Jump to content
NorCalKing

First real cold of the season!

Recommended Posts

NorCalKing

 

So looks like winter has made an early arrival here in Nor Cal...dropped down to 29.3 for a couple of hours here last night (back up to 50 degrees atm). Hopefully the King Palm is ok. Had 32 a few days ago, no discernible effects.

Edited by NorCalKing
Spell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

There is massive variability across the area.  I have elevation and the winds kept up last night - between 5-7 a.m. I bottomed out at 40-42.  Looks like one more night of this - as long as I don't get more than 10 degrees colder, I should be alright...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

Nice. Yeah, we had dead still winds, and no elevation here in the valley. Lots of sun this am so the trees are soaking in the warmth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

Fingers crossed for all of us through one more night!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm crazy

Last night was the last of a 12 night freezing spell. Lowest was 24F, days in the 40s.  The next two weeks will warm up into the 40’s at night.

 All my bananas are brown except for the one close to the house which is fruiting. Maybe now it will continue to bloom.  Some spring bulbs are starting to come up. And abutilon still has some blooms for the hummers. 

Edited by Palm crazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

Thankfully we are warming back up 60's during the day, mid 30's overnight lows.

Good thing I had the frost blanket handy for the giant bird of paradise!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WestCoastGal

Same here. We actually got some light rain today for a brief period. Early Saturday morning looks like it will be our next cold window in low 30s. Glad we will be getting a break from the non-stop below freezing temps finally. Last night probably saw high 20s/low 30s here based on nearby weather stations. Pretty much been in that below-freezing range since last Wednesday. Frost on ground and on car windows. Pretty much similar temps as my mom has back east right now. 

Our yard since Wednesday has been an interesting mix of cold hardy tropical looking palms (no problem at these temps) and "igloo" frost cloth structures (rebar and pvc) protecting our birds of paradise (all in bloom), philodendron, Sunpatiens (still in bloom), and a dwarf orange tree (with a nice crop this year). Last year we staked each tender plant area with rebar that we decided to keep the rebar in the ground year-round and covered it with brown hose material to blend with our mini mulch (also provided protection from the rebar when working in the beds). Really cut down on the time to set up the pvc and frost cloth this year. After our last really cold winter we ordered a large roll of frost cloth from a supplier recommended on here and it made things so much easier. The new roll is 12' x 250' where as before we had packages that were 10' x 12', and really required more creativity in how we wrapped and clipped stuff. Didn't always work out well either. This 12' width roll worked out really well and it was so easy to cut to the needed length of our beds. Bit of a bite in the wallet, but decidedly worth it in set up ease and continuous coverage. Should last us for years to come although I'd rather not have to put frost cloth out at all. Don't see us moving though.

Happy to say I've seen some hummingbirds this week enjoying our blooming dwarf kangaroo paws which are located next to a west facing stucco wall. Glad those didn't need to be covered and the birds could get to them. From what I've read December is suppose to be the coldest month for us. At least we are ready for the cold. Now just wonder what the rain will be like.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

Sounds like you have a great system :)

Yeah, I have a few frost cloth teepee's setup around the more tender stuff. My King Palm is going bare (hopefully that's not going to come back to bite me). My regular BOP is uncovered as well, just a little bit of a roof overhang giving it some protection. Last season lost most the leaves on the giant BOP and had to wait for June+ for it to look full again.

 

Last night it dipped to 35, which I can live with. Temps all 60's for the next 10 days or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

What's the hardiness of GBOP?  They are all over the place here, and I know they don't get protected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

This was the last pattern we had. When the jet stream comes off land, we're almost always toast. Like being in Montana for a few days

 

IMG_9704.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

Here is some more EXTREMELY cold air coming down. Luckily this one isn't over land so should prevent it from being too bad. Until the pattern back east changes, we're going to keep getting Arctic nukes and I'm afraid one will eventually really do some damage

 

gfs_850_10d.gif

Edited by enigma99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

@Ben in Norcal

GBOP are very hardy (when mature) I had a day at 28f last winter that killed all the leaves, but they come back no problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O
On 11/28/2015, 10:04:58, NorCalKing said:

 

So looks like winter has made an early arrival here in Nor Cal...dropped down to 29.3 for a couple of hours here last night (back up to 50 degrees atm). Hopefully the King Palm is ok. Had 32 a few days ago, no discernible effects.

