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trioderob

who here has the most northern exotic palm collection ?

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trioderob

so there are well know collectors and growers in southern Cali and Florida - but what about as we head north ?

now I am not talking about a guy in new york with one ultra cold tolerant species - i talking about a nice collection with dypisis, jub, bizzie, copernicia etc..........

I am also not talking about indoor collections

I am talking the farthest north palm nut. I am talking the killer micro climate to allow it. I am talking the money grit and determination to pull it off.

could that be you ?

Edited by trioderob

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trioderob

they say a photo is worth one million words

this is what I am talking about the start of the tundra line for exotic palm collections in the untied states - the place where the last dypsis lives and the last bizzie buds.

 

RMG0011-15_P.JPG

Edited by trioderob

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trioderob

if I am guessing it would have  be one of you in Oregon or north Europe.

central US is out - east coast gets freezes so its probably out too.

Europe seems prime - warm water currents

 

Edited by trioderob
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DoomsDave

We had a palm talker in Norway 100 miles south of the Arctic Circle. Northern Ireland is far up there, too.

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Pando

Coconuts in Barrow, Alaska   :mrlooney:

barrowpalmsk4ktugjhubng77r36d;dj.jpg

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The Steve

Here's a picture I took of some exotic palms in Hamburg.

IMG_7899.thumb.jpg.06b47725949a19405ad6a

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Ben in Norcal

It's undoubtedly Europe given the ocean currents.

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Josh-O

europe, no doubt

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Alcibiades

Channel Islands or Amsterdam City climate would be my guess for europe. I will move to the countryside next year to start my first real garden but without planting any palms. I`m even moving from 7a to 6b. :)

Personally i do not like most of the frost hardy palms. Bringing them indoors over the winter is a must over here. I had some Dypsis and a Bizzie outside this year from April until the beginning of October. Brought them in after the first freezes over night.

 

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Moose

 

The Richard Douglas garden, hands down!

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trioderob

where is the Dick Douglas garden ????

 

"a photo is worth one million words " - Trioderob

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Moose

Walnut Creek, California, east of San Francisco

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Ben in Norcal

Dick's garden is a few miles away.  It's a great cold hardy garden, but I'm not sure I'd call it an "exotic" garden - e.g. I don't think there are any dypsis, bizzie, copernicia, etc.  On the main it is super bullet-proof stuff that would survive well north of here.  Guess it all depends on your definition.

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Josh-O

where is the Dick Douglas garden ????

 

"a photo is worth one million words " - Trioderob

lets see a photo of the black stem!

:ttiwwp:

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Neil C

That joke just never gets old :floor:

 

Regards Neil

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Matt in OC

With the zone pushing, I'd think Jim in Los Altos of the ones I've seen here. 

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Josh-O

I also vote Jim :greenthumb:

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Ben in Norcal

Jim's would fit my definition too.  But - looking at that other thread with royals at like 40 degrees N in Spain etc., you'd think there's be possibilities even further north there.

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Moose

Dick's garden is a few miles away.  It's a great cold hardy garden, but I'm not sure I'd call it an "exotic" garden - e.g. I don't think there are any dypsis, bizzie, copernicia, etc.  On the main it is super bullet-proof stuff that would survive well north of here.  Guess it all depends on your definition.

 

Dick's Garden first came to mind reading the topic. Dick was a pioneer establishing a collection in a temperate climate. These many years later, we now know which palms are truly cold hardy because of Dick. I'm certain he tried many species that could not make it. Coming from Florida, he had to do a lot of experimentation because no body knew.

I agree, Jim defintely has a more exotic collection. Let's not forget Darold Petty, he also has a very nice collection of exotics.

Edited by Moose
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Matthew92

Yeah it depends on your definition, because for like a FL Panhandle 8b, you could go to the full length of planning a tropical palm garden to make it really bullet proof, including being able to withstand freezes approaching 10 degrees, which has happened more than once in the last 30-40 years or so- such that all it would boil down to is sabals, windmill, butia, saw palmetto, Chamaerops, needle, etc... Basically things that our friends in places like the mid-U.S. are growing. 

And then on on the other side of the coin, you would be a little more zone pushing with some 9a or even 9b palms because something like 65-70% of the time, we have more 9a type winters. 

