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RobustaEnvirons

Southern California to lose its Palms!

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RobustaEnvirons

I was reading up on Southern California's history with Palms and how they grow so tall and I came upon this article. It states that LA isn't replacing their Washingtonia Robusta and Canary Island Date Palm trees! They state only certain tourist-oriented areas will retain palms. Instead they aim to replace these with lousy Oak and other species. I hate this, Southern California is notorious for its skyscraper Washingtonia Robusta! Hollywood Boulevard and Sunset Boulevard are prime examples.

They suit the SoCal climate perfectly since they require little water and take up next to no space to plant. W. Robusta are from Northern Mexico/Sonora Dessert, so I don't know how they can call them non-indigenous! Maybe not indigenous to Los Angeles, but I think they're just nitpicking. Its the same climate and borders are just man-made anyhow. 

I actually don't believe that the palms will ever fully disappear since they rapidly self-propagate, grow everywhere, and are grown by private landowners. There will always be seeds around that birds carry, only to propagate. And the city of LA can't afford to drive around 24/7 to find seeds and remove palms. Not to mention, they can't stop private landowners from planting and or businesses. In turn these will propagate with the wind and regenerate palms everywhere. People like to see them when they go to SoCal/California. Heck, I like to see them anywhere for that matter.   

 

Whats California without palms? 

 

 

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-13-los-angeles-palms_x.htm

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/nov/18/local/me-palms18

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15287692/ns/us_news-environment/

 

Palm_Trees_in_San_Jose_California.jpg

 

WashysStudioCity.jpg

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The Silent Seed

Wow - those are some tall palms! 

Thinking about the height, I can only imagine they are an incredible hassle for the city to keep cleaned up - old leaves and such - maybe that's why? 

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DoomsDave

WELCOME!

And, as a former Ohio resident (inmate? survivor?) I concur about LA's palminess as a trademark.

AND

You might be right.

The palms that used to line the freeways are gone. The palms of Beverly Hills are under assault.

Of course there are those of us who carry the palm torch.

I'm only sort of a former neighbor, I'm originally from Cleveland.

Nice to meet you!

 

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DoomsDave
2 minutes ago, santoury said:

Wow - those are some tall palms! 

Thinking about the height, I can only imagine they are an incredible hassle for the city to keep cleaned up - old leaves and such - maybe that's why? 

Actually, I think it's inertia. They only live so long, then they die. And, they're not being replaced.

I reformed some anti palm people with a visit to my place.

All living things require some maintenance. Are we to be without living things?

Line the streets with graven images? Stone idols?

Yow, been a long day . . . .

 

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RobustaEnvirons
21 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

WELCOME!

And, as a former Ohio resident (inmate? survivor?) I concur about LA's palminess as a trademark.

AND

You might be right.

The palms that used to line the freeways are gone. The palms of Beverly Hills are under assault.

Of course there are those of us who carry the palm torch.

I'm only sort of a former neighbor, I'm originally from Cleveland.

Nice to meet you!

 

Thank you! I live in Toledo Ohio, on the other-side of Lake Erie. So I agree that is sort of a neighbor. I love the tall W. Robusta, and I think they're iconic of California. It would be a sad day if the skyscraper palms didn't exist any-longer. I'm glad I'm not the only one out there that sees the beauty in these palms!  

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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RobustaEnvirons
15 minutes ago, santoury said:

Wow - those are some tall palms! 

Thinking about the height, I can only imagine they are an incredible hassle for the city to keep cleaned up - old leaves and such - maybe that's why? 

Well, from all my (many many) readings on Washingtonia Robusta, once they grow so tall they're somewhat self-maintaining. What I mean is that they loose their petticoat Hula skirt naturally and don't retain it. I believe once they attain 20 feet actually. And they lose their bark-like material as well. Of course the consistent shedding will mean that the ground will be littered with materials often.  

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DoomsDave

See my PM (Private Message)
 

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Sandy Loam

Isn't Los Angeles having a problem with fusarium wilt attacking the washingtonia robustas and the phoenix canariensis?  If so, they could simply avoid those palms in future landscaping.   In downtown Beverly Hills, they are using rows of Archontophoenix as an alternative to Washingtonias or CIDP (photo below).  

 

 

Archontophoenix.jpg

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RobustaEnvirons
4 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

Isn't Los Angeles having a problem with fusarium wilt attacking the washingtonia robustas and the phoenix canariensis?  If so, they could simply avoid those palms in future landscaping.   In downtown Beverly Hills, they are using rows of Archontophoenix as an alternative to Washingtonias or CIDP (photo below).  