Ron,

It sounds like you are more of a zone 9a/9b if you were that much colder then Ben.

what's your average low temps?

Are you growing any hybrids?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exotic Life

Not a sign of cold at the other side of the Atlantic. 
After a very mild November it looks like December is starting quite mild as well. High's from 11-14C and low's from 7-10C forecasted for this and next week. 
It is however very dark because it is very cloudy and because of that very wet as well. The last few days we had loads of rainfall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing
11 hours ago, Josh-O said:

Ron,

It sounds like you are more of a zone 9a/9b if you were that much colder then Ben.

what's your average low temps?

Are you growing any hybrids?

We are a 9b. Our average overnight lows (the coldest time of the year) are 37f. So this last cold snap was really unusual. Ben I believe was assisted with the last cold snap by being located on a higher elevation, and their winds remained overnight, where ours dipped to nothing.

Edited by NorCalKing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal
9 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

We are a 9b. Our average overnight lows (the coldest time of the year) are 37f. So this last cold snap was really unusual. Ben I believe was assisted with the last cold snap by being located on a higher elevation, and their winds remained overnight, where ours dipped to nothing.

The cities around me (e.g. Walnut Creek, Concord) are 9b as well, but areas of elevation around me are a low 10a.  Average lows aren't much different, but rarely freezes and doesn't drop below 30.  Down in the valley (e.g. Walnut Creek) lows are typically 7-8 degrees lower than me during our cold snaps, which makes a big difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing
2 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

The cities around me (e.g. Walnut Creek, Concord) are 9b as well, but areas of elevation around me are a low 10a.  Average lows aren't much different, but rarely freezes and doesn't drop below 30.  Down in the valley (e.g. Walnut Creek) lows are typically 7-8 degrees lower than me during our cold snaps, which makes a big difference.

That's a nice cushion to have when the real cold stuff settles in like the last one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

Yeah, I still get stressed.  But my bananas took no damage last week, while readings down in Walnut Creek were 25-26 across multiple stations.  I'm very happy we bought here - sheer luck as I knew nothing about palms, plants, or microclimates when we purchased.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
16 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Yeah, I still get stressed.  But my bananas took no damage last week, while readings down in Walnut Creek were 25-26 across multiple stations.  I'm very happy we bought here - sheer luck as I knew nothing about palms, plants, or microclimates when we purchased.

Good news is, on average we usually only get one event per winter that is that bad. So statistically, I think most areas should remain over 30 for the rest of the winter. But what do I know :)

Also they got down to 25-26? wow.. suddenly I don't hate my location as much haha

Edited by enigma99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal
3 hours ago, enigma99 said:

Good news is, on average we usually only get one event per winter that is that bad. So statistically, I think most areas should remain over 30 for the rest of the winter. But what do I know :)

Also they got down to 25-26? wow.. suddenly I don't hate my location as much haha

Yup.  East Bay valleys can be COLD!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

Ready for some more cold? I think the usual cold valley spots will probably dip below freezing a little but this will be nowhere near the last one. 

gfs_850_7e.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

When is this due, Derrick?  I am showing some high-30s at the end of the 10-day, but not too bad...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Josh-O

I saw in the news last night that this cold front will likely loose steam due to the high ridge of pressure? At least for southern california anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
4 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

When is this due, Derrick?  I am showing some high-30s at the end of the 10-day, but not too bad...

