were high for other things as well (such as gasoline). 

I realized going out to live in California that I really missed my family as well (who all live here in Toledo). That's part of why Florida seems to be better for me. It's on the East coast, eastern time zone, way lower cost of living, I can drive back to Toledo to visit every once in a while (right up I75 in 18 hours), and it's still close to a California climate. I'd like to come back and visit my family easily every Christmas time. I don't have experience in a professional career. That's why Orlando appeals to me. I don't need a big professional job necessarily to move there (unlike California). 

I want to move and have it stick this time myself. I don't want to move and then possibly move again. It was a lot moving out to California and trying it out. Only to return. That's why this time I'm taking the time, and planning it out. I appreciate any information I can get from anyone.  Thank you for the kind advice, I''ll keep that in mind!

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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amazondk
On 12/2/2015, 1:14:23, Sandy Loam said:

Skip Orlando! Too many cold nights in winter -- although we have only had 70s-80s Fahrenheit so far this winter. Keep on driving south to the tropical zone: Fort Lauderdale down to the tip of Key West. You'll never be cold again.

I have been cold in Fort Lauderdale.  I did see ice on my plants in the 80s when I lived there.  Since I did not have central AC at the time I bought kerosene heater to keep warm in the house.  Although this is not a common occurrence it does happen.  If you never want to be cold move to the low land equatorial tropics.  

 

dk

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DoomsDave

Richard, the central valley is cheaper than the coastal areas where I live. As you noted, by a long shot. San Francisco has always been high, but it's gentrifying on a runaway scale now, like Manhattan west.

Gas is cheapest in LA (refineries are here) and highest in San Diego and San Francisco.

The key difference between Ohio and Florida is going from the Industrial North to the non-industrial South. Each developed in different ways and each has a different approach to industry, occupations, etc. Much of the North is collapsing, and reemerging as a service economy, which is bad for many. My old hometown is losing residents, in part I think because why put up with that foul weather and unemployment, too, when you can live in a place like North Carolina.

Good luck, and, if you have questions, always feel free to PM me. I'm hapy to help someone avoid mistakes I made.

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Zeeth
29 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Much of the North is collapsing, and reemerging as a service economy, which is bad for many.

It's definitely a service economy in Florida right now. Despite all the horror stories I've heard about the low job satisfaction of physicians, I'm glad I'm getting into the field. I don't know anyone that I went to high school or undergraduate with making more than $10 an hour except the ones who went into a trade or the military. 

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RobustaEnvirons
19 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Good luck, and, if you have questions, always feel free to PM me. I'm hapy to help someone avoid mistakes I made.

Thank you, I appreciate it. You make it sound a little ominous. Lol. But, I do understand what you're coming from. I'm trying to really plan it through this time around.

I will definitely PM you if I have questions. Thank you for all the advice and help. 

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DoomsDave
21 hours ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

Thank you, I appreciate it. You make it sound a little ominous. Lol. But, I do understand what you're coming from. I'm trying to really plan it through this time around.

I will definitely PM you if I have questions. Thank you for all the advice and help. 

Sorry to cast things in a gloom and doom perspective. The older you get the harder it is to move, unless you have a lot of money and can afford a lot of slaves to make it easier. I moved about 10 times when I first got to California; last time was in 2002. Which I'm perfectly happy with for now.

One great thing about the U.S. is our absolute constitutional right to travel among the states. If you make a moving mistake, you're perfectly free to rectify it by going someplace else. No state can set up a legal bar to new residents.

