who here has the most northern exotic palm collection ?

[NCFM]

@UK_Palms Great pictures and info! I did not expect to see so many impressive CIDP and washy specimens in England.  I’m definitely jealous of your consistently mild winter temps that make it all possible. Over here in the Southeastern US we have plenty of sun and summer heat, and mostly mild winter temps, but then an arctic blast will come through and ruin everything. Wish we had an East/West mountain range or something of that nature to protect us from the polar vortex. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast
Typo

[Ryland]

@UK_Palms I've enjoyed seeing the many examples you've managed to find of happy palms growing in London and a few other places.  I'm going to have to go out of my way next time I'm in London (if travel is ever possible again) to see a few of these in person - especially the impressive Phoenix canariensis and Jubaea chilensis street plantings.  I've seen the huge roundabout canariensis in Westminster before and many squished into front gardens, but I didn't know of so many publicly planted ones.

I think you're right in that the west coast of Wales, England and Scotland right up to the western isles have mild enough winters to allow the same palms to survive, but the lack of heat means they will grow much slower.  Some of the Scottish islands hardly ever see a frost, but temperatures over 20C are similarly rare.  The east coast is not as good but you could still get away with a lot, as evidenced by the Scarborough palm.  Most of Ireland of course would be very suitable for similar palms, but I know of only a handful of examples.

It will take some time, because I've only had my house three years, but I'm eventually hoping to turn this tiny Manchester terraced house garden into a tropical oasis/experiment.  There's just enough of the Irish Sea moderation combined with the heat from the south that I think it will be a success.

[UK_Palms]

I'm amazed how well and healthy all the palms look in London after just experiencing our coldest January in 11 years and our coldest February in 3 years. They are pretty much damage free.

All these videos have been taken in London over the past few weeks by RH GROWS... and it just shows a fraction of what is lurking out there nowadays at lat 51N...

The big washie in Darlaston Road, Wimbledon...

 

Filibusta hybrid in Ilford, northeast London

Rovusta's on Old Brompton Road, London

River Gardens CIDP in Fulham, London

CIDP in Egerton Place, London

These palms are totally unaffected by the two freezes in early January and mid February. Most of these probably saw about 25F last winter and about 48 hours below freezing, on two separate occasions. That Butia hasn't taken a single bit of damage by the looks of things. The last video was only just taken today by RH GROWS. Mad respect to him for uploading these. 

Hard to believe that these palms are located at the same latitude as Saskatoon in Canada and further north than Winnipeg. 

 

[GottmitAlex]

59 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I'm amazed how well and healthy all the palms look in London after just experiencing our coldest January in 11 years and our coldest February in 3 years. They are pretty much damage free.

All these videos have been taken in London over the past few weeks by RH GROWS... and it just shows a fraction of what is lurking out there nowadays at lat 51N...

The big washie in Darlaston Road, Wimbledon...

 

Filibusta hybrid in Ilford, northeast London

Rovusta's on Old Brompton Road, London

River Gardens CIDP in Fulham, London

CIDP in Egerton Place, London

These palms are totally unaffected by the two freezes in early January and mid February. Most of these probably saw about 25F last winter and about 48 hours below freezing, on two separate occasions. That Butia hasn't taken a single bit of damage by the looks of things. The last video was only just taken today by RH GROWS. Mad respect to him for uploading these. 

Hard to believe that these palms are located at the same latitude as Saskatoon in Canada and further north than Winnipeg. 

 

Nice! 

[ShadyDan]

I’ll throw my hat on for the most northern exotic collection in North America: 49.311 N. I have 6 different species of palms in the ground, and will be adding a few more recent purchases soon. Most of my palms are quite small still, but the ones I have planted *should* not require any winter protection in my climate. 
 

We have a good spot on Vancouver Island (although not as much as the UK) in having a little stretch of ocean between us and the main continent. Although it may not warm the continental air masses too much before reaching us, it dissipates the nasty cold outflow winds coming from the mainland valleys that can wreak havoc on exotic plants. 

[GottmitAlex]

Why is it the palmate/fan palms are more cold hardy than the plumose palms? 

 

[UK_Palms]

20 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Why is it the palmate/fan palms are more cold hardy than the plumose palms? 

 

Not sure, but I keep finding new palms in London every day. Check out these ones I found this evening...

[Ryland]

13 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Not sure, but I keep finding new palms in London every day. Check out these ones I found this evening...

@UK_Palms I hope soon you have more exciting things to do than explore London by street view!  In any case though here is another one for your collection, near a pub I like in Greenwhich.