 

 

Archontophoenix.jpg

I believe your right though. I do remember reading something like that they are battling that. I'm not wild about Archontophoenix, but at least its a Palm! I only hope we don't look back and try to remember a time when W.Robusta and CIDPs towered over all. Small palms just don't have the same appeal I don't think. But, maybe there in California the Archontophoenix will reach skyscraper heights as well (due to the abundant heat and sunshine). 

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DoomsDave

Well, the Archies won't take the dry.

I doubt they'll get skyscraper high . . .

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RobustaEnvirons
Just now, DoomsDave said:

Well, the Archies won't take the dry.

I doubt they'll get skyscraper high . . .

Aw... That's a bummer!

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DoomsDave

Agreed.

But, I plant and water.

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displaced_floridian

Well, they could 'plant'  palms with stone columns for trunks, and artificial w. robusta crowns.  Maintenance free !

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Mr. Coconut Palm

L.A. without Washingtonia robustas and CIDP's would be like Miami without coconut palms!  It just wouldn't look right!

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Briank

Dave always tells me when he knows he is back in so cal when he leaves and comes back to them Washingtonia's!  

 

Im not a fan of them much.  But what you will notice as I do, the major Commercial Palm going in every where is the Phoenix Dac! They are everywhere now. 

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RobustaEnvirons
5 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

L.A. without Washingtonia robustas and CIDP's would be like Miami without coconut palms!  It just wouldn't look right!

True, I agree. Miami was deliberating on not replanting their Royal palms and it was met with opposition. They at least have approached it intelligently, recognizing that without palms their city will be drab and less desirable. And some residents have defended palms, since they stand up to hurricanes better than a regular canopy tree. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/22/national/22palm.html?pagewanted=2

 

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RobustaEnvirons
3 hours ago, Briank said:

Dave always tells me when he knows he is back in so cal when he leaves and comes back to them Washingtonia's!  

 

Im not a fan of them much.  But what you will notice as I do, the major Commercial Palm going in every where is the Phoenix Dac! They are everywhere now. 

I do enjoy the Phoenix dactylifera. They are another of my favorite California palms (and favorite palms overall). I think they look majestic and just as nice as the W. Robusta or CIDP. 

IMAG0425.jpg

Edited by RobustaEnvirons
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Brad Mondel

If you ever visit SoCal and L.A then you will quickly realize that there is no shortage of Washingtonias and many businesses and private home owners still install Washingtonias. 

Not to mention they sprout up everywhere and trees even grow out of the pavement and between railways. 

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RobustaEnvirons
14 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

If you ever visit SoCal and L.A then you will quickly realize that there is no shortage of Washingtonias and many businesses and private home owners still install Washingtonias. 

Not to mention they sprout up everywhere and trees even grow out of the pavement and between railways. 

I agree, they do. I visited California in April. I took the Phoenix dactylifera picture above. I took it outside the mall in Hanford California. 

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Ben in Norcal
25 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

If you ever visit SoCal and L.A then you will quickly realize that there is no shortage of Washingtonias and many businesses and private home owners still install Washingtonias. 

Not to mention they sprout up everywhere and trees even grow out of the pavement and between railways. 

Same is true in Central California (e.g. the Bay Area - which is called Northern California but isn't really!) 

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Sandy Loam

I far prefer 50-year old washingtonia robusta to 50-year old phoenix dactylifera. The tall washingtonias are quintessentially LA. The dactyliferas say "middle east desert palm" to me --- not Los Angeles.  Why all the rage for phoenix dactylifera? Are they pest-free/fungus-resistant?

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RobustaEnvirons
9 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

I far prefer 50-year old washingtonia robusta to 50-year old phoenix dactylifera. The tall washingtonias are quintessentially LA. The dactyliferas say "middle east desert palm" to me --- not Los Angeles.  Why all the rage for phoenix dactylifera? Are they pest-free/fungus-resistant?

I like them all actually. Dactyliferas doesn't say that too me I guess. It seems like a palm for California too me at least. That could be because I've seen it so much (associated with California). I don't know. They're all nice. 

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RobustaEnvirons
6 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Same is true in Central California (e.g. the Bay Area - which is called Northern California but isn't really!) 

I actually visited Hanford California in the Central Valley for a week back in April. It was so nice there! I loved the skyscraper W.Robusta and all the rest. I arrived April 13 and it was in the 80s & 90s the entire time I was in California! The blazing sun, not a single cloud in the sky, and super warm temps. And in April no less! Back home we were still enduring 40s & 50s with rain and endless clouds.  