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PalmatierMeg

I'm with Zeeth all the way. Much of FL is based on tourism and healthcare. You need advanced education for both fields. Construction is boom and bust - mostly bust for the past 8 years. Years went by when I saw not one house under construction. And working construction outdoors in heat and swelter can soon squelch your love for FL "warmth". Well paying jobs are hard to come by if you don't have a specialty. My older son, an electrician, lost his job when his company went belly-up in 2007. He and his wife (Master's in Speech Therapy - guaranteed big bucks) up and moved to Colorado Springs where her family lives. He worked as an electrician for a while, company went under. So he went back to his original profession as a carpet, furniture, disaster cleaner (which he learned in our family business). Long hours working in a cold climate played havoc with his joints. So, he decided to go back to school and become a radiology tech while he worked part time as a transporter in his wife's hospital. Two years of community college and 2 years of radiology school (20 students accepted, 18 finished) he graduated in July and now works at the hospital starting at 2-1/2 times the salary of a transporter. This fall they sold their house in preparation for a move to FL and work in the health field. Moral: come here prepared.

You could also do as we and many other people have done: go into business for yourself. My husband & I started our own cleaning company, later added a janitorial company. We spent 14 years as ServiceMaster franchisees (carpet, furniture and disaster restoration) and were in the top 50 in North America - ultimately grossing (not netting) $500,000 per year. That was prior to 1992 dollars. My husband has a degree in business and finance. So, did we make those kind of $$$ here? Absolutely not (cost of living in Cape Coral can't compete with the Washington Metro area), but we made a very good living, bought a nice but not ostentatious house on a freshwater canal and live well. In 2004 we sold the carpet cleaning business but kept the janitorial business until we sold it to our niece in 2007. She has no degree but is bright and driven. Now she is making a good living. Her husband, a maintenance supervisor for the soon-to-fail Sears for 25 years, has started a carpet, furniture and floor cleaning business he can grow after Sears cuts him loose.

Is cleaning for others a dream career? Not for most people but it fills a need because everyone and everything gets dirty, even the rich and famous. Is it a career that requires skills and knowledge and learning? You better believe it. Is it easy being the boss? No, but someone has to be.

So, if you want to prosper in sunny land (or anywhere else) you need to evaluate yourself and determine what you have to offer an employer. Do have specific and needed skills? If not, are you willing to take classes or training that prepare you for a career in the few areas of good job prospects? Would you consider starting a business doing _______________ (fill in the blank)? Or are you happy just kicking around from job to job? A lot of people who move here unprepared end up living under a bridge or in a homeless camp in the woods. My son graduated from radiology school at age 40 after spending 15 years kicking around. He and his wife have one-way tickets to the good life in FL.

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm with Zeeth all the way. Much of FL is based on tourism and healthcare. You need advanced education for both fields. Construction is boom and bust - mostly bust for the past 8 years. Years went by when I saw not one house under construction. And working construction outdoors in heat and swelter can soon squelch your love for FL "warmth". Well paying jobs are hard to come by if you don't have a specialty. My older son, an electrician, lost his job when his company went belly-up in 2007. He and his wife (Master's in Speech Therapy - guaranteed big bucks) up and moved to Colorado Springs where her family lives. He worked as an electrician for a while, company went under. So he went back to his original profession as a carpet, furniture, disaster cleaner (which he learned in our family business). Long hours working in a cold climate played havoc with his joints. So, he decided to go back to school and become a radiology tech while he worked part time as a transporter in his wife's hospital. Two years of community college and 2 years of radiology school (20 students accepted, 18 finished) he graduated in July and now works at the hospital starting at 2-1/2 times the salary of a transporter. This fall they sold their house in preparation for a move to FL and work in the health field. Moral: come here prepared.

You could also do as we and many other people have done: go into business for yourself. My husband & I started our own cleaning company, later added a janitorial company. We spent 14 years as ServiceMaster franchisees (carpet, furniture and disaster restoration) and were in the top 50 in North America - ultimately grossing (not netting) $500,000 per year. That was prior to 1992 dollars. My husband has a degree in business and finance. So, did we make those kind of $$$ here? Absolutely not (cost of living in Cape Coral can't compete with the Washington Metro area), but we made a very good living, bought a nice but not ostentatious house on a freshwater canal and live well. In 2004 we sold the carpet cleaning business but kept the janitorial business until we sold it to our niece in 2007. She has no degree but is bright and driven. Now she is making a good living. Her husband, a maintenance supervisor for the soon-to-fail Sears for 25 years, has started a carpet, furniture and floor cleaning business he can grow after Sears cuts him loose.

