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Is my Mule Sterile?


Alicehunter2000

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This is the second inflorescense to do this on my smaller mule. Fruiting Butia likely in the neighborhood.  Lots of bees.

Sterile?5647683f6151a_2015-11-1410.56.57.thumb.j

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I thought mules can back cross if pollinated with queen or butia pollen.

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Only one way to find out for sure.   I'll test some seeds for ya. <wink>

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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56477d106befa_2015-11-1412.26.16.thumb.jYou think a dremmel and a pair of plyers would work. ....what would an embryo look like. BTW the fruit not quite as tasty as srait Butia and seeds are between the two. They sink

Edited by Alicehunter2000

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Use Klein cable cutters, or smash with a hammer. Either the seeds will be solid or they will have large embrys. Based on the size they look to be fertile.

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Usually they're self sterile but that doesn't mean it can't get pollinated from another close by tree. Hopefully there's an embryo and an endosperm inside. 

Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

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22 hours ago, _Keith said:

Only one way to find out for sure.   I'll test some seeds for ya. <wink>

I'm with Keith - I'll try and germinate some! ;)

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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  • 4 weeks later...

56477d106befa_2015-11-1412.26.16.thumb.jYou think a dremmel and a pair of plyers would work. ....what would an embryo look like. BTW the fruit not quite as tasty as srait Butia and seeds are between the two.

20151212_102240.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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What say the experts?

20151212_102302.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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they look like little miniature coconut from this angle :lol:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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1 hour ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

What say the experts?

Your photos don’t show the embryos, only parts of the endosperm. The (1 to 3) embryos are inside the endocarp pores. For comparison two cross sections of Syagrus weddelliana seeds, one showing the embryo before germination, the other at beginning germination.

566c5c02bf790_SyagrusromanzoffianaSeeds.

566c5c091bbfe_SyagrusweddellianaEmbryos.

 

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Thanks Pal,

I guess the question now is since the seeds developed partially would it be a good candidate for an intentional backcross. Most all my mules never make it to this stage. I may cut a bunch more to see if any are more dveloped. I have more from a different spathe that developed fruit earlier

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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7 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Thanks Pal,

I guess the question now is since the seeds developed partially would it be a good candidate for an intentional backcross. Most all my mules never make it to this stage. I may cut a bunch more to see if any are more dveloped. I have more from a different spathe that developed fruit earlier

Perhaps there is something like an embryo (?):

566c61bba6754_Mule20151212_102302.thumb.

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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If it is not sterile, it is not a mule, lol.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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I cut a few more with bolt cutters....

Looky looky what one had inside!

2015-12-12 13.18.58.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Most likely (BxS)xB

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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For Keith

2015-12-12 13.26.36.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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2015-12-12 13.33.47.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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:wacko: I'm confused ......what is the big thing in the middle that has the point at one of the eyes? The others didn't have this. 

Also....why does this particular mule hold its seeds until it has orange fruit but my other mules abort everything?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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17 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

:wacko: I'm confused ......what is the big thing in the middle that has the point at one of the eyes? The others didn't have this. 

Also....why does this particular mule hold its seeds until it has orange fruit but my other mules abort everything?

Oh, I am confused, too. Is this in the middle of the fruit a (negative) hollow or a (positive) seed? If so, the point at the pore could be the embryo … :huh:

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Dunno why it looks blue....really rare I guess...lol

Even if it is sterile.... (the woody area)....why does it have what appears to be an embryo inside that woody shell? Also still waiting on thoughts regarding why this mule develops normal looking fruit while my other mules abort everything. ..... how can something be only a little bit pregnant ...lol

Also why did this particular seed appear to develop further than the others I cracked open?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Ok...I think I can answer the question of what is in the center of the woody endocarp part.

That appears to be the tegument of the Kernel....I will break the kernel open to see if it has white interior.

0101-2061-cta-1678-457X6652-gf01.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Hold the presses....I scraped off the end of tegument and voila ..... a coconutty white kernal!

2015-12-12 17.37.51.jpg

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I am pulling for you, and all this is good fun, but in the end all is answered and only answered by a healthy seedling.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Pal...yes the dark shell is the endocarp....you have it labled as a mescarp (fruit) ..... the fruit was already cleaned from the seed.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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cosprt6b.jpg

  • Upvote 1

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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I thought when germinated they revert back to the mother plant. I have a fruiting coconut queen and the seedlings never look like the hybrid. I would not think they are sterile they just wont be a true F1 hybrid?

Example:

Mule reverts back to queen not butia

Coconut queens revert back to queen not syagrus schizophylla..ETC

What do the masses think?

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Yes... I scraped the endocarp with my nail and revealed the white coconut meat (endosperm ). I also noted before I cut with bolt cutters that I had a functional pore as described on the illustration. 

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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