I rode a train there from Toledo Ohio, all across America and to downtown LA where I caught a 4 hour bus to Bakersfield and lastly a train to Hanford. I loved California though. It was a nice place to be. The mountains, tall palm trees, the cities, and ocean we all very nice to see.  

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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RobustaEnvirons

Washingtonia Robusta even get tall in Florida. Albeit not as often as the abundant lightning blasts their tops off.  

This is in Miami Florida. 

F0f07e.jpg

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Ben in Norcal
2 hours ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

I actually visited Hanford California in the Central Valley for a week back in April. It was so nice there! I loved the skyscraper W.Robusta and all the rest. I arrived April 13 and it was in the 80s & 90s the entire time I was in California! The blazing sun, not a single cloud in the sky, and super warm temps. And in April no less! Back home we were still enduring 40s & 50s with rain and endless clouds.  

I rode a train there from Toledo Ohio, all across America and to downtown LA where I caught a 4 hour bus to Bakersfield and lastly a train to Hanford. I loved California though. It was a nice place to be. The mountains, tall palm trees, the cities, and ocean we all very nice to see.  

I'm originally from the Midwest as well (Chicago.)  No way could I go back.  Although, I do sometimes still have to laugh - it was like 55 degrees here today when I was picking up my daughter from daycare, and our care provider was like "Are you crazy?  Aren't you FREEZING without a jacket?"  I was wearing a sweatshirt, walking 10 feet from my car to her house.  LOL. 

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Josh-O

I'll pass on cold freezing weather at all times ^_^

 

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

I'll pass on cold freezing weather at all times ^_^

 

I agree, that's why I have it in the works to move down to Orlando, Florida. I'll go from a Humid Continental climate to a Humid Subtropical climate. Its cold here in Toledo Ohio, currently 38F. 

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RobustaEnvirons
1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I'm originally from the Midwest as well (Chicago.)  No way could I go back.  Although, I do sometimes still have to laugh - it was like 55 degrees here today when I was picking up my daughter from daycare, and our care provider was like "Are you crazy?  Aren't you FREEZING without a jacket?"  I was wearing a sweatshirt, walking 10 feet from my car to her house.  LOL. 

I'd kill for 55F! Today's high temp was 53F and that was also the high temp for the week. Every other day this week will be no warmer than 49F (during the day). I can't see spending the rest of my life drudging through this. I live for summer, its the only time I'm truly happy. I don't enjoy living as much in the cold months, as much as Spring/Summer. It depresses me when I first start to see the leave die in the Fall. I also get depressed in the Winter, seeing the endless cloudy skies, snow, ice, freezing temps, and seeing how dead everything is. I can do so much with my day in the Spring/Summer, and pretty much all there is to do in the Winter is stay inside watching TV or on the computer. I enjoy living in a place that's warm and lively all-year round. Orlando averages in the 70s even during the Winter. They get the occasional cold snap, but nothing compared to what I've lived through up here in the icey north.    

 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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_Keith

Those palms are both iconic and representative of SoCal, but is it representative of the California of tomorrow.  Whatever is planted palms or trees, it will take decades to reach those iconic sizes again.  This is not the first iconic California planting.   Once it was another tree.   Things change, both climates and tastes.  Those majestic palms weren't always majestic, they were new plantings and represented the vision of the time.   They have lived to their peak.   Very few live their lives without remodeling/redesigning their homes and even their gardens.  Some people obviously think it is time for a change, and maybe it is.   Maybe it is time to remodel from that Beverly HIllbillies look.  It is a new century.

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RobustaEnvirons

Hello _Keith! I read your post responding to da Moose. You've got a nice W. Robusta there, and a nice garden! 

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RobustaEnvirons
7 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Those palms are both iconic and representative of SoCal, but is it representative of the California of tomorrow.  Whatever is planted palms or trees, it will take decades to reach those iconic sizes again.  This is not the first iconic California planting.   Once it was another tree.   Things change, both climates and tastes.  Those majestic palms weren't always majestic, they were new plantings and represented the vision of the time.   They have lived to their peak.   Very few live their lives without remodeling/redesigning their homes and even their gardens.  Some people obviously think it is time for a change, and maybe it is.   Maybe it is time to remodel from that Beverly HIllbillies look.  It is a new century.

I hear what your saying _Keith, but I for one like the way California is now. I don't want to see it lose key characteristics of how it presently is. Of course I realize things can't stay the same forever. I know change is a constant in the world. But, I just hate change. Always have.   

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_Keith
3 minutes ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

Hello _Keith! I read your post responding to da Moose. You've got a nice W. Robusta there, and a nice garden! 