Is cleaning for others a dream career? Not for most people but it fills a need because everyone and everything gets dirty, even the rich and famous. Is it a career that requires skills and knowledge and learning? You better believe it. Is it easy being the boss? No, but someone has to be.

So, if you want to prosper in sunny land (or anywhere else) you need to evaluate yourself and determine what you have to offer an employer. Do have specific and needed skills? If not, are you willing to take classes or training that prepare you for a career in the few areas of good job prospects? Would you consider starting a business doing _______________ (fill in the blank)? Or are you happy just kicking around from job to job? A lot of people who move here unprepared end up living under a bridge or in a homeless camp in the woods. My son graduated from radiology school at age 40 after spending 15 years kicking around. He and his wife have one-way tickets to the good life in FL.

Wow, that's awesome that you and your family has done very well in the cleaning and restoration business. I'm not above working a job that I might not exactly like to make a living. I'm willing to do what it takes to live in Florida on my own. 

I should probably mention that I have an Associates Degree in Information Systems (Information Technology). I graduated in Dec 2012. Due to there being virtually no IT industry in NW Ohio/Toledo I've not been able to get a job in that field. Instead I've been working Full time at a grocery store. I've been keeping up on the IT field and I still follow it diligently. 

But, I'm not married to the idea of working in IT. IT is just one of my skill sets. I don't mind working other kinds of jobs. But, I will search around for IT jobs initially when I get down there. 

I basically know how to work on computers, repair computers, PC software, PC hardware, and all that technology related stuff. I have a wide range of IT related skills.  Technology is my life. 

I do plan on having saved up a nestegg to make the move go easier. So please don't think I'm just moving down Willy Nilly. I've had a savings strategy in place and I've been researching rental costs, good/bad neighborhoods, and where I might work. I've had a lot of time to plan, and I've still got a lot of time ahead of me yet (Summer 2017 at the earliest). 

When I move down I plan to own my own car, have money saved, and have a possible apartment lined up (that's partly why I plan on taking at least 2 trips down to scout everything out).

I have no preferred job field (other than IT). Once I'm down there I'll pretty much be open to working most anything (even if it's not IT). 

Man have we all gotten off topic :) Lol. 

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RobustaEnvirons
4 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Sorry to cast things in a gloom and doom perspective. The older you get the harder it is to move, unless you have a lot of money and can afford a lot of slaves to make it easier. I moved like 10 times when I first got to California; last time was in 2002. Which I'm perfectly happy with for now.

One great thing about the U.S. is our absolute constitutional right to travel among the states. If you make a moving mistake, you're perfectly free to rectify it by going someplace else. No state can set up a legal bar to new residents.

Haha, its cool. I understand your just trying to steer me clear of any pitfalls you may have encountered. I appreciate if; any advice is. 

But your absolutely right. If I don't like it I can just move. I don't really have a whole lot of stuff. I have a little, but no big furniture or things like that. I could probably fit everything I own in 2 cars loads. 

I figure that I'm 26, single, no kids, and free as a bird to move about. I'm not saying I have everything all perfectly in place, but I figure I just have to roll with it and figure it out when that time comes. 

You are right though. That's a good quality of living in America! 

 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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DoomsDave
1 minute ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

Haha, its cool. I understand your just trying to steer my clear of any pitfalls you may have encountered. I appreciate if; any advice is. 

But your absolutely right. If I don't like it I can just move. I don't really have a whole lot of stuff. I have a little, but nothing big furniture or things like that. I could probably fit everything I own in 2 cars loads. 

I figure that I'm 26, single, no kids, and free as a bird to move about. I'm not saying I have everything all perfectly in place, but I figure I just have to roll with it and figure it out when that time comes. 