Edited by Opal92

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Josh-O

Dick's garden is a few miles away.  It's a great cold hardy garden, but I'm not sure I'd call it an "exotic" garden - e.g. I don't think there are any dypsis, bizzie, copernicia, etc.  On the main it is super bullet-proof stuff that would survive well north of here.  Guess it all depends on your definition.

 

Dick's Garden first came to mind reading the topic. Dick was a pioneer establishing a collection in a temperate climate. These many years later, we now know which palms are truly cold hardy because of Dick. I'm certain he tried many species that could not make it. Coming from Florida, he had to do a lot of experimentation because no body knew.

I agree, Jim defintely has a more exotic collection. Let's not forget Darold Petty, he also has a very nice collection of exotics.

Moose, your right. How did we over look Darold's garden.

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CodyORB

I nominate the garden of Dr. John Rossi in, a bit south for this thread, Hastings FL. This absolutely doesn't first come to mind when thinking of "northern" although for a place that regularly drops to the 20's (9a) it's impressive to see Bottle's (interestingly, heated by a car engine during freezes!), Royal's, Archie's, Pritchardia's, Dypsis', Trithinax,  Cocos (juvenile), it just goes on...

Edited by CodyORB

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Darold Petty

My garden is  37.73940 degrees latitude.  I have approximately 25 or 30 species in the ground, I have not done an inventory for a long time, perhaps I should !!  :) 

 Dick's garden at 37.93019 is slightly higher latitude than mine, but we have very different microclimates.

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Chester B

I'm at 45.40762 - 19 species

Some of those gardens in Ireland I think take the cake.  That or Tresco in England.

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sipalms

Okay... I'm going to troll here... I would say the whole of the UK would take this prize. Apparently what is not just surviving but thriving there according to some (actually a) member on here is nothing short of amazing, we're talking Royals, pretty much 'anything short of coconuts'.

No, in all seriousness the UK does shine at 53N with some great zone pushing compared to continental climates like the US.

To switch to the other hemisphere, here in southern New Zealand the following can be found at 43S although the botanic gardens lacks some less-exotic palms like Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana and Syagrus Romanzoffiana that actually would grow okay there.

 

 

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tim_brissy_13
21 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Okay... I'm going to troll here... I would say the whole of the UK would take this prize. Apparently what is not just surviving but thriving there according to some (actually a) member on here is nothing short of amazing, we're talking Royals, pretty much 'anything short of coconuts'.

No, in all seriousness the UK does shine at 53N with some great zone pushing compared to continental climates like the US.

To switch to the other hemisphere, here in southern New Zealand the following can be found at 43S although the botanic gardens lacks some less-exotic palms like Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana and Syagrus Romanzoffiana that actually would grow okay there.

 

 

Not a chance that Roystonea grows anywhere in the UK. I’d love to see photos. 
 

in the Southern Hemisphere @Tassie_Troy1971 would have to be a contender. 

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sipalms
23 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I’d love to see photos. 

I would too... 

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GottmitAlex
7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

My garden is  37.73940 degrees latitude.  I have approximately 25 or 30 species in the ground, I have not done an inventory for a long time, perhaps I should !!  :) 

 Dick's garden at 37.93019 is slightly higher latitude than mine, but we have very different microclimates.

Hear, hear!!!!

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Darold Petty

I nominate Troy Donovan  Tassie_Troy1971.  His garden in the suburbs of Hobart is at 42 degrees south latitude.  His garden has many palms and they are ALL very well grown.  His garden has even been featured on Australian television.  :greenthumb: 

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matthedlund
On 10/30/2015 at 11:43 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

It's undoubtedly Europe given the ocean currents.

Hey now! Seattle, WA here at 47 degrees N. I'll give those Europeans a run for their money. I'm located just a stone's throw from the sea and sit comfortably in a USDA zone 9a microclimate.

I've got quite a lot of fun stuff in ground. Strictly talking palms, I'm growing Jubaea, Butia, Trithrinax campestris and Brasiliensis, Butiagrus, Allagoptera arenaria, Arenga engleri, Rhapsis excelsa, Brahea edulis, Chameadorea microspadix and radicalis and Parajubaea TVT.

I've also got plenty of other exotics and a commendable container ranch.