Thanks.  Here is Zone 9a, the palm palette to choose from is quite limited to start with, but either way I love my robustas and filibustas, and only with I could grow a true filifera.

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RobustaEnvirons
1 minute ago, _Keith said:

Thanks.  Here is Zone 9a, the palm palette to choose from is quite limited to start with, but either way I love my robustas and filibustas, and only with I could grow a true filifera.

Even still, at least you can grow palms (even with a limited selection). I live in zone 6B and my options are fewer still. I can pretty much only grow Needle palm, and Trachycarpus Fortunei, and or Trachycarpus Wagnerianus. And the Trachys would need to be protected at that (for at least the first 2-3 years). I'm mostly confined to indoor growing. But still, South Louisiana isn't too bad a climate.  

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Josh-O
58 minutes ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

I agree, that's why I have it in the works to move down to Orlando, Florida. I'll go from a Humid Continental climate to a Humid Subtropical climate. Its cold here in Toledo Ohio, currently 38F. 

Soon you'll be posting coconut pictures and will probably need to change your moniker name :D

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RobustaEnvirons
18 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

Soon you'll be posting coconut pictures and will probably need to change your moniker name :D

Yeah! That's true. However, there are quite a few W.Robusta in Florida (see my previous photo above) and CIDPs. I've been to Florida a few times and they have them there. But, I like Coconut palms, Royal palms and other tropical palms too!  

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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_Keith

Five years after you move there they'll just be weeds, and when the nuts and fronds fall on your car, or worse family, you'll really be P!SS@d.

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RobustaEnvirons
1 minute ago, _Keith said:

Five years after you move there they'll just be weeds, and when the nuts and fronds fall on your car, or worse family, you'll really be P!SS@d.

What do you mean by "they'll just be weeds"? Like the coconut palms will be like weeds? Judging from your opinion, I take it you're not a big fan of Florida or Coconut palms?

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_Keith
Just now, RobustaEnvirons said:

What do you mean by "they'll just be weeds"? Like the coconut palms will be like weeds? Judging from your opinion, I take it you're not a big fan of Florida or Coconut palms?

Yes, I was talking about the Cocos and Royals, but just making a joke, well kinda.  I absolutely love them.  If I could grow them I would have a yard full.   But just as many Cali's think W robustas are a pain in the rear, so do many S. Floridians think the same of the Coconuts and huge Royal fronds falling.   They can be quite dangerous and many take great expense to keep their trees clean.  And many times I have heard of them cut down, or people being joyful when they perish.  Like the old saying, "One man's weed is another man's flower."

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RobustaEnvirons
16 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Yes, I was talking about the Cocos and Royals, but just making a joke, well kinda.  I absolutely love them.  If I could grow them I would have a yard full.   But just as many Cali's think W robustas are a pain in the rear, so do many S. Floridians think the same of the Coconuts and huge Royal fronds falling.   They can be quite dangerous and many take great expense to keep their trees clean.  And many times I have heard of them cut down, or people being joyful when they perish.  Like the old saying, "One man's weed is another man's flower."

Haha, ok I see what you mean now. I didn't know any of that about the coconut palm and Royal palm. I'm actually not a big fan of them falling off and hitting my car either, lol. 

When I move down there I'll be living in an apartment anyhow. So I'll still have my palms potted indoors. But, at least I'll be in the right climate. There are some apartments that are all on the ground level (only ground level apartments) and on some they include a small front patio.

I think they call them Garden style apartments. If I get one like that I can put my palms outdoors. One day maybe I can own my own home and then plant many different varieties of palms in my backyard. One day.

I guess there are things to both like & dislike about Cali palms and Florida palms. Different things for each. But your right though. I actually love W.Robusta even though many in California consider it a weed of a palm. 

Edited by RobustaEnvirons

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Sandy Loam
2 hours ago, RobustaEnvirons said:
2 hours ago, RobustaEnvirons said:

I agree, that's why I have it in the works to move down to Orlando, Florida. I'll go from a Humid Continental climate to a Humid Subtropical climate. Its cold here in Toledo Ohio, currently 38F. 

I agree, that's why I have it in the works to move down to Orlando, Florida. I'll go from a Humid Continental climate to a Humid Subtropical climate. Its cold here in Toledo Ohio, currently 38F.

__________

Skip Orlando! Too many cold nights in winter -- although we have only had 70s-80s Fahrenheit so far this winter. Keep on driving south to the tropical zone: Fort Lauderdale down to the tip of Key West. You'll never be cold again.

 

 

Edited by Sandy Loam

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