You are right though. That's a good quality of living in America! 

 

Ah!

26!

You have time to experiment a bit. I say that because sometimes something good pops up unexpectedly. Plan, but don't over-plan. (I tend to do that now.)

I'm 56 and I moved to California when I was 25. Never thought of "going back" to Ohio. Parents begged me to, but they came to visit instead, and understood why I wanted to stay. Loved the palm garden.

So, let us know how it goes, keep us apprized as your adventure unfolds.

There were a few Palmtalkers from Orlando. Orlando, Rat of Doom and all, is still a good starting point. Personally, I'd do like Meg and go to Fort Myers. (Go down there and see why.) I went on a month-long sabbatical to Florida in 2007-2008, and they had to tie me to my seat on the plane. (Well, exaggerating a little!)

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Palmaceae

I recommend the Ft Myers area also! I have lived in St Pete, Orlando and Miami, but I like a Cape Coral the best. I am also in IT, been doing that for over 25 years, and there are a lot of IT jobs here, specially in the larger city areas. My last IT contract ended a couple months ago and I am still looking, but I have a lot of specialized areas I work within the IT field such as Citrix, VMWare, VDI, etc.... I get calls from everywhere in the nation but we are not moving, so I am waiting for that ideal job here. I am also a pastor so I do keep busy.

 

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DoomsDave

For a palm person, Fort Myers is nice because: (a) it's not as harried as Miami can be; (b) has the same general climate near the coast (inland gets cold, a la La Belle); and (c) it's still close enough to be able to take advantage of things Miami has like its airport.

It's also a big enough city that's it's more than just retirees and the Retirement Industrial Complex.

You can grown coconuts. For a Californian, that's whoo-hoo-hoo Holy Grail territory. I remember a law office with a line of Dypsis lutescens 100 feet long along part of the parking lot. Some of the road dividers have Roystoneas and Wodetyias that are had to tell apart.

A lovely place. But, it's not the hive of activity that a place like Orlando is.

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DavidLee

In my opinion you should go further south and more to the coast. Fort Myers south on the west coast and Stuart south on the east coast. If you want to stay in central Florida. Your best bet for growing palms is in Saint Petersburg near the bay and Gulf or go over to the east coast to Brevard County on the barrier islands. I been going to Patrick AFB near cocoa beach and there is perfect looking coconut palms near by.  Saint Pete has alot of old royal palms. Just go over to Sunken Gardens, you will see many royal palms that are over 110 years old there.  I dont see anything like that Orlando. It is warm there,  I guess because of the elevation, urban heat island effect and all the lakes there. When you get a freeze like 1989 everything will be toast.  I went to the island of Palm Beach after the freeze of 1989 and all of the Coconut Palms looked like nothing ever happened. Saint Lucie County and northward looked like a nuclear disaster hit. I know 1989 was along time ago but it could happen again. Also there was alot of freezes like before than. 77, 83, 85. 

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

For a palm person, Fort Myers is nice because: (a) it's not as harried as Miami can be; (b) has the same general climate near the coast (inland gets cold, a la La Belle); and (c) it's still close enough to be able to take advantage of things Miami has like its airport.

It's also a big enough city that's it's more than just retirees and the Retirement Industrial Complex.

You can grown coconuts. For a Californian, that's whoo-hoo-hoo Holy Grail territory. I remember a law office with a line of Dypsis lutescens 100 feet long along part of the parking lot. Some of the road dividers have Roystoneas and Wodetyias that are had to tell apart.

A lovely place. But, it's not the hive of activity that a place like Orlando is.

See, where I can live is really primarily based off of where I can find an affordable apartment. I initially selected Orlando because of its very abundant affordable apartments. Upon doing a search in Ft Myers I actually couldn't find much of any apartments that are in my price range. The city may be nice, I may be able to grow palms better, and all that, but if I can't afford rent then I can't live there. 