[Ryland]

@ShadyDan that's a really nicely laid out collection.  Vancouver Island does have the most Britain-like climate in North America, though I expect you get all the downsides too - very limited heat, a bit wet and windy.  The palms grow, but quite slowly.  How cold do you get there during a typical winter?

I wish I had space for a Jubaea, but I put a Phoenix in my one central spot that's big enough.  Might add some photos on here in a month or so (I'm doing some work on the garden at the moment, so need to finish that off first).

[UK_Palms]

23 minutes ago, Ryland said:

@UK_Palms I hope soon you have more exciting things to do than explore London by street view!  In any case though here is another one for your collection, near a pub I like in Greenwhich.

Excellent washie, Ryland! It looks like a Robusta. Thanks for finding this one and posting it. The back yard appears to have another one too, as well as a CIDP.

Do you know of any others around London? I just can't believe how many washies can be found in east London now. There's loads of them and probably lots more out there still.

[ShadyDan]

9 hours ago, Ryland said:

@ShadyDan that's a really nicely laid out collection.  Vancouver Island does have the most Britain-like climate in North America, though I expect you get all the downsides too - very limited heat, a bit wet and windy.  The palms grow, but quite slowly.  How cold do you get there during a typical winter?

I wish I had space for a Jubaea, but I put a Phoenix in my one central spot that's big enough.  Might add some photos on here in a month or so (I'm doing some work on the garden at the moment, so need to finish that off first).

Thanks! Wish I had more room for more, but oh well. I think most people on this site have that issue lol.

We are similar to the south of England in climate, but there are some differences. We have a modified Mediterranean climate, so our summers are much sunnier and drier than the UK. Summer temperatures I think are fairly similar to the south of England. Our winters, however, tend to be quite a bit wetter. 20mm of rain average in July for us VS 200mm of rain for November, for example. Winter days are generally well above 0C. In fact, I did not have a single day this winter that failed to crack 0C. My absolute low the past 2 winters were both -5C, which is probably average or a little colder than average (we are in a La Nina right now). I am a stones throw away from the ocean which helps, but inland areas of Vancouver Island can get quite a bit colder during our cold snaps. I think in general the UK is a little warmer in the winter than Vancouver Island. I am on the SE side of the Island (rain shadow), but if you go the the West side (IE Tofino) it is VERY mild there.  Also extremely wet too, probably more similar to the SW of England in terms of rainfall and temperatures.

I have a (BxJ)xS in the ground that I am really excited for. It looks pretty dinky right now, so I want to have it look more impressive before I start sharing pictures lol. Phoenix are pretty big trees, are they hardy all the way up in Manchester? 

[Palmfarmer]

About most Southern I wonder how the Palmy potential of Falkland Islands would be. They do have Cordylines there so Trachies should work right? I doubt they got enough heat for CIDPs though

[ShadyDan]

2 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

About most Southern I wonder how the Palmy potential of Falkland Islands would be. They do have Cordylines there so Trachies should work right? I doubt they got enough heat for CIDPs though

I wouldn't see why not. I'm pretty sure Trachys can grow in Iceland, which is damn near close to the Arctic circle and a similar climate to the Falklands. I just looked up the Wikipedia article for the Falklands, I always thought they were way closer to Antarctica, but they are only at 51 degrees south. Super cold maritime climate, makes me appreciate my climate despite only being about 1 degree closer to the equator than the Falklands. 

There is a large CIDP in Tofino on Vancouver Island which is not known for its hot weather. It seems to be growing just fine there. 

[Palmfarmer]

2 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

I wouldn't see why not. I'm pretty sure Trachys can grow in Iceland, which is damn near close to the Arctic circle and a similar climate to the Falklands. I just looked up the Wikipedia article for the Falklands, I always thought they were way closer to Antarctica, but they are only at 51 degrees south. Super cold maritime climate, makes me appreciate my climate despite only being about 1 degree closer to the equator than the Falklands. 

There is a large CIDP in Tofino on Vancouver Island which is not known for its hot weather. It seems to be growing just fine there. 

They did plant Trachies in Iceland close to one of the hotsprings. Iceland is colder than the Falklands. Seen photos from the Falklands with cordylines planted and those are less hardy than Trachies. Problem might be that the falklands is so damn cloudy.

[ShadyDan]

9 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

They did plant Trachies in Iceland close to one of the hotsprings. Iceland is colder than the Falklands. Seen photos from the Falklands with cordylines planted and those are less hardy than Trachies. Problem might be that the falklands is so damn cloudy.