Probably around the 12th or so. I never worry too much when the jet stream comes off the ocean though, just going to make things chilly and our palms won't be growing for a few days. Don't worry about this one :) When it comes straight down or from the East, that is when I start getting worried. Hoping the pattern is changing soon as this doesn't help our drought situation

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

Update.. Looking like a freeze coming up on the 14th. Man this pattern just won't change! It is like locked in. If we don't get some warmer storms, we will never catch up on rainfall

Translation: depending on rainfall and cloud cover or lack of, it could be pretty cold. Probably about the same as the last one. Will be watching it and it is 8 days out so a little soon to say how cold it will be right now

image.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ben in Norcal

I'm holding in the high 30s for the 14th/15th, at least for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John Case

high 30's are predicted for my area as well......but where did my rain go? (sigh)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm crazy

The rain is back in our backyard again, looks like a good amount of warm rain up here in PNW. Then a short dry period the second week, nothing unusual here. The second week might mean rain for Cali if the jet stream goes south. Stay tuned. 

December is usually mild here and very windy.

http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/usa/olympia/ext

Edited by Palm crazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

Showing mid 30's here in the Tri Valley atm for the 14th

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
1 hour ago, NorCalKing said:

Showing mid 30's here in the Tri Valley atm for the 14th

Yeah I don't have any freezing weather in my forecast but thankfully the model ran a lot warmer this morning. At least we have some mild weather for thr next few days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

My backyard weather station hit 70.5 here this aft :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
2 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

My backyard weather station hit 70.5 here this aft :D

Yeah and still in the 60s at 7pm. My palms have been putting on some good growth lately

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tstieber
On 11/30/2015, 10:31:30, WestCoastGal said:

Our yard since Wednesday has been an interesting mix of cold hardy tropical looking palms (no problem at these temps) and "igloo" frost cloth structures (rebar and pvc) protecting our birds of paradise (all in bloom), philodendron, Sunpatiens (still in bloom), and a dwarf orange tree (with a nice crop this year). Last year we staked each tender plant area with rebar that we decided to keep the rebar in the ground year-round and covered it with brown hose material to blend with our mini mulch (also provided protection from the rebar when working in the beds). Really cut down on the time to set up the pvc and frost cloth this year. After our last really cold winter we ordered a large roll of frost cloth from a supplier recommended on here and it made things so much easier. The new roll is 12' x 250' where as before we had packages that were 10' x 12', and really required more creativity in how we wrapped and clipped stuff. Didn't always work out well either. This 12' width roll worked out really well and it was so easy to cut to the needed length of our beds. Bit of a bite in the wallet, but decidedly worth it in set up ease and continuous coverage. Should last us for years to come although I'd rather not have to put frost cloth out at all. Don't see us moving though.

 

It's impressive that you go to so much trouble for your plants, but I wanted to save you some time and effort, as you're really protecting a number of plants that don't even need protection, namely the philodendron, birds of paradise, and the orange tree.  I've been in California all my life, grew up in Walnut Creek, my parents are still there and have been growing all of these things for decades, and we've never given those species any frost protection and have never, ever had any frost damage on them, even in the coldest years.  While 'giant' bird of paradise is quite frost tender, the regular size one is much tougher and even shrugged off last year's 22F temps for several nights (the coldest in nearly 25 years, and within 2 degrees of our all-time record low) without even a scratch.  Same for citrus and philodendrons.  These are all hardy enough to withstand the sporadic and short-lived frosts and freezes of the area.  Even during the all-time record cold spell of 1990, which was an entirely different beast, these plants were not the ones to suffer damage.  Although they may appear very tender, and they certainly would not be hardy in colder places like the East Coast, they are not as tender as people think.  Your Sunpatiens definitely need the frost protection if you want to preserve those, but you can save the time and effort on the rest.

Allow me to attach a few photos of these philodendrons and birds of paradise from my parents' current home in Walnut Creek to illustrate the fact that protection is not necessary.  Although these are against the house wall, there are others in the middle of the yard that also never show damage.  Now some of the king palms mentioned here are a whole different story, and those are certainly marginal, but feel free to enjoy your yard year-round without worry.  :-)

20130526_130541.jpg

IMG_0285.JPG

IMG_0297.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WestCoastGal

Beautiful landscaping! Appreciate the info, however we have learned from our experience here two years ago and don't want to relive it. That was a really rough winter. Started out mild and everything was in bloom. Last year was much milder. After 2013 we decided we'd rather take the time and cover more tender things, especially those in bloom now, and continue to enjoy them come spring rather than have them cut down to the ground and wait for two years for them to start to make a comeback leaving our landscaping ugly in the meantime. We also would rather set up the frost cloth in milder temps and open it up during warm days than spend an hour or so in the freezing cold setting up for when we get a bad freeze alert and really need the protection. 