For me its all going to hinge on the rent price. I'm looking for apartments no higher than $600/month (studio). So for me its really mostly based on that, whether I can grow palms is secondary. Fort Myers is looking a little expensive.

http://www.forrent.com/find/FL/metro-Fort+Myers/Fort+Myers/price-Less+than+600/beds-studio

I think what I'll probably end of doing is moving to Orlando for a little while and then I'll try to become established enough to live in Ft.Myers (if I end up like it enough). I can always move agian later on once I get down there. Nobody said I have to stay in Orlando. But, initially I'll just be happy to find a $470 Studio apartment and like it. Lol. Remember, I'm coming from Toledo Ohio. The fact that they get 70s in Winter, palm trees, green grass, and blue sky w/ Sunshine will be enough for me (for a while).

Nevertheless, I'll definitely check Ft.Myers out though (when that time comes) to see for myself and see how feasible it could be.       

 

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RobustaEnvirons
3 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Ah!

26!

You have time to experiment a bit. I say that because sometimes something good pops up unexpectedly. Plan, but don't over-plan. (I tend to do that now.)

I'm 56 and I moved to California when I was 25. Never thought of "going back" to Ohio. Parents begged me to, but they came to visit instead, and understood why I wanted to stay. Loved the palm garden.

So, let us know how it goes, keep us apprized as your adventure unfolds.

There were a few Palmtalkers from Orlando. Orlando, Rat of Doom and all, is still a good starting point. Personally, I'd do like Meg and go to Fort Myers. (Go down there and see why.) I went on a month-long sabbatical to Florida in 2007-2008, and they had to tie me to my seat on the plane. (Well, exaggerating a little!)

%0 Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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DoomsDave

When you get there, they might have to tie you into the ride home . . . .

Meg will almost certainly concur!

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RobustaEnvirons
15 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

When you get there, they might have to tie you into the ride home . . . .

Meg will almost certainly concur!

Lol, What do ya mean by that? :unsure: Not sure if I understand what you mean there sorry?

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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DoomsDave
12 minutes ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

Lol, What do ya mean by that? :unsure: Not sure if I understand what you mean there sorry?

You might like it so much you don't want to leave.

That happens anytime I go someplace palmy.

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

You might like it so much you don't want to leave.

That happens anytime I go someplace palmy.

Oh, yeah! I think you might be right about that. Lol. I probably won't want to leave. I love warm climates so much. 

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Eric in Orlando

Winter Park is a very nice but ritzy rich town. If you found apts for $600 it is probably on the way east side along 436, not really the best place to live.

Orlando used to be very affordable to live in until about 10-15 years ago and rent just jumped. Affordable places for $600 a month are either way out in the colder burbs or not great parts of town. I would be very wary and visit places before moving in. If you have questions about a certain area send me a PM.

Metro Orlando/Winter Park are zone 9b/10a. The further from the metro area it is definitely 9b but once you get north/northwest of town it is 9b but can borderline 9a in cold pockets. Our last super killing freeze was Dec. 1989 when it dropped to near 20F 2 nights in a row. Since then it hasn't been below 26F (Feb. 1996). The 2009-10 winter wa a long cool/cold one. But it only affected marginal palms (coconuts, Adonidia, etc) that are sensitive to long cool spells.  

Hot weather can start in late March, thats when we usually get the first 90 temp. Summer usually sets in around late April and by late May/early June we start getting our daily afternoon thunderstorms. The heat lasts until mid to late October. One thing about living inland is that you rarely get the nice late day breezes like along the coast. It gets very sultry inland. I have lived here since 1979 and never experienced a hurricane until 2004. (the was a minimal hurricane around 1995, it was only about 75mph winds when it came ashore and was down to 65-70mph by the time it got to Orlando). In 2004 we had 3 hurricanes pass over in a months time span. The first, Charley, was the worst. Came through here with about 100-105 mph winds. LOTS of trees down, power out for days to a couple weeks. Mostly just roof damage to houses unless a tree fell on it.