Yea I agree, it’s not absolute low temperatures that are a problem in places like Iceland or the Falklands. It’s the lack of any kind of summer heat and sunshine for a lot of plants. 

[Ryland]

@ShadyDan it sounds like you should be able to "get away with" a similar variety of palms to here with conditions like that.  Surely your Butia x Jubaea will be fine!

An interesting thing about the UK climate is that winters don't get much colder as you go further north (but summers do), so even Manchester very rarely sees temperatures below -5C.  The Phoenix will be fine here I think, since over the last ten years the coldest temperature has been -6C and most winters aren't even that cold (I have a personal weather station in the garden which recorded -2.7C as the absolute low of the winter just gone).  Phoenix canariensis will be unbothered by that - in fact mine was sitting outside in a pot through the -6 night a few years ago and had no damage.  If it had been in the ground for the infamous winter of 2010 though I would have needed to protect it (-11C recorded nearby, some days not exceeding 0C).  That might not happen again, but if it does it would be the rare event where I'd be willing to go out of my way to ensure the palms survive.

@UK_Palms  yes I know of a handful around London but certainly not as many as you've shared pictures of.  As you say, they are almost a common sight anymore - especially Trachycarpus, Phoenix, Washingtonia.  There's a nice, but still fairly small, Butia in the courtyard gardens of the Royal Geographical Society, but you can't see it from the street.  Of course Torquay has to take the cake for palms in the UK!  Or for botanical gardens, Tresco.  Have you heard of Inverewe Gardens in the northwest Highlands of Scotland?  They are growing many palms successfully at 57 or 58 degrees north - nothing very big though.

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:38 AM, matthedlund said:

Hey now! Seattle, WA here at 47 degrees N. I'll give those Europeans a run for their money. I'm located just a stone's throw from the sea and sit comfortably in a USDA zone 9a microclimate.

I've got quite a lot of fun stuff in ground. Strictly talking palms, I'm growing Jubaea, Butia, Trithrinax campestris and Brasiliensis, Butiagrus, Allagoptera arenaria, Arenga engleri, Rhapsis excelsa, Brahea edulis, Chameadorea microspadix and radicalis and Parajubaea TVT.

I've also got plenty of other exotics and a commendable container ranch.

Seattle is at best 8b. Used to live there. Dropped below 20 plenty of times, bottoming out at 12F years ago, and I lived on the very top of Beacon Hill, one of the best microclimates in the city. “Official” USDA zone maps indicate 9a doesn’t even come close to Seattle. 

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 8/2/2020 at 12:30 PM, UK_Palms said:

Victoria, Canada is at 48N and is supposedly considered a 'warm-summer Mediterranean' climate, yet I can't see any long term CIDP's growing there? Or any Washingtonia? Does anyone else know of any maybe? I know they have lots of Trachycarpus, but I can't see CIDP's or Washies. I still don't see how Victoria can be 'warm-summer Med' if they are a bit colder year-round than London and also experience more annual rainfall. I would hedge a bet that the London summers have been a LOT drier than Victoria's as well in recent years. 

I also thought they would have some CIDP's growing somewhere in Scandinavia, in the warmer regions at least, but I can't seem to find any at all. I'm guessing their winter lows are just a step too far for CIDP even. The same goes for Paris, France which is also at 48N. I saw quite a few CIDP's there but they were all situated in planting boxes that get wheeled inside each winter. I know Paris saw 8F (-13C) back in 2018 though saying that.

I think the lowest central London has seen since the year 2000 is about 22F (-5C). But central and eastern London have been frost-free for the past 2 winters. The lowest in east London last winter was 35F. I think London is starting to get an edge on Tresco now even due to obvious climate change here and since it has much hotter summers than Tresco, allowing quicker growth. The past 3 consecutive summers have reached 100F in London now and have been very dry, akin to a Med climate. I doubt Tresco has gone above 80F during that time. 

I was in London (51N) for a couple of hours last week and spotted at least several hundred CIDP's. I mean they are absolutely everywhere now. Almost every street has one. Often several. Most are recent plantings, but a lot of them were big specimens carrying flower inflorescence. Quite a few of them I would say are over 30 foot in height now. One of the pictures below shows 4 biggish CIDP's in one frame, including one down the road in the distance. At 51N, surely London is the furthest place from the equator with a large palm collection...? Correct me if wrong...

Fruiting Butia Odorata?

No idea what this thing is, growing close to a fruiting lemon tree...

 

Washingtonia Robusta's...

Dave Brown's Washintona Robusta in 2019, although that is about 15 miles outside of London I think...

Apart from Dave's Robusta, the biggest Washies around London seem to be Filifera though...