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Ben in Norcal
21 hours ago, matthedlund said:

Hey now! Seattle, WA here at 47 degrees N. I'll give those Europeans a run for their money. I'm located just a stone's throw from the sea and sit comfortably in a USDA zone 9a microclimate.

I've got quite a lot of fun stuff in ground. Strictly talking palms, I'm growing Jubaea, Butia, Trithrinax campestris and Brasiliensis, Butiagrus, Allagoptera arenaria, Arenga engleri, Rhapsis excelsa, Brahea edulis, Chameadorea microspadix and radicalis and Parajubaea TVT.

I've also got plenty of other exotics and a commendable container ranch.

Close, but no cigar! :D  Check out what's all growing in the Tresco Abbey Gardens, Isles of Scilly.  Pretty amazing at 50 degrees latitude!

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matthedlund
On 7/31/2020 at 9:30 AM, Ben in Norcal said:

Close, but no cigar! :D  Check out what's all growing in the Tresco Abbey Gardens, Isles of Scilly.  Pretty amazing at 50 degrees latitude!

Gah! You win. Although I'm willing to call it close, I'm at 47.5 degrees and they're at 49.5. That puts it at around 140 miles north of me. Closest thing I can counter with is Tofino, British Columbia, Canada. Similar microclimate to mine with a lot of tropicals in town.

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Ben in Norcal
2 hours ago, matthedlund said:

Gah! You win. Although I'm willing to call it close, I'm at 47.5 degrees and they're at 49.5. That puts it at around 140 miles north of me. Closest thing I can counter with is Tofino, British Columbia, Canada. Similar microclimate to mine with a lot of tropicals in town.

Very cool!  Yeah, this isn't even to speak of tropicals planted across the UK, above 50 degrees...London is in the south and already 51.5...

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Marco67

I understood that it was only possible to grow things like Phoenix Canariensis and Washingtonia in the southwestern part of Oregon near the border with California around 42.03.

That is comparable with Vigo in Galicie Western Spain(zone 10A). 

It is possible to grow Phoenix and Washingtonia palms on the English southcoast in places like Portsmouth which 50.57. 

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UK_Palms
18 hours ago, Marco67 said:

I understood that it was only possible to grow things like Phoenix Canariensis and Washingtonia in the southwestern part of Oregon near the border with California around 42.03.

That is comparable with Vigo in Galicie Western Spain(zone 10A). 

It is possible to grow Phoenix and Washingtonia palms on the English southcoast in places like Portsmouth which 50.57. 

There are some pretty large CIDP's and Washies at 51N in London and across southern England in general. One of the big Filifera's over here is at 52N I think. 

If I'm not mistaken, there are now also flowering CIDP's at 54N along the east coast, near Yorkshire. I'm not sure if they have actually set seed though. They don't get much summer heat at all there, unlike London and southern England.

This is one of the CIDP's in Scarborough at 54N. That may well be the furthest north flowering/established CIDP in the world? Or furthest from the equator even? Surely? I wonder what it will look like 10-15 years from now...

Scarborough-Phoenix-May-2020.jpg.07f15969ea8a34ff4d6fec01eb3f98ee.jpg

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Palmfarmer

For Americas Probably Brookings, Oregon. Western Canada is also really impressive, Victoria, Vancouver and the southern Gulf Islands. 

Edited by Palmfarmer

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UK_Palms
28 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

For Americas Probably Brookings, Oregon. Western Canada is also really impressive, Victoria, Vancouver and the southern Gulf Islands. 

Victoria, Canada is at 48N and is supposedly considered a 'warm-summer Mediterranean' climate, yet I can't see any long term CIDP's growing there? Or any Washingtonia? Does anyone else know of any maybe? I know they have lots of Trachycarpus, but I can't see CIDP's or Washies. I still don't see how Victoria can be 'warm-summer Med' if they are a bit colder year-round than London and also experience more annual rainfall. I would hedge a bet that the London summers have been a LOT drier than Victoria's as well in recent years. 

I also thought they would have some CIDP's growing somewhere in Scandinavia, in the warmer regions at least, but I can't seem to find any at all. I'm guessing their winter lows are just a step too far for CIDP even. The same goes for Paris, France which is also at 48N. I saw quite a few CIDP's there but they were all situated in planting boxes that get wheeled inside each winter. I know Paris saw 8F (-13C) back in 2018 though saying that.