If you can find a job in that area I would look in the Cape Canaveral/Cocoa Beach/Melbourne area. Close enough to Orlando to visit activities but far enough away from the crap. Also beachside there is a solid zone 10a and borderline 10b. Lots of coconut palms there. But as mentioned, Ft. Myers is also a nice area, especially near the beach. I really like Jupiter too but it is really starting to grow.

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Yunder Wækraus
On 12/5/2015, 8:15:02, RobustaEnvirons said:

Thank you for your thoughts and advice. I appreciate it. That's crazy that people do things like that!  

I myself actually somewhat enjoy the Hustle and Bustle of a city. I don't exactly want to live in a big city (like Washington DC) but I do appreciate a town the size of Orlando/Tampa. I'm only 26 and I do enjoy the energy of people on the move somewhat. I might really like it there. I'm still working, and I can appreciate a place like Orlando that has the capacity to have many jobs. That's a positive of Orlando is its centralized in the state, and has many different industries for which I can draw from.      

I too get the SAD disorder. That is one of my many reasons for wanting to relocate down to Florida. Certainly not the only reason, but one of many. Here in Toledo Ohio in a normal year we have endless cloud-cover from Mid October-late March (200 days of clouds per year), with a crazy cold winter climate during those months. Its miserable. I love the spring/summer (which is also very humid here on the Great Lakes), but once Fall/Winter rolls around I hate being here. I count down the days until Spring every year.

I understand what you mean perfectly though. I will definitely need to figure out all that out. 

 

  

When we moved out to FL this summer, we could choose anywhere because I was going to be working from home for the year. I was born in the Everglades (Belle Glade), and though I'd lived more than 30 years (=most of my life) in CA, I knew enough about different parts of Florida to know which areas to avoid. I was really pushing for somewhere around Ft. Meyers because I do like South Florida, and it's not too far from my older relatives in the Glades. Also, I wanted to be within solid zone 10 growing, if possible.

However, we decided to move to Brevard County, where I've had relatives living for the past 50 years. We're not too far from Orlando (less than 2 hours), but we're also not too far other points of interest (I can get to Miami in 3 hours, and Saint Augustine is just a touch closer in the other direction). If you live on the barrier island (which, honestly, is called Barrier Island), you'll enjoy seeing all of the zone 10 stuff from South Florida, though I've noticed that a lot of it is shorter than what you see in Miami. (I don't know whether that's because of the intense salt spray carried over the island by wind during fall and winter or the infrequent freezes that kill the tender stuff every 10-30 years.) I'm not a huge fan of Yankees moving to Florida, but I guess they've already conquered much of the state, so why not add one who likes palms :-)

I know for a fact that you can rent apartments on this island with 1-2 bedrooms for $800-$1400 a month. The island is virtually crime-free (no joke), but the mainland (Melbourne & Palm Bay) is more like your typical inland Florida trash heap. There are some nice areas on the mainland to be sure, but if it's just a few hundred dollars of difference between living in Orlando or even Melbourne or Palm Bay, I'd say it's worth it to spend the dough. I know people who do the long commute to Orlando. My cousin commutes every day, and she says it worth it to be able to come home to the beach. Definitely check out the island communities in Brevard (anything south of Cocoa Beach).

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RobustaEnvirons
2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Winter Park is a very nice but ritzy rich town. If you found apts for $600 it is probably on the way east side along 436, not really the best place to live.

Orlando used to be very affordable to live in until about 10-15 years ago and rent just jumped. Affordable places for $600 a month are either way out in the colder burbs or not great parts of town. I would be very wary and visit places before moving in. If you have questions about a certain area send me a PM.