We are inland valley floor south of San Jose and while listed as 9b, Sunset 14, we can get freeze damage. Historically our area has had 20F temps. I believe from talking with Dick Douglas a number of years ago comparing our areas (this was when we were planning our landscaping) he said that Walnut Creek has more of a marine influence than we do. Not all of our birds are close to a house wall, and even those that are, some were cut down due to freeze damage in 2013. We dropped to I think 23F then and had way too many continuous nights below freezing that lasted for many hours. Maybe even a week or so. Several of our outlying birds near our seating area had frost cover that blew off and suffered freeze damage. Despite the overhang and stucco west wall, one of our S. reginae that had it's frost cloth blow off got frozen too. Ones that were covered survived and stayed in bloom. Our P. 'Hope' has rather thin frilly leaves, no where as thick as the birds' leaves, and I know if we didn't cover it it would have been cut to the ground as well. Hubby's dwarf orange tree had a number of leaves curl, brown and fall off along with losing flower buds. Didn't have many oranges later that year. Nice crop this year though. I expected the canna to freeze to the ground, fast growing so didn't care about those. Also expected the SunPatiens to be killed off. Some of those were frost covered in time and I was delighted that we've had them going on 3 years now and they look great and don't feel the need to replace them. I wish the frost cover wasn't necessary for us but enjoying flowering plants kind of year round is worth the effort. For us at least.

Here's a few pics of the damage from 2013 and a few pics of the same plants 2 years later. Still not what they were back before the 2013 freeze. As you can tell from the bird near the house it is still much shorter than what it was and still looks out of place with the two other birds on that wall that stayed covered.

5667404404069_PT2013colddamage1.jpg.4ccb56674071103ae_PT2013colddamage3.jpg.c658566740acb1e11_PT2013colddamage2yrslater2

56674061d4fa9_PT2013colddamage2.jpg.f7a35667409be61c2_PT2013colddamage2yrslater15667464e48fc1_2015color1.jpg.7cad66ebfbe

 

One of the benefits of taking the time to frost cloth we found is that during the winter it does seem to provide more of a greenhouse effect for them and what was covered seemed to have a good head start on the spring season with growth and flowering. Last year we covered this area too and the kangaroo paws were magnificent and taller than average listed height.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WestCoastGal

For anyone curious what our protection looks like here's some photos from 2014. We used different clips and bought wider cloth for this year as mentioned above. Leaving the rebar in the ground year round makes the pole installation quick. Attaching the frost cloth now actually takes more time than positioning the poles.

566752f8c8bfb_Frostprotection20141.jpg.e5667530102012_Frostprotection20142.jpg.1566753163f858_Frostprotection20143.jpg.d

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

I have to agree tstieber with on a couple of points...The giant bird is far more frost sensitive, as I mentioned, I lost all the leaves last year @ 28f. Now the (orange) smaller ones on the other hand, they can shrug off 28f. Also the orange tree's should laugh at the coldest we get in our chilly inland gardens. As well as the philodendron's, they don't get harmed. 

This is Livermore Valley observations btw.

Update: 10 days after our original cold blast the King Palm is showing no frost/freeze damage at all after a brief 40min dip to 27f o.O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

Only bird of paradise, queens and kings? Come on, where are the zone pushers? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

Speaking of cold, it is looking pretty sure that next Tue and Wed are going to be really, really cold. The weather sites are not showing any crazy temps yet, but they will as we get closer. Just it is impossible to have air that cold above at 5000' and not have a hard freeze. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCalKing

 

Come on!!! A King is ZONE pushing for the cold inland valleys (unprotected) lol

Yep, looking really cold again! 31f forecasted for us.

Funny enough, last night it never dipped below 50f (which is also the current temp)

Edited by NorCalKing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99

My low was 51, but cloud cover traps the heat from floating to the void of space

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...