Jubaea Chilensis

Butia Odorata

Cycas Revoluta in London (picture taken in winter)...

At this rate of planting, and with continued growth, the London skyline will look very difficult in the coming decades, especially due to the CIDP and Washies...

In Seattle it’s mostly Trachycarpus, you can spot a Butia odorata, or Chamerops very occasionally; and even more rarely Jubaea. No Washingtonias anywhere I looked. There are some guys trying out some rare hybrids. But most palms that aren’t Trachys grow very slowly. So little heat and intense cloud cover much of the year slows stuff down a lot. I know of a Brahea armata growing on a property that has stayed no larger than maybe a 15-20 g pot size in the ground after a couple decades.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

Tresco Abbey Gardens.

[UK_Palms]

17 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Tresco Abbey Gardens.

London is further north than Tresco and has more palms and probably more potential these days, moving forward, due to the warmer summers and higher sunshine hours. For instance, there are no Washingtonia Filifera's on Tresco or in Cornwall, whereas there are quite a few big, impressive Filifera's in London now. And some Syagrus Romanzoffiana. The potential for palm growing is only just being realised in London...

 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

29 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

London is further north than Tresco and has more palms and probably more potential these days, moving forward, due to the warmer summers and higher sunshine hours. For instance, there are no Washingtonia Filifera's on Tresco or in Cornwall, whereas there are quite a few big, impressive Filifera's in London now. And some Syagrus Romanzoffiana. The potential for palm growing is only just being realised in London...

 

Yeah, but tresco has more tender and exotic plants, and I thought they didnt include really hardy plants.

[sipalms]

4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

whereas there are quite a few big, impressive Filifera's in London now. And some Syagrus Romanzoffiana.

Where are the Syagrus in London, do you have any pics?

[UK_Palms]

36 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Where are the Syagrus in London, do you have any pics?

The guy with one of the big Filifera's, Barry, also has a decent sized Queen in his Edmonton, north London garden, which I have not seen an update on for a while now. The same with his big Filifera. He doesn't post very often at all. I believe there is one regular Syagrus Romanzoffiana and one 'Santa Catarina' type in this photo, next to each other...

There is another Queen in a back yard in Fulham as well, I just need to hunt down a picture of it. I had a photo of it on my old laptop last year.

[UK_Palms]

5 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Yeah, but tresco has more tender and exotic plants, and I thought they didnt include really hardy plants.

I forgot Ventnor Botanic Garden as well, which is further north than Tresco. They can grow just about anything at Ventnor, which can be grown at Tresco, but are also obviously decades behind as the subtropical garden was only founded in 1970, compared to way back in 1890 for Tresco. I would definitely say that Ventnor has a further north exotic palm collection than Tresco though, since they have quite a lot of tender exotics there too. 

The Abbey Gardens on Tresco can definitely lay claim to having the biggest and best crownshaft palms in the UK though, with these outrageous self seeded NIkau's that are now flowering...

[sipalms]

23 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The guy with one of the big Filifera's, Barry, also has a decent sized Queen in his Edmonton, north London garden, which I have not seen an update on for a while now. The same with his big Filifera. He doesn't post very often at all. I believe there is one regular Syagrus Romanzoffiana and one 'Santa Catarina' type in this photo, next to each other...

There is another Queen in a back yard in Fulham as well, I just need to hunt down a picture of it. I had a photo of it on my old laptop last year.

The above photo is quite a few years old now. Widely believed that those queens are no longer.

As you know there's quite a bit of discussion about this on the EPS and no one has come up with evidence of long term (5+ years) in the UK. But I would happily be proved wrong as it would be great to see them surviving somewhere so unlikely as there.

[UK_Palms]

42 minutes ago, sipalms said:

The above photo is quite a few years old now. Widely believed that those queens are no longer.

As you know there's quite a bit of discussion about this on the EPS and no one has come up with evidence of long term (5+ years) in the UK. But I would happily be proved wrong as it would be great to see them surviving somewhere so unlikely as there.

I haven't seen an update on these Queens for about 18 months I think, which was the last time Barry posted an update on his big Filifera as well. That's because the guy doesn't post much at all, not because they are dead. Nobody has speculated on the EPS that they are dead. Hopefully he posts an update in the coming weeks/months. 

I don't know why you assume his Queens would just be dead now. They have survived there for a while to get to that size, coming through the BFTE in February 2018. Plus they will be bigger and hardier now, compared to how they looked 18 months ago. I suspect they took a fair bit of damage this winter just gone, but are still growing okay. I bet you they are still alive and kicking.