Metro Orlando/Winter Park are zone 9b/10a. The further from the metro area it is definitely 9b but once you get north/northwest of town it is 9b but can borderline 9a in cold pockets. Our last super killing freeze was Dec. 1989 when it dropped to near 20F 2 nights in a row. Since then it hasn't been below 26F (Feb. 1996). The 2009-10 winter wa a long cool/cold one. But it only affected marginal palms (coconuts, Adonidia, etc) that are sensitive to long cool spells.  

Hot weather can start in late March, thats when we usually get the first 90 temp. Summer usually sets in around late April and by late May/early June we start getting our daily afternoon thunderstorms. The heat lasts until mid to late October. One thing about living inland is that you rarely get the nice late day breezes like along the coast. It gets very sultry inland. I have lived here since 1979 and never experienced a hurricane until 2004. (the was a minimal hurricane around 1995, it was only about 75mph winds when it came ashore and was down to 65-70mph by the time it got to Orlando). In 2004 we had 3 hurricanes pass over in a months time span. The first, Charley, was the worst. Came through here with about 100-105 mph winds. LOTS of trees down, power out for days to a couple weeks. Mostly just roof damage to houses unless a tree fell on it.

If you can find a job in that area I would look in the Cape Canaveral/Cocoa Beach/Melbourne area. Close enough to Orlando to visit activities but far enough away from the crap. Also beachside there is a solid zone 10a and borderline 10b. Lots of coconut palms there. But as mentioned, Ft. Myers is also a nice area, especially near the beach. I really like Jupiter too but it is really starting to grow.

I actually only saw that 1 apartment in Winter park. It was okay looking.

But, I've seen apartments posted online all over the Orlando area (some posted as just "Orlando" not really signifying a specific neighborhood) and they're under $600. One I saw was really really nice looking (online at least) and it was all on ground level, resort-style pool (which seems common there) and for $450/month. I see many posted as under $600. 

But, that's really where I have my price range at. I don't want anything other than an efficiency/studio apartment (preferably a ground level) with rent no higher than $600. 

So I really can't be too choosy on where in Orlando/Florida I move too. I plan on initially moving to a place like this and then moving on from there. 

Ft Myers looks a little too pricey for what I can afford initially. I like those other places, but I just don't think I could swing it. I'll be just starting off and all. 

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      The manzanita was thriving!




      View looking west. 

      Over looking the I.E. where L.A. county an San Bernardino county meet. Out in the distance, looking south, is Saddleback, part of the Santa Ana mountains near the border of Orange and Riverside counties. On a clear day the ocean, including Catalina Island, is visible looking south-west. 

    • palmie
      By palmie
      I have a mature Canary Island Date Palm that needs fertilizer badly.  The margins of the fronds are turning yellow prematurely. I finally got the right fertilizer, but I’m not sure how to apply it.  The instruction says to apply it to the area under the canopy.  But the area under canopy are mostly hedges and grass. What do I suppose to do? 
      Apply the fertilizer to the hedges and grass and hope that the wrong fertilizer won’t kill them and some will make it to the root zones of the palm??  
      Alternatively, skip the hedges and the grass, apply only to the Root Initiation Zone (RIZ) of the palm wherever possible, including the dormant aerial roots?
      I’m in South California.  The fertilizer I initially ordered was Palmgain, but it never arrived.  I went to a local store and got Palmtone (organic 4-1-5) and Epsom Salt instead to mimic Palmgain.  Since Palmtone is organic, I'm assuming it's ok to apply close to the trunk where the RIZ is.
      Any help would be greatly appreciated!


    • Coasta
      By Coasta
      hello everyone! Just had a question. I have had this canary island date palm in the ground for about a year and a half. It seems to be growing pretty slow as the trunk hasn't expanded a whole lot and the leaves don't seem to be getting longer. I do fertilize it and water it a few times a week. Any idea orare they this slow when they are small?
      Also I notice that at some nurseries I go to the fronds are way longer than what mine are (45 inches), with about the same size trunk. Does this mean my canary island date palm won't have those awesome super long green fronds and they will be shorter? 

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