I think the lowest central London has seen since the year 2000 is about 22F (-5C). But central and eastern London have been frost-free for the past 2 winters. The lowest in east London last winter was 35F. I think London is starting to get an edge on Tresco now even due to obvious climate change here and since it has much hotter summers than Tresco, allowing quicker growth. The past 3 consecutive summers have reached 100F in London now and have been very dry, akin to a Med climate. I doubt Tresco has gone above 80F during that time. 

I was in London (51N) for a couple of hours last week and spotted at least several hundred CIDP's. I mean they are absolutely everywhere now. Almost every street has one. Often several. Most are recent plantings, but a lot of them were big specimens carrying flower inflorescence. Quite a few of them I would say are over 30 foot in height now. One of the pictures below shows 4 biggish CIDP's in one frame, including one down the road in the distance. At 51N, surely London is the furthest place from the equator with a large palm collection...? Correct me if wrong...

videoblocks-palm-tree-at-the-crossroads-london_hzwnl2lbqz_thumbnail-full01.thumb.png.86950c871e3feeeac9c3b35fc3273161.png

DiePMerXkAEuFvy.thumb.jpg.f63039c5703848f3f5fd2de6b4bc2587.jpg

1749237074_ScreenShot2020-08-02at17_45_04.thumb.jpg.fb51edc5b0f88658fda11d87699ba60e.jpg

1007415532_ScreenShot2020-08-02at17_41_49.thumb.jpg.0a9c766ebc3a222d76bb9a07c54a4465.jpg

912060903_ScreenShot2020-08-02at18_23_18.thumb.jpg.2abe0fb3828cc092f69e13598a60533c.jpg

Fruiting Butia Odorata?

617597738_ScreenShot2020-08-02at18_25_09.thumb.jpg.100182284d62cac89e15c7c0cde1e1e9.jpg

No idea what this thing is, growing close to a fruiting lemon tree...

710940774_ScreenShot2020-08-02at18_24_24.thumb.jpg.28fb3094dfaed14886e6837aa468517f.jpg

Fulham-Palm-River-Gardens-w-Michael.jpg.c5ef0c0ac2d186e87376967d6947c2fa.jpg

EeP1_UTXoAAgIgq.jpg.785d53b4da10d9f2a3ce5fde1c86e444.jpg

 

116358243_604189743863451_8584294927609384901_n.jpg.d1c882c5ed7ea76bf232e9de51ac5fe7.jpg

phoenix-canariensis.thumb.jpg.4fa403c4fb6da58ebd9074d97215ad3b.jpg

1456271185_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_39_05.thumb.jpg.ccb2493240bb8a0734df223a2787b583.jpg

thumbnail_image10.jpg.0434b454b3ef4f67c9bd096d6e7c2097.jpg

1901115081_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_47_27.thumb.jpg.63d8af08e7b86694c8cd423a01afdd90.jpg

1877283601_ScreenShot2020-08-02at20_09_52.thumb.jpg.3fc7f1b18d84fb40c6986aba8d52cc76.jpg

DSCN0599.jpg.df5f604f5bf1cde4f1aca5623b3c1d6c.jpg

EVf4XdoWAAAxEK4.thumb.jpg.31f995038ba4159576e9063aa717ed64.jpg

Washingtonia Robusta's...

696352374_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_48_39.thumb.jpg.acb5dadbb87433b86860d75160a6cac5.jpg

Washingtonia-robustSt.-James-.jpg.beb41f050b86bba2460499b812cb416c.jpg

401868192_washie10.thumb.jpg.9e42a91738e5fc63a8b4a299ec05097e.jpg

1911328056_Washie13.jpg.ed5352b6d80d335104c47d20b741243c.jpg

1234258311_Washie14.jpg.58081c79131bcf0722a12a6b3be95531.jpg

415041254_Washie8.jpg.828eca2ea62dd60ec1987dc3098168fc.jpg

DSCN0505.JPG_4.jpg.4e5a00a4b003d750fd103d8838b8d70e.jpg

20190724_095623.jpg.4d51dd117945510d66ea882b30a38774.jpg

Dave Brown's Washintona Robusta in 2019, although that is about 15 miles outside of London I think...

3019-Washingtonia.jpg.0bd60abdd45ee754d2fab8c0c290f53a.jpg

Apart from Dave's Robusta, the biggest Washies around London seem to be Filifera though...

washie99.jpg.3127d2c0ebae6064a8895923c49746da.jpg

523573516_Filifera10.jpg.1c28551794903cf6db18b4f398adffcc.jpg

1110032569_Washie7.jpg.c366106c972cb6429f42845d9218ef77.jpg

washiethorpebay.jpg.66920bb1386d5186b061feb899b76ff6.jpg

Jubaea Chilensis

1882941956_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_27_21.thumb.jpg.39fc95cbefd9ed7be99494b7a8ca4767.jpg

image_549.jpg.7f6e89764ac02bc60cfb92313f341425.jpg

Butia Odorata

1859214848_ScreenShot2020-08-02at20_13_44.thumb.jpg.a22ca0f5b22143810475a27941bd286a.jpg

DSCN0500.jpg.36e2353fc9001482d33e3f57bdfe4d57.jpg

BhzYObRIUAALf9p.jpg.dbb7000c1639ca1d8d68b5a0adf7156c.jpg

Cycas Revoluta in London (picture taken in winter)...

thumbnail_image1_1.jpg.c82d79b57b15940643b96cb9102215be.jpg

At this rate of planting, and with continued growth, the London skyline will look very difficult in the coming decades, especially due to the CIDP and Washies...

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Marco67

Nice photo's. I think in Europe the northern limit for growing Canariensis/Washingtonia unprotected long term is the English southcoast and London. Perhaps the southwestern tip of Irland is another place. I am not sure Canariensis and Washingtonia survives unprotected long term farther north in England to be honest. Engeland has the advantage over countries like the Netherlands and Belgium that it is not directly connected to the continent.  I think on the continent you have to go to places in Brittany like Brest(at about 48 N) before you can grow them. 

Edited by Marco67
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UK_Palms
2 hours ago, Marco67 said:

Nice photo's. I think in Europe the northern limit for growing Canariensis/Washingtonia unprotected long term is the English southcoast and London. Perhaps the southwestern tip of Irland is another place. I am not sure Canariensis and Washingtonia survives unprotected long term farther north in England to be honest. Engeland has the advantage over countries like the Netherlands and Belgium that it is not directly connected to the continent.  I think on the continent you have to go to places in Brittany like Brest(at about 48 N) before you can grow them. 

I think globally the northern limit for growing CIDP's is 54N on the east coast of England, like the one I uploaded from Scarborough in my first post in this thread. There could however be a few decent sized specimens in western Scotland at 56-57N, but I'm not sure. I've heard it mentioned for years though. The west coast of Scotland is certainly mild enough in winter due to the jet stream, but they get hardly any summer heat, so probably don't grow well. When London hit 100F last Friday, the west coast of Scotland was like 60-65F. So world's apart climate-wise. In the southern hemisphere, I think the furthest south CIDP is at 46S, give or take a degree or two of latitude. 

Anywhere further north than London at 51N, I would not trust Washingtonia Robusta. Even in London they do not seem to grow as well as the Filifera does, at least in the long term (my observations). But there are still lots of big Robusta's taking off en-route to becoming 'skydusters'. But I think Filifera are just better at dealing with the winter cold, which helps them this far north. So I think Filifera and hybrids could maybe make it at 53N here, but not so much Robusta's. You won't really see a decent sized Robusta outside of London or the south coast. Although saying that, here are two Robusta's (and a Phoenix Theophrasti) at 52N, as well as a Filifera, so who really knows what the zone pushing limit is anymore over here... 

PJ2014_1.jpg.1a77a16826dc8561a34455409c9217de.jpg

The image is poor quality, and from 2016, but that is one serious 'skyduster' for latitude 52N... 

957011613_ScreenShot2020-08-03at02_06_47.jpg.bea4ecb0abdb0d045ea30a98550d2277.jpg

Possibly the furthest north Filifera of decent size...

DA8A66A4B6534C94AAFA7DBBBF62421E.jpg.4e4c933533195985827dfa8d831ad8c2.jpg

A few years from now, we'll probably be seeing biggish CIDP pop up around Manchester and Washies in the Wirral, near Liverpool. And I wouldn't even be shocked...

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